Cjay.6312

Yeah I understand that the community plays a large part into the success of a game. However the community can only do so much. This thread was more so me prompting an idea for potential implementation by anet in order to give this game mode a direction. Them doing anything would let us know where they want pvp to go and how they want it to play. Of course there are cons to this, much like every other idea any of us could probably come up with, but I'm giving what I think is a good direction that will appease a lot. If current dev time is busy with the expansion, obviously some massive UI overhaul or whatever is out of the question for now and probably well after the expansion too, but my idea would pave a path for easier management of the mode. For example, because its not conquest and smaller team sizes, the mode should be a lot easier to monitor and balance than before. Either way it goes, I don't know if this is the most solid idea I could've came up with and it doesn't even appease all my wishes that I'd like for this game mode, but I genuinely just want something to happen and even if it came down to this, I wouldn't mind too much 🙂

Yes, in those threads I said that the people that advocated for permanent 2v2s and 3v3s in all modes wanted to be rid of conquest because they would rather not have to deal with the thought of having to make the correct rotation, etc... They just want to run around and kill things. And in the past month of mind numbingly boring ranked games, I thought "Well why not just take it away. Other games have different primary pvp modes besides conquest and rack in tons of new viewers, how could it not atleast push this game forward." I think it would fair quite well in a tournament format because those naturally pull in alot more people. Daily ATs pull in people wanting to make quick and easy gold, monthly automated tournaments provide the extreme competitive atmosphere and can also just be done for the rewards, same with custom tournaments. And to put that idea in a broader perspective, a current problem is that there aren't enough players to create more than 2-3 truly competitive teams on BOTH regions combined. However, this wouldn't be the case with the implementation of deathmatch. Simply put, this would break up those teams and allow for more people to get into the scene and have a better chance at doing really well. Rather than putting a heavy emphasis on things such as mechanics, synergy, game sense, etc.... it's primarily mechanics that will carry you through to a win. Removing an objective and reducing pvp down to its simplest form would inherently be easier to commentate and to compete in. It would provide an easier way for entry level players to get in while also helping out the competitive scene. I DON'T like the implementation of 2v2/3v3 for ranked. Ranked does not provide nearly enough incentive for it to pull in the necessary amount of players to make it work. The queue times are abysmal during the off-season; I'd often wait 10 minutes just to get paired against silver players who are just trying to get their daily done right at daily reset. I went 100-0 last off-season without ever having to put any thought into what I was doing no matter when I queued. I wouldn't have this opinion if the scene was thriving more but unfortunately that isn't the case and we have to make do with what we have. I understand Anet is understaffed right now and are currently working on an expansion. That's why I wanted to try and provide an idea that (atleast I think) utilizes current game optimization and wouldn't take up a lot of dev time.

The difference here is that those are mobas, which are completely different genre than what I'm talking about. I specifically compared it to WoW because it is the most complex rpg that is also still insanely relevant. WoW has literal mouses and keyboards designed to be able to play that game more efficiently. And I'm also not separating the combat from the mode either. My point is that even though it has such complicated combat, people are still able to view it due to the nature of the pvp. GW2 pvp is quite complicated for others to watch and it being conquest does not help with that. Its fine for us who already play because we have an idea of the rotations and whatnot that make it interesting, however new players, pve/wvw players or those who are interested in the game won't understand ANYTHING at all, and regardless of your opinion on implementing deathmatch, you have to admit this would solve that intrinsic problem with conquest viewing. And like you literally just said this game is different. Get over yourself. Yeah but I'm tired of complaining on and on about management and I'd rather just give genuine ideas for a future rather than blurting out suggestions aimlessly because its what I want to see and what I'd enjoy. Swapping classes is fine. Its okay for people to counter comp you. That's apart of competition and you might not like it but that's just the nature of the game. I'd suggest something such as implementing the unranked rule into ranked where you can't swap to a class that you have 2 of already. Wouldn't fix everything obviously, but it'd manage the quad necro stacking you'll see every so often in ranked.

