Amadeus.5687

Siege Turtle sadly also suffer from this bug. EoD pets also suffer from poor UI (Not showing the tooltip on beast skills if you pick the beastmaster traits that make it blind, traunt ect.). They also suffer from random kitten like Turtle's beast skill not getting it's CD reduced from the beastmaster trait that reduce it. Like in general EoD pets super buggy, which is a shame, cause they are interesting, in special the siege turtle

There is no vipper stats in sPvP....

Ohhh noooo not poison, which a power build also can apply for the reduced healing effect! What are we to do about it! 😱 /S Healing is no different Vs condi then power. 5k health lost from power is the same as 5k lost from condition. If you heal 5k health you have the exact same result.

Have you heard that this maigcal healing slill you have found, also can help recover health lost to condition Damage? 😱 Shocking right? Maybe with this new found knowlegde you will actaully be able to play the game without feeling like those pesky conditions are sooooo unfair?

a tall order for a PvP community I agree that there is more sources of protection, there is also a lot more power damage going around. Whatever the 3 seconds of protection does more then the 3 seconds of resolution really depends on the given situation? Condition damage does not need to worry about crits, but we need to worry about cleanses. Power does not have to worry about ALL of their dmg being removed from one skill. Like you keep negating how big an impact condition cleanse is. I can play 100% flawless, set up the best condition burst on a player and one click negates everything. If I did the same on a power build that player would be dead. Your right that most builds don't even bother bringing pure condition removal utility; Because they don't have to. There is only a few condition damage builds going around atm. And most specs can easy manage what condition damage that goes around with sigils and trait picks. That's not a matter about the utility necessary being bad, and more a matter about you don't need to. That said both the meta Willbender, Untamed and Mechanist build rocks one (That's a stunbreak on top of it). Also as I mentioned earlier; There is sooo much AoE condition removal going on, that you have even less incentive to pick up your own. 5 condition is a lot, even 3 condition is a lot. And those 3 condition it remove now is also still AoE. 3 condition removed every 8 second can shut down pretty much any condition pressure when you combo it with evades, blocks ect. I mean this is so rich, revenant have been meta since HoT. They have been dominating the roaming damage dealer role every single season. This is the first time they ain't dominant, because Willbender is the same high damage mobility but they completely negate conditions. Which were one of the few things that could give the good ol' power herald some issues. I start to see why you complain about conditions. And looking at the forums, reddit and ingame it seems like most people find Willbender really unhealthy atm. I were simply pointing out that nothing is immune to power damage. That said I agree with this statement. Again this is just... Wrong. Like it's a false narrative. When I play my condition damage ranger I have few key abilities I use to deliver my condition with and the rest of the fight is about trying to setup these key skills. It's not different then power. Like I rely on my hard CC and soft CC as much as the power build to deliver it. Your right that condition damage build over time, they are DoT after all. But they are still delivered by key skills. Take shortbow again; You have auto attack that does bleeding, you have #2 which is your dmg skill, #3 is a defensive skill, skill #4 is a soft CC and #5 is a hard CC. There is not "spitting out conditions" here. You try to land #4 or #5 to close up shotgun with #2. I find condition damage very intuitive to both fight against and as, and I have played it since the game released. Core condition Engineer which I played the most out of everything being no different. As I said earlier; Condition damage is a much about setting up combos as power is. Stability is a much as an issue for condi as power, you need to land your hard CC aswell. Resistance while active negates soft CC completely (beside blind and weakness), soft CC can be easy removed by the abundance of condition cleanse that by far out number stun breaks and on top of that there is plenty of traits that reduce their duration or complelty negate specific ones like immobilize. On top of that you can still take action while under soft CC and use abilities, which gives you room to do counter play. Far more options then hard CC. Power is also dominant cause its simply stronger and far easier to play. When I face a Willbender he can literally just ignore what I do and pressure me to the max. Cause he can manage any Soft CC with F3 and ignore conditions with F2 (being hyperbolic here). The damage you take from power is instant, you don't get a "ahh kitten I missplayed, guess I just press this button to fix my mistakes". You get that vs conditions. With most condition removal being instant you don't even have to stop up, you can keep applying your pressure and just remove what gets tossed back at you. And yes conditions can kill you, you know what also always can kill you and you can't take a counter for? Power. Like what is it with people and being to annoyed about they can actually can die to Dots? You don't get hit by conditions randomly, they don't just spawn out of no where. Just like power skill you. have. to. land. your. skills What are you even on about here with stability? Stability is not a power counter. It's a counter vs hard CC which apply to any hard CC. And why is there no weakness for condition damage? I don't know, why is there no condition cleanse for power? Why can't I just you know press a button to complete negate the last 2 seconds of power damage I should have taken? Power is already by far the more dominant damage type, even with weakness in the game. Heck condition damage suffers far more in meta where there is plenty of support, because they can both negate our damage with cleanse AND recover the damage dealt with healing. Where they only get to heal damage done by power. Also just to finish this; Shadow Shot is an example of the core design of Thief and initiative. They get to spam the same skill over cause they don't have CD's. That's a specific design issue on Thief, not a general argument that be used for blinds in the game. Also you know that you can remove blind... by just doing a auto attack right? I start to feel like this entire topic is just you that have Issue with some specific elements cause of how they impact your preferred profession and try to make it a general problem. Which it ain't. I don't disagree with you that buffing stuff instead of always nerfing stuff can be the better options. But there is plenty of tools counters to condition already in the game.

