Vilin.8056

Veteran Casual Flippers? I'm not sure I've seen any argument in this whole argument so far that indicates the desperation a; raider will go to to prove a point. Exactly how many veteran casual flippers do you think there are and why would they be using something like efficiency instead of the sites made for flipping like GW2tp.com or lunchbox or one of the others. GW2efficiency is great for altoholics and people who craft legendaries. I'm pretty sure most casuals aren't crafting all that many legendaries and so they just use the wiki. Edit: More to the point, using AP is pointless since lots of veterans have alt accounts, including veterans who raid in my guild. They simply use them for log in rewards and extra storage. Since they're only logging in, they're going to have very low AP even though they'd count in statistics. Which means 90% of my accounts don't have any T2 fractals at all, but my main account has finished every fractal. My wife too. That's 90% of both of our accounts or 9 out of 10, since those other accounts simply feed our main account. That would easily explain why so many people on gw2efficiency are under 1000 AP. And of course some just stopped playing as well.Another who threw toxic comments toward Raider community without ever looking at statistics. Only 30% in GW2Efficiency possess the Master Crafter title:https://gw2efficiency.com/account/unlock-statistics?filter.key=titles&filter.search=master%20crafter Even more relative stats for GW2Efficiency member's capability to craft Gen 2 Legendary:https://gw2efficiency.com/account/unlock-statistics?filter.search=grandmasterOnly 55% ever reached lv. 500 WeaponsmithOnly 39% ever reached Lv 500 ArtificerOnly 36% ever reached Lv 500 HuntsmanSo much for crafting legendary. Additionally:Only 14% ever reached lvl 500 ChefThis proves the site members to be indisputably casual.

And TP barons are generally very hardcore, which is not surprising - if you play the market only casually, you most often than not are not only not earning much, but in a great danger of actually losing gold. Anyone that invests time and effort in learning the market to the point where they can reliably profit from it is not a casual player.Again, like dungeons experiences, you're placing a very narrowminded personal impressions over the grand scale of statistics.With a majority of 5k+ AP, these links above has clearly proven their participation and capability in contents over the years, when we are dividing the player base according to skill level and content difficulties, how much they study over the TP is completely irrelevant.And btw, only 0.6% has the "I'm Rich You Know" Title, so even the TP Barons you describe are the extreme minority. I know many casuals don't care much about 3rd party sites, but as diverted as the casual community gets, it doesn't mean this site does not attract many casuals who has been long with the game, the statistics clearly shows that.

Ahem. Those fractal achievements were added later on (old ones were removed) and you had to replay all fractals of the relevant difficulties. I run Fractal T4s, I run Fractal CMs, I run Raids, and I don't have Fractal Adept or Fractal Expert because I don't really care to go back and replay every single fractal level I'm missing.That is the purpose, since most frequent T4 runners are already part of that minority 15.4% Nightmare CM crowd, the Initiative/Expert stats represents the rest who frequent Fractals casually and would have already fulfilled these achievements over the course of the year(s). Which also proves to be a minority. So since the majority of these members do not frequent ANY instanced contents, they farm open map for the majority of their gold is it?Nope.Only 51% has ever slain the Legendary Mordrem Demolisher in the Silverwaste in last 7 years:https://gw2efficiency.com/account/unlock-statistics?filter.key=titles&filter.search=demo Again, veteran casual flipper site. *BTW, thanks for the effort, I didn't know how to operate that site until now

Um, excuse me but no. What did I just read. Take a look at this screenshot from the official leaderboardsSo 80% of this game's accounts (not gw2efficiency) have lower than about 1150 AP. Which is the mid point between those two, the exact number is not known with my limited friend/guild list but if more people check theirs we might find the correct answer. Still 80% of ACCOUNTS have under 1147 AP (which is the number a player at 70% has) As for gw2efficiency, you can see here:the majority of accounts (62%) have the Respected Achiever title, which is awarded at 5k AP. Unfortunately there is no way to tell how many gw2efficiency users are between 1150 and 5000, but I'd hazard a guess that the majority of gw2efficiency accounts is somewhere in that bracket and very few are under it. Edit: because I've used the "70% of accounts have under 600 AP" before, I was talking about the entire game, not gw2efficiency, if the most dedicated (note the word) players had under 1k AP then the game would be dead at this point. Edit2: as for the argument of which type of player has a gw2efficiency account, those that play as much of this game as possible. As a matter of fact, 566 gw2efficiency accounts have the Furious Achiever title which is awarded at 40k AP. There are 185 accounts in NA at 40k+ and 488 in EU, 673 total, or 84% of those above 40k AP have a gw2efficiency account. Which means that according to official stat, likely 70% of player base has not passed Zhaitan story and less than 20% has even passed any episode in expansion or Living Story based on their cumulative AP. Here's a relative GW2Efficiency stat outside of raid:Only 23.8% has unlocked Fractal Initiate (fractal lv 1-25):https://gw2efficiency.com/account/unlock-statistics?filter.search=Fractal%20initiate&filter.category=30Only 11.0% has unlocked Fractal Expert (fractal lv 51-75):https://gw2efficiency.com/account/unlock-statistics?filter.category=148 Hardly even moderately represent the hardcore community, and guess where do the majority of their gold came from if members of that site hardly do fractals?

Well it's a very good sample, at least when it comes to activity. gw2efficiency accounts on average have 2100 hours of playtime. While the global average (official) is about 95 hours, or at least it was in August 2018, but I doubt much changed since then. The difference is overwhelming. So, although gw2efficiency accounts are "only" 314688 accounts, which is a small number of accounts compared to the total, they do contain about 50% of this game's global actual playtime.Meaning where that "sample" spends their time, is where the game does. Ok .... and how many did wing 5/6/7 ?PvE 60% ? Raid 4% ? Well let's have a look at the Raid completion rates, although using only Wing 5/6/7 when the release cadence was already so abysmal isn't a very good idea. So looking at the earlier Raids, when the cadence was more stable is better: I will use the same system as the living world episodes, first boss and last boss, to compete with first instance and last instance.Heart of Thorns: 91% / 65%Spirit Vale: 30% / 21%Salvation Pass: 20% / 18%Stronghold of the Faithful: 26% / 15%Considering only 65% finished HOT, those Raid kill numbers aren't half bad, especially for the first boss. The Head of the Snake: 57% / 49%Bastion of the Penitent: 25% / 16%Compared to the episode it was released with, Bastion numbers are quite good, half of those that started the episode, killed the first boss. Daybreak: 61% / 52%Hall of Chains: 11% / 8%This was indeed a tough one. A Star to Guide Us: 50% / 44%Mythright Gambit: 11% / 7%I think we can see here that the living world lost more players than Raids did, at this point. War Eternal: 49% / 46%The Key of Ahdashim: 10% / 7%Oddly enough War Eternal didn't experience the same losses over time, but neither did Wing 7, with very similar results, maybe the playerbase finally stabilized at that point. At least until the Icebrood Saga started Well there you have it. HOT Raids had a vastly superior popularity compared to POF Raids. HOT raid bosses were between 1/3rd and 1/4th of those that finished the respective episodes. POF Raids were closer to 1/5th - 1/6th. I assume you took these stats from Guild Wars 2 efficiency. My guess is raiders are more likely to list there than more casual players. A lot of people I've talked to don't even know about the site. Let's say, and I'm just picking numbers out of the air, that 20% of the playerbase has a GW2 efficiency account. It would likely be 20% of the most dedicated players. The question then becomes how much of the population that hasn't registered with efficiency have completed raid wings. I'm guessing that would skew your entire calculation.Quite the opposite, the site is mostly aimed for veteran casuals who has a need to calculate account worth, mats value/hour analysis(for open map farming), TP flipping, botting assistant, and upcoming progress for crafting a full set of ascended equipment's for their characters. The lower raid statistic proves the discrepancy in real world scenarios. Since hardcore contents usually reward raw gold and free ascended gears of choice, most players who frequent hardcore contents don't usually find these calculations necessary, and is more interested in performance statistics from other sources. Hardocore flippers are on there. People who make legendaries are on there. Because it's helpful. In fact, most casuals don't come to forums, or reddit or scour the internet for sites, they just sort of log in and play. There are absolutely going to be harder core people on GW 2 efficiency because they spend more time in communities and would have heard of it. Yet TP flipping is a casual activity, it does not involve the playing skill level of a player.Neither does analyzing craft cost of a legendary weapon require registering an account as it is an one time affair. This site is mostly useful for players who generate income from materials, therefore find the calculation helpful, instead of raw gold from hardcore contents. TP flipping is absolutely not casual. It requires an investment in time and money that casual farming doesn't. Most casual players don't flip. Those who flip tend to be very very invested in that activity. They form entire guilds for it. HUGE difference between that and a casual farmer. Wrong, most investment of time involved in TP flipping does not require player log-ins, and since TP flipping does not require a large amount of gold to begin with, any player who have a moderate amount of gold can immidiately be involved in the activity.And most importantly, it does not require player skill to warrant it as a hardcore activity. You can believe anything you want. Everyone reading this can decide for themselves if they think more casual players are on GW 2 efficiency or more hard core players. Here's a fact that does not require believing to be true: 70% of registered accounts in Gw2Efficiency are below 1k AP. You are free to believe these are also hardcore players, but clearly for everyone else this suggest otherwise. Well, if you want to put it that way, then there are so few hard core players in this game that Anet shouldn't even bother catering to them at all. Seems to me, the most casual players don't research outside the game and none of those guys are on efficiency. Also sounds like a lot of alt accounts there to feed mystic coins to people to make legendries. I have ten accounts on efficiency but only one ofthem has a lot of achievement points. The rest of them are feeder accounts. So it would still be the hardest core people with multiple accounts. But you know, if 5% of the population is hard core, they shouldn't be demanding new hard core content.You're picking weapons from all over the place. Since when does a casual oriented MMO economic website represent the population of the hardcore community? In your logic, if 70% of the player base do not even play past 700 AP, Anet don't even need Living Story content at all as it only catering less than 1/3 of the population, and simply only need to stay core Tyria with trading post features to maintain the casual playerbase. Neither represent a valid statement.

Well it's a very good sample, at least when it comes to activity. gw2efficiency accounts on average have 2100 hours of playtime. While the global average (official) is about 95 hours, or at least it was in August 2018, but I doubt much changed since then. The difference is overwhelming. So, although gw2efficiency accounts are "only" 314688 accounts, which is a small number of accounts compared to the total, they do contain about 50% of this game's global actual playtime.Meaning where that "sample" spends their time, is where the game does. Ok .... and how many did wing 5/6/7 ?PvE 60% ? Raid 4% ? Well let's have a look at the Raid completion rates, although using only Wing 5/6/7 when the release cadence was already so abysmal isn't a very good idea. So looking at the earlier Raids, when the cadence was more stable is better: I will use the same system as the living world episodes, first boss and last boss, to compete with first instance and last instance.Heart of Thorns: 91% / 65%Spirit Vale: 30% / 21%Salvation Pass: 20% / 18%Stronghold of the Faithful: 26% / 15%Considering only 65% finished HOT, those Raid kill numbers aren't half bad, especially for the first boss. The Head of the Snake: 57% / 49%Bastion of the Penitent: 25% / 16%Compared to the episode it was released with, Bastion numbers are quite good, half of those that started the episode, killed the first boss. Daybreak: 61% / 52%Hall of Chains: 11% / 8%This was indeed a tough one. A Star to Guide Us: 50% / 44%Mythright Gambit: 11% / 7%I think we can see here that the living world lost more players than Raids did, at this point. War Eternal: 49% / 46%The Key of Ahdashim: 10% / 7%Oddly enough War Eternal didn't experience the same losses over time, but neither did Wing 7, with very similar results, maybe the playerbase finally stabilized at that point. At least until the Icebrood Saga started Well there you have it. HOT Raids had a vastly superior popularity compared to POF Raids. HOT raid bosses were between 1/3rd and 1/4th of those that finished the respective episodes. POF Raids were closer to 1/5th - 1/6th. I assume you took these stats from Guild Wars 2 efficiency. My guess is raiders are more likely to list there than more casual players. A lot of people I've talked to don't even know about the site. Let's say, and I'm just picking numbers out of the air, that 20% of the playerbase has a GW2 efficiency account. It would likely be 20% of the most dedicated players. The question then becomes how much of the population that hasn't registered with efficiency have completed raid wings. I'm guessing that would skew your entire calculation.Quite the opposite, the site is mostly aimed for veteran casuals who has a need to calculate account worth, mats value/hour analysis(for open map farming), TP flipping, botting assistant, and upcoming progress for crafting a full set of ascended equipment's for their characters. The lower raid statistic proves the discrepancy in real world scenarios. Since hardcore contents usually reward raw gold and free ascended gears of choice, most players who frequent hardcore contents don't usually find these calculations necessary, and is more interested in performance statistics from other sources. Hardocore flippers are on there. People who make legendaries are on there. Because it's helpful. In fact, most casuals don't come to forums, or reddit or scour the internet for sites, they just sort of log in and play. There are absolutely going to be harder core people on GW 2 efficiency because they spend more time in communities and would have heard of it. Yet TP flipping is a casual activity, it does not involve the playing skill level of a player.Neither does analyzing craft cost of a legendary weapon require registering an account as it is an one time affair. This site is mostly useful for players who generate income from materials, therefore find the calculation helpful, instead of raw gold from hardcore contents. TP flipping is absolutely not casual. It requires an investment in time and money that casual farming doesn't. Most casual players don't flip. Those who flip tend to be very very invested in that activity. They form entire guilds for it. HUGE difference between that and a casual farmer. Wrong, most investment of time involved in TP flipping does not require player log-ins, and since TP flipping does not require a large amount of gold to begin with, any player who have a moderate amount of gold can immidiately be involved in the activity.And most importantly, it does not require player skill to warrant it as a hardcore activity. You can believe anything you want. Everyone reading this can decide for themselves if they think more casual players are on GW 2 efficiency or more hard core players. Here's a fact that does not require believing to be true: 70% of registered accounts in Gw2Efficiency are below 1k AP. You are free to believe these are also hardcore players, but clearly for everyone else this suggest otherwise.