For the progression of this game I think it should become deathmatch oriented. An issue this game has in comparison to counterparts like WoW is that the game modes utilized are completely different and provide different viewing experiences for players. Conquest innately is difficult to follow as it requires alot of prior game knowledge to truly understand what is going on, however in WoW that isn't the case. Any casual viewer who's never watched could look at it and not know what any skills do, but understand that the general objective is to kill the other players and when all are dead, you win. These wouldn't be 5v5 oriented but rather 3v3. In terms of maps used for this, all the current maps could see use so no need for to create a brand new one. For example, legacy middle, forest beach, khylo middle, etc... You could even bring in courtyard because it actually is a well designed map for this intent. The current 2v2/3v3 maps are not good enough. They're too small and don't provide much of what creates skillful or fun fights. I don't care for the cult on here that harps about 5 man queues, they've been gone for 7 years, quit living in the past. The mode requires alot more innovation than forcing players into something that benefits no one but the select few. If you're wanting to 5 man, do an AT and call it a day. In this case, deathmatch would still allow for the diversity conquest brings, you still have the convenience of being able to solo queue while also being able to duo or trio queue to your heart's content, and it provides an easier viewing and commentative experience from a competitive standpoint. Even though I said all of that, I personally don't think that should be implemented as the general ranked experience, but rather tournament formats (so daily, monthly and custom tournaments). However if it is believed that is the direction we should go, then so be it. My reasoning for not wanting it to be the ranked experience stims from the off-season. It's not enough incentive to get players playing and with NA's lack-luster pvp population, the games would be more often than not unbalanced as it throws those high rated teams into any game it can find. If there was more incentive, sure. If the balance was better, I also don't think this would be an issue to worry about either, but I'd rather one problem be dealt with at a time. And because I genuinely don't care and know someone is going to respond with nonsense I won't be bothered with responding to, I believe the balance in this game should take a hard U-turn from the direction it's been. The reason why everything is so skewed right now is because there is a lack of damage and this stems from the big February patch. TL;DR less damage means that the things that were previously kept in check no longer experience this (i.e. Core necro). The reason why side noding has been so pointless and has been reduced to what can survive a thief plus/bunk a node better instead of the previous side noders take their respective 1v1s and they end within a minute is because of the lack of damage to continue that. Everything needs more damage, all around. Everything needs buffs, not nerfs. All the people here rant and rant about necro but necro is legitimately **fine** and doesnt really need any changes, everything else around it needs to be buffed instead so like before it can be kept in check with high damage. And I'm going to be quite upfront to anyone who responds, it would take a lot for you to change my opinion on this. Too little and too much power creep is an issue and we can all agree we would rather deal with the latter than the former because its just more fun, and thats what balance should opt to create anyways.

It's 2v2... are you good bro? I literally sat in 8 minute queues for several hours at a time when I wanted to play. I'm just farming for reward tracks....

Dude, what makes you think I'm afraid of losing? I'm literally a r1 player and just got r3 again last season like 160-40. I don't LIKE losing but I'm not afraid of losing, nor is anyone else. We all know we're going to lose eventually. I don't support the removal of 5v5. I also don't support 5 man queues either. I think that daily and monthly ATs are a great source of 5 man queue and there is no need to bring that to ranked. Duo queue in ranked is perfectly fine, the mmr system just needs to be fixed a little and our population needs to grow

