birdboy.6509

I think most of these changes are good, serpents touch is iffy as it affects every thief build, not just the overperforming ones but it doesn't make that big of a difference.My only contention isWarrior’s CunningWe’re making an adjustment to bring Warrior’s Cunning more in-line with other damage traits.Warrior's Cunning: Reduced damage bonus against targets above 90% health from 25% to 7% in PvP only. Reduced damage bonus against targets with barrier from 50% to 10% in PvP only.I think this is overkill, and core warrior will vanish back to obscurity after these changes. I think it was a really cool idea to have a class that countered barrier spam unkillable side noders like weaver or prot holo, as they are generally pretty unfun to play against. While this trait was definitely overtuned and broken it would be nice if core warrior still had a niche in the meta. (which it wont if these changes happen, especially with rampage nerfs)Maybe make it 15% for targets above 90% and 25% more to barrier?Something else that's broken and I think deserves a nerf is the menders symbol spam firebrand that has been running around crazy in ranked, unranked, and AT's as well.Just the other day I played against a triple firebrand double prot holo comp in finals. Symbolbrand is equally cancerous and overpowered as the aforementioned-soon-to-be-nerfed classes. Please nerf them too, as tools holo and condi mes were the only classes keeping them in check, and without them the balance will be thrown off.

Obviously I know long reach hasn't been implemented I literally just suggested it - Is that seriously your comeback here? Or are you trying to sound witty? It's hard to tell through your broken English. Core DP is unseen because it is bad and taking long reach wouldn't change that. You basically proved my point that long reach wouldn't make it OP by saying that you can already shadowstep to add that kind of distance to your burst. The fact that the build is virtually unplayed currently proves that.To tell me that I have lack of understanding when you've been proven wrong in every comment you've posted so far makes you look seriously deluded bud. Sure winning monthlies doesn't mean I'm automatically right, but it does mean that I'm not a "casual" as you called me - and I probably know a little bit more than you. We are talking about how to make DP dash viable again, and your points refuting my suggestion were all incorrect. The long reach trait would not affect any other thief build, and would be a huge step towards bringing back our beloved spec.Unless you'd like to offer an actually constructive and factual suggestion I think we're done here.

Staff 3 is an instacast with an innate evade of 0.5 sec, where 0,5 sec is the aftercast of ability. Where is the "vuln" window? If you chain staff 3, you can chain up to 2 sec complete evasion, combine that with dodges, staff mastery, quick pockets and energy sigils, and you have around 6,5 sec of evasion every 10 seconds (yes, 65%-70% uptime).Adding a cast time to the ability that cleanses immobilize is weird, I agree, but without it we have what it is.As I said, cheapest way (what i actually expect), make staff 3 cost 5 initiative (or even 6 LUL), which will drastically affect those, who just spam it. I've won 4 monthlies.. who's a casual? SD is the only viable core buildWhen are you ever going to need to have a "2700 range insta gap closer" at the cost of other valuable traits and utilities? You wouldn't even be able to see your target at that distance nevermind line up a backstab and make sure you don't miss your steal. If you're playing like that you'd be lucky to land even one of your "15k every 20 second" combos that your saying core DP can achieve. And even if that was true, why have I not seen it in any kind of competitive game?You're still wrong about staff thief, and Anet just removed jump staff 3 in a hotfix a few hours ago, and increased the initiative to 6. You clearly haven't watched any of past MAT's or even played staff thief because you would know that there is a vuln frame in normal staff 3. Hence why all the good staff thieves only used jump staff 3.My mistake to even take you seriously for a moment, even though your DE gameplay you stream is very unimpressive I assumed you at least knew a little. Guess I was wrong.ttfn

