Birdie.3869

Considering last patch, I guess it's good that necro didn't get touched at all? Signets still need love, though. 1k lifesteal (plus 400 every target hit) doesn't seem like it's worth taking still. 2% scaling is crazy weak, too. At most, the signets will selfish heal for about 2k, and locus will still just be a selfish full heal so the lifesteal change doesn't really matter for that outside barrier on over-heal. 25s cooldown for max selfish barrier would be all locus is then anyway. Blowing your entire utility bar every 20-40 seconds for 1k lifesteal each is bad when necro has 20+k health. Locked out of utilities for 20+ seconds (including your heal skill) so you can heal 5k extra health. Not good. Signet of undeath still gains nothing from being traited, and still rips out 50% of your health. At least it could hit enemies now so the health rip is effectively reduced. (The health rip shouldn't exist anyway anymore though) Seriously, anet took a niche but decently used trait and just deleted it for no reason because the build that used it that wasn't meta at all could stay in shroud forever when not targeted. Builds spitting out 40k dps is fine, but a somewhat tanky build doing 20k is not ok I guess. Not to mention fear makes enemies spread out so you weren't wanted in most fractal groups anyway. CC doesn't matter in raids most of the time, not to mention it's a soft cc. I just can't wrap my head around it. It wasn't THAT good, but it WAS fun. Why did it have to die so brutally, why couldn't we get SOMETHING in return for it?

I would really recommend ESO, but it's a very eh game unless you know what you're doing. If you do work on getting into it you can do just fine not spending a dime on the game, but I would recommend guides and things like that to help you get started because they kinda drop you in and tell you absolutely nothing and figuring it all out yourself is like boosting to level 80 on day one of gw2. I would also recommend getting addons set up, such as a minimap. The Alliance Wars (wvw) in ESO feels very similar to wvw in gw2 only instead of boonballs you have regenballs. The fun part about the ball groups in ESO though, is that there are buster builds for them, including item sets all for disrupting grouping up heavily. You might die, but you'll take out 20+ others with you. And there's plenty of roaming as well if you'd rather do that. There's no downstate in ESO, instead dead players can be revived for a soul gem. It takes a long time (about 30s) and fully resets if you interrupt the one trying to res, so dead players usually stay dead. Just make sure when you join alliances you do the starter quest there since you can get a passive that gives you mount speed along with starter siege, and make sure you join the appropriate leveled areas (join the no champion points unless you're in the 1000's for them for example, or you'll just get rolled). Your race will be what alliance you join, so pay attention to that. ESO is pretty good once you know what you're doing, imo. It's just getting there that kinda sucks. The leveling process is pain and crafting is basically out for f2p as well or else you'll never have inventory space (guilds often have crafters in them that will often craft you gear for cheap or even free, though) But compared to gw2, I think it does wvw better. (Though that use to not be true, but boonballs are out of control and now that defending is gone I'd say it's honestly better.)

