Minna.7895

I just look at it from the positives: I don't care as much about the legy relic not being legendary anymore, cause it just doesn't matter as much with gw3 on the horizon. Maybe the next gw2 xpacs will be good, maybe they won't ...but finally we got an explanation as to why the last releases (EOD -especially the tunnel- and SOTO) were questionable and not of the former quality of HOT/POF era (opinions may differ on that one ofc).

I agree with the general idea of new statsets, but the ones you mentioned are not needed in PVE (no idea maybe in PVP/WVW- wich also is a sort of PVP- so I usually don't play those unless "forced" by achievements/gear I want) the middle one could be useful (not sure if it would be good enough for a full heal since it's missing boonduration and healing power is just a minor stat), the two other options are meh, here's why: on the first one you'd kinda want expertise instead of vitality, if you want to play a "mixed" dps with condi and powerdamage. I don't recall a class that has no need for either precision or expertise, therefore with both missing it kinda isn't dps anymore the last one is ... I don't even know where to begin it's neither dps because the only offensive stat is Power (you can get this already with harriers, that atleast is better heal than the suggested) nor is it a full healequip because the only stats for this are minor (and even more minor cause it's a 4 stat instead of 3 stat like with harrier), if you want a safe option go with 2 boonheals instead of 1 boondps and 1 boonheal, usually the utility is higher that way aswell- so if the group needs safer option that is always a possibility. If just you need a safer option for yourself and not the group, just don't play boondps yourself or go with another one that has it baked in already (like a condiboondps that uses ritualist). Boondps in general works like: take fulldps gear and replace just the amount of stats for boonduration you need without loosing out on the dpsstats. Now here are some stats we really need but most likely won't get (because balance I guess, some classes would be too good then): 4 stats: major: condi / healingpower + minor: concentration/ expertise major: condi / precision + minor: power/ expertise major: condi / precision + minor: concentration /expertise major: condi / expertise + minor: precision / concentration major: condi / concentration + minor: precision /expertise major: power /precision + minor: ferocity / concentration major: power / ferocity + minor: precision / concentration major: healingpower / concentration + minor: vitality / precision (anything but toughness really) 3. stats: mayor: healingpower + minor: concentration /vitality mayor: condi + minor: expertise + precision mayor: condi + minor: healingpower + concentration (condiharrier basically) mayor: healingpower + minor: condi + expertise mayor: healingpower + minor: condi + concentration

If only that was the case we would not even be talking about it I believe (atleast not to this extend) , cause ya know then they would be a real legendary, work like every other and this thread would be unnecessary.

I'd actually be okay with that aswell, as long as they give us a true legendary relic (maybe that's the reason they merged it? would solve the problem of this thread just aswell so who knows)

to sum it up: - Anet took away stats from an already existing item to put them on a new one instead - some made said item that they took them from on a legendary level and therefore futureproof to any additions that may come (Anet seemingly forgot about that) - to keep the outrage at bay they told us we will get a legendary relic but it has to be determined what legendary rune owners will get for progress towards this (if they kept their word, that would have been okayish, still leaving a little bit of bitter taste cause double sell etc.) -later it turns out they will even give it to everyone with just 1 legy rune for free BUT also they won't give us a legendary relic, instead they give us an item that goes into the armory but is NOT a real legendary (because you have to unlock futurestuff first) - (on this one I'm not sure but someone mentioned some relics on this item are not the current version but an earlier one before nerfs? If that's the case they even put themselves in a weird corner with it not working like a legendary item) Personally I see 2 solutions at this point: 1. give us a true legendary relic or 2. give us back our old runes (keep and balance relics accordingly so they are an addition rather than a replacement if you don't want too much powercreep) edit: this was merged so sorry for being offtopic - mine was: Please give us our old 6th Runebonuses back since apparently you don't want to give us a Legendary Relic

There used to be a really good (and very easy/accessible) riflemech but some weren't happy peepos could easily do dps and at ranged (the outcry was horrendous to me because I actually enjoyed the easy pugging that came with it during that time) so the build got balanced/nerfed/destroyed over time. What I'm getting at: those types of builds were not wanted neither by anet nor some (maybe even most?) of the community, what I can't wrap my head around is why "builddesigners" apparently don't talk to "encounterdesigners".

