Riaenvyr.2091

If You happen to be actually curious about the answer, here are a couple of pages to peruse: If not, and we're just sparking another wildfire, lemme grab some popcorn to grill 'n chill.

Yes. I'm arguing in bad faith by trying to understand You. Sounds legit. What was the trigger word? "Insecure"?

If it's taken out of the context, most certainly. But the idea was exactly to point out that no matter how many people dislike me, my words won't become less true solely on the basis of hate.

Never thought I'd ever quote my father's songs, but here we are; "slepému farby nevysvetlíš" - can't explain colors to a blind man. But having a summary on each page raises the chance of people seeing something of note instead of the flood of back pats, doesn't it? Thus, en garde! Once more. And I'll respond to everything, even though several of Your points "against [my] proposal" are literally quoting my own statements, which I haven't yet decided whether I should be flattered by because You agree with them, or because there's so little to argue against in the first place that You had to shoot Yourself to make the score look more impressive. Will get back to You once I figure it out! - a F2P game isn't free to make or maintain; people who don't pay for services of entertainment they're using are leechers at best and thieves at worst - also, some people can't afford personal jets, how is that an argument? - varies from person to person, and also depends on whether the game has enough compelling rewards to get regardless of the cash shop because Newton's first law of motion: an object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force; people function basically the same way - unless they feel bad in the moment, they loathe changing anything, no matter how beneficial it will be in the future, which is why smoking, obesity, and global warming, to name a few, are such deadly issues nowadays - some people don't; eye for an eye - again, some people don't; tooth for a tooth ~ also, putting previous three points into a fourth point just to make the list look longer might work on high school teachers, but such people shouldn't be in charge of bringing up the future generations to begin with, so that's -50 DKP for trying to impress ME with high heels (unless You're Liana Blackburn, but that's more about the enthralling passion) - there are only two guarantees in life: death and taxes, as the old wisdom goes, the former, ironically enough, looking much more vulnerable to defeat than the latter, but such arguments of semantics have no merit; yes, invoking absolutions is pointless, what does it matter? - in the more realistic sense, there actually is a guarantee, granted ANet's goal is to be profitable for more than the first month, because since a monthly fee is an added barrier for entry, people must feel like the content is worth it to come back for - yeah, the question is what came first - the egg, or the chicken - because, as meaningless as words are to companies, every business always follows money, 'cuz capitalism, and nobody would ever start a project with the assumption that it's meant not to work, not just for maintenance or updates, but that people require to literally avoid content with the intention of hoarding it, so it can last for a longer period of time; once it's forced by the playerbase, tried, and actually shown to work, sure, but to begin with such a mindset is ridiculous - first page, 20th response (21st post, including the OP) - I was the first one to bring this very point up, so You'll have to explain to me how exactly is my proposal going against my proposal, because precisely as I said F2P and sub-based games have different structures, I also pointed out that the entire playerbase would most probably be completely different - the point of contention was never that the Gem Store exists, or that we're officially able to trade in-game gold for a premium currency, but that the items awarded through gameplay are purposefully made to be of lesser quality to incentivize using the Gem Store; once again - the path, not the destination - some people don't; what's next... kidney for kidney? - but since I got bored of this - still valid - argument, look at it this way: logically, the only reason why gold farming would be preferred by the company to support in lieu of in-game rewards is revenue, because getting stuff people like through gameplay means nobody would buy stuff from the Gem Store, 'cuz why would they, which is the company's singular way of avoiding being disbanded, very bluntly showing that the quality of people's experience is, as Obtena pointed out, virtually irrelevant to the company as long as they're getting paid, and no harm, no foul - that's just the nature of the beast named capitalism, just looks pretty weird that somebody would actually defend that they're being fleeced - another one of those word-for-word things I've said before, even in the very same first post of mine in this thread, and just as such I've nothing to say against it, except... I have to repeat myself for everybody new who comes in too late to be able to be bothered by reading everything, why would You repeat me for myself so I repeat myself about repeating myself? I always liked the idea of having a hall with mirrors on each side to create an illusion of infinity, though... Hm! They're not invalid (save for those few that aren't criticisms at all), but once an idea is proven false for one reason or another, it doesn't stay relevant. It's been tested, drawn, quartered, cremated, and the ashes scattered by the wind. People looking to learn shouldn't run around, catching random specks of dust and inhaling them with devoted reverence. The useful thoughts are kept, the outdated ones are discarded. That's what I'm here for: progress. Standing still never solved anything. You're so insecure about Your own arguments, however, that every single of those points referring to people uses "some". Which is, in truth, a good thing, because it clearly shows that You're arguing for the sake of arguing or to get in the good graces of the community, and not because You're a moron, denoting an issue of emotional magnitude, not a lack of intellect. Doesn't mean I'm going to applaud the decision, of course, but I can be much more sympathetic. To You personally, that is. The arguments will get the same treatment as always. Is this a reverse ad hom? Still have to wonder what causes some people to break down and seek any comfort available while others take the spite in their stride to push the fight through the tide. Heh. Words worth chanting to a march's rhythm. ...Horrifying.