Signets of Suffering Should just give the passive of signets in shroud like it use to. Nothing else is needed. Not asking for the previous effect, simply asking for it to do one thing. Passives are active in shroud. No cooldown reduction, no bonus effects in shroud. The rest of these are assuming signets of suffering doesn't get changed outside the coming changes. Because we all know that's how it's going to go. Plague Signet This is ok as it is. The coming change of reduced condition damage instead of pulling condi's onto self leads to less imploding when allies all take condi's from various sources, and fixes bugs it has with taking otherwise unremovable condi's off ally npcs, like wounded solder's 11h cripple. If it's a risk-reward signet, though. So imo it should be 240 aoe on target, 3 targets max. Risk the condi dmg on you a little longer to group up enemies before spitting out the condi's for a big return. Signet of Vampirism Make it aoe to make it interesting, but it'd need a nerf on the number of lifesteal on hit effect it puts out. Having it be 5 but up to 5 targets would make it more useful for solo, and make it a more selfish sustain. Like vampirism usually is. Solo you can only rip 5 stacks off whatever you put on max before the duration runs out anyway. That said, that's just theme and personal desire and it's technically fine as it. I'm also sure it sees some minor use from support necro when said necro forgets that well of blood exists. Signet of Undeath This one needs a rework or big buffs. It's lifeforce generation outside shroud is laughable. Weapons usually generate enough life force during shroud cooldown, or just use spectral grab on large groups and your lifeforce will be full. 12% lifeforce in the 10 seconds shroud is down is nothing. +3 seconds in shroud, at most. Less for some shrouds. Harbinger gets 15% (3s in shroud) just for going into shroud passively. Losing a large chunk of health to res 1 person every 75s is crazy weak. If it keeps its health loss, it should res 3, if it doesn't, then 1 is ok. You can't even choose who in the circle gets res'd. It's pretty much random. Meaning if one person can be resed the other is at low with poisoned it can hit the poisoned person not resing them and now both are still downstate. At the very least, this should work with the trait signets of suffering in some way. Currently, it's just a utility with no synergy with anything on necros kit. If swords get stronger the less health you have overall, then there's easier ways to drain your health than burning a utility slot on doing otherwise nothing when solo or with a group that's not going down. It should have damage tacked on to it, if nothing else. So if it hits enemies it will rip 2 boons in an aoe off enemies while resing 1 target. Then the added lifesteal will work with it too replenishing some or all of the sacrificed health. If you want to only focus on it's res and want to be a light armor res support, go ele and take the glyph you can choose between to be a single target full heal from downstate, or a 3 person res that has a similar cooldown and doesn't require you to burn half your health bar. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Renewal Just an added 15 seconds, no ripping your own health bar open, and either 1 but a full heal, or 3 (and 2 other 1 res uses including a self res and teleport the downstate to you). Signet of Locust This is a second heal skill you can take. That's it. It can either be a 2k heal, or a full heal depending on what you fight. Passive is fine, necro was never known for speed or mobility. The place where it was most useful, in reaper shroud, it is no longer usable in. So leaving it a heal skill and a half decent mobility boost when not used is pretty good considering necro lacks proper self sustain outside dagger 2, shroud, lifesteal (which hardly counts considering how weak it is), harbinger regen and heal skills. Signet of Power It's good on both power and condi builds. On power builds it gives the passive power, and cripple, weakness and blind on demand. On condi builds, it's active is an on cooldown usable single target dps boost. I agree, fine as is. I do want it to be a 240 aoe around the target, though. 3 targets max. It'd feel a bit better to be able to combo it with something like spectral grasp so it plays with necros kit a little.

Signets of suffering doesn't need lifesteal on active use. Signet of locus is already a full heal on boon-ed up enemies. Signets of suffering needs to provide signet passive effects in shroud again. That's would make it worth taking for at least a few more people than the maybe 4 or 5 that use it now. Can the devs comment on why they're afraid of letting necro have passive bonus in shroud? Or at least what the plan with signet of undeath is? It still gains no bonuses when traited even with the coming changes. I don't know guys, back to the drawing board with that one, I think.

Signets of Suffering: This trait now also causes signet skills to steal life from enemies they strike. I see. This isn't really a great buff, though. I bet there will still be nobody using the trait that wasn't already doing so. 300 added healing and dmg "lifesteal" isn't really useful at all on one time use actives every 20-30 seconds. At least locus signet will be even more of a full heal against 5 boon-ed up enemies now. Yay for barrier on overheal. I wonder why they're so against letting signet effects be active in shroud. Not a buffed version of signet effects, no reduced cooldown, just "signet passive effects are active in shroud" would do fine. And if it's because signet of undeath lifeforce generation, the signet that STILL won't get any benefit from being traited with the coming change, then they just need to rework or remove it and be done with it.

