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  1. Well that was the question, thats why i said on average. i am not particularly interested in one specific case but broader trends. and i was not really trying to argue that nobody plays just for the gameplay.
  2. Thank you. 🙂 Did my clarification at the begin of page 2 make it clearer what i meant. Your not the first person to say that to me, i dont really know what it is the though. Funilly i also get accused of the opposite, changing my position a lot and not having a firm position on anything. 😛 Gehenna, do you have time? I would like to so how i should have worded it from the beginning. Tbh, this time it was more of a mater of fact statement. That was because i was attacking a specific argument. Maybe i should have started from a less loaded argum
  3. So all those that stopped where not pvping for fun and people do not get bored?
  4. reread what i wrote, because that is not my argument. And funily you have never actually argued against my argument, you have argued against the conclusion. No if a factory needs 100 liters of water to function and you get 30l from four different sources, then turning of any of these sources would should down the factory. That does not mean any of these sources are bigger then the other. No, because , and this is the important one, some of these batteries are easy to plot for and some are not. Also you would just see dropoffs for these other batteries if you plotted for t
  5. Wrong in their argument yes. i hoped it would give more productive discussions on these fora. I was planning to do more of these for different bad arguments that get used, but the response here dont seem like it would be worth it tbh.
  6. I have explained why you cant (atleast if you care about the logic of your argument) This is also missing the point completely, because the singular reason they left, for example they got the armour, is not the same as that reason being the only reason they play the content. It does not, you can pretend it does, but just no. The whole point is that this distinct droppof will happen even if all these batteries are equal. Thats what ive been trying to explain. The reason this dropoff seems distincter then others is because its more easy to plot participation
  7. i agree, my point is that in that content you will still see dips (of varying sizes) after the aqucition of the unique rewards. Because any content has an experition date for most people. Edit: This enjoyable and exciting in itself, most content is that for the right people. And you cant really do it for everyone because people are so extremely different.
  8. Correct, and as i should have pointed out, the second is the only one where we could detect a drop in players after acquisition because its more of a discrete seperation then gold where the amount what people want is way more fluid. Sort of, their are some arguments against that but they are not really relevant for the topic of the tread. Well what incentivices people is extremely varied ofcourse. (which is why we have such diverse "reward" structures, where i use reward in an extremely broad sense) but we are not talking about singular experiences here. This RnG wall doe
  9. Your next sentence contradicts your first. So people do drop out of pvp games eventually, thanks for acknowledging that. Now the kicker, the argument i'm making works as long as rewards extend gametime on averagee. So if pvp minded players do not care at all about rewards, why do you think rewars are added to pvp games?
  10. The third is a result of the the first two statements, you can not disagree with the third if you agree with the first two. The clear cut at li is a good example why the argument you are trying to make does not work. Their are a plethora of different reasons people who raid. Lets make them analogous with batteries with different amounts of power. Lets say a social interaction battery, leg armour battery, reward battery, gameplay battery, excitement battery, and a others battery. now the combination of power of these battery needs to be high enough to surpass some fun
  11. you thank people on average will pvp indefinitly?
  12. Because im a hopeless romantic who hopes that people one day start caring about the logical foundation of their argument. I would like it if people could differentiate between what they want vs what is better for everyone a little more. As an example someone (i think raknar but id have to check) assumed my main motivation is rewards, i assume because they assumed i was arguing rewards are the only thing that matters (as that is what atleast two people in the first page where arguing against)/But that is just not the case, in mmos i mostly play for the friends i made and i play
  13. That is where the argument get used the most and that was what motivated me to write this. But for me it was more about a broader problem that i hoped to adress. Lots of the time people use snappy arguments a lot that seem true on the surface for those that already agree with the conclusion. (Another raid example is : people who want legendary armour are lazy because they dont want to put in the work) But these arguments are not true, and worse people who disagree with the argument in one setting will use the same argument in another setting where they do agree with the c
  14. @Mungo Zen.9364About youre infusion example, that exemplifies the point a lot. The reasons people stop doing something are so diverse ,that just saying look at dip thus it must mean they did not enjoy the content, is reductive at best.
  15. Probably, i was not assuming the strawmen where malicious. Insert horror movie joke here. 😛 As Astral as pointed out, he could only place what i said in some greater picture of debates on this forum and thus did not read what i meant to write. Honestly im not completely sure how much it has to do with my writing style and how much the deep rooted need to defend position that has grown in these conversations.
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