Tyson.5160

I enjoy the sound, it’s such a satisfying chime!

Good catch. I do enjoy when a theory proves correct.

I think so too, I looked up that Menzies great sword Menzies’s Agony and there is an purple shadow eye near the hilt of the blade, similar to this Sauron eye we’ve been seeing. Coincidence? Maybe.

I’m curious how it will effect raids statistics.

I wouldn’t necessarily call Zhaitan a rampaging beast as he has shown intelligence as well as tactics during the Personal Story. ….. Trahearne: Where did that come from? This was supposed to be our way out. Agent Zrii: The Orrians funneled us here. They've shown disturbingly advanced tactics ever since we arrived. ….. Agent Zrii: Another dead end. Militarily, I'd say we're being funneled into a trap. Crusader Afanen: I've seen the Orrians swarm and I've seen them lurk, but I've never seen them set traps. Are they capable of tactical thinking? Trahearne: Oh, yes. I've seen them do exquisitely horrible things. If the Priory team found the artifact I suspect they found, it all makes sense. …… That being said if you are specifically talking about the final battle, then yes he is rather mindless, however he is also starving. So his focus is destroy and consume strictly because he is starving.

Well Soo-Won is the Elder dragon of Water and Life, so maybe she did create the life.

I mean even with how they combatted the dragons was kinda repetitive, as well. Gather allies, gather intel, kill dragon. Primordus kinda had that, but it was a bit disjointed since some of it happened in S3 and some of it happened in IBS. I need to do a complete replay from start to finish again.

It’s just too bad, that each dragon didn’t get the proper time and dedication, like Zhaitan did and even then they decided to toss in things, like the Shadow sphere of influence.

Well somehow we went from the forgotten advising that we require entities to fill in the vacancies to just needing Aurene, which was just kinda hand waved into the story. Even Aurene and the Commander talk about how Tyria is still around even though the majority of the dragons are gone. Is this purely because of Soo-Won and Aurene. Then we have the talk about if Soo-Won dies the magic will kill Aurene and destroy the planet. I guess, since the extractors sucked the magic into bits, that can be filtered later? I’m just wondering if this vacancies thing is going to play a part in future story. I feel like these topics were not discussed in a satisfactory way for me and were a bit too ambiguous.

I was hoping that EoD, would have explained the balance of magic better. We went from you can’t kill Kralkatorrik or the world ends to replacing Kralkatorrik, to killing both Jormag and Primordus and hoping everything is ok. Now granted I understand that the magic that should have ended the world was contained in Jade, I just wish they explained it better, because even now, when I talk about it, I’m still slightly confused on the situation.

I think some of the issue here is this lore isn’t a science. You can use evidence from the story to make points, but at the end of the day even that can’t be trusted, especially since there are so many writers as well as generations of writers. Kinda as if you have a set trilogy of books, but each book has a different author. Very similar to a long lasting tv shows that stumbles over the lore due to so many writers and it’s length. Sometimes you even get that on long running series with the same author, who may have forgotten a small plot point or whatever. At the end of the day it’s a form of entertainment and shouldn’t be taken so seriously.

From my understanding PoF and S3 were being worked on at the same time. So it doesn’t surprise me that these themes were there. We’re the idea of the void itself completely flushed out by this time? No probably not, but I believe the concept was there. By the time S4 came they were already on the Soo-Won of being mother.

I think the general rough concept of the void has been around since S3 when the elder dragons started to take each other’s abilities. Not necessarily the name, “the void”. The concept of one dragon having command over all the other dragon magics. You would think by the time you get to the last dragon that this would be the case. So in a very generalized, rough kinda of way, the void has been planned. To quote Caithe from Dragon Vigil in S3: Caithe: So when we kill a dragon...? <Character name>: The others absorb the loose power. Caithe: Then I suppose we must kill them all before any one grows too powerful. <Character name>: Seems like an increasingly difficult task... Caithe: Indeed.

Hmmm getting some The Exorcist vibes…

I get that to a degree, but you would think that with how obsessed Jormag was with Primordus, that it would have thought of creating Frozen thousands of years ago, after Primordus attacked Jormag last time. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shards_of_Jormag or perhaps introduce it in S3. They probably didn’t have the foresight if it was in fact a natural Jormag ability. The Frozen feels extremely rushed, had very little screen time or real set up. I mean, it makes more sense if it was a new power from Kralkatorrik, problem is, they never explained that. My guess, another casualty in the breakneck speed that IBS had to be concluded to prepare for EoD. In terms of Soo-Won, didn’t they show in the latter Future of Jade story mission that Jade had all the dragon magics in it, before we saw her in the reactor. I think even Soo-Won said something about it in the reactor too. Soo-Won: This place...it manages the flow of magic between me and Tyria's ley lines. <Character name>: Manages? Soo-Won: Joon used a different word. "Modulate." Soo-Won: She takes the magic I shed to make new dragonjade. It's been a most harmonious arrangement. <Character name>: Wait. The other Elder Dragons. They... We killed them. Some of that magic went to Aurene, but the rest... Soo-Won: Returned to the web of ley lines, and then to me. You did what you had to do, but I can't filter the magic alone. Probably another error, I don’t know the whole thing is getting harder and harder to keep track of.