You typed all this just to be so wrong in every sense of the word. The reason why 5v5 was removed was because it wasn't fun for the community. It was just the best players washing the casual players. Or the best players washing decent players. It's not fun for anyone involved. Not only that, our population cannot sustain that like these other games you're mentioning can. Manipulation still happens even when solo que and is actually best when done solo queue, so removing duo queue for that reason would be idiotic. A large part of why people do PvP is because of the rewards. That's kind of the point. To gain prestige by prevailing over your fellow players. To flaunt titles and whatnot you acquired in the process. Saying no one does ATs because no one has a place to practice is dumb. Daily ATs themselves are a great place to practice in a facilitated environment. Unranked is also another place you can practice, but you'd probably get significantly lower quality matches. And people are quite open to "getting washed" for large/consistent sums of gold. That's why random groups form up to do the mAT every month. They know they aren't gonna win but the reward is enticing and not too much effort required. You should abstain from having any further opinions about PvP if you're going to have nothing but ignorance to belch out dude. Don't tell some new player off for asking a genuine question like you have any right to do so. They're here to learn and grow just like anyone else. To the other guy, solo queue was tried before and it also proved to be a clown fiesta. Manipulation still happens regardless, and the quality of the games just got worse than if there were duos allowed. Instead of having someone you can comfortably rely on, you're left with randoms you dont know or trust to try and win a game. You remove the concept of playing with friends in ranked for fun, you lower the quality of matches, and no one really has fun. Having the option to go solo or duo is just the best medium objectively.

Just send a mail to the character Primordial Stance saying you'd like to have a conversation about ele and he'd definitely respond to you

I don't know why people in this pvp community think that premade teams are the way to go. Imagine sitting there and forcing actual good players to wait in easy 10m+ queues just to fight against silver tier players. We already do that in ranked and now you're wanting to make it worse for no actual reason. That system is already simulated in ATs with every team getting stomped by whatever plat 3 pug group is formed. There is no competitiveness in the 2v2/3v3 scene. Why do you think every season you have people like me going 98-0 and top 10 is full of insane winrates like that. They aren't competitive, they aren't fun, and aren't worth the time. The only ones who actually enjoy the offseason are the players that unfortunately aren't good enough to enjoy ranked to its fullest extent. Having to not worry about rotations and just zoom in and mash your buttons with no actual thought is why 2v2 is enjoyed. Eliminating ranked would quite literally kill the pvp scene more than it already has been. There is no way you could possibly think anyone outside of the gold population would waste their time trying to gain "prestiege/competitive" gameplay from some place outside of a daily automated tournament or a monthly automated tournament. I'd rather get good rewards for slaying soccer moms than to get 30 silver for doing the exact same menial task. The offseason is dog and needs to be shortened or removed. Ranked is the only source of pvp content for players like me who only enjoy pvp in this game. Unranked is a chore fighting bad players that can't even help it because they're just new/trying to get into the game. All we're doing is making it more unfun for them by infesting that mode. Even when we're playing casually, we're still leagues better than them and it doesn't provide anything worth learning or playing for

Having a two week offseason is by far the most painful thing you have to endure as a pvp player in this game. Unranked is such a pain fighting against players who are just trying to learn the game and don't have as many hours or experience against billy john here with 20k hours and fair ranked placements. Either shorten the offseason by a week so that the players who enjoy ranked as the main source of pvp content in this game can get back to it, or remove it all together and make 2v2/3v3 AT modes for the people that do actually like them. But having an offseason - especially for this long - is outrageous.