so it really is a typo? nice ty for adressing it

No, they don't. Relics are part of gear, not build. (Anet even made a clear distinction themselves between those two, mostly to double dip with the template system) Because of the backlash it got changed, correct. But you can only do that if you played enough beforehand (no matter on what class) and invested huge amounts of gold to craft the legendary gear aswell. With the new relic they call legendary but isn't you can't do that- no matter if you played the class before or the game enough to get legendary gear. Kinda the whole point of this debacle. apples vs. bananas // gear vs. builds , and btw even if we just talk relics and not the specific case of legendary - because that is what you have to look at cause there is no "legendary elite specialisation", it's no gear. Last but not least- we don't know yet exactly how restrictive the normal relics (or the unlock for legy) will be, but I don't think there is anything less restrictive than earning hp for unlocking elites, they are as easy and straightforward as it gets. If the current relics are anything to go by- earning hp is way less restrictive (kill one single mob or press f (hp) vs. give npc 250 currency or do this and that specific achievement with maybe even 5-10 tasks (1 single relic)) Maybe this could be a direction for compromise between anet and playerbase though? To unlock the new relics you gotta buy the new expac, but if you do they will be available immediately? Like you know all other legendaries are anyways, because that is usually kinda the point in making them, especially runes. Why especially runes: Even if you take the older not so inflated price they were around ~300 gold?, so full set (let's be realistic it was always about the 6th runebonus + the convenience) ~1800/2100g ... seeing that even the most expensive runes were around 10-15g, the most used ones more around 2-8g and many good and also often used ones even way under ... you'll never break even. I doubt many people would have even bothered if those changes were made known at the time, or will bother much in the future for that matter. Maybe when the prices drop really low again one day.

I do believe it is the last one, and that's also the one I believed most of the "we" to argument over, but someone earlier pointed out that this also means (hidden but included) for being able to do that potentially uninteresting content you have to firstly BUY it aswell and made that out to be the worst point of it (and potentially the reason for the change? I dunno) - anyways that was where that elitespec reference came in that I answered to. This whole 19 pages topic is really weird though in general. This change has so many layers (of wrong) that affect different players in different ways, I guess that might be the reason.

Well, first off all I didn't even consider that, but let's go with it: The reason you are overpowered in OW despite being downscaled is mostly the access to more (3 instead of 1 or 2, depending on where you are) and better (elite) traitlines, weaponswap, all skills available, etc. So it would solely depend on how they would do the raisinglvlcapstuff and what powercreep it would entail exactly. As said before, I don't think they ever will and while I'm personally not that opposed, I'm not really a fan either (otherwise I would be playing other games instead of this one). But going on with the possibilities for my earlier and absolute random example of 5k to 20k to happen: if they raised the cap and gave you access to a 4th traitline, maybe even a better one (superelite) maybe access to another superskill or something, whatever floats your boat and down the line of say 3 xpacs with raised lvlcaps and powercreep: voila you are there! Content made sorta irrelevant! Btw the exact reason that it's not gonna happen, they won't do that to themselves and also as someone else pointed out it also may kill the game.

(I know it wasn't directed at me but anyways:) No of course not, they were a) content in itself in my opinion just like weaponmastery or the new weapons are, they were not part of legendary gear in any way (apples/bananas) b) you were able to have them unlocked as soon as the expansion dropped and not only after the first playthrough or whatever achievements - there are always enough hp in coretyria+ former expansions to have them ready to go instantly But ofc I do see that this was mostly focused on the "having to BUY the expansion to get access" thing, I'm not even sure that that is the biggest issue with the current change, to me it really is more the "don't get access instantly even if you bought it" thing - but yeah they should just behave like any other legendary gear and be available (even if you didn't buy but as I said, not my biggest complaint).

The way I understood besides ofc the "more generic" approach (like kill any worldboss, break xy breakbars, dodge x amounts of time, etc.), some additional variation may be that they offer options based on expansions owned (like either do kaineng or vabbi or octovine or amnytas meta- and depending on what expansions you own you get more choices whereas someone only owning eod could only do the first - but you can't get credit for all 4 because it is just one objective combining more options to finish it). No idea if that is correct or just my imagination, guess we will see next week.

