ScottBroChill.3254

So i've heard. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Pay to win and bots aren't really an aspect of the gameplay and content, though. But yeah that ruins the game as a whole despite how good a game is.

So apparently I'm late to the party but just found out about throne and liberty. That game looks like what I was envisioning gw3 to be and it's also under NCsoft. Edit: visually

Nahh man, if I'm enjoying the game I'm trying to unlock stuff no matter what. There's still so much time to grind for the stuff you haven't gotten yet and accomplish more and the game is still getting new stuff. I'm not playing any game forever but I'm not going to stop gaming on mmo's for 5 or more years just because I'll be done playing it by then and playing something new. That's 5 joyless years. I'll be done playing most games I play now by then, too, so if I'm still having fun, I'm still playing.

@Cyninja.2954 Wows engine is the same, but again they rake in more money, have more players, have healthy stream content. WoW is a cash cow, it's not the same scenario. Guild Wars 2 is working on much smaller margins. Again it's succesful, it has a lot of players, there are whales that keep the game profitable, it's a fun game, but it makes much less money than the other games. The people funding the game just want bigger numbers. And you may know a lot of people who spend a lot of money on the game, but that's not the whole community. I spend money on the game for sure, but the average player is spending less money than the subscription based games. People still spend extra money money in subscription based games so it's not like it's a special financial advantage. It's a fact that it's profitable, but it's less profitable, otherwise they would have a bigger studio. And the pvp thing doesn't support you're argument. All it does is support that they spent less resources on it. They kinda just missed the moment to improve it and make it worth continually supporting and everyone left. They obviously aren't going to go all in on it anymore because it's much harder to pull people back from a bad experience and get new people than it is just retatining people. It would have been a smarter idea back in the day, but not now because guild wars 2 is no longer known for pvp. And I was just saying it was healthy for gw1, it provides endgame content without needing to constantly release new stuff. You could say the same thing about raids. But it's very noticable that big name streamers drop the game when there isn't high end competitive content, and those streamers are usually whales and they usually get other people to buy stuff and also get people interested in the game. There's a reason you see so many people on reddit that are like "I had no idea about this game, it's great!" But imagine how many of those potential customers are being missed because they don't see the game anywhere besides word of mouth. I'm not saying it's necessary to have strong pvp, just saying it has it's benefits, along with other competitive content. And it's not just that focusing on three game modes is the issue, it is extra work tho. But we can just see and look that they focus on a lot of temporary content that can instead be funneled into end game content. They have discontinued dungeons, a raid wing once in a blue moon, fractals that get less attention, dragon response missions that died off, strike missions, convergeances, bounty hunts, a lot of good metas and a lot of metas that just got left in the dust, etc. If we're talking about too many game modes, lets look at all the pve waste and all the new systems that are dropped. But pvp is also related to the style of the game and combat, they started off with no trinity. That throws off the dynamics of pvp when people don't have roles. Then they kinda shoved in a trinity after time that is less optimimal if they had designed around it in the first place. They took away premade teams which is just a shot in the foot to pvp, no one likes solo queing. Barely any pvp rewards, the ones they got now were added when it was already dead and the legendary pvp armor is just the ascended armor, same with wvw. I guess in my eyes the one glaring issue with this game is that it is just mindless pve content. I have fun playing it, but it can get boring fast. New maps and metas are cool, but they turn into the same old same old after awhile because they end up requiring no skill and barely any involvement. The original soo wan meta was awesome because you actually had to know your build, coordinate, and there was a high chance of failure. It made succeeding fun. I guess another thought I have about this is if NCsoft is pushing for a new title, then why? Is doubling down on the casual playerbase going to improve how the new game does in comparison to this one? My main focus would be on how do we get streamers and influencers more interested in the game to improve it's reach and market share which will ultimately get more people buying the game, expansions, and cash shop items.