Well it's a very good sample, at least when it comes to activity. gw2efficiency accounts on average have 2100 hours of playtime. While the global average (official) is about 95 hours, or at least it was in August 2018, but I doubt much changed since then. The difference is overwhelming. So, although gw2efficiency accounts are "only" 314688 accounts, which is a small number of accounts compared to the total, they do contain about 50% of this game's global actual playtime.Meaning where that "sample" spends their time, is where the game does. Ok .... and how many did wing 5/6/7 ?PvE 60% ? Raid 4% ? Well let's have a look at the Raid completion rates, although using only Wing 5/6/7 when the release cadence was already so abysmal isn't a very good idea. So looking at the earlier Raids, when the cadence was more stable is better: I will use the same system as the living world episodes, first boss and last boss, to compete with first instance and last instance.Heart of Thorns: 91% / 65%Spirit Vale: 30% / 21%Salvation Pass: 20% / 18%Stronghold of the Faithful: 26% / 15%Considering only 65% finished HOT, those Raid kill numbers aren't half bad, especially for the first boss. The Head of the Snake: 57% / 49%Bastion of the Penitent: 25% / 16%Compared to the episode it was released with, Bastion numbers are quite good, half of those that started the episode, killed the first boss. Daybreak: 61% / 52%Hall of Chains: 11% / 8%This was indeed a tough one. A Star to Guide Us: 50% / 44%Mythright Gambit: 11% / 7%I think we can see here that the living world lost more players than Raids did, at this point. War Eternal: 49% / 46%The Key of Ahdashim: 10% / 7%Oddly enough War Eternal didn't experience the same losses over time, but neither did Wing 7, with very similar results, maybe the playerbase finally stabilized at that point. At least until the Icebrood Saga started Well there you have it. HOT Raids had a vastly superior popularity compared to POF Raids. HOT raid bosses were between 1/3rd and 1/4th of those that finished the respective episodes. POF Raids were closer to 1/5th - 1/6th. I assume you took these stats from Guild Wars 2 efficiency. My guess is raiders are more likely to list there than more casual players. A lot of people I've talked to don't even know about the site. Let's say, and I'm just picking numbers out of the air, that 20% of the playerbase has a GW2 efficiency account. It would likely be 20% of the most dedicated players. The question then becomes how much of the population that hasn't registered with efficiency have completed raid wings. I'm guessing that would skew your entire calculation.Quite the opposite, the site is mostly aimed for veteran casuals who has a need to calculate account worth, mats value/hour analysis(for open map farming), TP flipping, botting assistant, and upcoming progress for crafting a full set of ascended equipment's for their characters. The lower raid statistic proves the discrepancy in real world scenarios. Since hardcore contents usually reward raw gold and free ascended gears of choice, most players who frequent hardcore contents don't usually find these calculations necessary, and is more interested in performance statistics from other sources. Hardocore flippers are on there. People who make legendaries are on there. Because it's helpful. In fact, most casuals don't come to forums, or reddit or scour the internet for sites, they just sort of log in and play. There are absolutely going to be harder core people on GW 2 efficiency because they spend more time in communities and would have heard of it. Yet TP flipping is a casual activity, it does not involve the playing skill level of a player.Neither does analyzing craft cost of a legendary weapon require registering an account as it is an one time affair. This site is mostly useful for players who generate income from materials, therefore find the calculation helpful, instead of raw gold from hardcore contents. TP flipping is absolutely not casual. It requires an investment in time and money that casual farming doesn't. Most casual players don't flip. Those who flip tend to be very very invested in that activity. They form entire guilds for it. HUGE difference between that and a casual farmer.Wrong, most investment of time involved in TP flipping does not require player log-ins, and since TP flipping does not require a large amount of gold to begin with, any player who have a moderate amount of gold can immidiately be involved in the activity.And most importantly, it does not require player skill to warrant it as a hardcore activity.

Well it's a very good sample, at least when it comes to activity. gw2efficiency accounts on average have 2100 hours of playtime. While the global average (official) is about 95 hours, or at least it was in August 2018, but I doubt much changed since then. The difference is overwhelming. So, although gw2efficiency accounts are "only" 314688 accounts, which is a small number of accounts compared to the total, they do contain about 50% of this game's global actual playtime.Meaning where that "sample" spends their time, is where the game does. Ok .... and how many did wing 5/6/7 ?PvE 60% ? Raid 4% ? Well let's have a look at the Raid completion rates, although using only Wing 5/6/7 when the release cadence was already so abysmal isn't a very good idea. So looking at the earlier Raids, when the cadence was more stable is better: I will use the same system as the living world episodes, first boss and last boss, to compete with first instance and last instance.Heart of Thorns: 91% / 65%Spirit Vale: 30% / 21%Salvation Pass: 20% / 18%Stronghold of the Faithful: 26% / 15%Considering only 65% finished HOT, those Raid kill numbers aren't half bad, especially for the first boss. The Head of the Snake: 57% / 49%Bastion of the Penitent: 25% / 16%Compared to the episode it was released with, Bastion numbers are quite good, half of those that started the episode, killed the first boss. Daybreak: 61% / 52%Hall of Chains: 11% / 8%This was indeed a tough one. A Star to Guide Us: 50% / 44%Mythright Gambit: 11% / 7%I think we can see here that the living world lost more players than Raids did, at this point. War Eternal: 49% / 46%The Key of Ahdashim: 10% / 7%Oddly enough War Eternal didn't experience the same losses over time, but neither did Wing 7, with very similar results, maybe the playerbase finally stabilized at that point. At least until the Icebrood Saga started Well there you have it. HOT Raids had a vastly superior popularity compared to POF Raids. HOT raid bosses were between 1/3rd and 1/4th of those that finished the respective episodes. POF Raids were closer to 1/5th - 1/6th. I assume you took these stats from Guild Wars 2 efficiency. My guess is raiders are more likely to list there than more casual players. A lot of people I've talked to don't even know about the site. Let's say, and I'm just picking numbers out of the air, that 20% of the playerbase has a GW2 efficiency account. It would likely be 20% of the most dedicated players. The question then becomes how much of the population that hasn't registered with efficiency have completed raid wings. I'm guessing that would skew your entire calculation.Quite the opposite, the site is mostly aimed for veteran casuals who has a need to calculate account worth, mats value/hour analysis(for open map farming), TP flipping, botting assistant, and upcoming progress for crafting a full set of ascended equipment's for their characters. The lower raid statistic proves the discrepancy in real world scenarios. Since hardcore contents usually reward raw gold and free ascended gears of choice, most players who frequent hardcore contents don't usually find these calculations necessary, and is more interested in performance statistics from other sources. Hardocore flippers are on there. People who make legendaries are on there. Because it's helpful. In fact, most casuals don't come to forums, or reddit or scour the internet for sites, they just sort of log in and play. There are absolutely going to be harder core people on GW 2 efficiency because they spend more time in communities and would have heard of it.Yet TP flipping is a casual activity, it does not involve the playing skill level of a player.Neither does analyzing craft cost of a legendary weapon require registering an account as it is an one time affair. This site is mostly useful for players who generate income from materials, therefore find the calculation helpful, instead of raw gold from hardcore contents.

Well it's a very good sample, at least when it comes to activity. gw2efficiency accounts on average have 2100 hours of playtime. While the global average (official) is about 95 hours, or at least it was in August 2018, but I doubt much changed since then. The difference is overwhelming. So, although gw2efficiency accounts are "only" 314688 accounts, which is a small number of accounts compared to the total, they do contain about 50% of this game's global actual playtime.Meaning where that "sample" spends their time, is where the game does. Ok .... and how many did wing 5/6/7 ?PvE 60% ? Raid 4% ? Well let's have a look at the Raid completion rates, although using only Wing 5/6/7 when the release cadence was already so abysmal isn't a very good idea. So looking at the earlier Raids, when the cadence was more stable is better: I will use the same system as the living world episodes, first boss and last boss, to compete with first instance and last instance.Heart of Thorns: 91% / 65%Spirit Vale: 30% / 21%Salvation Pass: 20% / 18%Stronghold of the Faithful: 26% / 15%Considering only 65% finished HOT, those Raid kill numbers aren't half bad, especially for the first boss. The Head of the Snake: 57% / 49%Bastion of the Penitent: 25% / 16%Compared to the episode it was released with, Bastion numbers are quite good, half of those that started the episode, killed the first boss. Daybreak: 61% / 52%Hall of Chains: 11% / 8%This was indeed a tough one. A Star to Guide Us: 50% / 44%Mythright Gambit: 11% / 7%I think we can see here that the living world lost more players than Raids did, at this point. War Eternal: 49% / 46%The Key of Ahdashim: 10% / 7%Oddly enough War Eternal didn't experience the same losses over time, but neither did Wing 7, with very similar results, maybe the playerbase finally stabilized at that point. At least until the Icebrood Saga started Well there you have it. HOT Raids had a vastly superior popularity compared to POF Raids. HOT raid bosses were between 1/3rd and 1/4th of those that finished the respective episodes. POF Raids were closer to 1/5th - 1/6th. I assume you took these stats from Guild Wars 2 efficiency. My guess is raiders are more likely to list there than more casual players. A lot of people I've talked to don't even know about the site. Let's say, and I'm just picking numbers out of the air, that 20% of the playerbase has a GW2 efficiency account. It would likely be 20% of the most dedicated players. The question then becomes how much of the population that hasn't registered with efficiency have completed raid wings. I'm guessing that would skew your entire calculation.Quite the opposite, the site is mostly aimed for veteran casuals who has a need to calculate account worth, mats value/hour analysis(for open map farming), TP flipping, botting assistant, and upcoming progress for crafting a full set of ascended equipment's for their characters. The lower raid statistic proves the discrepancy in real world scenarios.Since hardcore contents usually reward raw gold and free ascended gears of choice, most players who frequent hardcore contents don't usually find these calculations necessary, and is more interested in performance statistics from other sources.

Yes but unlike you, there are people who actually want to feel that they deserved and earned those skins with their work in the game, I would never buy raid skins. It kills the entire feeling of achieving something in the game... I never bought a raid . I did the escort with my guild early on over and over again to unlock that mastery track, and I got some from wardrobe unlocks I'm pretty sure. As for earning rewards, I earned them by doing the escort and buying skins with currency and even getting a drop from that one chest. But that said, it's okay that people want to earn their hard fought rewards. What's not okay is making rewards for 5% of the population when Anet doesn't have the staff to do other stuff like WvW and PvP updates as well. Those were in the game from launch, raids were added. Let's upgrade what's already there, instead of catering to a new market that the community itself rejected. There you go:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107451/thanks-anet-for-the-changes-to-the-zone-meta-in-drizzlewood-coast#latest I paid for the raid boiss achievement for me and my wife, on her birthday as a birthday gift to her. I paid for myself only because I knew she wouldn't go alone with a bunch of strangers. That's how we work. I never bought a raid just for myself. I have done the escort at least a dozen times, but I haven't raided since. It doesn't make me a raider. It makes me a PvE casual who tried to get his guild through enough of a single raid, just one part, to unlock achievements for raids in the days before raids were hidden. Not even sure what you're trying to prove here. Edit: If you were trying to prove i was lying, that raid buy was so long ago, I'd completely forgotten about it. Not sure what difference you think that makes.A simple correction of previous statement or an apology to the person you wronged would suffice, making more excuses like this doesn't really convince here. Exactly what would I be apologizing for? I didn't get a raid skin on the one raid run I bought, so why would an apology be necesssary. People DO buy raids and have raids skins from them. There are raid sellers advertising so frequently in LFG that raiders complain about them and use filters to get by the people selling raids. They're not selling them to no one. The concept that there are a lot of raid skins so there are a lot of raiders was my point and my point remains. Nothing is changed at all, whether I forget the one single raid run I bought five years ago or not. Shrugs., Isn't that another excuse for lying? Trying to nitpick some very niche exceptions of a context won't make any justifications to that. Especially when the honesty in that is questionable at most.And who's to say that casuals are the primary audience for raid selling? they hardly browse raid LFG and hardly have a gain from buying one boss kill. You really never understood the interest of the casual community, just because you spent hundred(s) of gold buying raid achievement doesn't mean that idea isn't ridiculous to the majority of casuals.As said over and over, your interest do not represent the majority of the casual community. When you try to defend Asum , by saying that Raids are a way to occupy the casuals , because Hard stuff increase their playtime and they will stay longer and might use real money in the future , is wrong . The moment the Wing 3 was released , we saw a drop to the lowestExcept that I didn't, if you have been reading anything from me so far.