Uhhhh any last ditch effort with little chance for success. When playing PoF or S4, show me where the Fury is announced or described… it isn’t. It wasn’t until this magazine came out https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/september-04-2019/ That we were even told what the domain was, after Kralk was dead. The narrative team didn’t have the confidence or just plain forgot and it wasn’t until afterward that they went oh kitten we forgot to put that in, uhhhh I guess he was the Fury dragon too… What I’m saying is they did a terrible job of explaining what Fury, Destruction or even Shadow spheres actually do because I don’t even think they really know, however they had to put something in there as they already established that each dragon had two spheres, which I think in the long run was a mistake.

Sounds like the crystal domain to me… not Fury… in fact harmonization doesn’t remotely even come close to anything describing what Fury is, but again how would anyone know, since Fury was some sort of Hail Mary after Kralkatorrik died to give it a second sphere of influence, which is another failure in the story. The Frozen do come out of left field. Why did Jormag need two Asura to figure out that it could create Frozen? The game doesn’t explain or even hint at it until we are about halfway through Champions, it would make more sense if this was a new ability that Jormag gained from Kralkatorrik, but again that wasn’t stated or hinted anywhere. I listen to the npc dialogue, I comb through each of the dragon minions hoping to see some sort of combat ability or hint at to what these spheres of influence do. There aren’t any and unfortunately the story did not explain these spheres enough to be honest. The narrative team should have stuck with a more simple concept. Zhaitan is the Death dragon and death only. Mordremoth is the Jungle dragon, etc. I think they wrote themselves into a corner and did a bad job of explaining things.

I would disagree. I think it’s a big mess. Where did you acquire this interpretation of the Fury Sphere? Jormag’s Frozen came suddenly out of left field. Is it a new ability learned from Kralkatorrik? Did Jormag always know how to do this? I’m fine with reading between the lines, but a lot of the story is non existent when it comes to these points.

I guess the real issue here, since arguably the very beginning of the game is the Elder dragon lore hasn’t been consistent. Zhaitan begins as the death dragon until Season 2 when now he is now described as the dragon of death and shadow, since Anet decided each dragon needed a second sphere of influence for Mordremoth’s mind sphere to make sense, which if you think about it, wasn’t needed. That being said we don’t really have a description for what the Shadow sphere actually is, yes there’s speculation, which I also contributed to, but nothing concrete. Then we learn post humerus that Kralkatorrik’s second domain is Fury, which again, no description of what that is or what it does. They had opportunities during PoF and S4 to showcase this, but didn’t… Jormag with Persuasion is shown, but kitten is it ever close to Mordremoth’s mind power. Primordus and the destruction sphere, again what is it, what does it do, we learn about it that Icebrood magazine as well as in a mail during IBS that Primordus is the dragon of destruction ( or was it conflagration…). Then Soo-Won with Life… which kinda makes sense… I guess? Don’t even get me started on the dragon’s using each other’s spheres of influences, because then it becomes even more convoluted. Weird inconsistency with Mordremoth using the death sphere. Kralkatorrik has access to Mordremoth’s mind sphere now, cool! however there is no evidence in the game that really supports or shows this in the game. Same with Primordus receiving this feedback loop from Kralkatorrik… uhhh what sphere is that? When did Jormag figure out after being alive for thousands upon thousands of years that it can make Frozen… Unique dragon weaknesses, remember those? I had to beg for an answer from the narrative team during an AMA regarding Zhaitan’s weakness, which wasn’t very clear. Mordremoth had his, Jormag and Primordus too and Kralkatorrik’s. What was Soo-Won’s weakness again? When I kinda go over all this in my mind it just feels like it makes next to no sense… Am I just being an idiot here trying to construct some sort of reasoning out of this mess of dragon lore?

I guess persuasions works for Icebrood since that is how Jormag corrupts. Destroyers created from fire and earth, but usually through destructive means, rumbling piles of molten lava, meteors, etc. Death is kinda obvious. Branded and Fury, guess they could be furious. I’m reminded of Fury of the Brand, which is an odd name to name an environmental effect. Oddly enough, I can think of two occasions that Branded talked, perhaps they are in a constant state of anger? Would be nice if someone on the Narrative team could shed some light now that the dragon cycle is over.

Thinking about it more, if Death was a secondary sphere, they all kinda line up with the dragon minions. Destruction for Destroyers, Death for Risen, Persuasion for Icebrood, Fury for the Branded. The only on that doesn’t really fit is mind for Mordrem. It kinda works for Sylvari, but not the run of the mill Mordrem. Also unknown if Soo-Won’s Life would fit either.

It’s seems that with the weapon collections, they seem to emphasize, the elemental connection first and then the secondary sphere as well… second. It seems to be very consistent through the weapon collection texts as well, especially the titles gained from the collection. I smell a retcon. Gets me thinking as to whether Shadow is considered an elemental in this universe.

You are correct, my mistake.

According to the new Aurene legendary title it’s the Facet of Fauna and Mind now. Go figure. I really wished we had more insight into the less obvious secondary spheres , Fury and Destruction, come to mind.

Oh I agree that original pairing of Zhaitan/Mordremoth, Jormag/Primordus and Soo-Won/ Kralkatorrik is the bigger theme to focus on, just thought it was a bit interesting on these secondary spheres a slight pattern too.