[Teams]

10 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I'll explain exactly what it is that produces the weak argument against pvp teams, in an exact order of steps in how it psychologically developed a kind "stigmatic" point of view, that most people in the community hold to this day:

 

1. Back during vanilla when Esports was a thing, everyone was excited about 5 man teams. I don't remember hearing a single person complain about 5 man teams back then. There were all kinds of would-be try hard pvp guilds forming, and this wasn't just strong players either, it was also mediocre to weaker players wanting to get involved.
2. But come to find out, the try hard sweat wasn't just in forming 5 man teams. It quickly became apparent that voice chat was a requirement for a team to get competitive. I cannot stress enough that this is where the original split happened between people who liked organized team play and people who did not -> Some people had absolutely no problem going into a voice chat and they were good at socializing and communicating and getting along with people. Others found that they were awkward or didn't know what to say or maybe they raged too much or couldn't take feeling the frustration of others when hearing other's voices get so salty or maybe they just did NOT want to hear other people talking and would rather listen to mp3s. Either way, it created a divide between players who were willing and wanted to get into voice chats, and others who really began to avoid it. This created an ousting so to say, where players who were not willing to get into voice chat, began to get left out of serious team formations, as well as anyone who didn't exactly jive in the voice chat with everyone else for whatever reason that may have been. These kinds of people were dodged in favor of better personalities. It still happens to this day actually. You'd be surprised what people will tolerate in the /p chat, but they will not tolerate anything in a voice chat that even slightly rubs them the wrong way or is too boring. IE: Two Spellbreakers are both playing at 1500 rating. One of them is a quiet player in the voice chat who rarely speaks at all who prefers to listen, but the other Spellbreaker is loud and funny all of the time. The loud & funny guy will be invited to a group first before the quiet guy almost every time. So people began to identify & associate 5man team organization with voice chat use. For some people this was certainly not a problem, but for others it became a nuisance because they were experiencing unfavorable situations with voice chat use. And so began the big split in ideology of what conquest should be. When you ask them if they are pro or con 5man, they immediately associate that question with forced socialization standards via voice chat, which reminds them of a lot of unnecessary buzz that they'd rather avoid. The idea of disliking 5man teams began here.
3. The above is an oversimplification ^ There are different tiers in which people avoid social stigma. First you have those who don't like 5man teams because they avoid the inevitable "here is our discord". Then you have people who avoid 5man teams because they like to avoid any & all responsibility for their play in general, even if communication is limited to text. Then you have several others who avoid 5man teams because of assumptions they've drawn from the stories of others, or this fear they have of being judged, or plainly just excuses to be anti-social. I heard heard/read some extremely inaccurate conclusions as to why people avoid 5man team play over the years. It's amazing really.
4. The problem with players having a bad point of view of 5man play becomes exasperated during the era of the first new seasonal releases when bronze/silver/gold took over the old amber/sapphire/ruby. The first two seasons of the new format were actually guild team leaderboards if anyone cares to remember. Arenanet also made it during that era that either the top 10 or top 15 teams rated at the end of the season, were the teams who were allowed to participate in the ESL. Before this we only had organized tournaments for try hard teams. This was the first time there was a queue system to queue all day long, that gave try hard teams a reasons to mix queue against everyone else, and not just scrim in preparation for a tournament here and there. Boy oh boy did this rub people the wrong way. And it did not help that Arenanet had not yet added the algorithm function where 3-5 man queues would receive inflated base average MMR adjustments to accommodate the fact that most of them were always in a voice chat. So you had