Devildoc.6721
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Posts posted by Devildoc.6721
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The darkness of night falls around my soul
And the warrior within loses control
Gotta let it out, gotta let it out
Gotta let it out, gotta let it out
This dragon inside has ahold of me
Clenching its power, trying to break free
Gotta let it out, gotta let it out
Gotta let it out, gotta let it outMove fast baby, don't be slow
Step aside, reload, time to go
I can't seem to control
All this rage that's inside me
Pullin shots, aimin dots, yeah, I don't miss
Branded by fire, born in the abyss
Red hot temper, I just can't resist
All this vengeance inside meAll of these thoughts runnin through my head
Arm on fire, veins burnin red
Frustration is gettin bigger
Bang!Bang!Bang! - pull my Dragon Trigger-
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10 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:
I'm surprised you bring up Tarir. It repeats so often, and I usually experience a huge number of people there because of it. The only times I've found it dead is when I enter the zone while Octovine event is happening, and end up in a backwater overflow instance because everyone has filled up the other instances to do it.
Verdant Brink on the other hand, I find very annoying. Sometimes there are plenty of people doing the meta, other times very few.
Tangled Depths always seems to have a fair amount of people running around. I haven't really had a reason to go back to Dragon's Stand since I did the story.It might be that, I just tend to have horrible timing and landing in dead overflows I guess.
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10 hours ago, Sabotage Mutineer.2953 said:
I'm new to this game so perhaps I'm wrong, but the difference between WoW dailies from my understanding is they were tied to reputation and end game currencies as well as access to open world mobility and availability which felt coerced.
If the reward is a common currency or material that is not exclusive to those dailies, a cosmetic, or an achievement that stops at the dailies then I don't see it as a big deal. You could just not do them and there will be no repercussions.Except not getting map completion rewards, not completing meta achievements, and there are items for sale in the karma shops that are inaccessible.
the last part is the worst because it makes you do the hearts on a daily basis when you need to buy something from them.
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39 minutes ago, Acelidon.1358 said:
Hearts haven't been a thing since 2019, it's pretty clear they're moving away from it. Why even bring this up?
Because the return meta achievements require them and I just want to reinforce any decision they've made to move away from them.
rather than have them testing the waters for more hearts to jam them back in EoD
any attempt to push them back into the maps deserves pushback.
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4 minutes ago, LSD.4673 said:
GW2's quest system sucks...but what the hell would you do without hearts?
Most of the repeatable ones are purposely boring because they have gated rewards behind the heart vendors.
Events and Exploration like was the dev's original intent.
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7 minutes ago, Tyncale.1629 said:
No, I probably phrased it wrong.
I meant that (new) Collections often send people back to old zones where they sometimes have to do a Heart again to buy something from that vendor. Anet adds new collections constantly and they often involve going back to old zones where they put collectibles on vendors or behind DE's. I certainly agree that nobody will go back to a zone just for Hearts, I never meant to say this and I do not think this was a Myth with players tbh.
I also agree that a good meta with a reward that is worth it is the number one reason why zones keep populated.
Seen people saying how much they actually missed doing Istan meta last night, a few complaints about the race being buggy (the gates weren't working sometimes so you'd have to go back and forth through them) and bounty callouts that was the basic sentiment in chat.
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2 hours ago, Beleron.9347 said:
You know what's really tedious? Threads like this one which, like so many others, has reached an impasse, with two thoroughly entrenched positions, and neither side willing to give an inch. Fortunately, given that unlike hearts there's no reward for "forum completion", it's unnecessary to do more than skim over such tiresome arguments once it becomes evident that no one actually has anything more to say.
really, middle ground is "just don't play the game, we got our way, deal with it?"
that's not middle ground at all.
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13 minutes ago, nopoet.2960 said:
I'm one of the people who asked for repeatable hearts and I agree with this. In my mind hearts would reset after a few weeks not daily and the idea that they would lock the vendor never occurred to me at all.
Great, thanks a lot "buddy"
and I hope you can read into those air quotes for what I'm really saying.
and let's be clear "people" like you wanted this feature specifically to COERCE other players to come back to zones to do something they didn't want to do.
Your motivation was awful to begin with.
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2 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:
You legit call hearts static quests in the 1st post.
Events are events
Hearts are quests
Yes different
I didn't call hearts static quests
I said the game was not about static quests
I always refer to hearts themselves as chores, rather than quests.
quest should suggest something of an adventure (not to be confused with what the game calls 'adventures" which are minigames rather than adventures), just previous MMO's have ruined that by making a lot of them chores instead.
but no hearts are not quests.
there's nothing adventurous about any of them.