Yeah both of these skills destroy the bolts from Tainted Bolts. Edit: Whirling Defence also reflects them. Are you sure they aren't reflected?

So you can't bother spending the time to make a prober topic, but expect people to look trough your videos to see you play around for an hour? Very sound logic So the first argument is Protection vs Resolution. Both reduce the dmg by 33%. Protection only works if you have it up the moment the power dmg hits you, are you 1 second to late with it the maul will deal it's full dmg. Resolution works if you have it up when conditions hit you AND you can apply it after the conditions have hit you. It's disadvantage is that it sometimes lack in duration as you say. Yeah that's seems perfectly balanced to me, both have it's weakness and strength Your next is "Complete immunity to power damage" So lets take this one first, what is immunity to power damage really can be,: Blocks Evade frames Invulnerability Skills that reduce power dmg taken to 0 dmg. Both block and Evades function vs condition dmg as much as they function vs power. Sure condition dmg will still tick on you if they got applied before you begin doing those two things. But there won't be applied any new conditions. "but that's different" you might claim; Not really, the 5k you lost instant from the maul attack right before you block is the same as the 5k bleeding you might take doing your block/evade duration. On top of that most condi cleanse is instant so you can apply it doing the block/evade Invulnerability negates both condi and power, it's been years since they changed it so condition dmg no longer apply dmg doing it either Skills that reduce power dmg taken to 0 dmg, is the only ones not effecting condition and you claim "those utility skills" have half the CD of condition cleanses lets take two examples: Warrior Endure Pain https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain 40 second CD Some of the condition removal utility you can take is https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Shake_It_Off!" 75 second recharge, but it got two charges, You can also pick a healing skill like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending with only 20 second CD Ranger have Signet of Stone https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stone 40 sec CD a conditon removal utility could be https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Renewal 50 sec CD Or with elite specs https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mutate_Conditions 30 second CD So your statement is simply not true and here I'm completely ignoring that both of these professions have access to condition removal from trait lines as well. Rangers don't even bother with any of those two signets and most ranger builds have used survival skills + wilderness magic to fix any issue they might have with conditons. And this is me ignoring some of the ridiculous utility skills out there on other proffesions like Tree song https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tree_Song 3 condi removed with a 8 second CD Or some of the insane passive condition removal/transfer Necromancers can get from Spite traitline or Willbender from Virtues. If you mean some professions like harbinger is immune to power dmg because of blinds and weakness... Then I dunno what to tell you man. Go look at a MAT match or something and tell me how "immune" to dmg the harbringer is when a Willbender roll their face into them. There is maaaybe a debate to have about Weakness being to rampant on Harbringer. But that's mostly because of the high burst dmg and mobility that Harbringer have given Necromancers. Necromancers gamewise have been designed with very little evade/block/immunity and have to face tank dmg and try negate it with blinds, weakness and PLENTY of condition removal/transfer. It's really no different then how Guardians have a lot of boons, blocks ect as their active defense. ehhh you pretty much implied it when you claimed condition dmg should not be wary "unlike power because you have to be wary of Weakness, Protection and Blind ". Where you lump blind in with weakness and protection which in fact do not affect condition dmg. But we can let that one slide 😉 That said; It's a false narrative that condition dmg skills are more spammy, rabid, multiple hits ect. Quick successions of attacks is that cause damage whatever it's condition dmg or power damage. You don't see a Harbringer and Willbender "space out" all of their attacks when they teleport to you and do their dmg combo's. Some professions like Warriors suffers more from blinds and ageis because they by design have a lot of big strong single strike attacks. Mean while proffesions like Necromancers and Elementalist suffer less, cause they have more pulsing AoE attacks. But that have nothing to do with condition skills vs power skills, but profession design. There is plenty of single strike condition attacks, just as there is plenty of single strike power attacks. Like wise there is plenty of multi strike condition attacks, just like there is plenty of multis trike power attacks Heck take Ranger just as an example; Shortbow is the condi weapon and Longbow is the power weapon; Longbow have 2 attacks #3 and #5 that don't care about blind. Shortbow have #2 that don't care if in close range. Also I prefer fighting enemies that have active defence from blind over Aegis, simply because there is more counterplay with blind, I can cleanse it before I strike if I really wanna hit with my attack. Edit: Also another dimension to condition removal is how wide spread AoE condition removal have become. Plenty of that going around making it really hard to get condition dmg rolling in team fights at a "high burst" tempo. There is a reason power is the dominant king.