People stick with mmo's because of sunk cost fallacy. Since they pay every month to play they have spent way more money on the game, there is much more invested than just time. To move to another mmo while the current one still garners that many monthly subscriptions would be more ridiculous than gw2 moving to gw3 because we don't pay subscriptions. The game is designed around playing it and then being able to stop whenever because there isn't a gear treadmill and once you've bought the game and expansions then you own it, no need to pay extra money just to access the game you already own. And yeah, every engine will become outdated eventually, but the only reason for Anet to try and make something with a newer engine is because they do risk more player dropoff than the other games due to the sunk cost fallacy. I haven't spend $180 a year for the past 20 years on the game. GW2 was designed to run on a potato when it was released, that's why fps is so bad when there's a lot of people because it's not optimized to run on current cpu's that utilize multithreading. They wen't from dx9 to dx11, but it was such a marginal difference it didn't do much on that front. I'm sure it allows them to due more, but it's still a fact. Something like black desert runs infinitely better with even better graphics. Gild Wars 2 thankfully doesn't rely on predatory spending, but it results in having to actually make really good content to keep people in game. They are working with 2012 tools. Well actually they are working with older tools because it's using GW1 engine. I'm not the dude this is the response to, but pvp was kind of fudged in this game. The original intent was to make Guild Wars 2 an esports mmo, but it didn't pan out. Guild Wars 1 was a heavily pvp mmo. The thing with pvp is that it can keep people playing without needing the subscription. Hardcore players love pvp and they love competition. Having more pvp means it's more exciting to stream. You can have actual tournaments people want to watch. Guild Wars 2 has a really small streamer base with only a few big names. This as well as a bunch of other reasons is why a lot of people don't really have the game on their mind or they think it's dead. It's a missed opportunity to keep hardcore players interested when theres a content drought, and to have free advertising that gets new players. And also GW1 was a small game. But look at the team they had at release, it was much larger than the GW1 team. So to assume they don't, or can't have the resources to make a large game is ridiculous. They get money from investors to develope a game so the developement team will be temporarily larger than it will be for maintening the game. And I really don't think it's safe to assume anything. Everyone's just spitballing what they like or don't like about the game. The reason GW2 studio is smaller is a direct correlation to it's success. It is a successful game monetarily and still profits pretty good, but it's a smaller studio because there's less reliable flow of money into the studio. The question is are we at a crossroads where they are weighing out the current profits with desired profits. Being that it was at a shareholder meeting, shareholders might think more money needs to be raked in and have approved of a new game. For the other mmo's it would be silly because they can have the subscriptions and can ride the wave on that even when they have a bunch of bad expansions. They're just a much more lucrative business model than Anet deliberately is against, which is great for us, but the studio is a business and takes profits into account. They might just being seeing more profits along the horizon and it's really up to the financers of the game to decide when it's time.

honestly if we look down the line 5 years from now, how old does that make all the big mmo's? pretty old and dated so if we are talking about gw3 going up against the big baddies, it won't be against them in 2024, but 2029. At that point there might be vacancy of of current gen mmo's. Everything will be so dated that pulling off a rewarding mmo with current graphics and systems would be amazing. I think there would be a place for a gw1+gw2 style mix that could corner a nice market. So gw1 world vibe I think was helped by it being instanced, you felt more immeresed with just your squad traversing the maps and it added to the preparation and strategy part of the game. Then add in the action-y combat of gw2 and movement and stuff and you got a less dated gameplay style that is more involved and fun. You could have a lot of content and end game content smashed into instanced style grouping, public or private, like strikes, convergeances, dungeons, fractals, raids, etc. but with it more focused with less game modes. Large scale wvw I think would have to be in it, I don't play it really but its incredibly fun and can be made better from the ground up with what they have learned. And better pvp, bring "guild wars" back to the game. And then also, I like the old way and classic way of having skill bars. I like the old limited amount of skills but being able to take anything you want. I think builds should be more modular and I feel like build crafting should be a higher priority. Player made thematic builds are fun, making builds in gw2 feels like trying to hammer a nail with a screwdriver. Sure you can eventually get the nail in, but it's janky. bring on the gw3 or new ip. Send it.