Hi! This topic is about signets of suffering, not just the signets themselves. I know they have a use, of course. I was asking if anyone was using the signets of suffering trait, not the signets themselves. I also use signet of vampirism on all my builds, as it's what I enjoy. Signet of locus is nice for just getting around as well and can be a full heal on it's own in a group of enemies with boons. Doesn't mean signets of suffering didn't get absolutely annihilated, though. I do now realize I misworded in my first post of the year and said signets instead of signet of suffering, but that is what I meant. My bad.

That does make sense, since scourge still gains the passive effects in "shroud" and can still use the active effect even in shroud. Seems like a despite of situation to me, though. Since lesser spinal shivers (chill of death) seems better for scourge for both passive boon removal instead of active and the free chill that comes with it. In pve it could be viable to run signets of suffering for a total boon removal build, but seems like overkill to me. Pve mobs just don't get that many boons that scourges kit doesn't already handle. And in wvw, where removal matters a lot more, it's only 1 added boon removal, and even as scourge blowing ones whole utility bar's to remove up to 5 boons (locus removes 2 when traited in wvw) including ones heal still seems horrible to me.

Over half a year later and this topic is still fully relevant, no changes have been made to signets of suffering. Only changes to signet of vampirism is higher healing on active use in all modes and plague signet's cooldown (while nerfing the transferred Condi's to 3) in wvw only. It's really not enough, and signet of undeath still gains nothing from being traited. How many people are using necro signets of suffering now? I'd like to know, and is it more of a "despite the changes" situation or is it because of the changes? Necroing a thread on the necro forums is fitting, at least.

Yes, that's why I mentioned aoes, the things that don't require you have a target to initiate the attack. Yes, if you fight a bad thief who over extends too much or too often you can beat them. Yes if you get lucky you can land a CC on a thief, enjoy knowing to follow up on it on an invisible target, though. It's not my problem to balance thief, I'm talking about invisibility in general. If you're not being sarcastic and do want my two cents though, I guess buff their acrobatics line so dodge thief works even better. Enjoy daredevil being immortal instead of shadow arts thieves. At least you can see a dodging daredevil. Heck, I'd be fine with them gaining an extra bar of dodge by default if it means I can time my dodges like I should be able to. And yes as I stated in my original post, it should work like hide in shadows for everyone. They should have an outline, but still be very hard to see. It's already a huge advantage even with the outline, and currently it has none. I'd also be fine with some additional reveal being added that's usable by all specs instead of specific ones that you don't need to massively sacrifice survivability or damage to use. But does it really matter what I think? My original post was mainly pointing out what can be done currently to stealthed targets. I just threw my two cents in at the end. We all know Anet is never going to make any real changes to invisibility.

My man, you cannot target someone who is in stealth. It also removes call targets/set targets. I also said most aoe as someone in stealth can just, y'know, not stand in an aoe.