I feel I have to go test it 2morrow to make sure its allwys, but Untamed Enveloping Haze + Juveline siege turtles bubble both destroy the auto attacks

This just shows you don't play condition damage builds and in this thread completely ignore the repercussion that condition dmg face: Condition removal. Condition builds is a playstyle about timing, setup and opportunity as much as power is, if not more. Cause all of you dmg can be negated with a single skill press on most current meta builds. On top of that condition dmg skill also get blinded, blocked, evaded ect. just like power. You say it's not affected by blind simply shows your not "objective and impartial" as you claim in your signature lol.

Maybe, I'm not so sure that's the complete picture tho. The current Willbender and Untamed meta builds do both fill the role of a roaming damage deal, but you have more then one damage dealer on your team anyway. And Untamed trade more favorable against Harbringer which also sees a lot of play. The team that won the EU AT did bring both Willbender and Untamed and those two together nuked stuff. I also think two other factos play in: 1. Ranger being out of the MAT meta since forever, so very few ranger players on the teams that play it. 2. Untamed being kinda a dark horse in sPvP last season. Untamed gotten a lot of hate from PvE players and WvW players (justified I might add), but most of the problem in suffers from in those two game modes does not apply in sPvP. But it gave it a bad rep and no one really played it. in EU Plat1/Plat 2 where I played last season I met all most no untamed players besides Boyce. Where in the new season after the last MAT and a meta battle build people can copy have come up I see them pretty much every single game in Plat. You might very well be right it won't see much play next MAT either, time will tell. But I'm pretty sure Untamed's potential in sPvP have only begun getting explored.

A bit late to the topic, but så since its still going I feel like its worth pointing out that a team with a Untamed actaully where the ones to win the last EU AT. But besides that er did not see much play, but maybe the upcoming AT will have more.

