Zero.3871

My first feedback from wvw perspective after some duels: AA is too slow and has no real impact: the weapon aa cast was veeery slow and unrewarding, you can neither pressure ur opponent with that nor getting really much heal from it. aa rotation feels like 3 sec for whole rota, but the tooltip casttimes where like 1/2+1/2+3/4= 1,75 sec. maybe too much aftercast on the aa. aa projectiles misses the target very easily when the target wiggles a little in movement. 2nd spell: castspeed and dmg+ effects are fine for short cd spell. but the projectile very easily misses the target. should have a better hitrate on maxrange (better homing or hitbox on projectile) - the gorment spell has no real gain, so i usually just didnt used it. i dont see why i should anyway since gorment spells dmg is mediocre but cost hell of life. (hitting me harder then opponent) 3nd spell (leaps): the leap is helpful but in my tests vs a mesm, between all the blocks/invulns my opponent used it was hard to hit it. like 9 of 10 casts went into blocks because the animation is very clear and easy to counter. maybe the second leap should have an unblockable to have a real gain for reactivating this spell with higher hitchance on 2nd leap. imo spell would be better to use, if it wouldnt leap to a target but the leap target area would be like an aoe placed with the mouse (like new warrior staff 2 leap) 4th spell: way too long casttime. i lietrally eat the whole spike of my opponent while casting it. and the dmg+ impact ist mediocre. and the gorment reactivation skill just is the same with a little chill on it. why spend 2k life for it? 5th spell: nice idea with the fear on recast, but its like i cast this spell and have to wait like 1 secs before it reaches my opponent and then to recast it. in the meantime i cannot really cast another spell because casttimes on other spells are to long so i would miss my timewindow for recast. so in the end i am stuck for like 2 sec in that spell feels not that great. overall sword has potential and a cool design but feels unrewarding by the dmg numbers and slow in cast.

idk this whole game has so many game braeking bugs, its demotivating to play it. literally every story instantwhen i played it was at some point buged. anet has to improve a lot here. realesing an addon that is nearly unplayable because of that kitten...

you can complain about perma aura by ele, so you get stunned, chilled everytime you hit that class (while projectiles literally useless against them) that leaves no counterplay or perma invis stacking thiefes by using smoke + finisher that leaves no counterplay or perma invuln,block chaining mesmers that leaves no counterplay or. 3000 range one shot pewpew by ranger in under 1 sec. or berserker warri hitting you with 15k on like every skill in berserk form i mean i have seen so many revs, guards, necros, rangers, mesmer,... [add here any class] that get oneshot by full power builds in under 1 sec by revs, guards, necros, rangers, mesmer,... [add here any class]. or whatever. There are million things you could complain about but the problem is neither cele nor balancing. in the end its just a rock-paper-scissor problem. you cant beat everything on 1 build, cause game is not balanced around 1v1, but groupfights. if you have problems with willy and harb its your playstyle, class chose or skill thats wrong/lacking. play DE or SB and you wont have any problems with those 2 classes or accept that you have to be better than your opponent. in the same way e.g. harbs have to be better then the DE to win since harb is countered by DE.

harb is heavily countert by projectile hate. especially elementalists can cast perma reflect by magnetic aura and other effects. that way a harb can nearly never hit you. your blocks and invulns complete the set. as ele you should never die to a harb. in general harb get countered by same things necros get countered: mobility + cc + range. and especially burst.

as i said: "until ult runs out". harb is a heavily projectile related class. you can ez deny the most of its dmg by using reflects, invis, blocks, etc. just getting hit by the ult should not kill you. even when the ult hits you: burning+poison+bleeding+torment are the only condis you get by it that continously dmg you. on cele build with 25 stacks of might it should be around 700 condi dmg/s, all that condis together. i mean even with 12k hp the ult alone needs more then 10 seconds to kill you. if you cant use condi cleanses its not a balance issue. even 2 stacks of burning by a full condi build already ticking higher dmg.

i always wonder why people dont seem to know the tons of counterplay. i mean you just need a reflect, block, dodge or just move out of harbs range until the ult runs out. every class can easily do that.