Deadeye discrimination?So you want core thief to be able to have 1800 range steal, right? LULAlso, even lesser haste is bad, there's master tier trait in trickery that procs 2 stacks of torment on interrupt. Even on condi builds this trait is trash and never worth taking. how about we switch this for something useful? considering it competes with "musthave" bountiful theft?After all, bad suggestion still, because core thief doesn't need its steal range improved, and swipe shouldn't be 600 in the first place.900 range is a solid trade for relative value that unblockable brings. As for the rest:Staff/staff has a redundant amount of evades, but in fact fixing 3+jump animation won't change that, adding precasts and aftercasts is the way (same as vault 5), or there's a cheap way — increase #3 ini cost. After deadly ambition change, removing cripple from lotus dodge will make condi daredevil gameplay harder, without reducing its max potential (also will interact with spider venom application). Long reach competes with thrill of the crime, core thief doesn't need to take it. Fury + might is more valuable for an SD thief anyway, since you have infiltrator strike already increasing your steal range. ( Not to mention core thief is extremely weak right now like I said already )The other reason why I suggested adding long reach is because it would also compete with the caltrops on dodge roll, so CONDI THEIF can't afford to take it either.This way DP will have its old steal range and we won't have the condi daredevil with 900 range swipe baseline. (I'm sure the forums would love swipe to get another buff after it's cd reduction XD) You are wrong about staff thief, normal staff 3 has a vuln frame - but jump staff 3 does not. This is why I said to either remove the ability to do so or decrease the evade duration. (not to mention you can't hold a decap by spamming normal staff 3 since you'll roll yourself off node) Idk what to say about your condi dodge trait suggestion. It seems irrelevant and out of place in this comment, especially since caltrops applies cripple anyways.I know you play deadeye - and I think it has a fine place right now, hence why I didn't discuss it in my post. Your comment is not only all over the place and hard to make sense of, but it is also incorrect in almost every aspect, apart from pressure striking being never taken, but bountiful theft isn't even a must have for condi anyway as most run trickster.

+1 to this idea

no, the issue is the 4 cover condis applied with every dodge. every class has burst. weakening strikes is broken, having perma weakness on someone is extremely op. if you can't see that then your bias is preventing your reasoning skills. The burst combo is sword 2 steal with spider venom dodge port out.When in that combo is the weakness applied? The gripe that people have is the port in port out spammability of the spec. weakening strikes (while certainly a strong trait and something to be looked at in regards to staff thief) is not that consistently applied on condi and if it is it's because the thief is trading right on top of you and in that case you are either outnumbered or misplaying. Lotus poison will apply weakness (10s ICD), if it's the first "burst".yes but it's not a cover condi or from weakening strikes

no, the issue is the 4 cover condis applied with every dodge. every class has burst. weakening strikes is broken, having perma weakness on someone is extremely op. if you can't see that then your bias is preventing your reasoning skills. The burst combo is sword 2 steal with spider venom dodge port out.When in that combo is the weakness applied? The gripe that people have is the port in port out spammability of the spec. weakening strikes (while certainly a strong trait and something to be looked at in regards to staff thief) is not that consistently applied on condi and if it is it's because the thief is trading right on top of you and in that case you are either outnumbered or misplaying. edit for clarity - weakness is not applied from the dodge roll itself.

You would be wrong there, they applied the same theory to condi mirage and the build went from the most broken in the meta to "a good pick sometimes."The issue is burst, and the spider venom nerf is huge. Weakening strikes has very little impact on your burst and typically is applied before you steal sword 2, so it's not even a cover condi.As for the others, please explain how cutting deadly ambition poison in half and giving an ICD to panic strike doesn't solve any of the problems and or makes them worse.