teams of 1550 solo off-voice queueing into teams of 1550 5man on-voice with no algorithm adjustment. Obviously the teams on-voice were winning most of the time and it pissed everyone off. The main psychological effect here, is that it made solo queue players feel like they were being forced to 5man queue or lose, and being forced into discord or lose, with no choice behind a preferred solo or team queue. During this time they had just removed solo/team queue and replaced it with unranked/ranked. We didn't even have ATs yet. So there was only one queue option that pitted all mixed queues together who wanted to complete achievements and play competitively. It is important to note that THIS is where the strong hatred for solo vs. 5man began. It actually began to develop flat out bias where solo advocates in the future would begin to completely ignore any rightful & accurate & justified reasons to reimplement a 5man game mode. But in a way can you blame them after what happened here? There was a lot done wrong with this initial release of guild team leaderboards forcing against mixed queues.
5. At the tail end of the guild team leaderboards and right when solo/duo seasons began, Arenanet did actually implement a new code that added a flat average MMR adjustment to 3 to 5 man organized teams. Essentially what it did is it made it so a 5man team of 1550s would be made to go against a team of solo 1600s, pretty much, and it actually works out rather well for those who have noticed the function in unranked, which is the only place the code is used now. However people don't remember any of this. They only remember the savage farming happening in S1 and S2 from 5man teams in a ranked mode before that code was added. Again, we are talking stigmatic memories of a time long passed, with a reluctance to acknowledge the way things have changed now, and how they could be changed in the future for the better. Now we are talking flat out bias.
6. Now we exist in a world of solo/duo only ranked. To the untrained eye or the apathic eye, it would seem as if this were the most fair way to go about things for several reasons. If I were new to GW2 walking into the scene now, I'm sure I would strongly advocate solo/duo queue over 5man queue in ranked, aaaaaall the way until I started noticing some things were not right here. Simply put, solo/duo only enables synch queue tactics. I don't think newcomers or casuals are quite exactly aware of how much match manipulation happens due to this, whether it is from guys in discord together synching or sometimes guys multi-boxing bots for throwing. Regardless, the solo/duo only format is a lie and a great illusion. What players don't realize is that they are still losing many games to premade teams that they cannot see. IE: The UI looks like their duo is with all solos, and they are against another duo with all solos. But in reality the duo on the RED team has 2 synched players on alts who came into the game and landed on the BLUE team, who are ready to throw the match for the RED duo they are supporting. All 4 of those players are in a discord talking together. This is called win trading and it happens much more frequently than players realize, even by players whom no one would suspect was using these kinds of tactics. Most of them use bots to do it actually, and don't even speak with other players about what they are doing at all. So nothing has changed here. People are still losing games to premade teams. The only difference here is that many people are unable to identify that this is happening, and these terribly lopsided blowout matches that they often experience are attributed to "terrible match making" and "low population" because they don't know any better. And then rather than identifying that being able to select your own 5man team is the only way to stop synch queue throw monkeys landing in your team, they continue to advocate solo/duo only is more fair, because they don't know any better. And then of course there are also those old memories of times long past, the old ESL 5man season 1 & 2 days, where there were no adjustments to 5man team MMR, to further solidify & justify how they feel, because they don't know any better. These players who so strongly advocate solo play need to ask themselves one very serious question: Would you rather lose to an actual team that was outlined and in front of you that you can see who is legitimately outplaying you, or would you rather lose to a team who is manipulating the match and making you lose by making your team throw the match? Think hard about it, as it is a question that should be asked and should be answered.