cant agree with OP. 1. cele is a hybrid playstyle that is meant to create sustained fights . obviously, everyone that is aiming for 1 shotting an cheesing opponents, will be somewhat frustrated since cele is not easy 1 shottable, though it still is possible. 2. claiming it is IN GENERAL unfun is wrong, since OP can only speak for himself. 3. claiming it can easily 1vX while the x also can play celestial makes no sense at all. 4. and in fact cele has not more power then only power builds, and not more condi then only condi builds. even on e.g. full power builds you can put in enough concentration and boon duration buffs with runes and more, that you can achieve high boon uptimes. dont see why full power builds wouldnt have access to boons like cele. 5. there are enough builds that are at least equally strong as cele , like builds that rely on high uptime of e.g. invis, blocks, invulns. that way e.g. builds on mesmer, thief,... can easily outsustain several players while being capable of 1 shotting. so this builds are at least as viable as cele builds are. OP should stop searching for excuses for lack of success at the game. if you are a very good player it doesnt matter what builds people play, you will easily win 99,9% of your fights by pure skill diff. if you cant, u are just not good enough.

not really its just a power shift. before it was good for cleaving(whats important since harb cant really stomp in fights with more then 1 opponent). less for dmg vs living targets that are moving. now its a bit better vs moving targets and worse for cleaving and cced targets. so it depends on situation if its better or worse.

@Double Tap since i saw you taking care for some bug fixes. is there any chance for an info on that bug?

this seems like a ranger/engi propaganda. every roaming list that doesnt contains ranger/engi builds cant be serious. plz mr. sahne, make better researches 🧐 i am awaiting your reports tomorrow. 😏

yeah ele is not that weak people consistently claiming, but you should consider that the mota had specific rules, 1 tank amulet stats was banned and every spec was just allowed 1 time per team. those changes can effect team combs heavily.

i mean when i remember some years ago you clicked something in shop and it loaded instantly. right now its sooooo laggy in trading post and getting worse month by month. its really unfun when you have to wait 3-5 seconds after every click in shop...sometimes also lagging out completely so i need to close and open it again. idk, plz fix this shop anet...

as the title says. weakening shroud on critical hits doesnt apply the weaknes on any necro spec.

to get a legy you need to play all ingame stuff. thats the idea for legys. there are also a lot of people playing pve to get those, even is they dont want to. i think u just need to get used to it.

hmm,l i would say there are effects like food/utility that gives extra stats in relation to existing stats. so having flat 15% is less valuable then having 225 ferocity. could be the idea here

Death Perception: This trait now gives 10% critical chance, regardless of whether the necromancer is in shroud. This trait now increases critical damage by 15% instead of increasing ferocity while in shroud. i would guess since they precisely note the 10% crit chance regardless of shroud in 1st sentence, lead to idea that the 15% crit dmg are just inside shroud. but we will see at tuesday^^

nah, current ferocity gives you 20% crit dmg. and new one gives 15%. the math is in your 2nd example pultiplies the crit dmg as well with 15%. but i guess its just additive there. so overall 2557 power x (2,29 + 0,15)=2,44 crit multiplier.

fun fact: harb ult elixier is already 90 sec cd... many people are maybe confused since cd get reduced to 75 sec when traited. but basic cd still is 90 sec.

men i remembered an old video where some ranger oneshoted me (its over 3 years old) you see me on round about 60-70% hp on full marauder gear and 55% shroud. should be around 15-19 k hp and 10 k llifeforce (in sum 25-29 k hp). in theory necro shroud would reduce showed dmg by 50%. but the 33k dmg hit (that should get halfed to 16.5 k dmg) killed me instantly. at least somehow the hit that kicks you out of shroud doesnt reduce incoming dmg. idk if it blocks some dmg or just calculate the full dmg after shroud exit to your hp bar. the hit was just to hard xD You can see the oneshot vs me at 4:33 in video. maybe it helps you to get an answer 🙂