That's entirely correct, and exactly as irrelevant. The popularity of an opinion has no bearing on its validity. You can get Your whole crew screaming and shouting that gravity doesn't exist, and You still won't start flying. So if the goal of a discussion is to change, suggest, or simply even discuss different perspectives of something, ignoring every "I don't like it" is the sole logical course of action, especially if the reasons have been debunked over and over again and the next response is "I don't like you". In simpler terms, Your community means nothing to me. The ideas do.

That's why You tagged me, to "let it die"? 😄 Come on, I'm just patiently waiting for something worthwhile to show up, there's absolutely no need to play an enabler. Not like there's anything new to respond to here, anyway. It might've very well been a troll comment. Just like everything You've ever written. But the origin of an idea has absolutely nothing to do with its value. That's why we can entertain, understand, and dismantle arguments of people we hold dear. And why ad homs aren't a valid point to make. The only thing Aodlop risked was inaccuracy, which was brought to light and corrected. There was this thread a couple of weeks back bringing up the idea of the armor designs in the game beings sexist, which was almost unanimously torn apart to be a troll, because Jadea happened to post it on April 1st. Sine misericordia. I guess You've heard of the Infinite Monkey Theorem by now - the idea that, given enough time, a monkey typing randomly would eventually write Hamlet (or anything, for that matter). Would it be any less of a Hamlet? It would, duh, but Aodlop's punctuation is actually quite on point. You, though, @voltaicbore.8012, You sounded like You've had Your own head on Your shoulders. Guess I was proven wrong in this thread for once, after all. Well, no, Obtena hurt more. Must be the profile picture. But at least I learned not to take anybody's word for anything, hm? I'm not somebody who would break beneath shouts of people who can hardly blow out a candle in their own outstreched arm, and You can bet Your squad's cherished pitchforks that I won't stop standing up for truth just because somebody refuses to comprehend or admit it, and most certainly with no lesser flair. The world is cruel. It doesn't have to be ugly. You know, it strikes me as utterly beautiful how absolutely impervious some skulls are to any questions about their beliefs. And I'm the one getting flamed for calling this community a hivemind. Could've at least taken basic chemistry, colored the flames a bit. A lot has been said over those 18 pages. Whoever gives a bag o' beans will read at least 'till the part where the holy cavalry arrives and starts bashing the heathens, which is, what, the second page? I'm saddened that the discussion here isn't active since then, although simply watching a master of his craft at work is always a delight to witness, AND there could be something to be gathered from his numerous defenses thanks to the more detailed insights, regardless if it looks like he's styling on a gang of toddlers. To be honest, the third person perspective feels horrible, but what would I not do for such a wonderful audience?