Yes but unlike you, there are people who actually want to feel that they deserved and earned those skins with their work in the game, I would never buy raid skins. It kills the entire feeling of achieving something in the game... I never bought a raid . I did the escort with my guild early on over and over again to unlock that mastery track, and I got some from wardrobe unlocks I'm pretty sure. As for earning rewards, I earned them by doing the escort and buying skins with currency and even getting a drop from that one chest. But that said, it's okay that people want to earn their hard fought rewards. What's not okay is making rewards for 5% of the population when Anet doesn't have the staff to do other stuff like WvW and PvP updates as well. Those were in the game from launch, raids were added. Let's upgrade what's already there, instead of catering to a new market that the community itself rejected. There you go:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107451/thanks-anet-for-the-changes-to-the-zone-meta-in-drizzlewood-coast#latest I paid for the raid boiss achievement for me and my wife, on her birthday as a birthday gift to her. I paid for myself only because I knew she wouldn't go alone with a bunch of strangers. That's how we work. I never bought a raid just for myself. I have done the escort at least a dozen times, but I haven't raided since. It doesn't make me a raider. It makes me a PvE casual who tried to get his guild through enough of a single raid, just one part, to unlock achievements for raids in the days before raids were hidden. Not even sure what you're trying to prove here. Edit: If you were trying to prove i was lying, that raid buy was so long ago, I'd completely forgotten about it. Not sure what difference you think that makes.A simple correction of previous statement or an apology to the person you wronged would suffice, making more excuses like this doesn't really convince here. Exactly what would I be apologizing for? I didn't get a raid skin on the one raid run I bought, so why would an apology be necesssary. People DO buy raids and have raids skins from them. There are raid sellers advertising so frequently in LFG that raiders complain about them and use filters to get by the people selling raids. They're not selling them to no one. The concept that there are a lot of raid skins so there are a lot of raiders was my point and my point remains. Nothing is changed at all, whether I forget the one single raid run I bought five years ago or not. Shrugs., Isn't that another excuse for lying? Trying to nitpick some very niche exceptions of a context won't make any justifications to that. Especially when the honesty in that is questionable at most.And who's the say that casuals are the primary audience for raid selling? they hardly browse raid LFG and hardly have a gain from buying one boss kill. You really never understood the interest of the casual community, just because you spent hundred(s) of gold buying raid achievement doesn't mean that idea isn't ridiculous to the majority of casuals.As said over and over, your interest do not represent the majority of the casual community. You can say it over and over again but it doesn't make it true. It's a fact I run a casual guild and I've played with lots of those people for many many years. You think you have a pulse on the casual community. I think I have a pulse on the casual community. And we're likely both right because they're not just one casual community speaking with one voice. There are all sorts of levels of casuals.Yes they are not just one casual community speaking with one voice, and therefore makes it true that your interest does not represent the majority of the casual community. But the claim that Drizzlewood is somehow a hard core raider bastion, based on the idea that you saw a lot of raider skins or titles there is clearly flawed, because there are a number of people that buy raids, and there are some other ways to get raid skins. You simply don't know. As pointed out I have raid skins and and I don't raid, even though I did get through a couple of raids early on. I didn't enjoy what I was doing and stopped. Doesn't stop me from having skins.I never claimed Drizzlewood to be a hardcore raider bastion, that's your repeated accusation without ever reading the context. At most I have stated that I noticed often" Jormag meta" are supported by many raiders.It's also a bold statement that you state that I cannot do something that I did, make a 50 mystic coin wager that I can spot raiders from a squad in a Drizzlewood meta, I'll let you pick the date and join my party.As for the raid skins, your examples are simply irrelevant when it comes in a scale of a mass, if it is true that only 1% of player has ever accomplished raid, then just 5% in the casual community buying raid will easily triple that statistic. I don't get why are you so focused about it just because you happens to buy raid and have a raid skin, even if suddenly some miracles happen and 1 out of 20 players with a raid kill happened to be a casual buyer who bought a raid skin and I misjudged all of them, that's still only 5% margins of error.And most importantly, you ignored the whole context to nit pick one of a numerous trait that I pick as an indicator. The reality is that this game hasn't increase in popularity or business in the whole 2020 with a shift of tone either, nearly all contents got cut in the process and the mood across PvE, PvP, WvW is pretty upset. Simply having casual focused contents were not saving this game.

Yes but unlike you, there are people who actually want to feel that they deserved and earned those skins with their work in the game, I would never buy raid skins. It kills the entire feeling of achieving something in the game... I never bought a raid . I did the escort with my guild early on over and over again to unlock that mastery track, and I got some from wardrobe unlocks I'm pretty sure. As for earning rewards, I earned them by doing the escort and buying skins with currency and even getting a drop from that one chest. But that said, it's okay that people want to earn their hard fought rewards. What's not okay is making rewards for 5% of the population when Anet doesn't have the staff to do other stuff like WvW and PvP updates as well. Those were in the game from launch, raids were added. Let's upgrade what's already there, instead of catering to a new market that the community itself rejected. There you go:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107451/thanks-anet-for-the-changes-to-the-zone-meta-in-drizzlewood-coast#latest I paid for the raid boiss achievement for me and my wife, on her birthday as a birthday gift to her. I paid for myself only because I knew she wouldn't go alone with a bunch of strangers. That's how we work. I never bought a raid just for myself. I have done the escort at least a dozen times, but I haven't raided since. It doesn't make me a raider. It makes me a PvE casual who tried to get his guild through enough of a single raid, just one part, to unlock achievements for raids in the days before raids were hidden. Not even sure what you're trying to prove here. Edit: If you were trying to prove i was lying, that raid buy was so long ago, I'd completely forgotten about it. Not sure what difference you think that makes.A simple correction of previous statement or an apology to the person you wronged would suffice, making more excuses like this doesn't really convince here. Exactly what would I be apologizing for? I didn't get a raid skin on the one raid run I bought, so why would an apology be necesssary. People DO buy raids and have raids skins from them. There are raid sellers advertising so frequently in LFG that raiders complain about them and use filters to get by the people selling raids. They're not selling them to no one. The concept that there are a lot of raid skins so there are a lot of raiders was my point and my point remains. Nothing is changed at all, whether I forget the one single raid run I bought five years ago or not. Shrugs.,Isn't that another excuse for lying? Trying to nitpick some very niche exceptions of a context won't make any justifications to that. Especially when the honesty in that is questionable at most.And who's to say that casuals are the primary audience for raid selling? they hardly browse raid LFG and hardly have a gain from buying one boss kill. You really never understood the interest of the casual community, just because you spent hundred(s) of gold buying raid achievement doesn't mean that idea isn't ridiculous to the majority of casuals.As said over and over, your interest do not represent the majority of the casual community.

There are different ways to be successful. There are successful niche games that don't offer something for everyone and there are broadly focused main stream successes. In a field with a number of broad MMOs already out there, specializing is absolutely an option. Had this game specialized at what it did right the first 3.5 years instead of expanding into raids, it would be stronger today in my opinion, albeit with a different audience. Anet either doesn't have the staffing to provide everything for everyone or it doesn't have the organization. Either way, something always seems to suffer here. The solution, in my opinion, is to specialize. There are too many games competing with raids in them already for Anet to even hope of catching up. You make it sound like Anet did this huge investment into and sacrifice with Raids.The entire endgame team, Fractals and Raids, were 5-10 people of the, at the time around 400 people company. LW being developed by 4 fully stocked content teams. What did ArenaNet so hugely sacrifice for Raids? Let's put those 5 people into LW instead, and maybe they generate ~2 single story instances more a year, with the greatly increased budged on things like writing and VO, etc, maybe 3 since they need to be less concerned with actually adding and developing any mechanics in turn. You really think GW2 would be in a better spot right now, if instead of all of Raids and Fractals, there would have been ~10-20 more story instances along the way over the years, which most people would have played once and mostly forgotten about by now? How would that have been more value for the game than long term repeatable and community building content like Raids? Especially since GW2 is widely known for it's serviceable Story at best, with Story focused players gravitating towards FF XIV, ESO and SWTOR - while the one advantage GW2 always had and has been praised for is it's unparalleled active combat system, as well as it's commitment to non gear grind or pay to win based endgame and PvP. You really think GW2's niche, as a massively multiplayer online game, was more single player Story, when almost every single competitor is known for better Stroy content or even based on successful single player Story franchises and worlds that people want to immerse themselves in - while also providing other content avenues in which GW2 would be even more lacking in then? Let's not forget, Fractals and Raid Wings are 5-30 minutes pieces of content, and largely carried by their difficulty and community aspect (as well as reward structure, like all other content), providing possibly hundreds if not in some cases thousands of hours of entertainment (and years of game/gemstore engagement) to some players.Take that same amount work (or more) with assets, voice acting etc., strip the community aspect and difficulty, and you got 5 to maybe 20 minutes of extra once and done single player content a year. There is a reason every MMO, live service, online game in general, either launches with and develops onto some sort of "endgame" to keep people hooked, or largely fail horribly. It's a no-brainer to at least somewhat invest in. Yes, it's more niche content that you likely can't exclusively focus on, but it's also by far the highest value for investment. I really think GW 2 would be in a spot if raids had never been introduced. In fact, I think GW 2 would have been in a far better spot had raids not been introduced. Let's look at the history. For 9 months after HoT launched (an expansion already seen as hard core by the casual player base, trained by this very game to be the casual player base), we only had PvP tournaments and raids as releases. Nine entire months, after an expansion that largely drove casuals from the game. You might not remember how fast the income fell, but Anet must have seen something there, because they spent one entire quarterly update just to make HoT more causual. They didn't do it because raids were keeping the playerbase going. Look at the quarterly figures for those months as the months passed when pretty much only hard core content was coming out. It was abysmal. And it never really recovered after that. He stabilized at a new low, because casuals walked away from this game. Raids don't exist in a vacuum. Raids are visible. The raids themselves didn't drive those casuals from the game, but the idea that this game used to be for me and now it's not is a big factor for a lot of people. People tend to invest and take ownership of their hobbies. When the Yankees win a game fans don't say they won. They say we won. Because they can relate to the team. It's their team. This game was a casual players paradise, HoT came out and raids were the poster for hard core content. Raiders don't exist in larger numbers than casuals but they post more. They talk more in forums. And so even though only a small percentage of the community is raiding it's a very loud small percent. Casuals who lurk mostly and see this raid talk going on could easily think I'm not going to raid. I might as well not play this game. It's not my game anymore. Because I can assure you that's what happened for a lot of people. I said it before raids came out and and I'm saying it now and the numbers seem to reflect the fact that harder core stuff didn't help or save this game. It cost this game. This game has an end game, just not a standard end game. People are hooked on meta events and collections and making legendary weapons, and zone metas, more than raids. How do I know. Because an Anet dev said not enough people are raiding for them to put effort into making more raids. That's how I know. If not enough people were doing the other stuff, they wouldn't be focusing on it.Again, your experience does not relate to the majority of casuals.Most casual players don't visit the forums, raid discussion has hardly been a topic in casual guilds either, and since Raid has always been an instanced content, it is never been visible to the majority of casuals.It is true that there has been a lot of frustrations among the casual community during the time of HoT, but most involves with the design of open maps themselves, such as the maze structures of terrain, difficulties of the enemy, grindy map currencies, and constant failing of some boss metas. Some of these elements can already be challenging among the hardcore players and the impact is even more severe among the those who doesn't have time to level their gliding mastery or fully develop their elite spec.Many casual players also don't immediately purchase the expansion as well, and they immediately noticed the gap of player advantage in which expansion players have over them, which made them noticeably inferior in WvW, PvP and other cooperative game modes. These has nothing to do with Raid at all. On the other hand, hardcore players will always have more voice in the game, the same principle applies to all MMOs, they will always be the spearhead in analyzing gameplay, and to spark interest in the media. GW2 has very few, if any successful casual player based Youtube channel besides jump puzzle guides. And since this game isn't available on Steam, and hardly many advertisements among other gaming sites, these channels have always been a vital part of its visibility. Rather, the technologies of mobile hardware has gotten a lot more powerful these six years, the rise of mobile MMOs has always been targeting audience with easy entry, low skill requirement, afk farming, and auto plays, all these elements has always been a favorable feature among casual gamers. Like NCSoft's Lineage II mobile is currently in full server capacity, no matter how much Guildwars 2 tries to alter its contents in favor of casuals, the competition won't like to shift its favor. This is also happening among all PC MMOs.

Yes but unlike you, there are people who actually want to feel that they deserved and earned those skins with their work in the game, I would never buy raid skins. It kills the entire feeling of achieving something in the game... I never bought a raid . I did the escort with my guild early on over and over again to unlock that mastery track, and I got some from wardrobe unlocks I'm pretty sure. As for earning rewards, I earned them by doing the escort and buying skins with currency and even getting a drop from that one chest. But that said, it's okay that people want to earn their hard fought rewards. What's not okay is making rewards for 5% of the population when Anet doesn't have the staff to do other stuff like WvW and PvP updates as well. Those were in the game from launch, raids were added. Let's upgrade what's already there, instead of catering to a new market that the community itself rejected. There you go:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107451/thanks-anet-for-the-changes-to-the-zone-meta-in-drizzlewood-coast#latest I paid for the raid boiss achievement for me and my wife, on her birthday as a birthday gift to her. I paid for myself only because I knew she wouldn't go alone with a bunch of strangers. That's how we work. I never bought a raid just for myself. I have done the escort at least a dozen times, but I haven't raided since. It doesn't make me a raider. It makes me a PvE casual who tried to get his guild through enough of a single raid, just one part, to unlock achievements for raids in the days before raids were hidden. Not even sure what you're trying to prove here. Edit: If you were trying to prove i was lying, that raid buy was so long ago, I'd completely forgotten about it. Not sure what difference you think that makes.A simple correction of previous statement or an apology to the person you wronged would suffice, making more excuses like this doesn't really convince here.