1. first of all you make so many false accusations that is a bunch of work to show someone like you where you are wrong.since your only goal is to bring in biased feedback ignoring everything other classes do as well. YOU were the one claiming harbinger has tons of stuff no one else has. i showed you that every class has the same tools. 2. why for gods sake you should use THAT rune?but yeah, when building just for having high HP you can take it and even get on mesmer close to 30 k hp...still nuts. because also here, balancing is not about class A has mechanic Y. its about full potential of classes. sustain is the sum of all dmg mitigation mechanics a class has. that includes invis, blocks, invulns, dodges as well. where other classes can sneak out of the dmg by going invis or invul, necro has to eat it. so having more hp on classes that doenst have the juicy stuff like block, invis, invul, infinite dodges is fair. 3. the built you mentioned is using no healing power. that means even on max stack (you barely get) its in best case 325 regen /s by blight (that takes away 37,5% max hp as tradeoff). thats far away from being great regeneration. in practive you are running maybe 15 stacks for 195 regen. so you want to tell me you cant focus down a harbinger because of 195 regen. odd... 4. they move slowlier then most classes in game. if necro as slowest class in game (that doesnt have the utility do come out of invis) is still to fast and surprising for you maybe the issue is you. 5. i didnt attacked you, i just said you should bring in facts and not fantasy.

1. wrong accusation: you claimed: shroud has dmg reduction. you already realised its not SHROUD, its a trait. look at you thread title. there is the false accusation. 2. wrong accusation - 35k hp: harbinger doenst have 35k health even if you take max vitality amulett, vitality rune and every trait (includes soul reaping and harbinger traitline) that gives you vitality. 3. wrong accusation - free unremvoal regen: regen comes from taking blood magic on hit effect (can be blocked, dodges, countered by invis,...) + regeneration buff ( can be removed by every class) + blight heal (need to get stacked and only scales with stack number that makes harbinger vulnerable to birst attacks) -> everything has counter or trade off btw. when i try to built a build on harb that is including above mentioned traitlines i need to pick at least 4 traitlines with dm, bm, sr and harbinger (thats impossible) 4. wrong accusation - mobility like thief: moblity-spells on harbinger - shroud 3: 600 range on 10 sec cd --> offers: 60 range/second - shroud 4: 600 range on 18 sec cd --> offers 33,3 range/second - flesh worm 1200 range on 40 sec cd --> offers 30 range/second - spectral walk unrealiable since no mobilityon first activation: you need to travel some distance first before reactivating flesh worm and spectral walk show your enemies WHERE you will port to, ez counterplay for everyone with 1 braincell. So overall extra moblity on harbinger in addition to normal movement is round about 120 range per second. Thief mobility as far as i see includes following spells for specter (build specter- condi scepter by meta battle: - well of gloom 600 range on 20 sec cd --> offers: 30 range/ second - well of bounty 600 range on 20 sec cd --> offers: 30 range/ second - shadowfall 600 range on 75 sec cd --> offers 8 range/second - infiltrators strike 900/1200 range on 3/2 inititaive --> even if just used 1 time in 20 seconds its 2100 range in 20 seconds offers another 105 range/second So overall extra moblity on specter in addition to normal movement is round about 170 range per second. nearly 40% higher then harbs If you watch daredevil (Dagger/pistol by Metabattle): - swipe 600 range on 25 sec cd --> offers: 24 range/second - shadow shot (if used 1 time in 20 seconds) 900 range on 20 sec cd --> offers: 45 range/second - infiltrators arrow (if used 1 time in 20 seconds) 900 range on 20 sec cd --> offers: 45 range/second - shadow step 2x1200 range on 50 sec cd --> offers: 48 range/second So overall extra moblity on daredevil in addition to normal movement is round about 160 range per second. nearly 30% higher then harbs. and i calculated usage number of mobility spells on thief weapons really conservative with 1 per 20 seconds... 5. wrong accusation - pulsing boons are unique to harbinger: - rev glint is pulsing 5 boons (fury, might, swiftness, protection, regenration) - rev dwarf has pulsing stability - warrior stances have pulsing stability, resistance, swiftness - guardian symbols are pulsing boons (depending on field) - thief well of bounts is pulsing boons - mesmer PU or time warp is pulsing boons - ranger can get protection by dodging on companions defence (also grants huge uptime) -scrappers with kynetic accelartor have huge quickness uptime as well -........ nearly every class has access to different boon pulsing effects, thats not unique to harb/necro 6. wrong accusation - no other class attacking with condis and gaining protection and toughness out of it. Since the whole idea behind carapace is gaining defence stats from applying condis and its unique to necro (since every class has unique effects), its just the logical consequenz that this is happening BUT: carapace stacks need to get stacked before giving those extra stats SO: if you fullfill that condition you gain extra defense. thats like: - thief flickering shadows: reduced strike dmg by 33% when revealed - warrior balanced stance deny all crits when activated (also dmg reducing effect) - rev vengeful hammers and dwarf ult have huge dmg reductions - ele stone heart is denying crits as well (huge dmg reduction -.... Post already is getting to long. Summary: I am not saying every skill/trait above is commonly used. i just say: depending on what class and build you play you can include on every class pulsing boons, dmg reduction effects. The "high" mobility is fake news, as well as dmg reduction by shroud itself. If you watch to: What harbingers doenst have... if you get pressured as ele, thief, warrior, guardian, engi, rev, mesmer, ranger: you can rotate over several blocks, invis, invulns, dodge spells ALL THE NECROS DOENST HAVE. those defense mechanics works with the same effectivity vs 1 enemy, like vs 5 enemies. those are scaling defense mechanics. means: 10k dmg to a block deny 10k dmg, -> 100k dmg to a block deny 100k dmg harbinger doesnt have those scaling defense mechanics. it has some regen (not more like every ele, ranger, engi, whatever class has...) it has some weakness (like nearly every class), it has some boons (when played harbinger) as all other classes has as well. there is no difference. but necro active defense was shroud. if you hit shroud with 10k dmg it blocks 10k dmg -> if you hit with 100k dmg, necro dead...NO scaling. and harbinger doesnt even have that shroud. if you focus dmg it is has the least utility to stay alive (most vulnerable class). even its weaknis application is primarily focused on 1 target and cant get apllyed to several targets except you just stack inf ront of the necro (but in that scenraio you deserve to die, because stacking is stupid af) and again, before everyone starts crying. IMO there IS absolutely a requirement for adjustments. not only on harbinger. tons of it... BUT for gods sake, can people PLZ START EITHER discussing based on FACTS with ARGUMENTS and bringing useful solutions? instead of crying always with fake news and criticising the wrong things? those mentality doesnt helps anyone. its like you want to stop climate change on world by opening your FRIDGE too cool down the earth, thats just stupid ... OR JUST STOP TALKING when you havent the experience to really understand class balance and also doesnt have the time to learn about it or just want to rant.