Virtuoso specifically was appallingly bad from a complete design standpoint. 8 years went into creating this really intricate playstyle for mesmer where it was really disruptive, elusive, and in your face, only to create an elite specialization that would be better suited for a ranger. For pvp, there was quite literally only one good trait in the entire traitline, and it was giving it aegis for using those disappointingly bad shatters. My list of all the issues with virtuoso is as follows: - No passive movement speed OR mobility skills besides sw3. It's already outclassed by chronomancer and mirage in this aspect. -Literally 0 attempt at trying to synergize with the core traits whatsoever. Just reading through the traits of virtuoso and there are maybe 3-4 traits throughout all of the core traitlines that really accentuate virtuoso. -Your shatters all have a long cast time, cannot be used behind you, and flat out miss if someone is strafing (also misses more if you're using a legendary weapon oddly) which is undeniably clunky by design because you cannot deal with any player that is actually moving like a real person through strafing and what not. Your damage output is also neutered by the excessive amount of projectile denial in this game and through any small form of LoS. You're limited to single target only damage, and you cannot provide much of it because it takes too long to generate enough daggers to be useful. But atleast you'll have fury from 1 column of traits right -You have zero survivability (again) due to no passive movement speed, a really bad block that's supposed to replace distortion (forcing you to take that utility because its the only way you live on the spec), no passive regen, all your heals are unbearably bad (imagine needing a target for a heal), literally nothing is given to you for all these massive trade-offs that are thought of as insubstantial -The pathing on your skills is actually horrendous. The shatters flat out miss more often than not. Your elite skill has a year long cast time and can literally be side stepped the moment it activates, it along with your shatters CANCEL for no reason so kittening often, and again can't be used behind you, which is again, clunky. (I keep emphasizing this because not being able to do so means that your main source of damage, your ONLY source of damage, is completely negated not by any skills within the game, but because they have a long cast time and have to be used in front of you, so anything thats in your face can just keep running to the side or through you and you actually cannot use a skill. You can't kite or do anything that you'd normally do to manage these things because you have to be at a range to be viable, even though literally all 3 other specs are designed to be close range fighters) -The damage is just really bad. ANOTHER elite spec where you won't take the weapon given to it because it's god awful due to how low its damage output is, how clunky it is, and how little utility it provides. It could literally NEVER usurp MH sword as is. Your f2 hits HARDER than your f1 randomly. Literally no reason at all as to why but it does. The utilities are also really bad. I really enjoy using the immob utility but with the maximum amount of modifiers you can take on zerker spec, it crits for 2k and is easy to miss despite all the setup it requires. The other skill like it but is more damage based literally will hit someone a maximum of 1 times, and its also just as low damage even if they sit in it. The stunbreak, potential to be good, is on a 45s cd. Automatically terrible and could never be used. The elite, terrible pathing, terrible damage, long cast time. You'd get better use out of timewarp and that is saying something. -It is genuinely way too hard to generate daggers. This spec was clearly designed to be power based, and anything power based has to have some sort of consistent way of dealing damage, especially if its way of dealing damage is the class mechanic. But say you have 5 daggers and use f1, you're waiting an unbearably long time to generate more daggers because your other skills just dont give any. The one trait in your GM line that gives you daggers takes 9 seconds just to generate 3, a barely suitable amount to actually pressure someone. You could say "Just take deceptive evasion" and then you lose out on something you needed, whether it be something that provided a needed damage boost or a needed way of surviving. Your sustained damage is non-existant, so your burst damage has to be compensated as such. It's just not enough to ever be viable in PvP. There HAS to be more traits or skills that generate daggers, otherwise it simply will not work. -Please change the block. It takes all your daggers only to do 100 damage per tick no matter the amount of daggers you have. It doesn't even get rid of blind by hitting those around you until like 3s into the cast. It's also a channeled block on a light armor spec that provides no other benefits like earth shield on ele does. And oddly enough, everything that pressures you on mesmer is unblockable anyways. It's just bad by design and through proper utilization. The spec is boring to play. It has the same problem harbinger does, you're not incentivized to actually play the game. You just run around waiting until you can actually contribute something and the moment you can't, you fade away from the fight altogether and rinse and repeat. It's incentivizing taking problematic traitlines (chaos and inspiration) to try and provide for it what the spec lacks. I can unironically, no meme, see bunker virtuoso being meta before any form of dps because it already doesn't do damage nor generate alot of daggers, but it can definitely run in a circle really well, and that will make me quit the game again.

