Shade.8037

Hrm, not sure if you would ever actually be allowed to not bring alac as a support into a raid or something...but I guess at least the option for the flavor of necromancy would

Chrono will be what I swap to if this goes live, i am decent ish at it already, and if I can't rez I can at least perma stab. You do bring up something I really thing Anet needs to think about though. People do not like watching bosses die from the ground. And as much as I know a lot of people here like them getting 'punished' for messing up a mechanic, it doesn't help people learn. I simply can not fathom someone getting more from watching the rest of the team kill a boss after having barely interacted with it, than if they got rezed and had a chance to practice what killed them multiple times in a fight. And I FULLY do not think those advocating for this change will be GGing when a newbie dies to give them more of a chance to pratice, i would be shocked if they don't just insta kick them honestly.

I mean I get people wanting to talk over my head on endgame stuff. I am not particularly experienced yet. One of the reasons I am so bumbed about the Hscourge thing IS the fact I want to do more, yet my friends are very skittish about going down and not pulling their weight, I can (COULD) help with that and make training stuff with mostly new/casual guildies easier to get to grips with early on. I am just so confused because everyone I have seen before this patch, framed scourge as basically weak in everything that made healers heal, but strong at compensating for those new to a mechanic. That seemed like a fair trade. Now though it's people like Dew who act like it is breaking higher end stuff, while circling back around to just being mad that it helps people worse than them get kills.

Thank you, I'll be the first to admit I am no god at the game but literally every single bit of research i have done trying to improve points to THIS being the current state of affairs.

Hey, what other support? Are we solo healing the group or do we get our boons from the other supports in this bespoke group made for us? I don't care if you and your bud two man CM Cerus, you do not represent the majority of players. Basicaly every single guide says two heals, focus on stab and prot. End of the day, your are self admittedly toxic, your ego is massive and every post you have is belittling and insulting those of us that you disagree with at this point. I'll not be interacting with you any more as you do not have the ability, or desire one, to behave yourself with even an iota of decency.

Alright, well, as a scrubby little know nothing, who is worse at the game than you. I am gonna keep listening to what the actually popular pillars of the community say on my road to improve and keep bringing supports that can...support.

Where? Who? When? Dude I am not good at the game and I don't claim to be, but i do listen to the meta and people who are, genuinely way better than me. And far as I know there hasn't been a 'no healer' pve meta since freaking HoT. Post proof of anything you have to say or I am ignoring you as purely a troll. Having you make wild claims while calling everyone else bad and stupid is not how I want to spend my time.

Dude no one ever brings, builds for or even talks about pure heal without support. That's like saying we can have quickless/alacless healers, no, we do not. There is support DPC and healers...healers ARE supports. WTF are you even on about?

Frankly I am not sure there is any point in attempting to argue with someone who says stab/prot uptime has nothing to do with being a healer. If you noticed with... They are actively acting as if scourge has more stab than other classes, not the absolute worst/no generation of it whatsoever. I think they either have no idea how these classes and their roles work, or like the fellow that likened us all to the heritage not hate crowd (Which I am still flummoxed by) they just want this nerf to go through and will say anything to argue for it regardless of if it makes any sense or not.

...I, I don't even.... that... Wow I have nothing polite or constructive to say to that, so I shall just...move on, and allow that to speak for itself.

WTF, you said necro's had great boon coverage, which is OBJECTIVELY wrong, and that guy pointed it out. In response you basically called everyone who doesn't agree with you on this subject a liar, and draw an allegory between us and hateful racist dog whistles out of no where? I dunno why you hate transfusion this much but the way you are arguing for it is frankly just off putting.

Wanna quote some cause I can go through this thread and pull a BUNCH of gatekeepy 'git gud' stuff gloating about us no long getting kills we 'deserve'...Somehow doubt you'd care after I go through the effort though and anyone reading your posts can just as easily look back at the general attitude of those defending the change and see, yeah it is pretty spite driven.

I would genuinely like a SINGLE person to make an argument for this change in pve to do so without obvious contempt for those they feel are beneath them, and 'ruining their runs'. wvw sure, i can see issues happening there, but every person defending the pve changes I have seen have been from sheer, gatekeeping spite.

I would like to know this as well. I do not WANT to get more barrier or stab in compensation for the identity of the class, but at least buffing our other rezzing power MIGHT be something to preserve it's feel. Stripping us of the one reason to bring necromancer just because of wvw balance/ seemingly a bunch of people angry about 'undeserved' kills without even bothering to compensate just feels mean spirited.