The Untamed builds i posted all do condi + Fervent Force. I use quick draw for shortbow #5 and warhorn #5 that both counts towards Fervent Force. i also abuse the heck out of spile trap and its short cd for it. Also remember that the unleashed pet skills counts as your skills do Fervent Force apply to them for reduction of cd

I think you will get different answers from different ranger players tbh. I feel like you can make valid condition builds for Core ranger, Druid, Soulbeast and Untamed and they each bring something different. Druid can be very oppressive 1vs1 against some enemies that have a hard time dealing with the immobilize spam you can spit out. It can also be super fun in some team fights, dropping some AoE heals, condi clear and AoE stealth. But I feel the 25% stat reduction on pets really limit your options. Iboga as an example is left with barely 12k hp and drops like a fly. In WvW with the way you can pick stats yourself you can have some silly high condition dmg and sustian from healing. You can make some super sustainy condi soulbeast builds that focus on poison + with a bird pet and sword have great mobility and can zoom around. In WvW celestial stats in particular can make boon focused soulbeast super nasty Atm I personally prefer the Untamed, partly because it's new and new is fun. But as I said earlier in this thread it brings some nice new tools that works great in the current meta. The projectile destruction, boon rip and corruption, the instant blind when traited, larger control over pets (Some pet types suffer from this, while other benefit). Fervent Force is also just such a fun trait to make builds around 🙂 I'm not sure whatever I would say it's the "best" of the options and in WvW roaming it certainly lacks the in combat mobility of Soulbeast and it can't match the sustain of the druid. But it got the tools to deal with popular roamers like a Power pew pew longbow soulbeast 🙂

oh yeah for sure, I do love playing druid aswell, and totally get you 🙂 I just wanted to add in that I do think Untamed is valid for a condition setup, in special because the core weapons and traits of Ranger allready create solid condition builds. I'm sure celestial hybrid untamed is valid, I mostly do sPvP these days and celestial sadly aint a thing there.

For PvE Soulbeast ofc is best for dmg. But in PvP/WvW Untamed very much have a role, not as a super high dmg trait tree, but as a more defensive/utility trait tree. If you go condi you go 3/3/1. Untamed brings nice cover conditions and boon rip from the pet unleashed skills. Blinding Outburst gives you access to some very juicy and spammy instant blinds. When you run untamed as condi you don't care much about being unleashed youself, so you enjoy the 15% reduced strike dmg + sustain from ambush attacks. Untamed also comes with stronger pets then druid, both because they don't have the 25% stat reduction, but also because you can control when key skills are used.

I got you covered again, played Druid condi in plat 1/2 the last 3 seasons before untamed! This is the build I used the most, if I were vs other condition type enemies on side nodes I went with http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAUxjlVwsYUMP2JWePlt6SOXaA-z5YfGZqE6VGowB Else http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAUxjlVwmYUMP2JWeP1t6Sk+cA-z5YfGZqE6VGowB Not sure about Druid trapper in WvW, traps ain't as strong in WvW with how large areas you fight on. A classic Bleed druid is super strong tho and you could go something like: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEUiNssA2HzjFyOxy7psVXy5SD-zVZYfRNQGmcwlRBFQlRQvpANgYaD-w Just mashed in some stat types, but like mix in how much condition dmg and exptertrise you can with defensive stats ect. You get the idea. You can also do a setup with Shortbow + staff if that's your gem and stack more healing power, so pluage doctor stats http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAUZlFw+YesQ2JWePpt6Sk+cA-zVZYkRF8GmcwlRBFQvJgPTDIm2A-w

I'd say that Quick Draw is by far the better pick for you 🙂 You don't need long CD's for it to be usefull (While you ofc feel the effect more), but it's also just very strong for getting burst attacks off fast, like Splitblade or Winter's Bite. With dagger off hand Stalker's Strike is a great skill to use Quick Draw on for more evade ect. For greatsword it's great for Swoop if you wanna create some distance really fast, letting you use it in fast succession to each other. It's also very powerfull for Counter Attack, letting you get off your defensive options faster. For WvW pets just sucks in zergs. For roaming and dueling I'd say Iboga can be used for burst setup. Jarcanda or Smokescale are also good options (smokescale for the Smoke Field) But the primary pet should be a high HP pool pet, like the turtle. So it can actually live and stick around for some of the fighting.

