Konig Des Todes.2086

I'm extremely skeptical of that.

I don't think you understand what people mean by humanizing. It isn't the quarreling factions, it's the familial ties for a group that has been stated to be born out of spawning pools; it's the human-like behavior for things that don't even have mouths and joined limbs; it's the kindness when we've been told for 18 years that demons are born out of literal malicious emotion and energy. These aren't "alien cultures that have things all cultures have" it's "humans but they just look different". Not really about being unknowable - it's about being not humans. You can be a culture of aliens without being humans in everything but appearance that contradicts all previous lore presented about the species or group. For the Titans, I said one of the two biggest elements was their aesthetics being otherworldly. Otherworldly doesn't mean "unknowable", I was meaning "not natural" - animals naturally evolve to have an even number of limbs, sans unusual mutations, and the addition of a single leg on the titans turns them from otherworldly, unnatural looking creatures with 3 legs to just towering beasts with odd but natural leg design.

Not to mention that Jennah stated her father had trade relations with the lowland kodan. They weren't actually isolated, they just kept to themselves. Bit of a difference.

Just EoD? Let's face it, it's been an issue for all of GW2. Orr and chapter 8 was rushed and broken at several places on launch, resulting in a poor Zhaitan fight among other things; HoT had a lackluster final act, as did PoF. Gyala, Champions, and Nayos was very lackluster too, though it's hard to call that "ran out of time" but it was still resource management issues. Part of the issue of this, and the constant contradictions in worldbuilding lore, stems from how ANet is a rotating door company. I don't think we've had a single writing team of the same writers, or same team lead, for more than 3 years. And this is ironically despite individuals like Bobby Stein and Matthew Medina being around since GW1 days.

If Menzies returns, it won't be for Janthir Wilds. I dunno, Ura feels Eparch-levels of big bad in comparison to how SotO sets up the enemies. As to them calling themselves godspawns, might be tied to how the Titans were made by the Foundry, though per GW1 lore they predate the Six Gods' presence on Tyria by all indication.

Well, yeah, "rushing it" would be problematic, but that doesn't mean it takes hours or would be risky under normal circumstances. No. The event chain ends in them lighting a fire to call in a chopper, but because there's so much luggage they could only take one servant and the nobles are left behind (said chopper then crashes in SCAR Lane, where said servant and pilot joins the Scar warband. The waypoint there is never once referenced in the event line dialogue.

It is certainly possible. Since he was allied with Abaddon and Dhuum, he should be aware of the Foundry - if it is being used again. And his return was foreshadowed in SotO very briefly. To add to the confusion, Kormir rules over the Realm of Torment post-GW1 and as we saw in Path of Fire, it was converted. The Domain of Anquish's entire point of the elite mission was to bring it back under Forgotten (and thus Kormir's) control. And although Kormir's depature allowed demons to invade her sanctum, it was confirmed in LWS4E4 that it was recovered and was being used as refuge from Kralkatorrik. So makes one wonder how control of the Foundry was again lost....

Yes, exactly. They look good, don't get me wrong. But they don't give the same feeling as in GW1. They don't feel truly otherworldly. Greer's introduction was great. Other than the ridiculous "Strangers" nickname that I'd argue makes zero sense and feels like something you'd give to an unknown humanoid or other urban legend kind of creature ala Slenderman and not an otherworldly eldritch monstrosity (no matter the setting or niavety of the characters, nobody would decide to nickname Chthulu or similar beings as "Strangers"). To me, The Bog Witch is a "stranger among lands" while the titanspawn are well beyond that. But back to point: Greer's introduction was great, and so was the fight against him. Except for the "powerful and large minion" not being a mid-tier titan, and Greer looking a bit too Tyrian native. The Branded Riftstalker looks far more unnatural than Greer does, and it's a creature of (formerly) flesh and blood. The amber core actually doesn't bother me all that much as it makes sense for any creature to have vital organs of some design. Nothing is truly perfect, after all. And yeah, the lore is definitely pointing out the extra leg and titanspawn as progeny is an evolution from over the past 250 years. And the finale of JW (just finished it) is giving not-so-subtle hints that Mabon may be related to this evolution and/or Ura in general. As to these titans being of the same group freed by Khilbron - doesn't the story indicate that is not the case?