Of course I don't, that's why the quotes exist. I talk to anybody who comes in and challenges my ideas, because why wouldn't I, which usually means many people and, therefore, many ideas at once, especially with so many virtue lighthouses around who don't have much to say except "Burn, heretic!" You know, they might not be exactly creative in their assaults, but I just can't let them all down in the same way. Call it a character quirk. But such people wouldn't be able to look me straight in the eyes due to those gnarled spines, so there's no real and lasting impression left, even if they were to throw themselves at me with all the logical force they could muster combined. You think I'd need to iron my shirt after that grand total of a single - but very passionate! - newton hit me? Can't look bad at the funeral of their mindless rage, now can I. If I wanted to say that I think the Gem Store is bad, I'm pretty sure I'm narcissistic enough to do so with a flair and a flourish. Wasn't that Your idea to begin with? 21 341 AP, almost 7500 hours played. But I know You're asking just so You can validate more of Your ad homs, because, precisely like with questions about age once somebody starts losing their ground, the sole point is simply to discredit an idea based on nothing even close to logic. "You're too young, You don't know a thing yet!" or "You're too old, You're so out of touch with reality at this point!" You're neither the first, nor the last, and certainly so far nobody worth remembering. So by all means, give it Your best. You couldn't insult Yourself even if You tried. Well, judging by Your arguments, at least not intentionally.

But... why not both? Why would You voice just a total obliteration - or deportation - of those entertained by something else than You? What would be keeping ANet from putting the lowest amount of effort to add, say, a different pair of horns to the newest skyscale skin and put it as a reward for something specific, like the DRM challenge mode achievs, or even a brand new challenge mode for the CMs, say, a 100% healing reduction? A simple instance-wide aura, and everything else could be kept the same, sans, perhaps, a thing against WP shenanigans, turning those to Contested as long as the boss has less than 100% HP? Wouldn't hurt them, wouldn't hurt people who feel like blue is the only real color in the world, and that tiny number of people who keep crying about gameplay would have their hands full with joy. Nobody wants to change the game. We wouldn't be here if we didn't love the game to the point of care. But if Your girl starts to cut herself, You don't break up with her 'cuz she's mad. You ask her what's wrong, no?

You know, considering how easy the game is, I can't with clean conscience argue against the "good" and "appropriate" rewards; we're required to do nothing else than press two buttons, it's totally fitting that the prize for such a glorious achievement hasn't even read about quality being described, not to think of possessing any. I've explained everything before. One more time won't make any more difference, will it? Shikashi... The black-and-white mindset, the blind trust to the overlords' grand plan, the absolute unwillingness to even consider questioning anything, the visceral aversion to admission of mistakes... Hell. If there's one thing that towers about any other when it comes to miserable upbringing, it's the fact children can't defend themselves. Throw a thousand of these threads at me and I'll most probably come out even more driven than before. But what's a new tiny-human to think without their own arguments, without the ability to read between the lines, without experience and perspective? ...without the vorpal defiance to stand up for themselves. So many wondrous dancers, so many passionate dancers, so many promising dancers... crippled by people who keep hammering into their heads there's only a single rhythm in the world. I was going to start with saying how much the conformity of Your post burns my rebellious veins, but it would ring very hollow without the prologue. I have nothing against You. How can I? But whoever decided to gift You this "obedient soldier" manual should go /dance in front of one of Abaddon's statues.

Where do I put the Gem Store stuff? It's enlightening, I just have no clue how it fits anything I've said in the quoted post. Blizz learned that through the absurd success that was The Burning Crusade AND the golden age of WoW - Wrath of the Lich King? Or You mean the flop Cataclysm was, because Blizz nerfed it to the ground so people don't feel like they have to play the game? Pandas were decent, as I've heard, but then Dailylords of Draenor hit all the "sweet" spots, with Legion being praised to high Argus again. Haven't heard many positive things about BfA or Shadowlands, even from Bellular, and he's about as passionate for WoW's hope as WoodenPotatoes is for Tyria's. Well. Was. Pretty sure the only terrible model Blizzard learned of was selling their integrity to money... and Activision. BuT dOn'T yOu GuYs HaVe PhOnEs!? Not like there's enough real Blizzard nowadays there to hold the solemn vigil. I have no idea how everybody comes to that conclusion. The title says "I would play GW2 more if it was a subscription-based MMO." I see there's a word "subscription" in the title, so the rest of the sentence is probably null and void by then, and even if a person looking to spread some hatred to balance out Eva Green's beauty makes it to the actual post, there's also "sub-based GW2" right at the beginning, which means that nothing, regardless of the amount of the word "sex" used, would catch their righteous attention anymore. But the post is elaborating on the titular statement from the standpoint of wishing for rewards being available through gameplay, and the game having more "real" goals for players to work towards, again, for the sake of incentivizing actually playing the game. Sure, claiming that all things from the Gem Store as they are now would simply be available for achievs and the like isn't true, but there's much more nuance to literally every single aspect of the debate than just to crucify Aodlop for suggesting such an ungodly idea. I still think the original post was more a sigh of disappointment than even a semblance of a suggestion, but perhaps I just see way too much more through this faithful helmet than intended.