Thank you. I feel like there are so many other ways to do this, nerfs, tweaks, OPTIONS. But instead we just have an iconic element of the Hscrg just removed utterly. Frankly i'd be fine if we just outright didn't have a heal, outside of may be regen. Just let us barrier, regen and res when that isn't enough. At least that is on brand with a necromancer. This just feels like PvE heal scourge is being sacrificed on the alter of wvw, and all the people defending the pve change seem to be doing so out of some weird glee to see 'those who don't DESERVE them' stop getting kills and, seemingly, be pushed out of PvE altogether. Calling it now, every single person in here salivating at people having to 'git gud finally' will kick anyone who messes up on mechanics and make it all that harder for the scene to grow. So much for wing 8 bringing in new players.

When it is stripped away without adding anything of flavor or class identity back? Every time. Though the thing is, other classes getting options isn't a removal of a class flavor. Mesmers are still the portal guys even if technically thief can do it too. Warrior's loosing a unique thing with nothing in return? Terrible and has hurt the warrior mains ever since. (Not saying banner spam was great, but there certainly were more warriors back then, how often you see one in pve now?)

See the difference is those classes bypass mechanics in well timed groups of skilled players, that's okay. Scourge allows for those dirty little scrubs who aren't good at the game to get a kill they don't DESERVE, that is horrible and must be destroyed. Because if they can get undeserved kills how can those ACTUALLY good at the game feel any validation from doing things the scrubs cant? Least that is about all i have gotten from those defending this change for PvE.

Nice, one more belittling little shot to take in there, all just crying little scrubs mad their crutch got taken away right? Anything you come up with is smart, well reasoned criticism though right? Not whiny crying like the rest of us.

And to hell with those of us that use the spec in the mean time.

Exactly, no one here honestly thinks this will help necromancer, it will just kill scourge healer and they are happy a newbie friendly option is dying.

You LITERALLY say i know nothing and end with a condescending smile. We, are talking about a change to the class you brought all of this baggage into it. You pulled us into this weird elitism conversation. No pivot, our rez power was nerfed many times in DIRECT compensation for the pull. Now they take the pull with no return of that power, the class identity suffers in the end.

The rez power was nerfed years ago, to compensate for the pull...that we are now loosing. As for the rest I have no interest in trying to out pedantic you. You flexed your whole KP thing at me just to 'prove' i am a less experienced and shouldn't have an opinion, and no matter how many training runs you do, your utter contempt for new players is clear in how you speak about people setting up their own groups, and jumped to experience to dismiss my opinion. I get it, your better, woo. Let those of us that aren't have our crutch little pathetic ability to learn the game with our friends.

1: Resurrecting's people effectively is the class identity, because necromancers...they deal with dead things, it's in the name. 2: Actually, every other class heals better, part of the issue, thing is necromancers have this fun little thing where they can pull downed people out of stuff...so they can then get more practice. Meaning they are the best healer for running newbies, and exactly nothing else. 3: I do not care, in the slightest, about your long running vendetta against LFG or people not putting together groups, it has exactly zero to do with this conversation besides showing that your interest in this topic seemingly comes purely from a desire to make it harder for people trying to get into the PvE scene which leads to. 4: This, this right here, this ego driven, peacocking about how cool you are, and how much you've played while trying to dismiss and belittle others with less time or kills than you, is the EXACT thing that makes people scared to get into raiding and strikes. I have, zero doubt you have more experience at this game than me. You are probably better at it in every single regard. And if you were advocating for a nerf, or a change to transfusion, or approached it in a constructive way at all, i would be willing to maybe listen to you. But your eagerness to simply destroy a tool to help people get to grips with encounters, purely to hurt those you are already upset about due to some preexisting LFG drama? I put no stock in your opinion.

First, I never said anything was impossible, you lying about that proves how bad your points are. Second, who do you think heals those practice groups? Scourges, so that people trying to learn, get a chance to. Your hypocrisy, is astounding, if you don't want to be in groups where people get carried, don't bring a scourge. If you want to run a KP group, go ahead. What YOU are doing, is arguing to destroy the identity of scourge, because you don't want to manage your own groups. Don't turn that around into some sort of prewritten scree about the newbies not making their own groups or whatever. You are just proving your distain to new players to the content you are oh so good at is motivating your defense of this change.

Do you think everyone just likes being dead? You think those people that go down to stuff are just happy they went down and don't care? Some maybe, but most people just screw up and end up dead. But the DO try, and the more often they get to try the better they will get at it. And you know what happens when they die in a group without a scourge? The other nine people, half of which are doing 45k dps, kill the boss.....And they get KP. Only difference is THEY DIDN'T GET TO PRATICE. Even in your own constructed situation, is is LITERALLY better for the person to have had a scourge with them every time, because they would have had more chances to learn. Or do you GG every time someone stands in stupid and dies? No? Same people who want this to go through, are the people who will kick those who are dying to stuff while trying to learn it when it is live. This is a danger to any onramping of new raiders and is defended by gatekeepers wanting to make the skill floor higher. NO advanced group makes use of scourge, they are the worst healers for the things healers actually do, for a group playing well. This only targets people learning, and trying to improve.