mixxed.5862

Maybe in WvW with Viruoso you will chase after enemy AoE fields now LOL

Did you see the changes to "Psychic Riposte" for the next beta? All of your bladesongs will be unblockable if you take that trait and space them out a bit - for WvW anyways (if you also take "Bladeturn refrain").

I'd like to see an additional mech skill (e.g. F4😞 Your mech clears target and teleports / charges towards the target location. Range ~1200, CD ~20 sec The most annoying thing about the mech in PvP is that you can't appropriately micromanage its positioning - so at times it'll just stand there and get killed, or outplayed with LOS etc.

I don't understand how they conceived such a misguided change. They got rid of everything that was interesting and balanced about the design of Mantras. Now in PvP they'll either be bad (so they're not played at all) or stupid (when they see play - the design allows for very little counterplay).

Thanks for the follow up, although it doesn't really nerf condi firebrand. But that was probably intentional. Just one more thing: Please revisit the Mantra changes! I really despise them. I think they're boring, unnecessary and all they accomplish is make the game less interesting. They're just bad. I beg you to reconsider and keep Mantras as is until you figure out a more appropriate balance direction.

With the torment change you could unsplit the d.amage coefficient. Make it 0.06 in both PvE and PvP while moving (currently it's split and 0.045 in PvP).

The mantra changes don't seem good at all. I understand why you didn't like them in PvE, but for competitive game modes the design was sound. Why didn't you just reduce the cast times in PvE and make the final charges better? It's such a boring excuse of a "fix" to just remove their core functionality. The design wasn't the issue, the balance was. Why aren't there any meaningful balance changes for PvP and WvW? As the balance team you should make changes with all game modes in mind. All you will achieve with the current changes is cripple build diversity and exacerbate existing problems. What about the pas.sive traits that were (rightfully) put on 300 second cooldowns? Are there any plans for all the subpar specializations and weapons in PvP? How do you intend to fix the very restrictive and boring meta in WvW?

This mantra that taking things out is bad, or that nerfing is always bad and buffing good, is idiotic. Why is it always the same straw man with you guys? "Hey, nerfs are great and all, but maybe buff underperformers too"? "U just think nerfing is always bad and buffing is gud" Or in Justice's case, he points out that that buffs and nerfs are equally effective/innefective and are a complete red herring in the first place (there was a multi-page argument about this). His stance is that looking at buffs/nerfs as the sole means of balancing a game is a common mistake people and devs make, yet here we are again with the same strawman "U just think nerfing is always bad and buffing is gud" This is getting old. There's a good reason why the community shrank to an even smaller fraction of what it was since Feb 2020, and there's a reason why it continues to shrink. And yet, every time someone tries to shed light on why that is, this same over-used strawman inevitably pops up. Ya, People are stuck in a box they can't escape from and god help me I tried to help but it's impossible. These guys don't want builds (the very thing that defines guilds wars as being guild wars) they want Super Smash Bros or Fortnite. They want all player choice wiped out, and want to play Battle Royale Mode instead of Conquest. And ya, this strawman is always played and I just don't have it in me anymore to explain something that they clearly won't understand. Looking at this guy @mistsim.2748 's post it's clear to me this guy will never understand anything remotely close to diversity let alone "Balance 101." @mistsim.2748 I us-to work in business in a creative industry, and I'll tell you what I learned from sitting around in meetings with investors. That every sound-cloud "Rapper" that approaches a record label "has a vision." This is not what people, and investors look for...whether someone has a vision or not...people are interested in whether the vision you have solves a problem and can make money and show real world results. If your vision consistently kills pvp over and over and over again, this is a failed investment and your "vision" was a colossal failure. Do you think CMC doesn't have a vision? Do you think that any developer before them didn't have a vision? Whether they have a vision doesn't matter it's whether that vision actually works or not. Come up to any investor with no knowledge of what you are talking about and find out how far you get...you might be like Theranos and be able to con some people, but the smart ones...the skeptical ones probably wouldn't have wasted their time without actually seeing some kind of shred of evidence of a working prototype of her dream machine. I've linked on here, explaining that an exact science is involved in the creation of balancing elements in a game and you know what most people say? "I'm not gonna watch a 1 hour video..." Ya these are the kind of folks you throw their CD in the trash can at one of these meetings. Their salty that they were denied a record deal but that's the reality for these people...most people are purposefully ignorant because they don't want to put in the actual work and effort to figure out how something works.This was very delightful, thank you. It's quite something to see so much arrogance all in one post. They're simply trying to make sPvP the most fun and skillful it can be. They realized that it isn't if you get one-shot from stealth or killed in a matter of a second in three hits (with the first being an instant cast CC). So the february patch of last year happened. Right now it's become evident that Conquest isn't much fun either when the pro strategy is to sit on a node and bunker it down all game. It's not very exciting when we see 2 or 3 kills in 15 minutes of gameplay. PvP is at its best when there are high stakes, fast rotations, it's about getting the clutch kill, winning the team fight and gaining momentum. All of which doesn't happen when Mender is run by 3/5 meta builds because it offers incredible sustain to a few select builds (mender scourge, mender guard, bunker decap druid/ventari rev). Mender was the problem because it was fucking overpowered. They did right to remove it. Tldr: The balance team is doing a pretty good job lately so don't be a smartass