I can't help but to notice that what we are really looking at here in terms of who supports solo and who supports 5man organized, is a difference in level of awareness. People who are not aware of the depths of what is happening here in the GW2 ranked pvp scene are clearly people who have never went into a discord to see win trading being discussed quite publicly in a chat. They've never sat in a voice chat and listened to people as they performed it, and I'm sure haven't participated in it unless they were unaware it was happening. These kinds of players support solo/duo only because well, on paper it sounds deliciously balanced. But if they knew what was happening, they'd realize they were still against 5man premade teams all the time anyway, and that the only difference at this point in time between solo/duo and 5man organized, is whether or not they are able to SEE the team they are against and have a chance of beating it. The difference is that 5man organized allows players to block themselves from having synch queue throw monkeys on their team. They don't NEED to get into a discord, they can just LFG with other players they recognize, just as easily as they would for a T4 fractals. Let go of the old stigma, a lot has changed. At this point people just want to block themselves from bad joins.

 

People should advocate bringing back some kind of a 5man organized system, as it is the only way to fix the problems that largely plague this game, concerning match manipulation in mass, humans as well as bots. If players really knew, had witnessed with their own eyes, how bad this actually is in GW2 ranked, they would quickly shift their advocacy from pro solo to pro 5man.

 

This stuff is no different than a T4 fractal join guys. Don't make it something it's not.

Buddy please stop pretending that you know everything better than the people which disagree with you. You are talking like teamq dont have problems at all , where win trading and boosting is also a big problem for teamq only systems as can be seen in games like WoW.  As everything in the world both teamq and soloq has positives and negatives, dont act like teamq will fix all the issues in the world becuase it wont and it will bring issue of its own , which i pointed out to you previously couple of times so i am not going to repeat my self again. 

 

Quote

I can't help but to notice that what we are really looking at here in terms of who supports solo and who supports 5man organized, is a difference in level of awareness. People who are not aware of the depths of what is happening here in the GW2 ranked pvp scene are clearly people who have never went into a discord to see win trading being discussed quite publicly in a chat

 - absolutely wrong assumption.

 

Quote

Many people who are against the idea of "needing to form 5 man teams" are people who have never actually tried it more than once upon a time 4+ years ago

this is ridiculous assumption in my opinion.

 

Please stop with your ridiculous assumptions of what people are, because you are most of the times wrong ( and it is toxic and elitist). Most of the people dont have problem for having both , but teamQ only no please NO. In my opinion such system will reduce even further the pvp population and would be very unfriendly for new people and it wont stop match manipulation and win trading and it will promote even more boosting and paying to get boosted. You will still having people afking after first team fight loss which is happening in ATs too currently as a person pointed out in another thread.

 

If you want to have a constructive discussion about both systems i will be very happy, but assuming what people are just because they disagree with your point of view is not the right way in my opinion.

[Teams]

3 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

That's why there are dashes , means it not part of my response to you.

 

 

Okay

[Teams]

1 minute ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

I'd like to see it. 

 

If pro-team is wrong, then I would concede, but I can't speak for others.

 

 

-------

 

 

To complain about the same team always being in top....it is that way with MATs

What? Excuse me but i am not sure what do you mean. I never complained about same team being on top.

[Teams]

6 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

We are talking about lemons and grapejuice.

 

Is GW2 popular or not?

 

If not, then good riddance.

 

BUt, if it is, you can queue from anywhere and go about your daily stuff.

 

Losing a match, a quality match isn't as bad as being 500-0.

 

I doubt it would be 30 minute queues, like I said, in GW1 it was required and always popping.

 

A test one season could probably dispel one side or the other, especially if it was actually just a "trial", unlike what happened when we had teams.

 

Waiting for quality games is like going to a restaurant, it is better because it is not instant....but we can keep on with the microwave burritos we call pvp if you "believe" it will kill pvp.

 

Can't kill what is already dead.

I am all up for a test but i dont think that the result will be in favour of teamQ. it is generally much more fun to play with full premade group in voice chat than with randoms, but teamsQ only makes it much harder for new people to get into pvp , and such system has other issues which can be seen in games like WoW which have teamQ only.

 

There is a reason why game which has much bigger population than gw2 has such big wait times in lfg.

 

 

[Teams]

3 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

The argument against ranked being team based is weak and seems to be based on the idea that it is difficult to find teams

Yea thats why in WoW which have 4-5 times the population of gw2 you search 30 + minutes for a team just to loose 1 game and then start waiting for new one.

 

I am not against teamQ if it is in separated ranked from soloQ , but soloQ should not be removed because it gives much easier access to pvp for many people which dont want to wait in lfg.

 

Before i left WoW i made a small test and i saw that i spend more time in lfg doing nothing than actually playing the game and thats 1 of the main reasons i left , also the  WoW pvp community is asking for soloQ from years.

 

In my opinion teamQ only will reduce even more the pvp population of gw2

[Minion Mancer needs to get nerfed more!!!]