No, I admit what I said: putting GW2 in its current state behind a monthly fee wouldn't accomplish anything. But that's been said by Aodlop in the very first post already: "I just wish more rewards were unlockable in game. Sadly, this can't happen with their current business model, and to me that's a shame." We're talking about in-game rewards, their quality when compared to the Gem Store stuff, philosophy behind everything involved... And I keep saying that the subscription model gets dragged into it just because people come in, don't read a single other post - apparently not even the first one - and just go on a "SUB FEE IS BAAAAAAAD" rampage. Then somebody pitches in with an explanation why this isn't about a sub fee itself, and the response? "SUB FEE IS BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD". What's there to do with such people?

Hah, I wish. Perhaps - perhaps! - if it's been here from the very beginning, but at this point it would do naught but decimate the playerbase. I'm sure there are people who'd conclude GW2 is worth a sub fee even in the current state, but I can't imagine they're numerous enough to carry the game through basically starting anew. Who knows? With better advertisement, better rewards, fixed everything... Even if ANet were willing to take such a leap of faith, NCSoft would cut them short in an instant.

The singular best and the worst thing about ideas is that they very easily spark other ideas, and trying to respond to each and the amount even after merely a few breaths devoted to their exponential growth is wondrously incomprehensible. It's not unlike trying to point out "which" of the wind's currents is currently fighting one's chest, and putting an open palm in front of oneself to catch it effortlessly spawns six other flows in a most elegant display of defiance against such a pursuit. A grin in appreciation. Feels better than finally completing Pharus. As for catching at least the name of the wind, if not outright its phone number, I've said (somewhere) before that I only started playing fairly late into the game's life, so I don't really know how the Gem Store looked at the original launch. From what I gathered watching TotalBiscuit's Beta coverage, the Gem Store was rather empty - dye packs, minis, Transmutation stones, a couple of real world fashion items like top hats and aviator/reading/wide rim glasses (proving that GW2 never had any artistic cohesion to begin with)... But that was just Beta, no clue about after the game's release. But if the Gem Store was as empty at release as during the Beta stages, that would more than suggest that ANet were counting with monetary sustenance for at least some time going forward without relying on Gems, meaning the initial plan was entertaining people. So, true, GW2 might've not been built as a F2P game, but it certainly is a F2P game now, because things evolve - players not liking the game leave, players enjoying it stay, the developer's analytics show which way the community leans, which turns into more things that people like... a couple of these cycles and the community crystalizes, with clearly defined contours and color palette, and the rest of the playerbase is an afterthought at best. Which is completely normal, isn't it? As Obtena said a couple of posts back, it's absolutely true that if the current monetization model weren't working, GW2 wouldn't be here after almost nine years, still relatively lively and kicking. People always have the ability to vote with their wallets. The fact they're not doing anything points at a much deeper flaw in today's society, not at a single video game developer owned by a larger company which probably limits many of the devs' decisions in the first place. The subjective part of... anything is arguably impossible to debate. Looking at the bigger picture of Your gaming style, You seem to have no issue with disregarding the optimal way of doing things in favor of enjoying the game. Not an insult in any way; I salute You. Took me many a frown - and spine straightening - to realize, and, although a quick learner, I'm pretty sure I'll end up with not merely a single line on my forehead with "supposed to" signed as the author. Live and learn, hm? Before I started playing to enjoy myself, though, there was always this weird nudging telling me that I should be doing something else, something that would bring me closer to the goal in a much shorter time - why bother going for Tequatl and dailies, if the two only award 4 gold, when I can be jumping the Winter Wonderland for so much more; why do map completion, if farming Dragonfall/Drizzlewood and turning the gold into gems yields many more keys per minute spent; and, the worst case, why play the game at all if working even for a minimum wage and buying gold with Gems is incomparably more efficient? There's something to be said about the last idea and games that encourage something of the sort, but... different shoes for different tunes. The idea is that I didn't choose it, not anymore than a football player breaks a leg. An absurd amount of psychological manipulation goes into every single thing being sold - MMORPGs are getting their autopsy here, but look at the big eyes and heads reminiscent of human babies on Disney princesses and in anime, or a beautiful young girl smiling from a billboard regardless of the goods being advertised, or why the entire pop music industry revolves around four chords and just slightly different songs. Not everybody has their wits about them at all times, especially during the forming years, and we all carry an astonishing amount of dead weight from those experiences that sometimes won't get noticed for the rest of our lives. I keep bringing up the idea of being wrong being wrong, but even something as "small" as being bullied by somebody with tattoos can twist a person's view of tattoos for the rest of their life, even though an intradermal pigment injection has nothing to do with anything whatsoever. And instead of trying to understand, we look for consolation in numbers, create echo chambers for ideas we refuse to confront, which leads to back pats and ignorance in the best case, or bona fide inquisitions in the worst. But here You are. Instead of a torch and a cross, You bring an explanation. The hell is wrong with You, human!? Granted, in case You ever need a sparring partner for a cup of tea, I'm game.