The bigger question is why are Isgarren and Waiting Sorrows acting like the Titans can only come from the Foundry of Failed Creation, or that the first time Titans existed was during GW1, when GW1 was pretty explicitly clear that it wasn't the case. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Aurus_Trevess https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Relkyss_the_Broken https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Captain_Jerazh With the sole exception of this human, all the DoA NPCs make it very clear: the Foundry of Failed Creations was created by Dhuum. Now, how does this conflict with Isgarren and Waiting Sorrows? Independently, it doesn't. But you get these two dialogues as well... Ancient Seer: "I wish to see this to its end. Over the eons, much has changed in Tyria. But not these Titans." https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hell's_Precipice#Intermediate_dialogue In normal mode: "Titans, ancient creatures dating back nearly as far as my own kind, have broken free of their imprisonment. While they plague this realm, many Margonites escape us. The forces of light must stop these Titans. Do you have the will? Will you take up the mark of the light and fight? In hard mode: "Titans, ancient creatures dating back nearly as far as my own kind, have broken free of their imprisonment. Worse yet, they grow more powerful, stealing energy from the land to give themselves even more stamina and strength. A curse upon them! The forces of light must stop these Titans. Do you have the will, oh great hero, to help in this desperate quest? Will you take up the mark of the light and fight? https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Forgotten_Warden The Fury had only "recently" broken free of his chains and "sundered its surroundings, only to reassemble them to mimic the twisted visions trapped inside its cruel mind" to create the Foundry of Failed Creations. But according to the Ancient Seer (who is probably Sidony) and the Forgotten Warden, the titans are eons old, as old as the Forgotten species, and seemingly as old as the mursaat-seer war. Meaning they'd be older than the Six Gods' presence in Tyria. So either the Fury predates the gods and chose to serve Dhuum after the Six arrived, or Titans predate the Fury. In either case, the Titans definitely predate the Foundry of Failed Creations as it was used by the Fury to create the Titans of GW1. So by all rights, Isgarren and Waiting Sorrows should have been around when Titans first roamed Tyria long, long before the events of GW1. Yet they seem to act like the events and locations of GW1 is the only origin point and timeframe of Titans' presence...

The extra limb might be explained with lore, but that doesn't exempt it from the fact it feels more natural and less otherworldly which is my issue with the fourth leg. The current titan looks like it can be reused readily for other creatures that naturally exist in Tyria, while the GW1 titan felt like it was some otherworldly, alien thing, simply because of its odd number of limbs and unusual way of walking due to said number of limbs. And they're pretty close to the same size scaling tbh. And yes, I recognize Greer is a rotting titan. I noticed that immediately from the promotions. That doesn't change the fact that I feel his visuals are less otherworldly - not a bad design, just too different from GW1 titans IMO. And I know I'm not the only person with this obviously subjective opinion. No? I was pointing out the reuse because of the prior issue of "not feeling otherworldly due to looks and limb count" and was outright responding to someone pointing out that gw1 smaller titans were just imps, elementals, and other reskins. Basically I was acknowledging that the small titans - the low tier titans - are very similar in mechanics and overall aesthetic concept. You clearly weren't understanding what I was saying - whether it was due to my wording or your reading.