The build: https://imgur.com/a/EVvxkByAfter months of reading suggestions on how it should be addressed I figured I might as well weigh in on it and share my thoughts about the spec, and other thief builds while I'm at it ( though that won't be the main focus of the post )Right now, the problem is condi thief is basically the way that condi mirage was on PoF release - it has a huge condition spike that can be applied instantaneously. For thief - having access to a low counterplay burst is indeed the purpose of the class, however as was the issue with the original condi mirage (being able to jaunt mindwrack someone for 8 stacks of confusion) it is far too frontloaded and conditions as anet has specified before aren't meant to be applied in burst damage. From here on I'll just list the changes I think should be made in order of importance to prevent condi thief from being so overperforming. Spider venomProblem: This is where ALOT of the spike comes from, having the 6 stacks that can be very easily applied by a dodge roll is just too overpowering for most meta classes.Solution: Reduce the number of stacks of poison delivered by spider venom from 6 to 4. Reduce the poison duration applied by 33%. Reduced the cooldown from 30 to 20 seconds. Panic strikeProblem: no ICD means that you can continue to apply poison by spamming sword 2 ( I believe this to be the main reason why people detest this build so much )Solution: Give it a 5 second ICD to prevent poison from being applied if someone were to spam it. This is particularly devastating to the condi deadeye build, that spams the rifle immob for poison.(this also prevents the immobilize on 50% targets poison to also proc if you infil strike to a 50% target. basically: before: Infil strike to 50% target - apply 4 stacks from panic strike. after: infil strike to 50% target only 2 stacks applied.) Deadly ambitionProblem: rewards more passive gameplay with a longer condition duration and higher icdSolution: Reduce the stacks to 1 (I read ben's suggested change and I think a 10 second ICD is overkill if these other changes are also implemented) These are the big 3 in my opinion, and changes to these will prevent the spec from overperforming, while not affecting any other thief builds.PLEASE IGNORE PEOPLE SAYING TO REMOVE IMMOB ON SWORD 2 That will be the death of power SD thief, a spec that is already quite terrible as is, and the panic strike nerf I suggested earlier will completely negate the damage from it. @CMC @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"If you are reading this - please be aware that the BIGGEST gamebreaking spec in the game at the moment is staff thief. Please refer to either the past two monthly vods which can be found on jebros stream to see how ridiculous the spec is.This is what deserves your attention it can stall any 1v1 survive outnumbered vs triple DPS for an absurd amount of time and does decent pressure to boot. It is the reincarnation of bunker Mesmer. REMOVE JUMP STAFF 3 OR LOWER EVADE DURATION By spamming it you can evade permanently with no vuln frame, and weapon swap for more initiative using quick pockets. This is tandem with staff master allows for permanent evade uptime. On a side note - I hope that some of our older more skillfull thief builds get some love. Power SD and Power DP are very underwhelming and pitifully weak at the moment. DP has devolved into a one shot burst gimmick build and power SD struggles to do anything well apart from focusing mesmers or guardians.I'd be happy to share my thoughts on what would bring these builds back while not being OP but i'll just share one and save the rest for another post. Thanks for reading. Dash Dagger PistolProblem: 600 swipe range makes it very difficult to +1 efficiently and land burst consistentlySolution: Add the "long reach" trait back into trickery. It was a trait that increased steal range back before HoT. Replaces lesser haste (this trait was clunky already since getting a stunbreak while hitting somebody is slightly counter intuitive.)Long reach: Increase steal or swipe range by 600. Your next attack will result in a critical hit.

Please vote for which you prefer to both play, and play against.RIP Dragonhunter, Tempest, Reaper, Chronomancer, Daredevil (DASH DP), Berserker, Scrapper (ur not missed), Druid.Oh Herald I didn't see you there how have you been doing?Daredevil you're condi these days? you're ancestors would be ashamed but I'm glad you're still kickin it.Can we give some love to some of the really cool and well designed elite specs that never see the light of day in plat+?

Actually staff daredevil is arguably the most broken thief build at the moment, you can win or stall every matchup in the game and live outnumbered exceptionally well.I personally detest this build as it is very spammy (jump staff 3) but you should know that both the winning monthly team on NA ( I had to play it last monthly ) and EU both had a staff thief.There's also nothing wrong with sword 2 on power builds as it does very little damage but on condi the panic strike poison could probably do with an ICD.Also, a note for other commenters - if you don't see your build up there it is simply because I only listed past relevant PvP specs.Dagger dagger or pistol dagger fall off hard in competitive and won't see you past silver or gold tier without a serious rework.

I played staff thief because i knew they are braindead and can't rotate. As expected they pushed 3 people into me all game so why wouldn't i go for a free win? :^ Sorry it's hard to understand though, Katsumi. I know you get decapped 1v1 by Vaans's warrior on your staff thief but hey not like you had to do anything to get carried to your free crown :^ First the reddit thread after subbing for us now this? Cmon miazI don’t recall getting decap but ur not wrong that I didn’t have to do anything, that makes two of us tbh.I like when Mesmer is in the meta personally and it sucks that it gets bullied out this hard by thief but don’t act like this post isn’t biased af bc it is.

Hey Ben, can we expect the MAT following the one on the 19th to be on this same accelerated two week schedule?