55 minutes ago, memausz.7264 said:

 

That's because deadeye itself is busted XD - stealth, stealth stealth, evade, evade, evade, blind, blind, blind, CC, CC, CC, pew pew pew, Death's judgement x3, repeat.

I dont think deadeye is busted, i dont have much problems with them as weaver, but to be honest i dont like thief in general because of how stealth works.

[This is fun]

1 hour ago, yanniell.1236 said:

 

That is just asking people to abuse it. What is stopping high ranked players to duoQ with a friend in an alt acc who threw a lot of games and is in silver or smt? 1800 player and 1250 alt friend = 1525. So the legendary player and his friend in an alt acc who is also a very skilled player are now farming 1525 rating people.

It is abused and i made a thread about it , but some high rated player defended the system and said that there is nothing wrong with it .... 

[Personal opinion]

5 minutes ago, MoonBootz.8390 said:

I love your entire comment, @razaelll.8324. i play in the u.s. and see AFKers, cheats, and bots in the majority of ranked matches i play in. i invite a guildmate into a party whenever possible because it really does seem to cut down on those *$#@!^$#%. i have a video of a cheater respawning in the same exact spot they were killed, just a second or two after they were "Finished." there is another player i see in matches every single day who stands at spawn most of the match, every. single. time. they don't even change character's or names. it's just so freaking blatant. other players and myself have reported them but they still show up every day, ruining everyone else's game experience. i love gw2 also which is why the botting problem is so incredibly infuriating. i LOVELOVE GW2 pvp but have begun searching for other structured pvp options 😢

I understand you, maybe you should try your ping in EU , because from my experience this problems are much more rare in EU.

 

I really hope Anet start addressing this issues, becuase they can be game braking.

[Ele Conjures]

1 hour ago, noobfest.2180 said:

Yes let’s give the most busted 1v1er (c weaver) another thing to abuse in PvP.  Vote Yes on proposition 666.

Prot holo is the most busted duelist currently

[Personal opinion]

Hello Anet,

If you read this i would like to share with you my opinion about GW2 pvp. 

First i would like to start with that in my opinion GW2 is a great MMORPG , it is designed to respect players time and allows players to focus on what they want to do instead of forcing them into content they dont want to do, I really love that about the game. I am playing about 5 mounts and i am mainly doing pvp, the class design is very interesting , the combat is unique and very engaging. I love learning different classes and builds. Overall for me GW2 is one of the best mmorpgs which i have played (the list of mmorpgs which i played during my 20 years of experience with the genre is long), congratulations for that. Here i wish to point out some things which i believe could be improved in future.

1. Class balance - in my opinion the class balance is very very decent (much better than the balance i have seen in other mmos), but there are classes which are overloaded with stuff (necro for example), while there are some which are very simplified as warrior for example.  In my opinion more frequent balance tuning should be done which will also keep people more engaged with pvp.

2. Stealth mechanic - in my opinion stealth mechanic is not well design in GW2 , stealth in general is very uninteractive mechanic with not much counterplay, so allowing classes to do their full burst from stealth without any drawback that they do it from stealth is not good in my opinion. If you give this classes to much dmg they easily become OP, if they don't have enough dmg they are just on the low end, so in my opinion if stealth is reworked to be a bit more interactive or to have drawbacks when damage is used in stealth it will allow actually classes which rely heavily on stealth to become more interesting and interactive and easier to balance. 

3. Match making manipulating - the match making system promotes match manipulating and should be improved in my opinion. I made another thread with more details on where i believe is the problem.

4. Win trading, afking - there are many situations where people just AFK in the beginning of the match , because they dont think the game is winnable or because they are wintrading, in both cases this people should be punished for their actions. Since your report system does not have any notification back if the reported cased is even looked at this leaves the impression in the community that you  (ANET) dont do much about people which are braking the rules in such way, people do this because they feel that they will not be punished at all.