I think the reality is both, they don't have enough developers and have organizational issues. But if I can add to the list, communication and planning problems. Something always has to suffer, especially when the wrong expectations are given. Like when someone higher up tells us that something is gonna get faster cadence, but it gets slower. Like when someone is telling us how much they love something and it remains bugged for 6 motnhs. The greatest issue here that they say one thing and do another, but I guess that's true for most game companies, as someone that plays a lot of varied games this is a rather universal truth, but the extend of it is always different. I think another core issue is that they don't have enough active players to sustain the game in a large scale.Back in the core game 6 years ago players would swarm in every half-baked content just because there is an achievement or a collection to be done.The vast groups of players of today just don't seem to be interested of everything, casual or hardcore, besides just to socialize.

Yes but unlike you, there are people who actually want to feel that they deserved and earned those skins with their work in the game, I would never buy raid skins. It kills the entire feeling of achieving something in the game... I never bought a raid . I did the escort with my guild early on over and over again to unlock that mastery track, and I got some from wardrobe unlocks I'm pretty sure. As for earning rewards, I earned them by doing the escort and buying skins with currency and even getting a drop from that one chest. But that said, it's okay that people want to earn their hard fought rewards. What's not okay is making rewards for 5% of the population when Anet doesn't have the staff to do other stuff like WvW and PvP updates as well. Those were in the game from launch, raids were added. Let's upgrade what's already there, instead of catering to a new market that the community itself rejected.There you go:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107451/thanks-anet-for-the-changes-to-the-zone-meta-in-drizzlewood-coast#latest

Most of the player base. Far more people than actually raid. People who love end game challenging content assume that they're in some sort of majority. They ask questions like who would play the game for story and a few cosmetics. That would be pretty much everyone in my guild. 90% of them at least. I mean we have probably five, six raiders in the guiild, but we have 350 people in the guild who don't raid. And this isn't an abberation. What you consider to be the reason to play the game is just that, your reason to play the game. But let's not pretend most of the player base would just into raids just because a new raid happened to come with the expansion. I always thought raids were a mistake in this game and I continue to think raids are a mistake in this game. But I"m relatively sure more people play for story and skins than play for raids and challenging end game PvE content. If that weren't the case, Anet wouldn't keep making it. Nah, fashion wars was a mistake, this is a game, not a competition of who has the best looking in game skins, might as well go play dress up games then if you value how your character looks over playing the game. We see this industry practice in all games, IDC if GW2 also wants to monetize SKINS but where is THE CONTENT? Gaming in 2021 everyone; "I play for skins"; skins are extra, they are not content Nothing says a game can't be focused on things that don't appeal to you and make you conclude if it does, it's a mistake. The thing you claim is a mistake has made Anet a successful business that is sustainable for over 8 years with ongoing future. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to argue what has been successful for them is a mistake and that the solution to that mistake is more raids. If that was in any way true, this game wouldn't have made it to the first expansion. Again, it's not genuine to paint the picture that most people are 'wrong' for playing the game for 'fashion' because it suits your argument for more raids. Sounds to me like you aren't the targeted demographic for GW2. That's not a problem ... there are LOTS of games out there that do what you want Anet to do with GW2. you are missing the entire point of my comment, re-read. skins are not playable content, skins are extras. Playing a game for skins = not playing the game No, I'm not missing your point ... your point simply doesn't make sense. Saying things like "Fashion Wars is a mistake" is nonsense because skins are rewards in this game for doing content and that skin-rewarding content INCLUDES raids. Playing the game to get reward that might be a skin IS playing the game ... and it happens to be a significant portion of the players in the game that DO play this game for things like skins, novelties, etc. Ironically EVEN RAIDERS do raids for those kinds of rewards so obviously you don't know the game and it's players as well as you seem to think you do to make a proper argument for the more raid development. If skins were not a popular reward in this game ... we wouldn't have them ... the SAME reason we don't have new raids (GEE ... that's a common theme isn't it!) Again, you want Anet to add more raids but you seem to advocate doing so according to how your views result in a shrinking target audience with meta think and opinion about what is a proper definition of 'playing the game'. With your exclusive views, do you really think you are actually a good champion of raid development? I don't. like I said, reread my comment, skins are not content, with this I mean the gemstore I can assure you, the depth of your comment only requires it to be read once to understand that it has no relevance to the discussion because no one claimed skins or the gemstore were content in the first place. That's simply just some statement you made to flippantly dismiss what was a very cogent argument made by someone else. That doesn't make sense. The fact that raids are not successful enough to continue being developed has nothing to do with the fact that people can earn skins as a reward from raiding. My point is quite intact in fact; if anything the fact that these kinds of rewards, successfully used to entice players to other parts of the game that continue to be developed, doesn't get the same result of enticing enough people for raids is just more evidence that raids aren't successful content. Why are the rewards in raiding not encouraging enough people to play them when similar rewards do so in many other places? Oh right ... because raids are implemented without considering the playerbase. Even the allure of legendary armor is barely encouraging people to do raids. Yeah ... that's a big fail ... and it's evident by the fact that we don't have more raids being developed. How you view rewards has no relation if the way Anet runs their business is a mistake. If anything, Anet's continued efforts to provide skins as rewards in content INCLUDING RAIDS or as purchasable items in the GS is evidence contrary to your view that fashion wars is a mistake. Again, it's a 'mistake' that makes this a successful business for Anet. If it wasn't, you wouldn't see a focus on skins and we wouldn't have 'fashion wars'. You need to check yourself in here; your view of how the game should work is NOT the one determining the direction of GW2, nor is that view obviously related to a successful business model for GW2 . You seem to think Anet is willing to waste their time doing things they don't think will be worth developing in the game. That's not true. Skins as rewards in raids is ONE example of that. You seem to think that your view is necessary somehow. That's also not true. I literally said anet can monetize skins all they want in the GS and bring skins to the game as long as there is content to play, My reply was about a person who said they only plays for skins, which means that the content is not important for these people and only the end goal of having skins... Since I'm the person you replied to, I suggest you reread the passage. I said story and skins, which is what you claimed no one is playing for. You seem to be laboring under the assumption that most people play to be challenged. People play games to have fun and for some, being challenged is fun. For others being challenged is frustrating. Plenty of people solo MMOs, for example and those people aren't looking to raid. Casual players who come home after a day of work and just want to bang around killing stuff don't play for challenging content. People who like that content are in the top 5% I'd guess. Many others just don't care. They don't have a damage meter. They don't practice their rotations in front of a dummy. They just log in and do a few metas, save currency for a skin and log off. And while skins are not content, we don't do skins. We farm for skins, whether it's gold or currencies or achievements. Dungeons have unique skins and people will run dungeons just to unlock those skins. I did. I ran the dungeons for achievements anyway but I ran far more dungeons than I would have for those skins. Saying skins aren't content is true. How you get skins...that's content.Sadly, that is not quite true for the majority of casual communities today. The process of swapping, adjusting, mixing and presenting skins and other cosmetic items has becoming the main focus of the gameplay, with most of them came from Gemstore and Black Lion chest. Skin sets based on time consuming achievements were mostly skipped because they were simply too tedious. Others easier achievements that rewards skins were usually cheated through by the help of their more hardcore friends/hires doing most of the grunt works. This is especially true when you take a walk around the social spots around Lion's Arch or Divinity's Reach.I'm not saying there aren't still be a significant of players going for these achievements, but they are the minority comparing to the rest. On a side note, I've also been with many active lv69 300+ member casual guilds, less than 1/3 of the guildies knows what's Destiny's Edge, even less cares why one of the main cast makes a very critical decision for the war of the Dragons in the recent Living Story, that also explains how many cares about the story. Most skins aren't in the gem store though. People have been perpetuating this myth for a long time, but there are have been numerous weapon sets that are relatively easy to get from festivals and others that come with Living World, including both armor and weapon sets. Some of that new stuff, particularly recently has been hard to get, but recently, as in the last six months isn't the entire game. Boreal waeapons exist. Tengu weapons exist. They're not in the gem store. There's been several new armor sets, full sets in the game, where there have been no full armor sets in the gem store for ages. In fact, we haven't have a new coat or leggings in the gem store in ages. The gem store is outfits. If you're a fashion wars player, outfits are just a one piece thing that is the same for everyone, with no mix and match. If you're playing fashion wars, outfits are simply out of the equation. Of other stuff that's in the gem store,. like the stuff from black lion collections, most of that stuff ends up on the trading post, and it's usalliy 20-30 gold for a weapon, for the most part, while it' launches and then every time it appears again in the black lion chest. I know this because I fill in skins from time to time. A casual player who does dailies every day gets 14 gold a week (and dailes are easy). If they do either teq or the anomaly periodically or drizzlewood, or Silverwastes or Dragonfall, they have enough money to buy skins from the BLTC without spending cash. As for stuff that's too time consuming or tedious, if you're casual, you don't need to own everything (or shouldn't anyway), but almost all this stuff is within reach gradualliy with the exception of the newest sets. I have a guild full of causals who choose goals and chip away at them slowly over time. They're not hard core farming. They're not spending zillions of dollars in the cash shop. They're simply just banging away slowly at a single specific goal or a number of goals when they feel the whim to do so. Sometimes they even get a lucky drop, like a skin from a black lion key that came from a zone complete or even a log in reward. It doesn't happen often but it absolutely happens. All the causal activities that have been there are still there. Adventures, stuff like the rock concert in Grothmar, AB for people who like that, or the Silverwastes. It's not like no one does Fire Ele anymore either, or Shadow Behemoth. But yes, there are also grindier goals for people who have everything. There's a mix of both. Some of the new weapon skins this year I"ve liked and used have come from festivals. You get them from doing festival dailies, mostly. Still, neither does change any of the context I have mentioned. For the majority of casuals, the focus of the gameplay is still fixated onto skin play while the process of farming usually exist in a insignificant portion of their active play time. You're right the rise of outfits has taken over the gemstore, most casuals has also adapted with this system as it allows them to quick switch without needing an additional set of armor, all these also helps the rise of capes that came in the same theme as the outfits themselves. There is also an increased interest of gambling with BL chests for the time limited exclusive skins. While BL skins does not represent a majority of our skin collection, they are undeniably the most popular ones, and neither of them require players to actively going through the process of farming. It's also true that many casuals do play world boss and meta events, it is rather done for the purpose of social interactivity and only a niche portion of them remain dedicated enough to have a purpose of farming for a skin or an achievement. If anyone have noticed, a squad inside Drizzlewood Jormag meta usually consist of many experienced raiders. I'm not denying that there is a great portion of casual players in this game, but as diverse as the casual base gets, long term veteran casual players who still considered completing achievements as their main goal is just as niche as the raid player base gets, and therefore do not represent the interest of most casual players. I strongly disagree with your entire premise. You may be right for a part of the community but no one has the numbers you claim to have. On the topic of Drizzlewood, I've done this many times and I feel certain a good percentage of the map has no real clue what's going on. Sure there are organized maps by "pro" guilds, but there are also more casual groupings, including many that never get listed in LFG. Some of them don't even have a tag until near the end. How could you possibly know that the group running it is comprised mainly or mostly by organized raiders. This assertion seems very hard to prove to me and goes completely against my observations. Anyone running a damage meter at most meta events will see something like 5% of the people doing 90% of the damage. What you're saying just doesn't seem possible to me. I do not expect that you would agree with the points I've previously written, as I have observed that you do have a tendency to passively suggest that what you do also represent the majority of casual players of this game, there is actually a discrepancy of that compare to the reality. Drizzle wood require extensive farming to reach some basic requirements for sufficient mastery points, players were asked to farm least 10k commendations in total plus 10 Jormag meta completions for the achievement. You and, in your view, your world of casual players, are not the only frequent participant of this map. In fact, I find it amusing that you would perceive that raiders would require "Organized Pro Guilds" for open map events with an oppressive Tag Commander, if that's even ever possible in open world. In my case, I roam carelessly with my own open map builds just like everyone else mindlessly killing trash mobs for commendations without following most of the instructed mechanics. Also, I find it that you do not read my context carefully, I said the meta squad often consist "many raiders", but I never said that they are the majority of the group, or it is handled like an organized raid. You'd be surprised that usually raiders don't play a DPS role in meta boss battles, because they could generate far more indirective and sustainable DPS by taking a dedicated support class that could mass buff or sustain the squad rather than running their rotations with crappy boons. People who has raid experience will quickly notice the contribution of boons and class specific enhancements with durations that is typically non-existent outside of raid. I'm not sure about that comment about dps meter and "5% of the people doing 90% of the damage" towards players in open world either, but that's your own grudge, not ours. How do you know the squad consists of many raiders though? Do they have a raiding badge on them? Those goals you're talking about can be gotten over time. A casual person might do Drizzlewood once or twice a week and cash in some mats they farmed as well. I didn't get it that fast myself. I just took my time and eventually it came. In the mean time, the meta was profitable.Which is why many players who are actively farming Drizzlewood isn't actually as casual as you would think. It wasn't something that the majority of casual players would take in as their main elements of gameplay. I took a long break and haven't done any contents in Jormag Rising until late Febuary this year, so neither my experience came from on release of this Living Story.Raid experienced people are more player performance sensitive in their surroundings, it isn't just about DPS but also account in many player based contributions in events as well. Aside from the presence of raid specific skins and titles, the presence of a Heal Druid, an Alac Ren, a Heal Brand, or a Heal Scourge can usually be easily spotted if you're used to be coordinated with these types of roles. The option allowing players to quickly swap presets has also greatly increased presence with these roles. If you can be more opened minded, there's much you can learn in the open world from raids as well, but I do not think that is the case for you. No, I don't claim to speak for the majority. I didn't make a statement that says there are many raiders in Drizzlewood metas, I simply refuted what you said. But I do have a gulid full of people and there have been, over the years, a whole lot of casuals in and out and passing through and returning. I think my pulse on what's going on in game is at the very least an educated guess.Many raiders in Drizzlewood meta is a truth, but for anyone who actually participate in the guild managing game would know that in any and all casual guilds, claiming knowing 90% what your guildies do is a bold statement. Anyone who actively observing guild member activities will find it to be a lot more diverted. I also don't claim specifically that whatever guilds I'm in have 350, 360, or full of people either, guilds such as these simply kept this number by not actively removing nonactive players, it is more or less just an Guild Ad meme. Bias usually born from many "educated guesses", there isn't much of a different case here. I have raid skins and I'm not a raider. Shrugs.There may be a few exception of raid buyers like yourself who do possess raid skins, it still won't change the context. There are raid buyers advertised every week. There are people who just did a few things to try it out and still got raid skins even though they didn't end up continuing in raiding. I'm pretty sure even wardrobe unlocks raid skins.Again, your overestimating your own doing as the majority of casuals in general. Random raid skin drops in boss kills are generally rare, and even less chances of happening in one attempt or as a wardrobe unlock. And since most of these skins drops are weapons they are generally not the preferable ones over what's available over the trading post to show. Neither do the majority of casual players buy raids, I know some did for mastery points but most don't even attempt to pursuit mastery points beyond the basic ones. You seem to be assuming that content that has a few harder core guys is harder core content, but it's not true. In any event, in any world boss, in any meta there's a few hard core guys that carry it, including AB. Any damage meter will show you that. Drizlewood coast is no different in that way that Dragon Stand. It's a; few strong guys carrying a boatload of casuals who exist in every open world area.Again you don't seem to read the context of my previous posts, I did not say anything about which is harder core content. I simply state that the pursuit over achievement or time consuming collections isn't within the interest of the majority of casuals in general. It's not where their fun is. Most joined World Boss or public meta events to socialize instead of other gaming aspects. You don't have to believe it, but it doesn't make it less true. Just take a damage meter to Shadow Behemoth,. or Teq if you don't believe me.True for you doesn't mean true for them. I suggest that you let go of your grudge and damage meters, then try out different roles in various communities before jumping conclusions of that people do. This way you can offer far more constructive statements than these.