The little ones reusing centaurs, ogres, and, I believe gorrila? rigging while looking rocky is fine. I like their designs. It's the appearance of Greer and Decima that I dislike - specifically that fourth leg, because it makes them feel all the more natural. Like it isn't some weird otherworldly creature. And as I said, that was one of the two biggest elements of the titans. Even if Greer and Decima do break down when we finally kill them, it isn't nearly as impactful because the entire army is just low tier enemies. No mid tier or high tier titans that would break down. So unless Updates 1/2 introduce weaker high tiered titans out of the proverbial nowhere, it still won't feel the same. And the thing is, dialogue even for a historical context, is treating it as if a singular normal high tier titan is a massive threat. And yeah they were dangerous, but their danger wasn't in the individual so much as in the massive army of them on top of. But the constant elevation of expectations over "a single titan" means A) the Prophecies PC is suddenly elevated to god above godhood status in strength because apparently a dragon champion who has slain Elder Dragons that the Six feared is having trouble with these when the Prophecies PCs slew hundreds of them in rapid procession, and B) introducing more high tiered titans later will just demerit all the buildup of Greer and Decima in this initial release. Overall I've been finding Janthir Wilds a major disappointment. There's constant lore contradictions or retcons in the worldbuilding; from an obvious setup for many "good natured murder satans" still alive out there despite the LWS3 Eye of Janthir situation, to lowland kodans being well known to humans and kodans, but yet their history debunking IBS dialogues about norn being the lost kodan tribe as if it were a fact to the kodans, to even the existence of Bloodstone-killed White Mantle ghosts with guns when said guns didn't exist (just when did that Bloodstone explode anyways - another disappointing thing, albeit minor, since it's now written out of the picture entirely - because for those WM ghosts to be proper canon they'd need to be Caudecus' men which would mean the explosion happened post-LWS3, but it seems like it's been exploded for quite some time?). And that's not even going on about how people are treating as if the titans first came to be around GW1, despite all the GW1 lore clearly and explicitly stating that the titans were in Tyria during the mursaat-seer war era, and are as old as the Forgotten. Waiting Sorrows was alive when the titans were first (to players' knowledge) in Tyria, yet she says the "original titan rising" was 250 years ago... Base SotO was very good with its new lore worldbuilding and consistency where the only issues I saw were in Zojja's Journal achievement in Skywatch. But Janthir Wilds is FILLED with those kinds of minor inconsistencies all over the place. Just as Gyala Delves was. Individually minor, but they build up and up and up the more there are.

Lengthy as in several minutes, hours tops. Not exactly something that would be impossible in the IBS narrative to exist, unmentioned. I don't recall any "high risk attached of something going wrong with it" personally - all the risk came from the fact that they were bringing a charr into Ebonhawke under false pretenses from my memory. And yes, "willing to do so without consulting the city" would be a major issue as well, but that's an utterly different matter of "being capable of doing it" as you first mentioned. 😉 So I guess there we are now in agreement. Correct, this is how waypoints function in lore - as well as being a bit unstable to the point of needing to be relocated "seemingly randomly" (read: because they run off ley-lines which asura didn't confirm the existence of yet because until Zhaitan's death they weren't so numerously and tangibly visible). But even simply needing to be at the waypoint physically to use it wouldn't stop at least half of the narrative "we are isolated" story beats from being instantly solved. In general, treating them to exist after the story works, but at the same time, after the story there's no reason for them to be placed there either! Which continues the conundrum but in a slightly different manner.