Copy pasted from the wiki, bolded is additional info about the skill: Weapon skills that cause revealed:   Death's Judgment — Rifle   Malicious Death's Judgment — Rifle These are self reveals to a thief using these skills on rifle. Transform skills that cause revealed :   Tainted Shackles — Death Shroud This is core necro only, and the reveal will break if the targets move beyond 600 range from the necromancer. This cannot be pre-cast. 30s cooldown. 5s reveal if full duration hits. Utility skills that cause revealed:   Light's Judgment — Trap This is Dragonhunter only. This is also a small radius trap that must be triggered to reveal. It will only reveal those who trigger the trap. 20s cooldown. 1s reveal. Gaze of Darkness — Legendary Dragon Stance, Consume This is Harold only, 600 radius. 15s cooldown. 5s reveal.   "On My Mark!" — Shout Core warrior, Targeted skill thus cannot remove stealth. 20s ammo recharge, 5s cast recharge. 2 ammo. 6s reveal.   Sight beyond Sight — Meditation This is Spellbreaker only. ONLY REMOVES STEALTH. Will only apply revealed to invisible targets. 600 radius. 20s ammo charge, 1s cooldown. 2 ammo. 5s reveal.   "Sic 'Em!" — Command Core Ranger, Targeted skill thus cannot remove stealth. 28s cooldown. 6s reveal.   Binding Shadow — Cantrip Deadeye only, this is a self applied reveal. 20s cooldown. 3s reveal. Profession mechanic skills that cause revealed   Spear of Justice — Virtue This is dragon hunter only. This is a 1200 range Piercing attack in a targeted direction thus will not reveal if it does not hit. 20s cooldown. 6s reveal.   Detection Pulse — Tool belt, Utility Goggles Core Engi. 900 radius. If you are blinded, the skill is blocked, the target evades or goes invulnerable, it will not apply reveal. 20s cooldown. 6s reveal. Common skills that cause revealed   Toxic Unveiling Volley — Arrow Cart This is an arrow cart ability. Requires rank 5 of arrow cart mastery. 540 radius. Reveal will be applies up to 8x in the aoe. 60s recharge. reveal is 1s, applied up to 8 times. Skills that remove revealed This is blank in the wiki. Elite skills that remove revealed   Shadow Meld — Cantrip Deadeye only. Enters invisibility. THIS SKILL DOES NOT REMOVE REVEALED IN WVW OR PVP. 45s ammo recharge. 2 ammo. Trait skills that cause revealed   Magebane Tether (Magebane Tether) — Tether yourself to your target. If they move beyond the range threshold, pull them to you. Grants might and reveals your target every second. This is spellbreaker only. Targeted thus cannot remove revealed. 12s cooldown. 8s reveal.   Controlled Analysis (Lock On) — Analyze a disabled foe, applying vulnerability. Core Engineer. Applies revealed on CC. 25s cooldown. 6s reveal.   Invisible Analysis (Lock On) — Analyze a stealthed foe, applying vulnerability. Core Engineer. Applies revealed on hitting an invisible target. 25s cooldown. 6s reveal. tl;dr: The classes that can fight Invisibility in some way every time are: Harold (Rev), Dragonhunter (Guardian) and Core Necromancer. If you are not running the correct utilities or traits on: Warrior/Spellbreaker, Ranger or Engineer then you will not have access to reveal. Classes that DO NOT have any source of revealing others. Elementalist, Mesmer, Thief. There you go, I did all the research and broke it down for everyone. Stealth is broken against Elementalist and Mesmer as they have no way to fight back. Warrior, Ranger and Engineer can be jumped and unable to fight back against it if they are not running otherwise bad utilities at all times. Fun fact, Mesmer has the effect Hide in Shadows This only applies to mesmer and gives mesmer a purple outline when hiding. It is otherwise treated the same as invisibility, though it can stack 9 times instead of invisibility's 6. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hide_in_Shadows_(effect) So yeah, Invisibility should at least be made into hide in shadows in wvw and pvp. The thing is already there, just need to change the skills a bit. As it is, yes. Invisibility is broken in player vs player scenarios. Sorry shadow art mains, but you are indeed suppose to die even almost instantly when you get caught off guard by a zerg running over you. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If resistance negating all condi damage and effects was broken, how is invisibility negating all targeted damage and most aoe damage not?

If you're still playing ele, take all your gear off, swap it to necromancer and run harbinger instead. You can be a better boon support with infinite quickness and fury, do equal dps with the same gear just auto attacking, have access to the best pull in the game, are about two to three times as tanky, AND you get access to corrupting or removing boons. They're getting a buff next patch too, with death magic being better for even better tanky ways without giving up dps. If you want to run support, go scourge instead for ranged alacrity on a slightly harder rotation. Ele has always done three times the work for half the pay off. CMC was suppose to be the "ele main" that would save us but ended up not caring just like the last devs. Every patch that buffs ele, two more comes out that nerfs it. If you play ele do yourself a favor and swap over to necro to do literally everything better for way less work and much more survivability. Sorry if you enjoy ele.