5. PvP Modes - i love 5v5 conquest, but i also really like deathmatch offseasons, in my opinion more modes should be added into the game , because different people like different stuff. Some people prefer to play only conquest , other prefer to play only deathmatch, waiting week/months to play the game mode which you enjoy the most is not good in my opinion , thats why i believe more modes should be added permanently. In my opinion they can be added first only in unranked to see how many people will play them consistently and if that number is good then they can be added in ranked too.

6. Bots - In EU  during the hours i play i dont see much bots, but still in my opinion some serious actions should be considered against botting. Its same here as match manipulating, people do it because they can profit from it and get away unpunished. 

If more things come in my mind i will add them later. 

Best regards and stay healthy!

[Save PvP with EoD]

On 6/21/2021 at 11:54 AM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Move rating/badge icon algorithm to AT monthly seasons. Sorry it needs to happen. 5v5 premade teams is the only way to stop match manipulation in the traditional sense. Move all old ranked rewards to unranked. Leave badge/rating indication and AT rewards to ATs.

No please no

That will not stop wintrading and boosting if you dont believe me check WoW pvp at the moment it is mostly wintrading and boosting , so no please no

The main reason i started playing gw2 is because of the solo queue (and that i dont have to grind gear to be competitive in pvp) i am done dealing with team forming and waiting for forming a team, as said previously the soloQ in ranked is not the problem and by making teamQ only ranked you will open new problems and thats not the right way of getting rid of match manipulating, win trading, boosters and will hurt more the pvp population than help it in my opinion. For the rewards i agree since it will remove the bots

Also the ATs are at specific time , not being able to play ranked when you want but be forced to be online at very specific time will hurt the pvp population even more in my opinion. Also the bot problem doesnt look that big in EU as in NA.

 

[Save PvP with EoD]

18 minutes ago, Widmo.3186 said:

No, Im explaining in general for people that wanna see whats going on those statistics, if I wanted to explain this to you then Id quote you, no? Idk whats the deal with ESO but imo its higher in terms of numbers than gw2 but waaay below like FFXIV, WoW or even BDO. Although yes, definetly more similar to gw2 than to titans from the top of the list

Exactly 

[Save PvP with EoD]

26 minutes ago, Widmo.3186 said:

Hi, lemme show you something:

https://imgur.com/a/YxTzNnH

On the screen you can see estimated account number, active players and activity score. Before I start Id like to state two things - first, WoW and WoW Classic should be seen as the same game, also the activity score on WoW retail is so low because of how Blizzard handle Shadowlands. New patch coming in a week so it should change, how much idk, but will change for sure (also the first MMO so amount of created accounts is enormous). 

So, what we can see when it comes to gw2? ~0.5M players, while there are ~14M accounts. Its about 3,5%  of the playerbase that is still playing. On average of top MMOs its ~2M players and lets say ~28M accounts (counting WoW Classic instead of retail cuz this game has like 17 years, cmon). That makes 7% of players that stayed in the game during the years, double the previous number. And its the same story with other MMOs, not only the top. As you can see, GW2 is the game with the biggest amount of players that left the game and never returned (thats what those "Activity scores" on the right mean btw, im just making sure ppl understand).

On the list of top 10, gw2 has lowest number except for Destiny. You can spend your whole day jerking off to how good combat system this game has or how family friendly community and interesting story (xD), but numbers are numbers. And GW2 aint becoming any younger, I highly doubt EoD will make it anyhow better, even by 1 in activity score.

If you are explaining this to me i am well aware of the numbers i posted the site my self and i am well aware of their meaning too, but if you check the charts you will see that actually for example january this year GW2 had more players than eso according to this website, and what i was pointing out is that ESO is not on the level of population which WoW is and ESO was aways closer to GW2 in terms of population than WoW , so the claim that"gw2 is an ant compared to ESO" is simply wrong and you can dislike GW2 all you want but that does not change the stated above.

[Save PvP with EoD]

29 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

So, I can find a site immediately that disagrees with your pitch, and its a common theme.

 

https://altarofgaming.com/all-mmos-sorted-by-population-2018/

 

The article was updated Jan, 2021.

 

Looking at revenue might show which is healthier, but ESO has a steady stream of DLC and expansions, also their pop is split into different platforms as well.