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2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:
Well adventures are not like hearts as you yourself explain. They are indeed a lot harder to do especially at gold level, but yeah, this thread is about the hearts and is a legitimate topic, just like the others you mentioned. I don't think it's needed to discuss every content type that exists in game in one thread. Everything in an MMO is a waste of time in the end, but we seem to enjoy wasting time under certain circumstances. Call it human nature, just like complaining 😉
Adventures are not my favorite thing to do on maps, but I don't have to do them for map completion, and until this last return to event, I hadn't had to do them for meta achievement completion either.
if you make the "return to" metas not require doing the hearts again, that'd at least be something.
I actually kind of had fun doing the rest of the achievements for istan
just not the hearts.
I mean I guess the harvesting? But I need to harvest for mats every once in awhile anyway, and getting ALL the mats needed for those achievements ends up being less tedious than completing a single heart, because you get 3% completion per tap on a node, vs 1-2% completion for each objective done for a heart.
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4 hours ago, Jilora.9524 said:
Not raids but you sure did about strike missions. And with EoD comes more plus CM's but you still here. And if you can't understand a heart is quests in disguise then I can't help you. 90 percent are kill mobs fetch this do that. Dynamic events are not quest either that's like saying fates in ff14 or domains in eso are quests yet they have a whole quest system. Just because a heart doesn't specifically say kill 15 mobs but if you kill 15 mobs it completes the heart you just did a quest.
Events are quests
Hearts are chores
Different
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5 hours ago, Tyncale.1629 said:
I like the Hearts better then the system they have in WoW and FF14. Hearts are tied to a very local area and usually you already start to fill that Heart when you are just exploring/fighting in the area anyway.
I like Dynamic Events even more, I love running into them, however these are not always around, and waiting for one to start is not that much fun. I think Anet has found a nice middle road here.
I agree that the repeatable Hearts are busywork, but I guess we can forgive Anet to create "content" like that. If it is for some collection it is not so bad: you can get re-acquainted with the area and some Lore which can be fun. However I do dislike the grinds where you have to do the Hearts every day to get a once-a-day item from the Heart vendor, like the Funerary Incenses. But even then Anet has given players more options to obtain the same materials. Tbh, they are pretty good at this.
An important side-effect of this is, that you will always see some players in a map, no matter how old the map is. Core maps in GW2 still have players and sometimes lots of them. You can forget that in WoW and Everquest. Total abandonment.
Hearts don't keep players in maps, meta events and world bosses do.
people never go to maps just to do hearts.
you don't see tons of people flocking to snowden drifts, snowden drifts does have hearts, but it has no meta events or bosses, so it's dead. Hearts are completely solo content, so it doesn't even matter if other people are on the map and in fact, the less people that are in the area, the easier time you'll have completing your chores since unlike the entire rest of the game, heart objectives are not shared between players.
This is a dumb myth that hearts somehow get people flocking to maps.
the most constantly high population maps are ones that have no hearts but have metas and world bosses that people like to run.
Dragon's Stand, provided you pop in the right map where everyone is, that one's constantly being run
Dragonfall, when I make new characters and instant boost them to 80 to farm some keys, I do this map for map completion trying to get a key out of it (precisely because it has no hearts, I don't bother with any of the maps that require hearts), I always see a good amount of people making progress on the meta.
Silverwastes, there are constantly RIBA maps going on in LFG
I always find good populations in Bloodstone Fen and Grothmar Valley too. I was on break when the return events for Bloodstone Fen and Ember Bay. Guess which one I had trouble finding people for doing the boss events I couldn't solo when I came back and people were no longer doing the return to event for them?
Yup, the one that has repeatable hearts.
If your theory was correct that repeatable hearts keep people coming back to a zone, then why on earth were there dozens of people doing the Anomaly at the bottom of Bloodstone Fen but like, only 3-4 people on Ember Bay?
Ember Bay is the one with the precious population retaining hearts afterall.
People should be coming back and doing those hearts every day, because they're repeatable
and they're "content" right?
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5 hours ago, PookieDaWombat.6209 said:
Core game hearts are "required" if you want to get a legendary (which I already addressed in my original post) and I will again argue that the grind of getting your crafting up and all the materials for the legendary is WAY worse than the "horror" of doing the core game hearts, no matter how tedious some of them might be.