Most of the player base. Far more people than actually raid. People who love end game challenging content assume that they're in some sort of majority. They ask questions like who would play the game for story and a few cosmetics. That would be pretty much everyone in my guild. 90% of them at least. I mean we have probably five, six raiders in the guiild, but we have 350 people in the guild who don't raid. And this isn't an abberation. What you consider to be the reason to play the game is just that, your reason to play the game. But let's not pretend most of the player base would just into raids just because a new raid happened to come with the expansion. I always thought raids were a mistake in this game and I continue to think raids are a mistake in this game. But I"m relatively sure more people play for story and skins than play for raids and challenging end game PvE content. If that weren't the case, Anet wouldn't keep making it. Nah, fashion wars was a mistake, this is a game, not a competition of who has the best looking in game skins, might as well go play dress up games then if you value how your character looks over playing the game. We see this industry practice in all games, IDC if GW2 also wants to monetize SKINS but where is THE CONTENT? Gaming in 2021 everyone; "I play for skins"; skins are extra, they are not content Nothing says a game can't be focused on things that don't appeal to you and make you conclude if it does, it's a mistake. The thing you claim is a mistake has made Anet a successful business that is sustainable for over 8 years with ongoing future. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to argue what has been successful for them is a mistake and that the solution to that mistake is more raids. If that was in any way true, this game wouldn't have made it to the first expansion. Again, it's not genuine to paint the picture that most people are 'wrong' for playing the game for 'fashion' because it suits your argument for more raids. Sounds to me like you aren't the targeted demographic for GW2. That's not a problem ... there are LOTS of games out there that do what you want Anet to do with GW2. you are missing the entire point of my comment, re-read. skins are not playable content, skins are extras. Playing a game for skins = not playing the game No, I'm not missing your point ... your point simply doesn't make sense. Saying things like "Fashion Wars is a mistake" is nonsense because skins are rewards in this game for doing content and that skin-rewarding content INCLUDES raids. Playing the game to get reward that might be a skin IS playing the game ... and it happens to be a significant portion of the players in the game that DO play this game for things like skins, novelties, etc. Ironically EVEN RAIDERS do raids for those kinds of rewards so obviously you don't know the game and it's players as well as you seem to think you do to make a proper argument for the more raid development. If skins were not a popular reward in this game ... we wouldn't have them ... the SAME reason we don't have new raids (GEE ... that's a common theme isn't it!) Again, you want Anet to add more raids but you seem to advocate doing so according to how your views result in a shrinking target audience with meta think and opinion about what is a proper definition of 'playing the game'. With your exclusive views, do you really think you are actually a good champion of raid development? I don't. like I said, reread my comment, skins are not content, with this I mean the gemstore I can assure you, the depth of your comment only requires it to be read once to understand that it has no relevance to the discussion because no one claimed skins or the gemstore were content in the first place. That's simply just some statement you made to flippantly dismiss what was a very cogent argument made by someone else. That doesn't make sense. The fact that raids are not successful enough to continue being developed has nothing to do with the fact that people can earn skins as a reward from raiding. My point is quite intact in fact; if anything the fact that these kinds of rewards, successfully used to entice players to other parts of the game that continue to be developed, doesn't get the same result of enticing enough people for raids is just more evidence that raids aren't successful content. Why are the rewards in raiding not encouraging enough people to play them when similar rewards do so in many other places? Oh right ... because raids are implemented without considering the playerbase. Even the allure of legendary armor is barely encouraging people to do raids. Yeah ... that's a big fail ... and it's evident by the fact that we don't have more raids being developed. How you view rewards has no relation if the way Anet runs their business is a mistake. If anything, Anet's continued efforts to provide skins as rewards in content INCLUDING RAIDS or as purchasable items in the GS is evidence contrary to your view that fashion wars is a mistake. Again, it's a 'mistake' that makes this a successful business for Anet. If it wasn't, you wouldn't see a focus on skins and we wouldn't have 'fashion wars'. You need to check yourself in here; your view of how the game should work is NOT the one determining the direction of GW2, nor is that view obviously related to a successful business model for GW2 . You seem to think Anet is willing to waste their time doing things they don't think will be worth developing in the game. That's not true. Skins as rewards in raids is ONE example of that. You seem to think that your view is necessary somehow. That's also not true. I literally said anet can monetize skins all they want in the GS and bring skins to the game as long as there is content to play, My reply was about a person who said they only plays for skins, which means that the content is not important for these people and only the end goal of having skins... Since I'm the person you replied to, I suggest you reread the passage. I said story and skins, which is what you claimed no one is playing for. You seem to be laboring under the assumption that most people play to be challenged. People play games to have fun and for some, being challenged is fun. For others being challenged is frustrating. Plenty of people solo MMOs, for example and those people aren't looking to raid. Casual players who come home after a day of work and just want to bang around killing stuff don't play for challenging content. People who like that content are in the top 5% I'd guess. Many others just don't care. They don't have a damage meter. They don't practice their rotations in front of a dummy. They just log in and do a few metas, save currency for a skin and log off. And while skins are not content, we don't do skins. We farm for skins, whether it's gold or currencies or achievements. Dungeons have unique skins and people will run dungeons just to unlock those skins. I did. I ran the dungeons for achievements anyway but I ran far more dungeons than I would have for those skins. Saying skins aren't content is true. How you get skins...that's content.Sadly, that is not quite true for the majority of casual communities today. The process of swapping, adjusting, mixing and presenting skins and other cosmetic items has becoming the main focus of the gameplay, with most of them came from Gemstore and Black Lion chest. Skin sets based on time consuming achievements were mostly skipped because they were simply too tedious. Others easier achievements that rewards skins were usually cheated through by the help of their more hardcore friends/hires doing most of the grunt works. This is especially true when you take a walk around the social spots around Lion's Arch or Divinity's Reach.I'm not saying there aren't still be a significant of players going for these achievements, but they are the minority comparing to the rest. On a side note, I've also been with many active lv69 300+ member casual guilds, less than 1/3 of the guildies knows what's Destiny's Edge, even less cares why one of the main cast makes a very critical decision for the war of the Dragons in the recent Living Story, that also explains how many cares about the story. Most skins aren't in the gem store though. People have been perpetuating this myth for a long time, but there are have been numerous weapon sets that are relatively easy to get from festivals and others that come with Living World, including both armor and weapon sets. Some of that new stuff, particularly recently has been hard to get, but recently, as in the last six months isn't the entire game. Boreal waeapons exist. Tengu weapons exist. They're not in the gem store. There's been several new armor sets, full sets in the game, where there have been no full armor sets in the gem store for ages. In fact, we haven't have a new coat or leggings in the gem store in ages. The gem store is outfits. If you're a fashion wars player, outfits are just a one piece thing that is the same for everyone, with no mix and match. If you're playing fashion wars, outfits are simply out of the equation. Of other stuff that's in the gem store,. like the stuff from black lion collections, most of that stuff ends up on the trading post, and it's usalliy 20-30 gold for a weapon, for the most part, while it' launches and then every time it appears again in the black lion chest. I know this because I fill in skins from time to time. A casual player who does dailies every day gets 14 gold a week (and dailes are easy). If they do either teq or the anomaly periodically or drizzlewood, or Silverwastes or Dragonfall, they have enough money to buy skins from the BLTC without spending cash. As for stuff that's too time consuming or tedious, if you're casual, you don't need to own everything (or shouldn't anyway), but almost all this stuff is within reach gradualliy with the exception of the newest sets. I have a guild full of causals who choose goals and chip away at them slowly over time. They're not hard core farming. They're not spending zillions of dollars in the cash shop. They're simply just banging away slowly at a single specific goal or a number of goals when they feel the whim to do so. Sometimes they even get a lucky drop, like a skin from a black lion key that came from a zone complete or even a log in reward. It doesn't happen often but it absolutely happens. All the causal activities that have been there are still there. Adventures, stuff like the rock concert in Grothmar, AB for people who like that, or the Silverwastes. It's not like no one does Fire Ele anymore either, or Shadow Behemoth. But yes, there are also grindier goals for people who have everything. There's a mix of both. Some of the new weapon skins this year I"ve liked and used have come from festivals. You get them from doing festival dailies, mostly. Still, neither does change any of the context I have mentioned. For the majority of casuals, the focus of the gameplay is still fixated onto skin play while the process of farming usually exist in a insignificant portion of their active play time. You're right the rise of outfits has taken over the gemstore, most casuals has also adapted with this system as it allows them to quick switch without needing an additional set of armor, all these also helps the rise of capes that came in the same theme as the outfits themselves. There is also an increased interest of gambling with BL chests for the time limited exclusive skins. While BL skins does not represent a majority of our skin collection, they are undeniably the most popular ones, and neither of them require players to actively going through the process of farming. It's also true that many casuals do play world boss and meta events, it is rather done for the purpose of social interactivity and only a niche portion of them remain dedicated enough to have a purpose of farming for a skin or an achievement. If anyone have noticed, a squad inside Drizzlewood Jormag meta usually consist of many experienced raiders. I'm not denying that there is a great portion of casual players in this game, but as diverse as the casual base gets, long term veteran casual players who still considered completing achievements as their main goal is just as niche as the raid player base gets, and therefore do not represent the interest of most casual players. I strongly disagree with your entire premise. You may be right for a part of the community but no one has the numbers you claim to have. On the topic of Drizzlewood, I've done this many times and I feel certain a good percentage of the map has no real clue what's going on. Sure there are organized maps by "pro" guilds, but there are also more casual groupings, including many that never get listed in LFG. Some of them don't even have a tag until near the end. How could you possibly know that the group running it is comprised mainly or mostly by organized raiders. This assertion seems very hard to prove to me and goes completely against my observations. Anyone running a damage meter at most meta events will see something like 5% of the people doing 90% of the damage. What you're saying just doesn't seem possible to me. I do not expect that you would agree with the points I've previously written, as I have observed that you do have a tendency to passively suggest that what you do also represent the majority of casual players of this game, there is actually a discrepancy of that compare to the reality. Drizzle wood require extensive farming to reach some basic requirements for sufficient mastery points, players were asked to farm least 10k commendations in total plus 10 Jormag meta completions for the achievement. You and, in your view, your world of casual players, are not the only frequent participant of this map. In fact, I find it amusing that you would perceive that raiders would require "Organized Pro Guilds" for open map events with an oppressive Tag Commander, if that's even ever possible in open world. In my case, I roam carelessly with my own open map builds just like everyone else mindlessly killing trash mobs for commendations without following most of the instructed mechanics. Also, I find it that you do not read my context carefully, I said the meta squad often consist "many raiders", but I never said that they are the majority of the group, or it is handled like an organized raid. You'd be surprised that usually raiders don't play a DPS role in meta boss battles, because they could generate far more indirective and sustainable DPS by taking a dedicated support class that could mass buff or sustain the squad rather than running their rotations with crappy boons. People who has raid experience will quickly notice the contribution of boons and class specific enhancements with durations that is typically non-existent outside of raid. I'm not sure about that comment about dps meter and "5% of the people doing 90% of the damage" towards players in open world either, but that's your own grudge, not ours. How do you know the squad consists of many raiders though? Do they have a raiding badge on them? Those goals you're talking about can be gotten over time. A casual person might do Drizzlewood once or twice a week and cash in some mats they farmed as well. I didn't get it that fast myself. I just took my time and eventually it came. In the mean time, the meta was profitable.Which is why many players who are actively farming Drizzlewood isn't actually as casual as you would think. It wasn't something that the majority of casual players would take in as their main elements of gameplay. I took a long break and haven't done any contents in Jormag Rising until late Febuary this year, so neither my experience came from on release of this Living Story.Raid experienced people are more player performance sensitive in their surroundings, it isn't just about DPS but also account in many player based contributions in events as well. Aside from the presence of raid specific skins and titles, the presence of a Heal Druid, an Alac Ren, a Heal Brand, or a Heal Scourge can usually be easily spotted if you're used to be coordinated with these types of roles. The option allowing players to quickly swap presets has also greatly increased presence with these roles. If you can be more opened minded, there's much you can learn in the open world from raids as well, but I do not think that is the case for you. No, I don't claim to speak for the majority. I didn't make a statement that says there are many raiders in Drizzlewood metas, I simply refuted what you said. But I do have a gulid full of people and there have been, over the years, a whole lot of casuals in and out and passing through and returning. I think my pulse on what's going on in game is at the very least an educated guess.Many raiders in Drizzlewood meta is a truth, but for anyone who actually participate in the guild managing game would know that in any and all casual guilds, claiming knowing 90% what your guildies do is a bold statement. Anyone who actively observing guild member activities will find it to be a lot more diverted. I also don't claim specifically that whatever guilds I'm in have 350, 360, or full of people either, guilds such as these simply kept this number by not actively removing nonactive players, it is more or less just an Guild Ad meme. Bias usually born from many "educated guesses", there isn't much of a different case here. I have raid skins and I'm not a raider. Shrugs.There may be a few exception of raid buyers like yourself who do possess raid skins, it still won't change the context.