"We'll be following the conversation and making further adjustments as needed" I know it's a lie, but I want to believe. Pretty please with a cherry on top: reconsider the pig pets forage changes. Right now, you have to walk to the pet, or call the pet back, use the forage skill, go through the animation of picking up said forage, then using that forage right away as you can't use your weapon skill while holding the forage. Changing them to only worst forage possible that we can get now is a bad call, reconsider please.

Pig won't forage eggs anymore? My pig meme won't work anymore now :( Hope they don't go through with that change. (Seriously, all the pigs forage only their worst forages with that. Why? One already has to walk over to where the pet was or call the pet back to you, use the forage, then go through a 1-2 second animation picking it up and then use it before getting back to the fight. Foraging was a meme. What were they thinking?)

Good thing it's not a shopping list then. Just a simple request or two. If they don't want to be reminded of things that need balancing, then they can lock this thread and I'll go do other things than pop by each patch to remind them once again.

So,@Cal Cohen.2358 @Rubi Bayer.8493, for when you guys release the scourge nerf that we all know is going to happen could you throw in the return of signets of suffering or some buffs to necro signets with it? Feel free to check out my other comments here as for why since they're still relevant as zero changes have been made so far. And while I have your attention, if I do: Engi Turrets need love too. Elementalist Summons (Lesser) as well. Thanks.

I wish snow crows was deleted outright. Golem testing sucks, show me dps numbers on a boss or two that fights back and moves. I'm not saying dps isn't really high on scourge with pistol, it is, but man they better not drag scourge the same direction they dragged catalyst just because standing still smacking a large hitbox does big numbers.

It's all the afk farming bots at sandswept isles and such I'm betting.

Hey look at that, I called it. You ignored half the feedback on stuff that really needed answers and looking at. Including stuff that went in here. Well done, Cal! You sure capped the fire enough to get away with ignoring a large amount of us once again! GG.

It is a bug and yes it's been happening for years. Just seems to happen randomly when going into shroud. It's only visual at least.

Guess I'll bump this, since the patch made no changes whatsoever to necro signets. Still looking for them to be usable in pve, Anet, CMC, whoever. Where's the buff for vampirism signet? Where's the buff for plague signet or power signet? You guys can't just lower cooldowns a tiny bit and think all is well. Even traited they're all outclassed by a single well (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Corruption) minus maybe locus signet. I'll keep bumping this up every patch until something is done.

Guess I was wrong, Nevermind. Didn't realize reaper could 100% upkeep shroud in raids and strikes.

While I do agree there is still ways to play necro, I complain due to the fact that a core aspect of necro in general was outright deleted with this update. The excuses they made to justify it being that the previous way was not fun, yet this is way worse. Just because there IS other options, doesn't mean forcing a shroud build into only being able to play reaper is a good way to go. There's 3 other specs, core suffers a lot from this change, as does harb, both classes that don't have enough if any fear output in shroud. I don't even need to talk about scourge atm. That's why these changes need to be reverted. Signets should still apply effects in shroud. Idc about the cooldown reductions, but I want my extra lifeforce generation, extra power and vamp signet to be usable at all. Some reapers want the extra move speed in shroud in pvp/wvw I imagine too, along with it's heal. It also got completely destroyed in those game modes. Fear build is a fine build and it worked better with signets and fine without, but don't think that makes it ok they killed signet necro. There's multiple ways to play, and forcing those of us out who want to play with signets is not a good move on anets part.

Cal, you want our feedback? Are you sure? There's been tons of it and it's all been mostly ignored. Even this doesn't include half the stuff people have been complaining about (necro signets for example). Are you REALLY sure you want our feedback? Or is this just a place to funnel complaints so it can be ignored more easily? Because honestly I'm not sure anymore.

Yeah, so nothing about corrupts/boon rips being increased in wvw and nothing about fixing necro signets. Great. So kill 2 core aspects of necro and then just ignore any feedback on why that's a bad idea. Glad scourge isn't going to be dead forever, sad the rest of necro is.