Once you've gotten the meta achievements on another map that might require that heart, you don't ever have to do it again after that first time if you don't want to, and if you don't care about it in the first place you can also avoid it all together. I personally HATE doing bounties on PoF maps, but I accept I have to do certain ones if I want certain collections. I still dislike most of the adventures in HoT, but accept I need to do them a few times to get other things I might want.
As for the whole what was and wasn't part of the design in the game: hearts have been in the live game since day 1. (Please note I said LIVE game, not Beta, I've been here since the literal beginning). In the "original design of the game" we had personality traits that were supposed to mean something and a whole slew of other things that were quietly shelved as ideas too. In short, things change, but hearts were there from the start of the main game. Technically speaking we had waypoints since the start of the game and mounts technically "go against the spirit of the game as well", but we have them now and the world has not burned to the ground. Its all good. Unless you have a reason to complete all the hearts, there is no reason to do them. I have about 30 toons across 3 accounts, I've only map completed in tyria twice and might do it two more times and only because i have two legendaries to work on.
Right now each "return to" meta achievement is requiring doing the repeatable hearts.
things I did years ago and have no interest in doing again, I'm being compelled to do them even though they're boring and tedious as crap, because otherwise I'll just end up having 1 achievement short.
That's the kind of thing I don't want anymore.
let people who don't want to do hearts anymore not do them without sacrificing out larger things in the game.
or at the very least
SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the number of chores you have to do for each one.
Lake Doric and this one were awful because their completion % per action were just so tiny.
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6 minutes ago, PookieDaWombat.6209 said:
And AGAIN, I state: unless you are working off of metrics/data that Anet has regarding what does and doesn't actually contribute to map engagement in certain areas, you cannot say that they don't work with any real authority. You can only make a judgement based on personal observation, which is different from raw data. Furthermore, I could sit here and argue (anecdotally of course) that the world boss event meta hurts map engagement as it will suddenly fill and empty maps forcing shard resets and disrupting game flow for people not doing those events. That could be jarring for new players being told to jump to a new shard suddenly if they don't know why that keeps happening. And while I could say that, it doesn't necessarily make it completely true.
Complaining about a heart and its tedium though, especially when you can just not do it, is still my main point here. Just don't do the heart.
They're required as part of larger things.
always
if they were not required for map completion, or for unlocking the vendors, or for meta achievements.
then sure, I wouldn't do them
but you're compelled to do them to complete those larger things
so you saying "oh just don't do them if you don't like them" is just as stupid and inane as saying "if you don't like hearts just don't play the game"
it's a small part of a greater whole.
it's just an annoying part that should no longer be a part of the game since they were not part of the original design and go completely against the spirit of the game.
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2 minutes ago, PookieDaWombat.6209 said:
you literally quoted my response. So let me re quote myself with regard to those hearts. i said:
"on some of those other maps with the repeating hearts as a way to continue engagement on the maps for rewards so those areas don't become dead zones."
Repeatable hearts do not lend engagement to the old maps.
Meta events/world bosses do.
People still do the world boss metas especially around reset time especially like Tequatl and such
those bring a lot more people to a map than repeatable hearts.
nobody goes "oh I'd better go and do my daily hearts in every zone", at best they are compelled to do them because they are either doing map completion, or because they want to buy something off the vendor and it's locked until you repeat the hearts each day.
and some "engagement" because hearts don't encourage playing together at all. They're the one content type in the game where other players around you are a nuisance rather than a welcome sight, because you' can be competing over objectives for the hearts.
I complained about a heart involving dumping buckets of water on drunk pirates in istan
now what if I had to do that when there were 20+ other people trying to do it at the same time?
It'd complete excessively slowly since the drunk pirates wake up when other people splash them too, so you have to wait for another one to splash.
This doesn't happen in events, in fact, more people at events helps spawn champions for better loot so more people is often better (unless the scaling on the boss gets out of hand and all the people are 111111111 longbow rangers in soldier's gear)
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32 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:
Too bad you can not see the forum when HoT released and people complained about there not being any hearts to guide them through the maps.
Hell repeatable Hearts were praised when Ember Bay was released.