This forum is such an abomination. Nothing but narrow-mindedness and silly complaints. The last patch was a big step forwards. Team fights and duels finally tend to end in kills. We'll just have to wait and see what the meta settles on. But for now it looks hell of a lot more fun and diverse than before.My only worry is that some people will run double support to keep the bunker meta going.

Leaves room to buff it into something other than the lame sidenode decap role later. Yeah we're 9 years in. No one wants to wait 2 years for the "possibility" that a completely ruined class might get attention to become semi-viable. Druid had received nerfs to the actual skills/traits rather than it being handled with amulet removal. So when they remove Mender/Marshal to tend to 1 build on Scourge rather than nerfing the Scourge's actual traits/skill in question, Druid CA kit and the entire Druid specialization line will be completely useless outside of Ancient seeds. I mean USELESS capital and bolded. Removing Mender/Marshal is not the way to go about this at all. 100% guarantee you it's going to force the stalest most narrow meta we've ever seen x10. Have you been to wvw lately where there are still options for making different kinds of builds? Yeah it's amazingly fun. Going in there and messing around will remind you of how much more fun the game is when there are options to do different things.So you really enjoyed playing the current druid build that much?

Leaves room to buff it into something other than the lame sidenode decap role later.

Nice, happy easter to you, too!Praise CMC \o/

SPvP isn't an MMO. It's a conquest game mode that requires good balancing to make it fun.But currently it plays like a boring game of standing on node. No fast-paced rotations, no momentum plays, just try and bog down the game - that's the winning strategy. Mender's plays a big part in that. Straight up removing it is sensible if you offer new options to keep support builds viable.

I don't get your problem with removing Mender's. While build diversity is cool in an MMO we're talking about sPvP - a very specific game mode that gets insanely boring when half the players run a bunker build. Removing Mender's is the most effective and only viable way to fix that right now.

I honestly think removing Mender's is the best change they can make. With the more sane damage level it has become the Magi's amulet of current day enabling bunkers left and right. It's just not a suitable amulet for conquest any longer. The sooner it's gone the better. The game mode will be better off.

Thank you for the update! Especially the removal of Mender's is exciting news.

They did a poll on implementing a system like that a long time ago, but it required locking profession swapping once you enter the queue (otherwise it could easily be exploited). In the end it was voted against.

That's why all the really good PvP players quit ages ago, why the game has lost all entertainment value, why PvP population is seriously in jeopardy compared to how it used to thrive. Oh wait, you are so wrong.Spvp started to go wild when HoT added elite specs and its been a downhill trend/train since then. Balance will never come again. There are too many factors, and this is why Spvp has lost its population growth and its in a downhill trend. I don't think player numbers depend on balance at all. The more hype there is, the higher the numbers. Right now we're the few stuck with an 8 year old game, an MMO that hasn't seen an expansion in over 3 years, a PvP mode where eSports died 5 years ago etc.Of course it's slowly declining - until there's something new and fun like the next set of elite specializations. But there certainly isn't an exodus happening because you don't like the balance.