Most of the player base. Far more people than actually raid. People who love end game challenging content assume that they're in some sort of majority. They ask questions like who would play the game for story and a few cosmetics. That would be pretty much everyone in my guild. 90% of them at least. I mean we have probably five, six raiders in the guiild, but we have 350 people in the guild who don't raid. And this isn't an abberation. What you consider to be the reason to play the game is just that, your reason to play the game. But let's not pretend most of the player base would just into raids just because a new raid happened to come with the expansion. I always thought raids were a mistake in this game and I continue to think raids are a mistake in this game. But I"m relatively sure more people play for story and skins than play for raids and challenging end game PvE content. If that weren't the case, Anet wouldn't keep making it. Nah, fashion wars was a mistake, this is a game, not a competition of who has the best looking in game skins, might as well go play dress up games then if you value how your character looks over playing the game. We see this industry practice in all games, IDC if GW2 also wants to monetize SKINS but where is THE CONTENT? Gaming in 2021 everyone; "I play for skins"; skins are extra, they are not content Nothing says a game can't be focused on things that don't appeal to you and make you conclude if it does, it's a mistake. The thing you claim is a mistake has made Anet a successful business that is sustainable for over 8 years with ongoing future. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to argue what has been successful for them is a mistake and that the solution to that mistake is more raids. If that was in any way true, this game wouldn't have made it to the first expansion. Again, it's not genuine to paint the picture that most people are 'wrong' for playing the game for 'fashion' because it suits your argument for more raids. Sounds to me like you aren't the targeted demographic for GW2. That's not a problem ... there are LOTS of games out there that do what you want Anet to do with GW2. you are missing the entire point of my comment, re-read. skins are not playable content, skins are extras. Playing a game for skins = not playing the game No, I'm not missing your point ... your point simply doesn't make sense. Saying things like "Fashion Wars is a mistake" is nonsense because skins are rewards in this game for doing content and that skin-rewarding content INCLUDES raids. Playing the game to get reward that might be a skin IS playing the game ... and it happens to be a significant portion of the players in the game that DO play this game for things like skins, novelties, etc. Ironically EVEN RAIDERS do raids for those kinds of rewards so obviously you don't know the game and it's players as well as you seem to think you do to make a proper argument for the more raid development. If skins were not a popular reward in this game ... we wouldn't have them ... the SAME reason we don't have new raids (GEE ... that's a common theme isn't it!) Again, you want Anet to add more raids but you seem to advocate doing so according to how your views result in a shrinking target audience with meta think and opinion about what is a proper definition of 'playing the game'. With your exclusive views, do you really think you are actually a good champion of raid development? I don't. like I said, reread my comment, skins are not content, with this I mean the gemstore I can assure you, the depth of your comment only requires it to be read once to understand that it has no relevance to the discussion because no one claimed skins or the gemstore were content in the first place. That's simply just some statement you made to flippantly dismiss what was a very cogent argument made by someone else. That doesn't make sense. The fact that raids are not successful enough to continue being developed has nothing to do with the fact that people can earn skins as a reward from raiding. My point is quite intact in fact; if anything the fact that these kinds of rewards, successfully used to entice players to other parts of the game that continue to be developed, doesn't get the same result of enticing enough people for raids is just more evidence that raids aren't successful content. Why are the rewards in raiding not encouraging enough people to play them when similar rewards do so in many other places? Oh right ... because raids are implemented without considering the playerbase. Even the allure of legendary armor is barely encouraging people to do raids. Yeah ... that's a big fail ... and it's evident by the fact that we don't have more raids being developed. How you view rewards has no relation if the way Anet runs their business is a mistake. If anything, Anet's continued efforts to provide skins as rewards in content INCLUDING RAIDS or as purchasable items in the GS is evidence contrary to your view that fashion wars is a mistake. Again, it's a 'mistake' that makes this a successful business for Anet. If it wasn't, you wouldn't see a focus on skins and we wouldn't have 'fashion wars'. You need to check yourself in here; your view of how the game should work is NOT the one determining the direction of GW2, nor is that view obviously related to a successful business model for GW2 . You seem to think Anet is willing to waste their time doing things they don't think will be worth developing in the game. That's not true. Skins as rewards in raids is ONE example of that. You seem to think that your view is necessary somehow. That's also not true. I literally said anet can monetize skins all they want in the GS and bring skins to the game as long as there is content to play, My reply was about a person who said they only plays for skins, which means that the content is not important for these people and only the end goal of having skins... Since I'm the person you replied to, I suggest you reread the passage. I said story and skins, which is what you claimed no one is playing for. You seem to be laboring under the assumption that most people play to be challenged. People play games to have fun and for some, being challenged is fun. For others being challenged is frustrating. Plenty of people solo MMOs, for example and those people aren't looking to raid. Casual players who come home after a day of work and just want to bang around killing stuff don't play for challenging content. People who like that content are in the top 5% I'd guess. Many others just don't care. They don't have a damage meter. They don't practice their rotations in front of a dummy. They just log in and do a few metas, save currency for a skin and log off. And while skins are not content, we don't do skins. We farm for skins, whether it's gold or currencies or achievements. Dungeons have unique skins and people will run dungeons just to unlock those skins. I did. I ran the dungeons for achievements anyway but I ran far more dungeons than I would have for those skins. Saying skins aren't content is true. How you get skins...that's content.Sadly, that is not quite true for the majority of casual communities today. The process of swapping, adjusting, mixing and presenting skins and other cosmetic items has becoming the main focus of the gameplay, with most of them came from Gemstore and Black Lion chest. Skin sets based on time consuming achievements were mostly skipped because they were simply too tedious. Others easier achievements that rewards skins were usually cheated through by the help of their more hardcore friends/hires doing most of the grunt works. This is especially true when you take a walk around the social spots around Lion's Arch or Divinity's Reach.I'm not saying there aren't still be a significant of players going for these achievements, but they are the minority comparing to the rest. On a side note, I've also been with many active lv69 300+ member casual guilds, less than 1/3 of the guildies knows what's Destiny's Edge, even less cares why one of the main cast makes a very critical decision for the war of the Dragons in the recent Living Story, that also explains how many cares about the story. Most skins aren't in the gem store though. People have been perpetuating this myth for a long time, but there are have been numerous weapon sets that are relatively easy to get from festivals and others that come with Living World, including both armor and weapon sets. Some of that new stuff, particularly recently has been hard to get, but recently, as in the last six months isn't the entire game. Boreal waeapons exist. Tengu weapons exist. They're not in the gem store. There's been several new armor sets, full sets in the game, where there have been no full armor sets in the gem store for ages. In fact, we haven't have a new coat or leggings in the gem store in ages. The gem store is outfits. If you're a fashion wars player, outfits are just a one piece thing that is the same for everyone, with no mix and match. If you're playing fashion wars, outfits are simply out of the equation. Of other stuff that's in the gem store,. like the stuff from black lion collections, most of that stuff ends up on the trading post, and it's usalliy 20-30 gold for a weapon, for the most part, while it' launches and then every time it appears again in the black lion chest. I know this because I fill in skins from time to time. A casual player who does dailies every day gets 14 gold a week (and dailes are easy). If they do either teq or the anomaly periodically or drizzlewood, or Silverwastes or Dragonfall, they have enough money to buy skins from the BLTC without spending cash. As for stuff that's too time consuming or tedious, if you're casual, you don't need to own everything (or shouldn't anyway), but almost all this stuff is within reach gradualliy with the exception of the newest sets. I have a guild full of causals who choose goals and chip away at them slowly over time. They're not hard core farming. They're not spending zillions of dollars in the cash shop. They're simply just banging away slowly at a single specific goal or a number of goals when they feel the whim to do so. Sometimes they even get a lucky drop, like a skin from a black lion key that came from a zone complete or even a log in reward. It doesn't happen often but it absolutely happens. All the causal activities that have been there are still there. Adventures, stuff like the rock concert in Grothmar, AB for people who like that, or the Silverwastes. It's not like no one does Fire Ele anymore either, or Shadow Behemoth. But yes, there are also grindier goals for people who have everything. There's a mix of both. Some of the new weapon skins this year I"ve liked and used have come from festivals. You get them from doing festival dailies, mostly. Still, neither does change any of the context I have mentioned. For the majority of casuals, the focus of the gameplay is still fixated onto skin play while the process of farming usually exist in a insignificant portion of their active play time. You're right the rise of outfits has taken over the gemstore, most casuals has also adapted with this system as it allows them to quick switch without needing an additional set of armor, all these also helps the rise of capes that came in the same theme as the outfits themselves. There is also an increased interest of gambling with BL chests for the time limited exclusive skins. While BL skins does not represent a majority of our skin collection, they are undeniably the most popular ones, and neither of them require players to actively going through the process of farming. It's also true that many casuals do play world boss and meta events, it is rather done for the purpose of social interactivity and only a niche portion of them remain dedicated enough to have a purpose of farming for a skin or an achievement. If anyone have noticed, a squad inside Drizzlewood Jormag meta usually consist of many experienced raiders. I'm not denying that there is a great portion of casual players in this game, but as diverse as the casual base gets, long term veteran casual players who still considered completing achievements as their main goal is just as niche as the raid player base gets, and therefore do not represent the interest of most casual players. I strongly disagree with your entire premise. You may be right for a part of the community but no one has the numbers you claim to have. On the topic of Drizzlewood, I've done this many times and I feel certain a good percentage of the map has no real clue what's going on. Sure there are organized maps by "pro" guilds, but there are also more casual groupings, including many that never get listed in LFG. Some of them don't even have a tag until near the end. How could you possibly know that the group running it is comprised mainly or mostly by organized raiders. This assertion seems very hard to prove to me and goes completely against my observations. Anyone running a damage meter at most meta events will see something like 5% of the people doing 90% of the damage. What you're saying just doesn't seem possible to me. I do not expect that you would agree with the points I've previously written, as I have observed that you do have a tendency to passively suggest that what you do also represent the majority of casual players of this game, there is actually a discrepancy of that compare to the reality. Drizzle wood require extensive farming to reach some basic requirements for sufficient mastery points, players were asked to farm least 10k commendations in total plus 10 Jormag meta completions for the achievement. You and, in your view, your world of casual players, are not the only frequent participant of this map. In fact, I find it amusing that you would perceive that raiders would require "Organized Pro Guilds" for open map events with an oppressive Tag Commander, if that's even ever possible in open world. In my case, I roam carelessly with my own open map builds just like everyone else mindlessly killing trash mobs for commendations without following most of the instructed mechanics. Also, I find it that you do not read my context carefully, I said the meta squad often consist "many raiders", but I never said that they are the majority of the group, or it is handled like an organized raid. You'd be surprised that usually raiders don't play a DPS role in meta boss battles, because they could generate far more indirective and sustainable DPS by taking a dedicated support class that could mass buff or sustain the squad rather than running their rotations with crappy boons. People who has raid experience will quickly notice the contribution of boons and class specific enhancements with durations that is typically non-existent outside of raid. I'm not sure about that comment about dps meter and "5% of the people doing 90% of the damage" towards players in open world either, but that's your own grudge, not ours. How do you know the squad consists of many raiders though? Do they have a raiding badge on them? Those goals you're talking about can be gotten over time. A casual person might do Drizzlewood once or twice a week and cash in some mats they farmed as well. I didn't get it that fast myself. I just took my time and eventually it came. In the mean time, the meta was profitable.Which is why many players who are actively farming Drizzlewood isn't actually as casual as you would think. It wasn't something that the majority of casual players would take in as their main elements of gameplay. I took a long break and haven't done any contents in Jormag Rising until late Febuary this year, so neither my experience came from on release of this Living Story.Raid experienced people are more player performance sensitive in their surroundings, it isn't just about DPS but also account in many player based contributions in events as well. Aside from the presence of raid specific skins and titles, the presence of a Heal Druid, an Alac Ren, a Heal Brand, or a Heal Scourge can usually be easily spotted if you're used to be coordinated with these types of roles. The option allowing players to quickly swap presets has also greatly increased presence with these roles. If you can be more opened minded, there's much you can learn in the open world from raids as well, but I do not think that is the case for you. No, I don't claim to speak for the majority. I didn't make a statement that says there are many raiders in Drizzlewood metas, I simply refuted what you said. But I do have a gulid full of people and there have been, over the years, a whole lot of casuals in and out and passing through and returning. I think my pulse on what's going on in game is at the very least an educated guess.Many raiders in Drizzlewood meta is a truth, but for anyone who actually participate in the guild managing game would know that in any and all casual guilds, claiming knowing 90% what your guildies do is a bold statement. Anyone who actively observing guild member activities will find it to be a lot more diverted. I also don't claim specifically that whatever guilds I'm in have 350, 360, or full of people either, guilds such as these simply kept this number by not actively removing nonactive players, it is more or less just an Guild Ad meme. Bias usually born from many "educated guesses", there isn't much of a different case here.