Love me some Guild Wars 2, but would also love a Guild Wars 3 or a new IP or something in the same universe but not the same rehash. I think gw2 was a home run, but no matter the game there is always stuff that is learned and with Guild Wars 2, they threw basically everything at the board and saw what stuck but now there is a lot of bloat in the game that definitely becomes confusing for new players. I love the wiki style interaction of playing the game because it just makes all the info cohesive, other games it's not as good. It's like a players manual and I dig it. And lets not forgot how old the engine GW2 is running out, I'm sure it creates a lot of limitations, especially in performance. But for me, I would like a change in how skills, traits, and professions are. I prefer a little more autonomy in skill selection and I feel like everything being tied to weapons kinda ruins some customization, and then it feels like trait lines and customization like that just lacks a lot of depth. For example, as an ele player the ele was designed to always be a jack of all trades, but with the attunement system it constantly makes the weapons funnel into each other and kind of forces the same thing over and over again because there's a lack of ways to modify how the attunements work, as opposed to like every other class who can have there class mechanics totally replaced with something new. Let alone not being able to specialize in one or two elements to create a good rpg fantasy. Traits are also a little wack because you can only take so many traits of a specific line and are forced to focus on three trait lines, and with so many useless traits there isn't a lot of build discovery. I really liked the guild wars 1 system that was inspired by magic the gathering, it created a lot of fun builds even if they weren't optimized. Playing spirit strength ritualist in pvp with a bow was just kinda funny because people just don't expect it and it could catch people off guard. The hardcore pvp was also really fun and required a lot of communication, having a few ele's time out their big skills to spike targets down just felt like you were playing basketball and then excecuting these cool plays and strategies that felt really rewarding to pull off. And let's be honest, waiting for monks or ritualist healers to be able to play wasn't ideal, but the trinity is a popular thing for a reason. Having a role is fun and in GW2 we now have a sorta trinity that was designed to be not a trinity that results in weird role identity, and the homogenized boons/conditions and no unique hexes or enchantments really takes away from class identity. But really gw2 is getting old, new ideas seem to be running out, there's limited weapons which kind of makes new weapons for some classes not make any sense but they're stuck with that system and now they have to figure out how to make hammer ele work, which I don't mind ele hammer, but there's no more casting weapons to add to them. They should have added different load outs for different weapons instead so for example ele could have like 3 different styles with the staff so it's not stuck being a useless piece of garbage that's a relic of 2012. But I love guild wars 2, it just seems some foundational designs, over time, have become limiting in how they can keep expanding the game. And I feel like we are nearing that mark with how new things are just kind of the same. I don't think thats exclusive to guild wars, but more so with any game that goes on this long. Computers have gotten better and I think it's worth looking at an engine that can run on a potato from 2012 and now look at average computers of 2024 and beyond and make it more optimized. 30fps in a city and large meta events is just ridiculous, it's something you get used to, but turning the camera fast makes it really noticable. On teapots stream, sneb was talking about how there's all these little things in the combat that the majority of players don't understand and there isn't anything telling them. Without arc dps, you won't really know you're just dealing 5k dps and that that's poor damage output. For most people it's a spam autotack game and that keeps people from actually learning the combat.

well I've been using pistol in open world group content and it's been not too shabby. Warhorn seems to be the best offhand for it. Being able to have a ranged option outside of scepter is nice, especially with less ground target abilities, easier to focus on catalyst fields. I liked playing catalyst as a buffbot with it, but weaver and tempest will get you more dps easier. The bullet mechanic does seem a little much, but like everything with ele it seems overly complicated at first but when you start to kinda know what the skills do it isn't the worst, but It does feel unnecessary. Idk, at this point I don't think it's a terrible weapon, it gives ele another option where its lacking which is ranged combat and feels a little better to play for open world group content than scepter. I think my biggest gripe is it lacks a cool factor, but it's fun enough to where I'll probably stick with it for awhile.

what in the world is going on here lol

@Tempest.8479 honestly you're idea for conjures is probably the easiest to implement and then you can atleast still use that stupid conjure trait without them needing to figure out how design another useless ele trait lol also, ele lacks offensive and aoe skills on utility so I like that you left that in. I think some people are failing to realize that something that sounds like fun fantasy and is conceptually cool doesn't always work in actual use case, especially with the playstyle and how the game is balanced. This whole idea of not being good enough to substitute for a real weapon, but still acts as a fallback weapon isn't very much a good idea, I mean that's what it currently is so I don't understand why others are trying to advocate in changing it to what it currently already is, and still no one uses them. No one takes ice bow for the lack of range because it's not good and isn't necessary.