It's a joke to comment on the forums, but all three specs were hot garbage. Virtuoso specifically was appallingly bad from a complete design standpoint. They spent 8 years creating this really intricate playstyle for mesmer where it was really disruptive, elusive, and in your face, only to create an elite specialization that would be better suited for a ranger. For pvp, there was quite literally only one good trait in the entire traitline, and it was giving it aegis for using those trash shatters. My list of all the issues with virtuoso is as follows: - No passive movement speed OR mobility skills -Literally 0 attempt at trying to synergize with the core traits whatsoever -Your shatters all have a long cast time, cannot be used behind you, and flat out miss if someone is strafing (also misses more if you're using a legendary weapon oddly) which is undeniably clunky by design -All of the traits have no synergy with the rest of the core traits -You have zero survivability (again) due to no passive movement speed, a really bad block that's supposed to replace distortion (forcing you to take that utility because its the only way you live on the spec), no passive regen, all your heals are unbearably bad (imagine needing a target for a heal xddd), literally nothing. But atleast you'll have fury from 1 column of traits right xdddd -The pathing on your skills is actually horrendous. The shatters flat out miss more often than not. Your elite skill has a year long cast time and can literally be side stepped the moment it activates, it along with your shatters CANCEL for no reason often, and again can't be used behind you, which is again, clunky. (I keep emphasizing this because not being able to do so means that your main source of damage, your ONLY source of damage, is completely negated not by any skills within the game, but because they have a long cast time and have to be used in front of you, so anything thats in your face can just keep running to the side or through you and you actually cannot use a skill.) -The damage is just really bad. ANOTHER elite spec where you won't take the weapon given to it because it's god awful because of how low its damage output is, how clunky it is, and how little utility it provides. It could literally NEVER usurp MH sword as is. Your f2 hits HARDER than your f1 randomly. Literally no reason at all as to why but it does. The utilities are also really bad. I really enjoy using the immob utility but with the maximum amount of modifiers you can take on zerker spec, it crits for 2k and is easy to miss despite all the setup it requires. The other skill like it but is more damage based literally will hit someone a maximum of 1 times, and its also just as low damage even if they sit in it. The stunbreak, potential to be good, is on a 45s cd. Automatically terrible and could never be used. The elite, terrible pathing, terrible damage, long cast time. You'd get better use out of timewarp and that is saying something. -It is genuinely way too hard to generate daggers. This spec was clearly designed to be power based, and anything power based has to have some sort of consistent way of dealing damage, especially if its way of dealing damage is the class mechanic. But say you have 5 daggers and use f1, you're waiting an unbearably long time to generate more daggers because your other skills just dont give any. The one trait in your GM line that gives you daggers takes 9 seconds just to generate 3, a barely suitable amount to actually pressure someone. You could say "Just take deceptive evasion" and then you lose out on something you needed, whether it be something that provided a needed damage boost or a needed way of surviving. Your sustained damage is non-existant, so your burst damage has to be compensated as such. It's just not enough to ever be viable in PvP. -Please change the block. It takes all your daggers only to do 100 damage per tick no matter the amount of daggers you have. It doesn't even get rid of blind by hitting those around you until like 3s into the cast. It's also a channeled block on a light armor spec that provides no other benefits like earth shield on ele does. And oddly enough, everything that pressures you on mesmer is unblockable anyways. It's just bad by design and through proper utilization. The spec is boring to play. It has the same problem harbinger does, you're not incentivized to actually play the game. You just run around waiting until you can actually contribute something and the moment you can't, you fade away from the fight altogether and rinse and repeat. It's incentivizing taking problematic traitlines (chaos and inspiration) to try and provide for it what the spec lacks. I can unironically, no meme, see bunker virtuoso being meta before any form of dps because it already doesn't do damage nor generate alot of daggers, but it can definitely run in a circle really well, and that will make me quit the game again. Now with all that said, buff chrono 😄 I'm 100% gonna slide that in because it's the best designed mesmer spec that doesn't do too much and only buffs core mes and fixes its problems. Its traits are all good and synergize well, and would only take about 2 changes to make it meta over that disgusting mirage spec 😄 Give it distortion, maybe buff some heal values of the heals (they're condi specs with 25k hp with a 5k heal on a 25-30s cd, i think a buff would be nice 😄 Maybe make ether feast cleanse a condi per clone 😄 Nerf chaos and inspiration and rework Signet of Illusions 😄 Doooone - -