While I agree that condi thief could be toned down, bear in mind that since scourge got gutted condi thief is the only thing that is keeping condi mes, holosmith, and rampage warrior from being totally dominant.If your not one of those three classes be careful what you wish for you because you may not like what happens if this spec gets hit too hard

This is intended for SPvP only.If you were on the balance team, and your job was to determine what the most viable thief build should be - which of the following options would you choose?Please help this post gain some traction and hopefully attention from the actual balance team by commenting. Thank you for voting

The op is upset he had to play staff thief in the monthly because his Mesmer would get farmed by Sind. Unlucky bud

I've been a Thief player since launch, and an Assassin player in Gw1 since before that.I have noticed that all the years I've played this class - It tends to get more forum posts and diehard haters than any other class. (except maybe mesmer) Why is that? It's really simple guys. It is wildly different than all of the other classes. It's way of surviving is entirely based around evades, ports, and stealths. It's method of dealing damage is fast and high burst. A player who mains warrior that could be good at dealing with holos, soulbeasts, or weavers, might struggle with a thief or mesmer because the tactic they were using to beat those other classes doesn't work as well. And so, this player gets frustrated, he or she feels the class is broken because it is able to do something the other classes can't do.And then that player comes here, to complain about it. But herein lies the essence of the issue. IT'S NOT THE SPECAnd no, before you tear me to shreds I'm not defending or debating any of the current specs. This post isn't about that - It's about bringing some awareness that no matter what the meta, no matter what the spec - whenever thief (or mesmer) is good - a lot of people complain. For the sake of the argument - let's take a look at DP thief. It is now regarded as a skillful thief spec, but years ago when it was still viable I used to read forum posts about it much like the ones you see here. A few trigger words that I saw then and see now is "evade" "spammy" "stupid" "brainless".It's just the way the class works guys, It uses initiative so it's "spammy" - it's squishy so it evades and ports, it has low sustained pressure so it bursts hard, it can't hold a node so it can run across the map and take one back. These are all things that make thief what it is, and i'm tired of reading posts saying that's not how it should be. The entire purpose of a class system is for each and every one to be different, and have their own unique role. My advice for PvPers who struggle with thief, and any other class for that matter - give it a try - you'll learn how they work and what to do against them. And if that's not something you want to do then use the 60 seconds you are given when you load into a match to counter spec if you see something you struggle with.I realize there's a lot of trolls on the forums, but if there are any reasonable people out there reading this - don't give clout or credence to the people who come to the forums to purely complain about any class in a negative, nonconstructive and uneducated manner. For example, look at the title of the #1 trending holosmith thread. Why is a post like that the basis for constructive conversation for holosmith when the main issue of the class is entirely misdiagnosed?That's all for now. Thanks for reading.

In general when I look for a duo partner I prefer something that can handle the classes / specs that I don't deal too well with.For example, as a condi mirage you may struggle with thieves so a holo would be a good partner since it can deal with them for you.

I mean they tried pvp before but not enough people cared about it. Not trueSeason 1 proleague had tens of thousands of viewers but this was on release of heart of thorns when revenant and bunker mes were so broken that matches would literally end with scores under 100 points ( triple bunker mesmer tempest rev ) actual esport sponsors (c9, ect ) were looking at this game seriously until they saw how scuffed the meta was. And before that early LAN events created alot of hype around the game and made pvpers and wvwers care about being good and keep playing the game.At this point to say that not enough people care about PvP is just so false - given how WvW lost a huge chunk of its playerbase to the mount update PvP actually had a big spike in players for awhile - even a quarter of the money used for roller beetle racing would have brought back a lot of player and we'd be looking at a much healthier game rn.Here i go feeding a troll, but yeah thats how it is.

I’m sure it’s hard to have nothing but bad news to give but thanks for doing it anyway

I’ve played since gw1 prophecies and never before have I felt so abandoned by this company.I mean seriously, how hard is it to put monthlies back? What’s so challenging about adding Swiss format that it’s taken years? We talked about Swiss on release of monthlies. Why can’t ToL’s be a bi-monthly activity? The coding and reward boxes are already made. Just use a monthly format and change the rewards. The sad part is what anet may not realize is that while pvpers might talk a lot of sh*t they love this game, enough to play it every day and take it seriously despite it all, when there are so many competitive options who’s main goal is to foster a healthy competitive player base.Yet 99.9% of anets resources go to the players who install for the newest living story, cop a mount skin, then uninstall until the next update. Truly sad, if it took a monthly subscription to make anet realize pvpers care and invest in their game mode I would pay it in a heartbeat.

Lmao with that argument you might as well shut down seasons entirely. You really think you’ll have people match manipulating for an extra couple gold and a pip?This OP has a nice idea to encourage the average player not to give up when their match looks unfavorable and unfortunately it’s being wasted on you brainless forum enthusiasts.

+1 this is a great idea

I'm assuming that obviously it isn't fixed yet but if we could get an update like we did before that would be good.We're losing a lot of active pvpers atm anet, leaderboard this season is incredibly dead and server rooms are all empty afplease do something