Heh. You happen to know Ayrilana, per chance? Virtually same taste in shoes. It's almost haunting! But since this isn't going anywhere, here's a recap, from my point of view: This isn't a thread defending the subscription model. This thread is about how poorly rewarded actual gameplay in GW2 is, and the wish ANet would implement rewards with quality rivaling the Gem Store items into said actual gameplay. The only reason a sub model even gets a say in this is simply because games with a sub model have such rewards. Do they also have a cash shop? Why wouldn't they. But that's utterly irrelevant. This thread also isn't forcing ANet to change to a monthly fee this instant. Which is apparent to me from the get go, but, for one reason or another, it feels much better to be a part of the cool guys shouting down the idea, because a sub fee is evil incarnate. Even though it's got nothing to do with anything. Aodlop even said they'd be okay with a compromise, as long as it meant more gameplay rewards, because that is the entire point, not meaningless simping for a sub. Grinding gold by pressing W and 1 isn't the same as soloing a legendary bounty. Unless you're using the "Just DODGE" Mirage build of Lord Hizen's. Then it's (Dodge)W1. Did ANet pivot towards the former? Obviously. And it's also keeping them afloat, so good on them. Doesn't mean the adjectives used to describe their game should change based on whether it earns them money or not. Slavery was alright not too long ago, women are still treated like furniture in more countries than is admitted. Does that mean it's alright? To hell with this logic. And the world isn't black and white. Absolutions invoked by imperfect minds are meaningless, regardless of the side of the argument. If you come into the discussion just to feel right, then you have no place there to begin with. And exactly because the world isn't black and white, people can learn and change their opinions, granted they're aware of the possibility of being wrong. Being wrong means there's more to ask, more to ponder, more to see... more to understand, not that a person has failed in any way. Perpetuating the idea of being wrong being wrong is either the most cretinous or the most malicious thing capable of being done to a curious mind. Don't do that - to yourself, or anybody else. Do stay hydrated, though.

Did I say it's bad? I was responding to Kharmin who literally said "I'm sure that Anet has professionals in marketing and finance who study the industry and can help guide the direction of the company for the most financial gain for their shareholders." I even agreed. Sure, ANet nowadays are far from trailblazers in any respect, but that's their choice, be it their own, or by proxy of NCSoft. The point I - and the rest of those who actually happen to read more than the most up-voted comments - am stating is that the gameplay isn't rewarded, not that I feel too wealthy and want to steadily give my money away. Could start smoking, drinking, or both to that effect instead, couldn't I. Might even bring much less physical harm than trying to persuade a company that customers are kinda a good thing.