That's reasonable, but I think it's also reasonable to be worried considering what previous installments did to the quality of the game, and I hope that pointing out issues, even if they seem to be overlooked, helps bring about some positive change towards the game/class.

TL;DR AT BOTTOM :)I haven't played this game in about a year and a half and coming back (just because unranked is relative fun) and seeing the overwhelming disadvantage playing this class brings is honestly very saddening. The average player ignoring what they want to play as fun and instead thinking in terms of what's viable will always swap off mesmer because of how much of a joke it is. It's damage is mediocre compared to several other specs and due to it not even being able to deal consistent streams of damage NOR having the burst capabilities to hang with those specs, it's almost hard-countered going into every engagement. The fact that I've reduced myself as to being a walking plasma for a random thief is disappointing. Someone's going to read this and see my name and be like "YoU jUsT mIsS mAnTrA mEsMeR" and you'd be correct, just not for your reasoning. I miss it because it actually compensated for some of power's weaknesses while still being completely outplayable by even semi-competent players, which members of the community were slowly becoming. The build I ran was purely glass canon and provided absolutely nothing else to the table except for damage, and could easily be deleted and made useless by just having a decent thief on them the entire game, let alone the constant streams of condi spams and blitzing by revenants or power guards. Now, I go and see that the 'meta' power mesmer build REQUIRES you to use mantras because you absolutely lack the sustained damage/burst damage to even compete without it (while using mantras that have been nerfed to the ground and are completely subpar btw) (mantra of pain hits for a whopping 1.5k with 25 might but is apart of the build btw). Mantras are absolutely horrendous and are not worth taking because 1) Damage nerf to everything 2) The only stun that it had came from diversion (removed btw :)) and without it, benefitting from certain traits are now pointless because the only time they happen is in impossible scenarios 3) Previously stated traits had their damage nerfed 4) Chronomancer is a shitty abomination of a specialization now. 5) Cannot be used behind you anymore (not that big of an issue, actually reasonable nerf all things considering but is merely stated in order to accentuate previously stated reasons). 6) Mirage is a joke. By no means am I saying that it did not need balancing; It did, but not in the way that it received. Everything that made power mesmer even relatively good was either reworked or nerfed to the ground such as: mirror blade being changed 3(?) times in the past several years and has now been made to where it does less damage than any of the previous reworks and is primarily used for clone summoning, the odd decision to switch what mind stab and phantasmal berserker used to do, making them less effective by doing so, illusionary wave tickles, power block doesnt crit while also having an interval and while it may provide more "thoughtful gameplay" it's more so that the playstyle that using that trait revolved around was changed and became way less effective as you're no longer able to provide value to your team through it while also being consciously aware that your standard burst doesnt get the average player down to even 50% consistently. I did not mention everything that makes it subpar, I'm more so on a tangent if anything, but I hope that if you even took the time to read this wall of text, you can understand where I'm coming from. This class used to be really fun and enjoyable. It had a skill ceiling (minus mirage) and you could easily distinguish those who were good and those who were lacking. It's sad to see that regardless of any theory-crafting or whatever, nothing could really be done to work around all the changes to the class because you'll always be working with your tantalizing ability to tickle everyone and burst like a wet noodle. TL;DR Because of previous balance patches and reworks/nerfs done to mesmer, it is no longer a viable class, which is problematic. In no way, shape or form should a CLASS be rendered absolutely useless in solo or team-play because of changes made to it. Everything should have its place, and mesmer currently has none. Thank you for reading