 

 

 

They have no boosts. And the world isn't so small. 

 

If anything it's just like GW2 in terms of store, not a p2w shop.

 

https://www.newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/introducing-our-in-game-store

 

We'll have to see how it performs, but I got a good feeling considering it's not just an Eastern port, and Amazon is willing to adapt, given their performance history.

And i can give you one which my pitch is based on

 

 

https://mmo-population.com/#google_vignette

 

But since this games does not publish any official numbers this are only speculations

 

WoW had 7 million players during the lunch of shadowlands and i was one of them since then its steady declining so the link which you provided is outdated.

 

ESO was never even close in terms of population to WOW and was aways close with gw2. Currently ESO has increase of population because of new expansion you can check the charts in the link i gave you.

 

Same population increase will happend with gw2 when new expansion come

[Save PvP with EoD]

11 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

This game is an ant in the face of ESO and WoW now.

only FF14 is competing with WoW in terms of population.

ESO is far behind them and much closer to GW2 interms of population according to some estimations 

[Pvp is NOT CHILL]

3 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

The mode is plagued with Necros and bots.

Guards have stealth.

Warriors are pathetic non-threats.

Holos and Weavers can do it all, and toooooooo well.

Hahaha...took a dodge away from mirage...it's fixed...they only have extra invuln from signets and skills, and mirrors...and...and...

Condi thief is dawei....spam 3 until it resets....spam blind..kill war...haha...feel good....

Lay trap go stealth...move fast....hahah.....im so great....

Don't worry about projectile, we got 10 sec anti pro...and 30 sec cd...

 

Say no to power, say hello to condi...

 

PvP meaning is lost......

 

I don't care if gemstore bob wants to pvp and chill, his kitten needs to go fight some centaurs and raptors.....pvp needs the strictest balance and fairness.

 

PVP isnt a place to chill...

 

You should promote competition, because if its a place to chill, then ill just ffricking afk every match and read reddit...and chill....

 

If you dont like it dont play man, but afking and ruining the game for all other 9 participants , just because of your personal problems with the game is selfish and arrogant.

[Save PvP with EoD]

3 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

SPVP should 100% be teams only.

No, it shouldn't.

[Rune of trapper....It isnt about the stealth, it is about the balance]

5 minutes ago, Exile.8160 said:

I keep saying this, the build is easy to fight once you know how but people rather scream neft than l2p.

That can be said basically for every build in the game, but i agree with you that people prefer to call for nerfs instead of learning and improving and i am against removing trapper rune

 

In my opinion the problem is the way stealth work in gw2 , it makes builds which have stealth very uninteractive.

[Minion Mancer needs to get nerfed more!!!]

29 minutes ago, eksn.7264 said:

 

I also don't like when devs liberally nerf things, but you also have to consider that some things are just the result of bad design which can't be fixed with nerfs because at their core they'll always be unfun to play against. Usually this is when reworks are warranted. I'm not arguing that MM necro is such a design, but it's for sure more on that end of the spectrum than some other builds.

you are right.

[Minion Mancer needs to get nerfed more!!!]

22 minutes ago, eksn.7264 said:

 

The difficulty is only one aspect and not a bad thing in itself, but when you combine it with an AI build with unfun mechanics it becomes a problem. Also no they're not that easy to kill if they're good which is the reason a few high level players can make it work at the highest bracket. Most duelist specs don't have a good way to kill the minions outside of like fire weaver, and even then it's far from an easy matchup played at the highest level (which I'm not, but have seen). For the average player, a build like MM necro can suck all the fun out of PvP which is the bigger issue when you're already bleeding players.

True i dont argue with that, my concern is that people want it deleted , nerf it in unviability which is what i am against , same as trapper dh. Adjusting this build to be less annoying but viable is what i advocate for.

 

I never played mm necro but i am just against nerfing builds into oblivion

[Minion Mancer needs to get nerfed more!!!]

