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momophily.3814

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  1. Ok let’s change the language used in this discussion, I think a lot of us are getting wrapped around the axel (on both sides) when we consider specific examples… let’s not do that. Let’s try the big picture discussion. (in this discussion) We shouldn’t care about how a class/spec performs in a 1v1 or 1v2 scenario, in WvW you have large scale fights because of strength in numbers. The typical fight is with a group of 15-40 players per side, that’s the frame of reference. And each will ideally operated in parties of 5 players within the larger 15-40 player group. How the meta operates in that setting is what we are talking about. Not, how you can win in a 1v1 with or against a Scourge. A Scourge roamer isn't breaking the game. Looking at the previous boon share meta everyone seems to reference: The defining attribute was a two Guardian per party base. Why?... Stability share, or to ensure all 5 members received stability (Stab) when in an engagement; with two guardians rotating for optimal levels of Stab. It also contributed to the groups Condi cleanse. But if you took a 5 Guardian party, you had a much weaker force then if you had 2 Guardian in a diverse party. Because the Guardian was a poor source of heals, and a sub-par source of damage. You had a point of diminishing returns. It was the part of the team , and contributed to your groups sustain. To move into post-PoF, we can look at the Guardian, Fire Brand (FB). Now you have a significantly greater source of Boon Share in the F3 tome, a substantial source of healing and Condi cleanse in the F2, and a significant Condi damage burst in F1. However, it has a system of checks and balances that only allows each player to perform one tome at a time. If you run 3 FB in a party you can have 33%condi damage, 33% heal/clears, and 33% boons (stab). Or 100% Condi damage, 0% heal/clears, and 0% boons. Or any other mix that will create a ratio of offense and defense (support). Meaning you can’t have everything at once, at full strength. Again diminishing returns and the need to diversify with other classes. And to stay objective, the F1 probably need a nerf as well. With the current Scourge meta in WvW, where is the diminishing returns? Where are the checks and balances? Where is the encouragement for diversity in other classes? There isn’t any, a party of 5 scourges together doesn’t have any substantial tradeoffs. Now that's not to suggest they don’t have counters, they have some. But a 5 Scourge party has high damage, high sustain (Condi clear/barrier), and the ability to mitigate your opponents defenses (boon flips). 100% damage, 100% sustain, 100% mitigation across the parties comp with no real loss in capability. Scourge scales indefinitely in a WvW raid comp until you hit the server cap. It has no need to take other classes with it. That is why it is too strong. Now I’m not advocating that it be nerfed into the ground. NO. But it also needs to sacrifice something and create a need for another class to fill. That is balance in this game. It is simply too good by itself. For example: you should be able to boon flip and give barrier while in a support role; but you should sacrifice extreme damage while you have that capability. Likewise, you should be able to do high damage, but not while negating your opponent’s defenses. The fact that it can do all 3 simultaneously, is why it is broken in larger group play.
  2. The problem with the counter arguments in this thread is: that thief, spell beaker, rangers, and engineers arn't defining the current meta. Stop and think about why you're seeing 17 scourges in a group. Have you even seen 17 of any class before in comp? Regularly? 20 players and 17 are running the same build? From a previous post, that team of a ranger-thief-mesmer isn't a broken mechanic in WvW, it actualy takes coordination and is useful in a limited number of scenarios. It works well. And takes multiple classes working together to accomplish something meaningful and effective. 17 scourges together don't even need to talk to each other. aimlessly following is extremely effective and unriveled. Also, do you have a brand new play that wants to run? No problem, put them on a scourge. They don't even need to read half the tooltips to be effect, just face roll the key board and good players die. You're right folks, i clearly see a balanced and well thought out class when i look at scourge.....
  3. Again, it may be counterable. That desn't deter from the fact that the scourge is still broken as kitten and overpowered compared against every other class and spec in WvW
  4. Besides the fact that you come off as an arrogant kitten hole in your post. I get how FB works and the advantage of multiple FB's rotating tomes. Even with the best counter comp, Scourge is still broken. I didn't say you couldn't beat them. What i'm saying is that scourge is superior to everything else when in a side-by-side. They need to be balanced out with everyone else
  5. I wasn't suggesting a limit to the numbers of any class, I was saying that your suggestion of "singling out" that many is impractical and not a viable solution. The issue is that it corrupts boons at such a high volume into such a high damage Condi, while the class also provides Fear as a hard CC. All three in combination excludes a counter from other players with our current tool kit. I can't stay in the fight because my stab was corrupted, I can't stand still because of the bomb, and I can't run because of Torment, I also can't clear the Condi fast enough and i'm running away from my group in Fear, and the number of stun breaks available is vastly outweighed by how many corrupt applications are available to the Scourge. And that is in isolation, I'm not counting the other classes in that situation. That's why it's broken. Your only current option is to run a dozen of your own Scourge or to run away from them, if you pressure you die....
  6. I agree with some of your points, but your not going to "single out" 15 or 20 Scourges? If they're were only 2-3 of them, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue issue.
  7. This build: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Scourge_-_Condition_ScourgeAnd those like it are absolutely breaking WvW. Simply put, this completely negates any ability to stay in close range (negating EVERY melee class/build). Not only does it rip Stability, Aegis, Protection and any other sustainable buff; but it flips and corrupts it into a damage. And not only does it make it a damage source, it makes it a high amount of Torment. So you die if you move, No One Stands Still Fighting Other Players! Particularly when in groups like 50 V/S 50, if you stand still then your standing in a bomb of red circles. This is BROKEN in WvW. Please, please balance this. I’m fine with a loss of boons and I appreciate counter play and hard counters. But running this in any kind of large numbers is an instant win for that group. And its inclusion encourages the play of only the Scourge over all other classes. It’s too strong because there is no counter for this. It has already corrupted possible counters for it, and now you’re running with a fear, bleed, torment and burn stack on you. WTF ANet?
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