Personally I wouldn't even be against LVL cap raising and new gear lvl introduction (that would make old content very easy, maybe even easy enough that anyone can make it, like the nowadays 5k Hi DPS would then be 20k+ maybe?) BUT only if they keep legendary gear always on the top gear stats as they promised ofc. I wouldn't be too opposed to grinding to the new lvlcap, I will not be okay grinding new gear after investing more ressources than ever would have been needed for any gear in legendaries whatsoever. They won't do any of that though because if they make all old content kinda oneshot, they need to deliver good new content in even bigger amounts than they can ever deliver.

agreed, additionally the relic is not really something new they just invented and added - it replaced the 6th runebonus, so ofc it is expected to behave in the same way the former legendary item did (or would have done if it hadn't been deleted to make it a relic instead). If it was something they newly added on top of everything existing, sure we may have that same conversation (because it would still be a step in the wrong direction) but it would be on other grounds and most likely not as heated (because it would not be about something they deleted from already existing legendary gear).

Actually the easiest and most fair way for everyone would have been for Anet to not "come up" with something completely new - if they want to remove 6th runebonus and change them to relics to make them not bound to runestats anymore they could have just done that. What I mean in detail: they could have removed it and made it into a relic and if you have 6 legendary runes unlocked in the past, present or future that also unlocks a legendary relic (and I mean a true legendary relic not some conditional dogpoo thingy they call the same but isn't). This way they wouldn't even have to implement a new recipe for one etc., it would have always been 6 legy runes give you this. They could have just done what they wrote in the very first announcement without all the additional hassle- just make the (former 6th rune) bonus freely chooseable outside of equipped runes to have more options in combinations.

Oh however did we all manage without more than one equipment template to begin with (before templates were a thing that was normal for years). To be fair, arc used to have a much more convenient solution to this than what was implemented, but you had to carry all that stuff around in your bags regardless, unless ofc you had legendary equipment on every character (but very few people had because armory wasn't a thing then either). The way I see it you can either buy more equipment templates or character slots to solve the issue (wich was the solution prior to templates aswell, on top of 2 templates you also get 5 bagslots on the character slot- btw cheap 20 slot bags are okay for everything if you take this solution), if you don't want to use real money there's always converting gold to gems. But i doubt anet is gonna change much on the situation since their income depends on it.

Assuming you are talking about the elite weapons that need a collection and not the legendary aurenes (gen3)- both of your examples have absolutely nothing to do with legendary gear and are absolutely fine and not what myself or anyone else in this thread is talking about. As for the turtle and the strike...remember the outrage that made them change it to not needing the strike anymore?

Actually while it does matter "how much" you have to do for the unlock in practice, in theory it doesn't. The fact they want to change the way legendary equipment behaves in general is bad and a step in the wrong direction. They could just aswell leave it be (the way all others work) and just add interesting rewards other than gear (like a nice skin) to the achievements related to the relics, or even just the AP. Some will be done by a person owning the legendary and some won't because they are not interested in either the content or the reward, this in itself is NOT an issue. Getting new content that people are not gonna be interested in itself however is an issue, this change seems to be suggesting that sadly (why else would they insist on legendary owners having to do it anyways?- if the content in itself would be interesting there would be no need for that) What with this change becomes a big issue is the no longer existing freedom of trying out new stuff as soon as an expansion hits, wich to some is the most interesting part of even buying said expansion. Like in the past with new elites or new gearcombinations or even new runes (provided the expansion even had them... looking disapprovingly at you EOD!). Also what this means is adjusting to a new meta will likely take even longer than it already does, if even the hardcorest guys can't start straight at the golem but have to play through stuff first. BTW have you noticed that there aren't that many left anyways? Some may even only come back for exactly that part (new benchmarks) and nothing else- meaning if they can't do that anymore in the future (cause you know they can't with not having relics unlocked and not wanting to be bothered with content)... there will be no new benches for some classes maybe or atleast way later. I really don't know this for sure, it's just a guess. I like some trying new stuff out instantly myself so that is why it bothers me personally.

You can already do that by using the ascended stuff though, wich is also much cheaper than legendary - or from my perspective you already have to do that if you don't have legendary gear (to me that was a point for getting it). So yeah I am a little mad since the 6th runebonus that was taken was futureproof, I was already a bit bummed when EOD didn't introduce new runes to get some use out of it. I'm just not sure if I might enjoy the new crycontent even more (btw depending on what we have to do I'm not excluding myself from crying about it).