So my question for you is what is making you do the hearts? The new meta? Sorry gathering 30 wood ore and plants seem more of a chore than killing mobs in the general area to progress a bar.
and I thought the HoT maps were great aside from one problem, when you have to get into Tarir for story quests but the event is going and the map is basically dead because it's several years old now. Maps like Orr and HoT are what got me excited for this game in the first place, zones that you just explore on your own and find events happening and do them spontaneously, or large mapwide meta events that bring everyone playing together. Hearts don't do the thing that GW2 does better than any other game which is that "playing WITH the people around you" feel, where you're not competing over nodes or enemies or quest objectives, you're helping each other without having to formally invite them to group. Other games don't do this with their "quest" based design that makes everyone selfish and competing over quest objectives and getting into kill stealing scenarios.
When the GW2 Manifesto first hit that was amazing that was hitting everything right, hearts were the first thing to go wrong in GW2's design. It was an afterthought added that was not a part of that original design, it was a step backwards towards your cookie cutter MMO's.
First time i saw ember bay having hearts, and realizing they were repeatable.
I cursed up a storm, and hoped some really awful things happened to people who were suggesting such things on the forums.
I can't hate them enough for getting hearts added back into the game and much less, making them repeatable.
24 minutes ago, TwiceDead.1963 said:See, I used to be of the same opinion, but..
The past 3 weeks I've been playing FFXIV. And I've been spending 80% of my gameplay time running between/- and "talking" to NPC's, with probably only 10% of that time going to actual combat gameplay and the other 10% fiddling with the HUD.
It is atrocious, and it really makes me miss what I had with Hearts in GW2. Just TAKE IN THE SCENERY and smash some stuff up then move along... It is MUCH better than running from A to B ad-nauseum.
But it's OK, they're telling me it gets good eventually... I swear these people have a seriously bad case of stockholm syndrome. Worse is I am beginning to feel it to when I know it is objectively BAD quest design.
So yeah the questing in FFXIV is kittening terrible. The rest of the game I kinda dig.
I'm not suggesting this game go to FFXIV like questing
I'm suggesting this game do what it initially promised to do
now mind you your main story quests that's fine, they're instanced, and it's for the narrative. To put a story in it that's all good.
But I just want more maps like Orr, HoT, Dragonfall, etc, maps that you just explore on your own, do events, and they have meta events that bring everyone together.
I'd taken a break from the game for awhile and came back just as the Marionette had come back into the game, and that was a lot of fun, I want more of that, less tedious chores.
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44 minutes ago, Paralux.6714 said:
I actually think the hearts makes a map better. It adds something personal to it. Sure, when it comes to the repeatable ones it can feel "grindy" at times. Like when doing the Skyscale collection for example.
Yeah just the personal touch of "go dance for my starving cows" yes that is just what a hero who killed Zhaitan needs to do.. you know.. just go dance for some farmer's cows.
or wake up 50 drunk pirates with buckets of water
yeah nothing says adventure to me like doing some farm chores and other busywork.
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2 hours ago, Sir Alric.5078 said:
Do you mean the one where you have to slip past Ash legion scouts unnoticed? If that's the one then i agree, it's probably the most frustrating heart quest in the game. 😩
That's the one, and you can't do nearby events to progress it or kill nearby mobs.
You can only progress it by doing the stealth minigame.
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2 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:
But that's untrue. Dynamic events can't be literally the entire design of the game when the game also contains hearts, can it?
Hearts were not the intended game, they were an afterthought to cater to WoW players
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1 minute ago, mythical.6315 said:
Then. Don’t. Do. Hearts.That's like saying "don't play the game"
since they're required for map completion, required for meta achievements etc.
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or worse.. the stealth one in blazeridge. that one is always awful
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I probably dislike them just as much as you, especially ones like the pirate one in Istan where you can't just kill mobs in the area or do events.. but have to do their dumb chores like finding water buckets to wake up passed out pirates. It's very tedious and progresses slowly.
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1 minute ago, mythical.6315 said:
I find having to do events to be a chore.That's literally the entire design of the game.
not hearts or static quests
there are a ton of other MMO's focused on that empty headed bland gameplay style.
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Just now, mythical.6315 said:
Speak with the NPC.
That’s nice that you do not like them but you do not speak for everyone. If you do not like them then simply ignore them. Just be prepared to not get any rewards tied to them.
Events do a far better job at telling a story than chores.
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New Warrior Elite Spec: Bladesworn
in Warrior
Posted
I dunno, combination of gunplay and sword play, and calling something a "dragon trigger" definitely seems to pull a page out of Devil May Cry (not that that's a bad thing), also reminds me of Nero's playstyle where you rev up your sword
[revving intensifies]