54 minutes ago, eksn.7264 said:

 

Compare a build like this to bunker rushing in StarCraft II. It was a low effort/high reward build but in the hands of a grandmaster player it was a completely different beast because of sheer optimization and mechanics. At that point you can argue that there is skill involved, but for 99% of players it was not the case. They simply did it because it was the lowest effort to win ratio strategy. Same thing applies to MM necro.

I agree completely that its very very easy build , what i am pointing out is that its not that hard to kill it if you want to and that there are other more concerning builds in my opinion

[Which specialization do you feel is the most balanced?]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And I can't take anyone serious who thinks the current CC spam stunlocking has a place in PvP.

PvP stands for player versus player, not player versus rag doll.

 

And META builds don't mean anything if the problem for the majority of players lies elsewhere.

META isn't what a game ought to be designed around. The average experience, which is massively hurt by the current condition spamming, is far more important, as that's what affects the vast majority.

In my opinion the lack of will to improve is what hurts the majority. It is easier to ask for nerfs instead of improve.

[Minion Mancer needs to get nerfed more!!!]

1 hour ago, zuluDanny.8170 said:

You're right it takes zero skill. I also hate this build, it needs to get deleted from the  game. I really hope Anet for listens to the community because, everything you've said is true. Too many Apes playing this build atm. Number 2 or 3 on NA playing this noskill require build.

And they are number 2 and 3 because of the build not because they are good players right?

 

I understand that the build is annoying but also not that hard to kill so maybe  if you try to improve your gameplay and you will see that MM is not a problem, try to fight it as deadeye and you will see how fast it goes down.

[So when are pets gonna be put at a reasonable level?]

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

 

I get your frustration, but lets take a step back and consider the context here. Ranger is a mid to mid-high tier class in current patching. It's not blatantly overperforming in the same way that Holo, Scourge, or (arguably) Renegade are atm. We've also seen a lot of... emotionally charged nerf posts in the past that have inspired some less than ideal changes. Many of which to the ranger class itself. 

 

Even if you're not a ranger main, anyone with an investment in more than easy matches or seeing their own class succeed could be forgiven for looking at ranger and saying "There's nothing immediately problematic here". This is regardless of whether or not pets actually are OP. 

 

There doesn't have to be malicious/selfish intent behind it.

 

In regards to your other point... I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "Value's reward too highly". I'd rather not argue a completely separate point than the one you're making. Are you saying that landing pet skills are too rewarding proportional to the effort/risk? Or that the reward is simply too high in relation to the rest of the game?

 

If it's the latter, that does bring us into a discussion about Ranger's "Power budget" and where power has been allocated within the class. 

 

The idea is that Rangers (sans pet) are weaker by default than every other class. This is because part of their power budget was invested into the pet. When you add on the pet you have a complete class. 

 

This also means that, you can have moments like the ones you describe that feel unfair to play against. Even if pets are only 30% of the ranger's overall power, if that 30% is delivered to you in spike damage (you take a 5-7k spike, and then the damage falls off to the level of a weak DoT) In the moment that 7k spike hits you the natural response is "wtf is that. You get to deal relevant damage while also having a pet that crits for 7k? That's absurd". 

 

This ignores every moment where the pet was gaining effectively zero value because it was either out of range, dead, crippled, or aggroed onto something useless like a mesmer clone. The moment that spike hits that's the moment that sticks out in our mind. 

 

The way I see the situation. Ranger isn't OP. Pets aren't OP, but because of how the budget of power was set up and how it's delivered, it can create moments that feel OP, even when the reality is that Ranger is outclassed in most situations. 

 

 

Very well said in my opinion

[Is it bad to play ranked as a mediocre/learning player?]

3 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

 

These are excellent ideas to record the matches, thank you for suggesting. I also like the idea of duelling mentioned above, I have done some of that with my friend and interestingly I was most learning experience against the same class.

 

 self-reflection regarding match choices appears as indeed the only way and toxic just needs to carry on I guess. I still hope one day mods will see my reports heh

Glad you like it mate, also drop me a pm in game if you want some 1v1 practise or to do some duo queue