ArenaNet took the two most fascinating things about the titans - their otherworldly, unnatural odd-limbed form, and their ability to break down into smaller incarnations because they aren't just powerful individually but create powerful smaller selves on death forcing prioritization - and removed them completely from their GW2 iteration. It's very disappointing. I get why they did this - a more natural looking rig would be usable again later so ideal resource management; they wanted to focus on a few important powerful individuals and that'd be harder to do if we're constantly killing them - but it's just thoroughly disappointing. Janthir Wilds doesn't even include any proper mid-tier Titans, it's just low tier and 3 high tier Titans, despite dialogue talking about "bigger titanspawn" and the potential to have at least mid-tier titans that spawn smaller titans present. Hell, they could have kept the "few important powerful individuals" as Armageddon Lords and thus still allowing high tier titans that break down on death to smaller selves. So despite Titans being my #1 favorite group in GW1, from aesthetics to mechanics, GW2 went and destroyed all of it. Sadly, I was left unsurprised by this revelation. This said, while I haven't finished Janthir Wilds as it's hard to motivate myself to finish when Act 2 is FIVE ALMOST BACK TO BACK map exploration steps; seriously who's brilliant idea was it for Act 2 to be open world dialogue -> exploration -> open world dialogue -> heart -> open world dialogue -> heart -> good instance -> open world interactions -> dialogue instance -> open world events -> whatevercomesnextI'mnotthereyet ??? That is terrible, the first Act was so much better pacing, this was just bad, especially since there are moments, like using lightning rods on magic rocks, that come out of nowhere, no dialogue explaining it just "go do this thing too now" in the objectives. Digression aside, I haven't finished JW yet, so I haven't met Uwu or Uru or w/e the name is. Decima's dialogue, however, didn't feel overly humanized. The only humanizing element of Decima's behavior was calling Greer her brother which seems... odd, but not exactly opposed to GW1 lore. She could easily mean brother from the same forge, like how sylvari all call each other brother / sister (despite also making sweet sweet eros to). The voice choice however... not the best. The words are fine, but the voice was almost Factions level decision making there. I think I might've actually preferred Danika from Factions voicing Decima, in fact. Nothing actually says the Titans are "100% artificial". While, yes, the specific titans of GW1 were made by The Fury, a servant of Dhuum, using tormented souls in a undefined ritual, nothing says they couldn't form naturally. Gorseval, as Narcemus points out, very much appears like what seems to be a naturally formed titan. And In GW1, there are talks about how titans were ancient enemies of the mursaat and Seers, as old as the Forgotten themselves, but largely unchanged since then. These times predate the Six Gods - and thus the Fury and Dhuum - as they were on Tyria. So logically speaking, the Foundry of Failed Creations - which was NOT the sole source of Titans, just where the Fury settled to twist the landscape into a place to work - was only a place that refined the natural Titan creation process.

The existence and usage of waypoints between mechanics and lore has always been a bit weird. Like for example, the nobles at Noble Ledges in Verdant Brink - or the entire plot of Verdant Brink and recovering Pact soldiers and sending them back to Camp Resolve for recovery makes no sense the moment you take into account the waypoints' presence. Same with Bloodstone Fen, Ember Bay as mentioned, and many others. Similarly, the existence of waypoints in many maps like all of PoF and LWS4 (and even half of LWS3) doesn't make much sense without assuming that some allies had set them up beforehand. Waypoints are a thing in lore, and like asura gates they don't function the same way in lore as they do in mechanics, but given the story in many maps, there's no way many waypoints we see in-game would exist and still make sense narratively. So generally speaking, I assume the waypoints don't exist unless pointed out in some dialogue or by event mechanics (like Dragonfall literally bringing them to set up camp).

They filled out paperwork going from Divinity's Reach (specifically Rurikton) to Lion's Arch, for what @The Chosen One.5369 was referring to. They did later go from Lion's Arch to Ebonhawke undercover, but it was not because they didn't want it known that the asura can and will shift the gate - this is done frequently in the lore, them being static is purely mechanical zone travel restrictions. This is explicitly stated in Ghosts of Ascalon (Rurikton's asura gate, at the time the only asura gate in DR, would go to different destinations depending on the time of day), in Asura Gate Operator Wikka's dialogue which tells us that the DR gate in The Upper City goes to not just Lion's Arch, but also Rata Sum and the Grove, and lastly, the asura gate in Eye of the North during Icebrood Saga - The Commander uses it canonically to go to various points across Central Tyria to reach places being attacked by destroyers and Icebrood multiple times, but also in Mechanist Ninn's dialogue which is the lore explanation for the ability to unlock access to cities and other places. We even use this in Season 3, where we spend an entire memory minigame to relink the Rata Novus asura gate from going to Rata Sum to going to the one in the dragon lab to keep it secret, and then the story has us relink it (no memory minigame thank god) to the Ring of Fire isles. Basically, it's very common knowledge among asura gate lore that they can be relinked to new locations. By all indications, the asura gates during GW1 were fixed to a single location. In the 250 years since, no doubt because of the events in GW1, the asura have developed asura gates that can be relinked to new locations. Since Rata Novus' gate could be relinked, the tech came about fairly shortly after Eye of the North and Beyond.