Just imagine if you had to do HTCM to unlock the stats on your legendary backpacks... this relic specific thing beats one of the purposes of even having a legendary -> to futureproof against geargrind. And if any of the things you have to do to unlock is even remotely difficult it is futureproofing crying on forums even more ... not sure yet if I'm more excited to see that or more annoyed that geargrind finally found a way into legy gear. As for the one rune gives a free relic ...fine idc, but I wouldn't have either way (had many mats accumulated and ~3k gold set aside for getting it even if 7 runes wouldn't give progress in any way) BUT if this is the point that made you bind the futurestuff to unlocks - I'd rather pay full price for the legendary relic and have it be truly legendary.

Yep, agreed and also if they are not going for legendarys they might be more interested in buying the ascended weapons and armor with their wizardcoins instead of stuff to sell on the TP. Plus more casual players (timewise casual is what I'm referring to) that got them passively in the old system might not even get enough wizardcoins to have leftovers after they got everything they are interested in. On top of all that, many just don't care about gold much (why would they if not interested in the expensive Legendarys or Infusions or other skins that are expensive because they require MC like mystic weapons, Nightfury or the ones that look like guardian/mesmer weapons).

I get what you are saying (edit @Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 ), but another thing to consider is: most people don't even sell their MC in general nvm if earned over time or in one go. If you make the system more annoying for most players (and btw also for the few ones that do sell their MC). Not everyone who had 50+ altaccounts is even doing the WV stuff each circle on every alt to get MC to sell, but the few ones that still use their alts for that (rotate log through them + play every other week to collect astral -instead of log in all of them every day and just collect rewards -and get the MC and stuff for the circle). This change would even lower the number of players still doing that and putting up with the new systems on altaccounts (wich are the ones more likely to even sell MC, because their generation is higher than their need for the mainaccount will ever be). If they have to put up with another timerestriction on top, their number will likely go down even further (just a guess though, I only have 2 altaccounts and am always glad when I'm done with them for the circle, if I have to be forced into timegates even more and can't just divide my time on them how I see fit- I'd likely not do it anymore and buy more MC instead of generating them for myself 😉 ) For every normal player it is never nor has it ever been a good idea to sell MC in general, cause at some point they needed to rebuy them. Even less need to sell with WV because that one generates gold more than the old system ever did.

MC used to be around 3 gold if i remember correctly until they dropped with EOD release (because gen3 needed way less clovers than 1 and 2 and also not additional MC like gen2), kitten (edit thats antique summstones lol) started off way high then dropped to around 9 gold each for a pretty long while until they reached the relatively stable point they are now at. This all may change if they add gen3 kits instead of gen1 to the WV and depending on what exactly that kit contains kitten (edit again thats antique summstones lol) will go down or up but MC would definitely go down compared to now.

Please don't, the only thing that is going to achieve is making the WV more annoying nothing else. The demand is simply going up due to (not necessarily in that order): 1. legy relic is on the horizon and we don't know what will be needed exactly so chances are even ppl who wouldn't need MC otherwise won't sell them atm unless they need gold very urgently 2. legy PVE armor will need MC (atleast in the form of converted to clovers) and my guess is many are already collecting stuff for those 3. legy weapons were made available through WV either to make them and sell or (and this may be the bigger group influenzing MC prices) players who couldn't afford those weapons before are making them for themselves now that they are less of a struggle, so instead of selling their MC they now not only keep them for themselves but are also more inclined to buy some extra. 4. clovers got reduced by WV and due to the price of MC being low (under 3gold) combined with the price of t6 being relatively high - gamba is not as bad as it used to be once upon a time ... you still won't turn a profit but the loss isn't that bad considering you'll get clovers out of it (as long as you still need them and with the WV Gen1 Legys you need more that for Gen3 so yeah) 5. whatever I may have forgotten 😉

Wasn't that like depending on how many LI you earned in w5 before it got changed to LD when POF released? Maybe I just don't remember because I swapped that stuff back and forth for storage/easy ping purposes (at that time I didn't even want the ring, just made it when the legendary armory was announced and had more than enough anyways by that point I believe)