Yep, I think you're correct. And minionmanacer just got a small fix to the most obnoxious part of it. I don't think it was enough - but it's a start. So really, a pretty good balance patch overall. Although we're still waiting for a REAL balance update. Well, they're probably spending most of that time on trying to figure out new and innovative ways of making the new set of elite specs even more fundamentally broken than the last one ... So that'll be fun! Also, herald being broken is the state of the game for over 6 years now (although occasionally there's something even more broken!). Best to just accept it as is for our mental health's sake. For the moment I'm happy herald will be more broken than renegade, so we won't see as much of that kitten anymore. Yay!? Just noticed myself: There is a, well, let's call it a tweak, to power herald in the rune. So it is something, I guess.Ohh wow, you're right! They nerfed the rune! Them nerfing herald slightly, just imagine the possibilities - well, anything is possible now! No, no, that just can't be right ... it must have been an accident.

Yep, I think you're correct. And minionmanacer just got a small fix to the most obnoxious part of it. I don't think it was enough - but it's a start. So really, a pretty good balance patch overall. Although we're still waiting for a REAL balance update. Well, they're probably spending most of that time on trying to figure out new and innovative ways of making the new set of elite specs even more fundamentally broken than the last one ... So that'll be fun! Also, herald being broken is the state of the game for over 6 years now (although occasionally there's something even more broken!). Best to just accept it as is for our mental health's sake. For the moment I'm happy herald will be more broken than renegade, so we won't see as much of that shit anymore. Yay!?

That'd be great not gonna lie. But first: Moar nerfs! Btw I just edited the opening post because honestly re-reading it I didn't myself get what point I was trying to make.

I entirely agree, balance patches are not enough to keep things fresh and exciting. We need new content and new elite specs, even if they always mess up a lot. The way I'm seeing the whole sustain vs damage debate that sparked from the february patch is probably a bit simplistic.1) On the one side of the spectrum you have builds that 100 to 0 you in a second.2) On the other side of the spectrum there are the builds that can handily resustain every burst they eat.Both are definitely unfun and need to be purged. The thing is that while builds could 100 to 0 you, they generally didnt, because you could stop them. The average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute, and thats a good number to aim for. The good burst was balanced out with good defense and reasonable sustain. We dont actually see any of the latter. Because there is no point at all. Why go full bunker if you can be unkillable while playing a glass cannon build? The problem is entirely that damage is too low, to the point where you need very little sustain to negate the damage. We had that. It was called the pre-february patch meta. We should just return to it, rather than double down on the current spammer's delight. I think it doesn't matter what you call them. The beefy builds have too much sustain right now, they slow down the game by too much. Even if node scrapper has some decent AoE pressure, it's still very much a defense focused build. And even if shout spellbreaker is support first and foremost, it offers too much self-sustain. Nerf 'em! Those "beefy" builds are glass cannon builds. The damage just isnt there to even kill glass cannons. There isnt any reason to go for a proper bunker build, you just give up damage for nothing. Depends on how you define "bunker". If you mean "able to hold it without ever dying no matter what the enemy does", then sure. But thats not healthy in and of itself. Being able to hold a node for a minute though? That was the norm. Every sidenoder could do that. As I said, the average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute. That was more skillful and fun. Now, fights dont end at all until outnumbered. You literally cant die, even if youre a glass cannon. That is boring. So boring that in that big tournament a while back, some players started synchronised dancing instead of 1v1ing because of how pointless it was. Yeah, that's exactly what I understand by bunker builds: Builds that manage to sustain a node indefinitely 1v1. In my opinion such builds will always be unhealthy for conquest. If they also offer decent node pressure to peel for themselves in a 1v2 versus e.g. a squishy thief they become a real problem. They stalemate the game. That's why kalla renegade recently was meta and scrapper is right now. The problem is that once scrapper gets nerfed the next build will rise on the very same premise. I'd suspect it'll be water weaver and druid - although they don't have the same amount of node pressure, so I hope they'll be a little more manageable when outnumbered. Either way, I believe we're stuck with bunker builds for a while. Even if we hope for a better side node meta already with more balanced builds such as strength spellbreaker, fire weaver, even core ranger and such. For those builds sustain is already close to where it should be, although they could do with a bit of a nerf as well.-> Reduce sustain comprehensively.