tbh whats wrong with you? xD you are referring to a trait that offers protection(a boon every class has access to) and still complaining about shroud dmg reduction. ur completely nonsense. i mean wtf? how delusional has this community become? at least try to stay on facts and not false accusations.

OMG plz add that AAAAND a trap like e.g. needle-trap. if someone with beetle runs over it he got dismounted and downstated like after an accident. LUL. woould be worth for the memes xD. i like that.

i never talked about 1v2. i talkes about greater fights like 5v5 or 2v2. when 2 enemies can focus you with dmg harb sustain is low. when you fight 2v2 while a opponent is support. yu can weakness the 1 dmg dealer and having good sustain even in 2v2 fights. thats my point here.

nice vid by hollts. big dmg numbers. but harbinger is designed to have big dmg numbers since this class SHOULD burst. the opposite question is: is the tradeoff for the burst dmg it got existent? means, is its defensive weak enough for that dmg as compensation? imo defense of harb is good vs 1 enemy, and already really weak vs several targets, except, the opponents playing 1 support + 1 dmg dealer, cause the support cant pressure you. if you have 2 dmg dealing classes vs you, they can easy burst you down on harb. so wouldnt it be better to discuss how harbinger can be fair in sustain? in 1v1 situations where harb is really trong and also in e.g. 5v5 scenarios where its sustain is getting weaker right now? how can we balance sustain?