Most of the player base. Far more people than actually raid. People who love end game challenging content assume that they're in some sort of majority. They ask questions like who would play the game for story and a few cosmetics. That would be pretty much everyone in my guild. 90% of them at least. I mean we have probably five, six raiders in the guiild, but we have 350 people in the guild who don't raid. And this isn't an abberation. What you consider to be the reason to play the game is just that, your reason to play the game. But let's not pretend most of the player base would just into raids just because a new raid happened to come with the expansion. I always thought raids were a mistake in this game and I continue to think raids are a mistake in this game. But I"m relatively sure more people play for story and skins than play for raids and challenging end game PvE content. If that weren't the case, Anet wouldn't keep making it. Nah, fashion wars was a mistake, this is a game, not a competition of who has the best looking in game skins, might as well go play dress up games then if you value how your character looks over playing the game. We see this industry practice in all games, IDC if GW2 also wants to monetize SKINS but where is THE CONTENT? Gaming in 2021 everyone; "I play for skins"; skins are extra, they are not content Nothing says a game can't be focused on things that don't appeal to you and make you conclude if it does, it's a mistake. The thing you claim is a mistake has made Anet a successful business that is sustainable for over 8 years with ongoing future. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to argue what has been successful for them is a mistake and that the solution to that mistake is more raids. If that was in any way true, this game wouldn't have made it to the first expansion. Again, it's not genuine to paint the picture that most people are 'wrong' for playing the game for 'fashion' because it suits your argument for more raids. Sounds to me like you aren't the targeted demographic for GW2. That's not a problem ... there are LOTS of games out there that do what you want Anet to do with GW2. you are missing the entire point of my comment, re-read. skins are not playable content, skins are extras. Playing a game for skins = not playing the game No, I'm not missing your point ... your point simply doesn't make sense. Saying things like "Fashion Wars is a mistake" is nonsense because skins are rewards in this game for doing content and that skin-rewarding content INCLUDES raids. Playing the game to get reward that might be a skin IS playing the game ... and it happens to be a significant portion of the players in the game that DO play this game for things like skins, novelties, etc. Ironically EVEN RAIDERS do raids for those kinds of rewards so obviously you don't know the game and it's players as well as you seem to think you do to make a proper argument for the more raid development. If skins were not a popular reward in this game ... we wouldn't have them ... the SAME reason we don't have new raids (GEE ... that's a common theme isn't it!) Again, you want Anet to add more raids but you seem to advocate doing so according to how your views result in a shrinking target audience with meta think and opinion about what is a proper definition of 'playing the game'. With your exclusive views, do you really think you are actually a good champion of raid development? I don't. like I said, reread my comment, skins are not content, with this I mean the gemstore I can assure you, the depth of your comment only requires it to be read once to understand that it has no relevance to the discussion because no one claimed skins or the gemstore were content in the first place. That's simply just some statement you made to flippantly dismiss what was a very cogent argument made by someone else. That doesn't make sense. The fact that raids are not successful enough to continue being developed has nothing to do with the fact that people can earn skins as a reward from raiding. My point is quite intact in fact; if anything the fact that these kinds of rewards, successfully used to entice players to other parts of the game that continue to be developed, doesn't get the same result of enticing enough people for raids is just more evidence that raids aren't successful content. Why are the rewards in raiding not encouraging enough people to play them when similar rewards do so in many other places? Oh right ... because raids are implemented without considering the playerbase. Even the allure of legendary armor is barely encouraging people to do raids. Yeah ... that's a big fail ... and it's evident by the fact that we don't have more raids being developed. How you view rewards has no relation if the way Anet runs their business is a mistake. If anything, Anet's continued efforts to provide skins as rewards in content INCLUDING RAIDS or as purchasable items in the GS is evidence contrary to your view that fashion wars is a mistake. Again, it's a 'mistake' that makes this a successful business for Anet. If it wasn't, you wouldn't see a focus on skins and we wouldn't have 'fashion wars'. You need to check yourself in here; your view of how the game should work is NOT the one determining the direction of GW2, nor is that view obviously related to a successful business model for GW2 . You seem to think Anet is willing to waste their time doing things they don't think will be worth developing in the game. That's not true. Skins as rewards in raids is ONE example of that. You seem to think that your view is necessary somehow. That's also not true. I literally said anet can monetize skins all they want in the GS and bring skins to the game as long as there is content to play, My reply was about a person who said they only plays for skins, which means that the content is not important for these people and only the end goal of having skins... Since I'm the person you replied to, I suggest you reread the passage. I said story and skins, which is what you claimed no one is playing for. You seem to be laboring under the assumption that most people play to be challenged. People play games to have fun and for some, being challenged is fun. For others being challenged is frustrating. Plenty of people solo MMOs, for example and those people aren't looking to raid. Casual players who come home after a day of work and just want to bang around killing stuff don't play for challenging content. People who like that content are in the top 5% I'd guess. Many others just don't care. They don't have a damage meter. They don't practice their rotations in front of a dummy. They just log in and do a few metas, save currency for a skin and log off. And while skins are not content, we don't do skins. We farm for skins, whether it's gold or currencies or achievements. Dungeons have unique skins and people will run dungeons just to unlock those skins. I did. I ran the dungeons for achievements anyway but I ran far more dungeons than I would have for those skins. Saying skins aren't content is true. How you get skins...that's content.Sadly, that is not quite true for the majority of casual communities today. The process of swapping, adjusting, mixing and presenting skins and other cosmetic items has becoming the main focus of the gameplay, with most of them came from Gemstore and Black Lion chest. Skin sets based on time consuming achievements were mostly skipped because they were simply too tedious. Others easier achievements that rewards skins were usually cheated through by the help of their more hardcore friends/hires doing most of the grunt works. This is especially true when you take a walk around the social spots around Lion's Arch or Divinity's Reach.I'm not saying there aren't still be a significant of players going for these achievements, but they are the minority comparing to the rest. On a side note, I've also been with many active lv69 300+ member casual guilds, less than 1/3 of the guildies knows what's Destiny's Edge, even less cares why one of the main cast makes a very critical decision for the war of the Dragons in the recent Living Story, that also explains how many cares about the story. Most skins aren't in the gem store though. People have been perpetuating this myth for a long time, but there are have been numerous weapon sets that are relatively easy to get from festivals and others that come with Living World, including both armor and weapon sets. Some of that new stuff, particularly recently has been hard to get, but recently, as in the last six months isn't the entire game. Boreal waeapons exist. Tengu weapons exist. They're not in the gem store. There's been several new armor sets, full sets in the game, where there have been no full armor sets in the gem store for ages. In fact, we haven't have a new coat or leggings in the gem store in ages. The gem store is outfits. If you're a fashion wars player, outfits are just a one piece thing that is the same for everyone, with no mix and match. If you're playing fashion wars, outfits are simply out of the equation. Of other stuff that's in the gem store,. like the stuff from black lion collections, most of that stuff ends up on the trading post, and it's usalliy 20-30 gold for a weapon, for the most part, while it' launches and then every time it appears again in the black lion chest. I know this because I fill in skins from time to time. A casual player who does dailies every day gets 14 gold a week (and dailes are easy). If they do either teq or the anomaly periodically or drizzlewood, or Silverwastes or Dragonfall, they have enough money to buy skins from the BLTC without spending cash. As for stuff that's too time consuming or tedious, if you're casual, you don't need to own everything (or shouldn't anyway), but almost all this stuff is within reach gradualliy with the exception of the newest sets. I have a guild full of causals who choose goals and chip away at them slowly over time. They're not hard core farming. They're not spending zillions of dollars in the cash shop. They're simply just banging away slowly at a single specific goal or a number of goals when they feel the whim to do so. Sometimes they even get a lucky drop, like a skin from a black lion key that came from a zone complete or even a log in reward. It doesn't happen often but it absolutely happens. All the causal activities that have been there are still there. Adventures, stuff like the rock concert in Grothmar, AB for people who like that, or the Silverwastes. It's not like no one does Fire Ele anymore either, or Shadow Behemoth. But yes, there are also grindier goals for people who have everything. There's a mix of both. Some of the new weapon skins this year I"ve liked and used have come from festivals. You get them from doing festival dailies, mostly. Still, neither does change any of the context I have mentioned. For the majority of casuals, the focus of the gameplay is still fixated onto skin play while the process of farming usually exist in a insignificant portion of their active play time. You're right the rise of outfits has taken over the gemstore, most casuals has also adapted with this system as it allows them to quick switch without needing an additional set of armor, all these also helps the rise of capes that came in the same theme as the outfits themselves. There is also an increased interest of gambling with BL chests for the time limited exclusive skins. While BL skins does not represent a majority of our skin collection, they are undeniably the most popular ones, and neither of them require players to actively going through the process of farming. It's also true that many casuals do play world boss and meta events, it is rather done for the purpose of social interactivity and only a niche portion of them remain dedicated enough to have a purpose of farming for a skin or an achievement. If anyone have noticed, a squad inside Drizzlewood Jormag meta usually consist of many experienced raiders. I'm not denying that there is a great portion of casual players in this game, but as diverse as the casual base gets, long term veteran casual players who still considered completing achievements as their main goal is just as niche as the raid player base gets, and therefore do not represent the interest of most casual players. I strongly disagree with your entire premise. You may be right for a part of the community but no one has the numbers you claim to have. On the topic of Drizzlewood, I've done this many times and I feel certain a good percentage of the map has no real clue what's going on. Sure there are organized maps by "pro" guilds, but there are also more casual groupings, including many that never get listed in LFG. Some of them don't even have a tag until near the end. How could you possibly know that the group running it is comprised mainly or mostly by organized raiders. This assertion seems very hard to prove to me and goes completely against my observations. Anyone running a damage meter at most meta events will see something like 5% of the people doing 90% of the damage. What you're saying just doesn't seem possible to me.I do not expect that you would agree with the points I've previously written, as I have observed that you do have a tendency to passively suggest that what you do also represent the majority of casual players of this game, there is actually a discrepancy of that compare to the reality. Drizzle wood require extensive farming to reach some basic requirements for sufficient mastery points, players were asked to farm least 10k commendations in total plus 10 Jormag meta completions for the achievement. You and, in your view, your world of casual players, are not the only frequent participant of this map. In fact, I find it amusing that you would perceive that raiders would require "Organized Pro Guilds" for open map events with an oppressive Tag Commander, if that's even ever possible in open world. In my case, I roam carelessly with my own open map builds just like everyone else mindlessly killing trash mobs for commendations without following most of the instructed mechanics. Also, I find it that you do not read my context carefully, I said the meta squad often consist "many raiders", but I never said that they are the majority of the group, or it is handled like an organized raid. You'd be surprised that usually raiders don't play a DPS role in meta boss battles, because they could generate far more indirective and sustainable DPS by taking a dedicated support class that could mass buff or sustain the squad rather than running their rotations with crappy boons. People who has raid experience will quickly notice the contribution of boons and class specific enhancements with durations that is typically non-existent outside of raid. I'm not sure about that comment about dps meter and "5% of the people doing 90% of the damage" towards players in open world either, but that's your own grudge, not ours.