I entirely agree, balance patches are not enough to keep things fresh and exciting. We need new content and new elite specs, even if they always mess up a lot. The way I'm seeing the whole sustain vs damage debate that sparked from the february patch is probably a bit simplistic.1) On the one side of the spectrum you have builds that 100 to 0 you in a second.2) On the other side of the spectrum there are the builds that can handily resustain every burst they eat.Both are definitely unfun and need to be purged. The thing is that while builds could 100 to 0 you, they generally didnt, because you could stop them. The average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute, and thats a good number to aim for. The good burst was balanced out with good defense and reasonable sustain. We dont actually see any of the latter. Because there is no point at all. Why go full bunker if you can be unkillable while playing a glass cannon build? The problem is entirely that damage is too low, to the point where you need very little sustain to negate the damage. We had that. It was called the pre-february patch meta. We should just return to it, rather than double down on the current spammer's delight.I think it doesn't matter what you call them. The beefy builds have too much sustain right now, they slow down the game by too much. Even if node scrapper has some decent AoE pressure, it's still very much a defense focused build. And even if shout spellbreaker is support first and foremost, it offers too much self-sustain. Nerf 'em! I remember that pre-february the only way to bunker a node was as a water weaver spaming evades. The damage and burst being put out constantly were on another level. I don't want to go back to that. I still want fights to last for a couple of seconds longer - I believe it's more skillful and fun. Just make the fast-paced and skillful team comps the most rewarding to play again, instead of the slow and sustain-heavy ones.

I entirely agree, balance patches are not enough to keep things fresh and exciting. We need new content and new elite specs, even if they always mess up a lot. The way I'm seeing the whole sustain vs damage debate that sparked from the february patch is probably a bit simplistic.1) On the one side of the spectrum you have builds that 100 to 0 you in a second.2) On the other side of the spectrum there are the builds that can handily resustain every burst they eat.Both are definitely unfun and need to be purged. While we hardly see the former category of builds anymore (which is great), we see too much of the latter. Therefore mostly sustain needs a nerf, although buffing up the damage on some of the CC skills that they made an especially poor job of back in february seems like a good idea.Ideally we even find a good balance for the sidenode meta that way : Where every 1v1 on a side node finds a timely victor.

Well, what even is the purpose of balance changes? At the most basic level it comes down to three things:A ) Make the game play as fun as possible. (That's really the whole point of it being a game!)B ) Promote build diversity and try and create an as level playing field as possible by adjusting outliers. (Choice is fun and this is an MMORPG!)C ) Change for the sake of change. (Keep the game fresh!) Usually the balance changes we see should serve all of these goals at the same time. Like nerfing nade holo and kala sustain renegade - they were unfun to play against, spammy, one-dimensional and definitely out of whack. However now it becomes increasingly evident that it won't be as easy going forward. If Anet continues to only nerf the obvious outliers - like shortbow shiro renegade - we will shift even further towards a sustain centric meta, which is slow, unrewarding and unfun. Worst case scenario : Bunker meta where noone ever gets a kill. Heck, duels on a side node shouldn't be a boring chore, an indefinite stand-off between bunker builds! It's latest inception : Side node scrapper. What's next? Water weaver? Decap druid? Defense spellbreaker? When conquest is more about getting the kills and the map momentum it's simply more fun.However, is the right solution setting shortbow shiro renegade as the new standard for offensive builds - as I've seen suggested recently? Hell no, it's a spammy, one-dimensional build and inherently unfun in the very design that makes it superior to others : Just spam your dps off cooldown until you win. Very short cooldowns on your shortbow skills and high damage coefficients offset the need to time any of it against your opponents defenses.Adjusting the outliers should not be up for debate. However sustain needs a nerf as well - in a comprehensive manner - so we don't see the next bunker spec pop up yet again. As a more general concept:What even is "fun design" in PvP? Interactive gameplay achieved by having opportunity for counterplay. Make every button pressed serve a specific purpose, have solid consequence, opportunity cost and counterplay. Thus make every build play most skillfully.A diverse and (reasonably) fast-paced meta. Stale, slow 1v1's that draw on indefinitely are clearly counter to both of these premises.We need to finally find a sensible balance with neither power-crept offense (= button mashing ftw!, like pre-february) nor overpowering defense (= stalemate meta, like it is right now). Can't be that hard to achieve, right?I still hope CMC can make it happen. tldr;Keep adjusting the outliers and broadly reduce sustain. Unleash CMC. (edited heavily to make my point more clear)