But with unravel the point is about getting to attunement swap skills faster whether that be skill 3 of the main attunement or getting necessary offhand skills faster while also getting the bonuses from same attunement swapping, but it still focuses on weapon skills. I understand what you're saying, but they are totally different functions that get balanced differently, unravel doesn't lock you out of skills, just changes the access to them. And when it comes to earth shield, it had to get nerfed like every other conjure weapon, and it serves ele's strength in pvp which is just being unkillable, and that's a high contrast of what they do in other modes in which their builds won't have the same usefulness because outside of pvp, being an unkillable wet noodle isn't going to be very effective or add much to the team. And when you look at the other conjures, all of them besides flame axe used to be useful. So useful in fact that they were required or at least heavily desired for dps builds, and they weren't ever used as weapons to hold onto until the timer runs out, they were used as a couple skills and dropped. The earth shield is the only one you would hold onto because it allows you to just stand on a node in pvp, a role that is only useful for that purpose. You can use it for fun in other non serious content, but that's all that it is. The issue is that they have to be good enough to forgo having all the utility of your weapon skills, which there is a lot of. If they are good enough to do that, than the rest of ele will need to be "balanced" to take it into account. Engi doesn't have as much a problem with this because they only have the 5 weapon skills with no swap or attunement, the amount of utility they sacrifice is a lot less. their kits also act like weapon, if not better, in that they don't have to wait for long cooldowns to access it, so it can be a seemless transition in their build and don't have the same opportunity cost. They also get toolbelt skills so they have twice the utilities already which can still be accessed with a kit out, why ele utility skills are lacking hard which further puts more emphasis on weapon skills for basic needs. Also, engi kits are class defining, they are meant to be more prominent skills in the engi line up and almost assumed to have at least one with you at all times. This isn't something I want, nor I think most people want, from ele, because it does result in needing them for for builds and now you have the problem again of using a couple skills and dropping them again, but they go on cooldown unlike engi kits. I see 3 options. 1, Theyre so useful that you camp them which goes against ele design philosophy, and they are meta and ele is balanced around taking them so the rest of ele gets toned down to make room for them. 2, they're somewhat useful so you take them for 1-3 skills for a quick cast and drop like they have been in the past when they were "good", 3 they aren't as useful as weapon skills so they get ignored. Nobody wants to camp them unless you're an ele who doesn't actually like playing ele. Nobody wants to use them for a couple skills because it requires casting a spell in order to cast one or 2 spells and then wait for it to go on cooldown, and I'd be hard pressed to think people would actually like them behaving like kits because now you're just adding extra attunements to worry about and 20 skills is enough, let alone 25-40 skills. Or you have them nerfed enough to where they kinda aren't worth it and now we have 4 utility skills that are just wasted among a line up of already weak utility skills because utility is baked into the weapon skills. Earth shield was only viable for so long because it didn't add to dps really, it was just an unkillable bunker in a specific role in one game mode. There is a very fine line between if its useable and if it is required, and if you have a conjure weapon useful enough to forgo 4 attunments worth of skills I wouild think that's a little OP. There are already so many variables in ele balance, my opinion is that conjure weapons aren't worth the time and effort to balance properly because there is such a fine line in that balance. Theoretically there is a way, but realistically I think you'll get the same back and forth of too powerful and useless, or they become engi kits and now that's a staple in ele builds and ele's are now a 4 attunement + kit using class, which would only do the opposite of what they're meant to do which is simplify the playstyle.

the issue is so much is baked into needing your weapon skill available. For weaver you need to access dual skills and for catalyst you need all your combos, so for those two specs a conjure weapon will be nothing more than using one or two skills and dropping it. Also ele's survivability is baked into it's weapon skills so losing those becomes an issue if you're holding onto a conjure weapon for more than a few moments. I could see them making them useful for tempest and core, but using them goes against ele's inherent design.

I don't want to use a skill that takes away my 4 attunement skill bars, and I don't want those conjures being stronger than my weapon skills forcing me to use a convoluted process of getting acceptable dps. If ele had normal weapon skill mechanics with two weapons and 1 attunement or 1 weapon and two attunements I could see it as being useful, but with 20 weapon skills at all time I don't need another 5. The good skills on those conjures should be part of ele's regular weapons instead of taking up valuable design space for things we actually use. Switching to a conjure just to use a skill or 2 just feels gimmicky, and I feel the same way with engineer kits, but engineer kits I feel like get a pass because of kit mechanics of being able to go in and out of them when you need something. Making conjures into kits would make those skills feel a lot better, but I think adding that to ele would make ele feel worse to play because it's just too much. It would basically not be useable with hammer and pistol because they have too many weapon mechanics that involving switching attunement and building up orbs and bullets, weaver requires using dual skills, etc. It made sense when ele had 3 weapons to choose from but now it just feels like a placeholder that lost its usefulness with every expansion release.

dude... I was almost about to type out Guild Wars in space🤣 I'm glad you. It would at least make engineer cooler.

I love guild wars, but nahhh. I didn't enjoy the theme and vibe change from guild wars 1 to 2, it became too.. "kiddie"? Goofy inspector gadget engineer, an elementalist that can't specialize in an element, a mesmer without interupts. I preferred the whole mtg inspiration of the first game and builds were more fun to make and more specialized. I preferred the lore and world of gw1, and I don't think guild wars 3 would go in a preferred direction for me. I just don't see a reason to release another game that will be held down by the lore and design of the current world, it gives them less freedom of how to design the next game.