Most of the player base. Far more people than actually raid. People who love end game challenging content assume that they're in some sort of majority. They ask questions like who would play the game for story and a few cosmetics. That would be pretty much everyone in my guild. 90% of them at least. I mean we have probably five, six raiders in the guiild, but we have 350 people in the guild who don't raid. And this isn't an abberation. What you consider to be the reason to play the game is just that, your reason to play the game. But let's not pretend most of the player base would just into raids just because a new raid happened to come with the expansion. I always thought raids were a mistake in this game and I continue to think raids are a mistake in this game. But I"m relatively sure more people play for story and skins than play for raids and challenging end game PvE content. If that weren't the case, Anet wouldn't keep making it. Nah, fashion wars was a mistake, this is a game, not a competition of who has the best looking in game skins, might as well go play dress up games then if you value how your character looks over playing the game. We see this industry practice in all games, IDC if GW2 also wants to monetize SKINS but where is THE CONTENT? Gaming in 2021 everyone; "I play for skins"; skins are extra, they are not content Nothing says a game can't be focused on things that don't appeal to you and make you conclude if it does, it's a mistake. The thing you claim is a mistake has made Anet a successful business that is sustainable for over 8 years with ongoing future. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to argue what has been successful for them is a mistake and that the solution to that mistake is more raids. If that was in any way true, this game wouldn't have made it to the first expansion. Again, it's not genuine to paint the picture that most people are 'wrong' for playing the game for 'fashion' because it suits your argument for more raids. Sounds to me like you aren't the targeted demographic for GW2. That's not a problem ... there are LOTS of games out there that do what you want Anet to do with GW2. you are missing the entire point of my comment, re-read. skins are not playable content, skins are extras. Playing a game for skins = not playing the game No, I'm not missing your point ... your point simply doesn't make sense. Saying things like "Fashion Wars is a mistake" is nonsense because skins are rewards in this game for doing content and that skin-rewarding content INCLUDES raids. Playing the game to get reward that might be a skin IS playing the game ... and it happens to be a significant portion of the players in the game that DO play this game for things like skins, novelties, etc. Ironically EVEN RAIDERS do raids for those kinds of rewards so obviously you don't know the game and it's players as well as you seem to think you do to make a proper argument for the more raid development. If skins were not a popular reward in this game ... we wouldn't have them ... the SAME reason we don't have new raids (GEE ... that's a common theme isn't it!) Again, you want Anet to add more raids but you seem to advocate doing so according to how your views result in a shrinking target audience with meta think and opinion about what is a proper definition of 'playing the game'. With your exclusive views, do you really think you are actually a good champion of raid development? I don't. like I said, reread my comment, skins are not content, with this I mean the gemstore I can assure you, the depth of your comment only requires it to be read once to understand that it has no relevance to the discussion because no one claimed skins or the gemstore were content in the first place. That's simply just some statement you made to flippantly dismiss what was a very cogent argument made by someone else. That doesn't make sense. The fact that raids are not successful enough to continue being developed has nothing to do with the fact that people can earn skins as a reward from raiding. My point is quite intact in fact; if anything the fact that these kinds of rewards, successfully used to entice players to other parts of the game that continue to be developed, doesn't get the same result of enticing enough people for raids is just more evidence that raids aren't successful content. Why are the rewards in raiding not encouraging enough people to play them when similar rewards do so in many other places? Oh right ... because raids are implemented without considering the playerbase. Even the allure of legendary armor is barely encouraging people to do raids. Yeah ... that's a big fail ... and it's evident by the fact that we don't have more raids being developed. How you view rewards has no relation if the way Anet runs their business is a mistake. If anything, Anet's continued efforts to provide skins as rewards in content INCLUDING RAIDS or as purchasable items in the GS is evidence contrary to your view that fashion wars is a mistake. Again, it's a 'mistake' that makes this a successful business for Anet. If it wasn't, you wouldn't see a focus on skins and we wouldn't have 'fashion wars'. You need to check yourself in here; your view of how the game should work is NOT the one determining the direction of GW2, nor is that view obviously related to a successful business model for GW2 . You seem to think Anet is willing to waste their time doing things they don't think will be worth developing in the game. That's not true. Skins as rewards in raids is ONE example of that. You seem to think that your view is necessary somehow. That's also not true. I literally said anet can monetize skins all they want in the GS and bring skins to the game as long as there is content to play, My reply was about a person who said they only plays for skins, which means that the content is not important for these people and only the end goal of having skins... Since I'm the person you replied to, I suggest you reread the passage. I said story and skins, which is what you claimed no one is playing for. You seem to be laboring under the assumption that most people play to be challenged. People play games to have fun and for some, being challenged is fun. For others being challenged is frustrating. Plenty of people solo MMOs, for example and those people aren't looking to raid. Casual players who come home after a day of work and just want to bang around killing stuff don't play for challenging content. People who like that content are in the top 5% I'd guess. Many others just don't care. They don't have a damage meter. They don't practice their rotations in front of a dummy. They just log in and do a few metas, save currency for a skin and log off. And while skins are not content, we don't do skins. We farm for skins, whether it's gold or currencies or achievements. Dungeons have unique skins and people will run dungeons just to unlock those skins. I did. I ran the dungeons for achievements anyway but I ran far more dungeons than I would have for those skins. Saying skins aren't content is true. How you get skins...that's content.Sadly, that is not quite true for the majority of casual communities today. The process of swapping, adjusting, mixing and presenting skins and other cosmetic items has becoming the main focus of the gameplay, with most of them came from Gemstore and Black Lion chest. Skin sets based on time consuming achievements were mostly skipped because they were simply too tedious. Others easier achievements that rewards skins were usually cheated through by the help of their more hardcore friends/hires doing most of the grunt works. This is especially true when you take a walk around the social spots around Lion's Arch or Divinity's Reach.I'm not saying there aren't still be a significant of players going for these achievements, but they are the minority comparing to the rest. On a side note, I've also been with many active lv69 300+ member casual guilds, less than 1/3 of the guildies knows what's Destiny's Edge, even less cares why one of the main cast makes a very critical decision for the war of the Dragons in the recent Living Story, that also explains how many cares about the story. Most skins aren't in the gem store though. People have been perpetuating this myth for a long time, but there are have been numerous weapon sets that are relatively easy to get from festivals and others that come with Living World, including both armor and weapon sets. Some of that new stuff, particularly recently has been hard to get, but recently, as in the last six months isn't the entire game. Boreal waeapons exist. Tengu weapons exist. They're not in the gem store. There's been several new armor sets, full sets in the game, where there have been no full armor sets in the gem store for ages. In fact, we haven't have a new coat or leggings in the gem store in ages. The gem store is outfits. If you're a fashion wars player, outfits are just a one piece thing that is the same for everyone, with no mix and match. If you're playing fashion wars, outfits are simply out of the equation. Of other stuff that's in the gem store,. like the stuff from black lion collections, most of that stuff ends up on the trading post, and it's usalliy 20-30 gold for a weapon, for the most part, while it' launches and then every time it appears again in the black lion chest. I know this because I fill in skins from time to time. A casual player who does dailies every day gets 14 gold a week (and dailes are easy). If they do either teq or the anomaly periodically or drizzlewood, or Silverwastes or Dragonfall, they have enough money to buy skins from the BLTC without spending cash. As for stuff that's too time consuming or tedious, if you're casual, you don't need to own everything (or shouldn't anyway), but almost all this stuff is within reach gradualliy with the exception of the newest sets. I have a guild full of causals who choose goals and chip away at them slowly over time. They're not hard core farming. They're not spending zillions of dollars in the cash shop. They're simply just banging away slowly at a single specific goal or a number of goals when they feel the whim to do so. Sometimes they even get a lucky drop, like a skin from a black lion key that came from a zone complete or even a log in reward. It doesn't happen often but it absolutely happens. All the causal activities that have been there are still there. Adventures, stuff like the rock concert in Grothmar, AB for people who like that, or the Silverwastes. It's not like no one does Fire Ele anymore either, or Shadow Behemoth. But yes, there are also grindier goals for people who have everything. There's a mix of both. Some of the new weapon skins this year I"ve liked and used have come from festivals. You get them from doing festival dailies, mostly. Still, neither does change any of the context I have mentioned. For the majority of casuals, the focus of the gameplay is still fixated onto skin play while the process of farming usually exist in a insignificant portion of their active play time. You're right the rise of outfits has taken over the gemstore, most casuals has also adapted with this system as it allows them to quick switch without needing an additional set of armor, all these also helps the rise of capes that came in the same theme as the outfits themselves. There is also an increased interest of gambling with BL chests for the time limited exclusive skins. While BL skins does not represent a majority of our skin collection, they are undeniably the most popular ones, and neither of them require players to actively going through the process of farming. It's also true that many casuals do play world boss and meta events, it is rather done for the purpose of social interactivity and only a niche portion of them remain dedicated enough to have a purpose of farming for a skin or an achievement. If anyone have noticed, a squad inside Drizzlewood Jormag meta usually consist of many experienced raiders. I'm not denying that there is a great portion of casual players in this game, but as diverse as the casual base gets, long term veteran casual players who still considered completing achievements as their main goal is just as niche as the raid player base gets, and therefore do not represent the interest of most casual players.

I do not see the community reception to turn anytime soon, this is by far the worst attempt of living story content in the whole history of GW2.

Most of the player base. Far more people than actually raid. People who love end game challenging content assume that they're in some sort of majority. They ask questions like who would play the game for story and a few cosmetics. That would be pretty much everyone in my guild. 90% of them at least. I mean we have probably five, six raiders in the guiild, but we have 350 people in the guild who don't raid. And this isn't an abberation. What you consider to be the reason to play the game is just that, your reason to play the game. But let's not pretend most of the player base would just into raids just because a new raid happened to come with the expansion. I always thought raids were a mistake in this game and I continue to think raids are a mistake in this game. But I"m relatively sure more people play for story and skins than play for raids and challenging end game PvE content. If that weren't the case, Anet wouldn't keep making it. Nah, fashion wars was a mistake, this is a game, not a competition of who has the best looking in game skins, might as well go play dress up games then if you value how your character looks over playing the game. We see this industry practice in all games, IDC if GW2 also wants to monetize SKINS but where is THE CONTENT? Gaming in 2021 everyone; "I play for skins"; skins are extra, they are not content Nothing says a game can't be focused on things that don't appeal to you and make you conclude if it does, it's a mistake. The thing you claim is a mistake has made Anet a successful business that is sustainable for over 8 years with ongoing future. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to argue what has been successful for them is a mistake and that the solution to that mistake is more raids. If that was in any way true, this game wouldn't have made it to the first expansion. Again, it's not genuine to paint the picture that most people are 'wrong' for playing the game for 'fashion' because it suits your argument for more raids. Sounds to me like you aren't the targeted demographic for GW2. That's not a problem ... there are LOTS of games out there that do what you want Anet to do with GW2. you are missing the entire point of my comment, re-read. skins are not playable content, skins are extras. Playing a game for skins = not playing the game No, I'm not missing your point ... your point simply doesn't make sense. Saying things like "Fashion Wars is a mistake" is nonsense because skins are rewards in this game for doing content and that skin-rewarding content INCLUDES raids. Playing the game to get reward that might be a skin IS playing the game ... and it happens to be a significant portion of the players in the game that DO play this game for things like skins, novelties, etc. Ironically EVEN RAIDERS do raids for those kinds of rewards so obviously you don't know the game and it's players as well as you seem to think you do to make a proper argument for the more raid development. If skins were not a popular reward in this game ... we wouldn't have them ... the SAME reason we don't have new raids (GEE ... that's a common theme isn't it!) Again, you want Anet to add more raids but you seem to advocate doing so according to how your views result in a shrinking target audience with meta think and opinion about what is a proper definition of 'playing the game'. With your exclusive views, do you really think you are actually a good champion of raid development? I don't. like I said, reread my comment, skins are not content, with this I mean the gemstore I can assure you, the depth of your comment only requires it to be read once to understand that it has no relevance to the discussion because no one claimed skins or the gemstore were content in the first place. That's simply just some statement you made to flippantly dismiss what was a very cogent argument made by someone else. That doesn't make sense. The fact that raids are not successful enough to continue being developed has nothing to do with the fact that people can earn skins as a reward from raiding. My point is quite intact in fact; if anything the fact that these kinds of rewards, successfully used to entice players to other parts of the game that continue to be developed, doesn't get the same result of enticing enough people for raids is just more evidence that raids aren't successful content. Why are the rewards in raiding not encouraging enough people to play them when similar rewards do so in many other places? Oh right ... because raids are implemented without considering the playerbase. Even the allure of legendary armor is barely encouraging people to do raids. Yeah ... that's a big fail ... and it's evident by the fact that we don't have more raids being developed. How you view rewards has no relation if the way Anet runs their business is a mistake. If anything, Anet's continued efforts to provide skins as rewards in content INCLUDING RAIDS or as purchasable items in the GS is evidence contrary to your view that fashion wars is a mistake. Again, it's a 'mistake' that makes this a successful business for Anet. If it wasn't, you wouldn't see a focus on skins and we wouldn't have 'fashion wars'. You need to check yourself in here; your view of how the game should work is NOT the one determining the direction of GW2, nor is that view obviously related to a successful business model for GW2 . You seem to think Anet is willing to waste their time doing things they don't think will be worth developing in the game. That's not true. Skins as rewards in raids is ONE example of that. You seem to think that your view is necessary somehow. That's also not true. I literally said anet can monetize skins all they want in the GS and bring skins to the game as long as there is content to play, My reply was about a person who said they only plays for skins, which means that the content is not important for these people and only the end goal of having skins... Since I'm the person you replied to, I suggest you reread the passage. I said story and skins, which is what you claimed no one is playing for. You seem to be laboring under the assumption that most people play to be challenged. People play games to have fun and for some, being challenged is fun. For others being challenged is frustrating. Plenty of people solo MMOs, for example and those people aren't looking to raid. Casual players who come home after a day of work and just want to bang around killing stuff don't play for challenging content. People who like that content are in the top 5% I'd guess. Many others just don't care. They don't have a damage meter. They don't practice their rotations in front of a dummy. They just log in and do a few metas, save currency for a skin and log off. And while skins are not content, we don't do skins. We farm for skins, whether it's gold or currencies or achievements. Dungeons have unique skins and people will run dungeons just to unlock those skins. I did. I ran the dungeons for achievements anyway but I ran far more dungeons than I would have for those skins. Saying skins aren't content is true. How you get skins...that's content.Sadly, that is not quite true for the majority of casual communities today.The process of swapping, adjusting, mixing and presenting skins and other cosmetic items has becoming the main focus of the gameplay, with most of them came from Gemstore and Black Lion chest. Skin sets based on time consuming achievements were mostly skipped because they were simply too tedious. Others easier achievements that rewards skins were usually cheated through by the help of their more hardcore friends/hires doing most of the grunt works. This is especially true when you take a walk around the social spots around Lion's Arch or Divinity's Reach.I'm not saying there aren't still be a significant of players going for these achievements, but they are the minority comparing to the rest. On a side note, I've also been with many active lv69 300+ member casual guilds, less than 1/3 of the guildies knows what's Destiny's Edge, even less cares why one of the main cast makes a very critical decision for the war of the Dragons in the recent Living Story, that also explains how many cares about the story.