It were pretty cool to see, were some dope fights. But I were not surprised about either. I feel Untamed have been sleept on by the broader PvP community this season. But the tools it bring have a big potentiale in the current meta, both as power and condition. The willbender were not that big a surprise after the last buffs it resived. After the patch I saw 1-2 willbender pr team in plat 1/2 rest of the season. It replaces the roaming DPS role of the power Herald.

You have picked Light on your feet, but not using shortbow. Is that a missclick? Or are you making that work without it? Greatsword on a carrion amulet is interesting, i asume in spvp you mostly do duels and side node with the build?

Since people wanna see: The main build I used doing the season where this one: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEU6MssC2HzjRxOxy3JN+Vi43D-z5YfGZKD6VJowB It where the better roaming around option and "safer" since I didn't have to go into the team fights unless I wanted to for doing dmg. I also played around with: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAUd/lVwsYeMK2JW+OpxvSE/eA-z5YfGZKD6VBowB Which had some insane team fight dmg going, but only used it if my team had a support Lastly I played around with the following for dueling and side node: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAUdjlVwWZeMK2JWePpxvSE/cA-z5YfGZKD6VBowB sometimes swapping away from the extra stun break depending on the match up ect. For the pets I ended up pretty much always using Iboga, but tried a lot of different as said in my former post. Turtle and Jarcande being my fav runner ups, but plenty of good options. The worst match up for the two first builds are heavy CC builds, which funny enough often meant other Untamed builds 😅

Cheers for starting a topic about untamed in sPvP, I tbh feel it's being overlooked a lot. Also cool to get tips and tricks from the power side of the table, haven't played power untamed much yet. I will add my experience this season, where I have been sitting in plat 1/2 doing the season solo Q (Beside when I tanked my score testing out the buffs to Mesmer xD) I have been playing condition Untamed, which I in special feel are being sleept on and find rock solid in the current meta. Condition untamed focus more around the pet being unleashed and not the ranger, cause you don't need the bonus strike dmg, you rather want the reduced dmg taken. A key part of getting success is really firing off your ambush skills every 10th second, both because they are powerful, but mostly for the sustain. I use Rending Vines in my build, and it's amazing. The extra boon removal on ambush skills are amazing and the corruption gives you cover conditions or more pressure. I wouldn't mind a larger radius, but I feel this trait is super strong when you use it on weapons with AoE Ambush attacks. Blinding Outburst is also insane and I can't play Untamed without it now. It turns Venomous Outburst into a 10 sec CD instant application AoE blind, that you can use while CC'ed yourself. You can use it for sooo many things; Preventing follow up attacks people use when they get you CC'ed, blinding downed enemies CC skill when stomping, messing up enemies attack combo's on friends ect. Also, I asume most people know it, but the pet unleashed skills for some reason counts as "your" skill CD. So when you use Fervent Force as I do with lots of CC, you can reduce CD on the unleashed skills. About pets: Iboga as a pet is beastly with untamed, cause of Consuming Bites auto attack You are able to stack so many different conditions, in special if you time unleashed pet skills on CC'ed targets. Have been able to put 7-8 different condition on a target alone. It's a glass cannon tho, so I mostly use it in 1vs1 situations or to pull a target out of the teamfight and then hammer it. Turtle is kittening amaaaaazing for a condition build. But the AI on it is horrible, it stops up doing nothing for upwards to 5 seconds and I just hope they soon fix that kitten. The auto attack is also mostly useless missing 90% of the time as you said. But even then; It's bubble is amazing, it's suuuper tanky so you can actually send it in doing a temafight and doing the unleashed skills and it's CC attack is a knockback, which means you can use it to knock people down from high ground or downed people on point out of the point. It's also AoE so it's able to CC everyone trying to ress the target. Can't wait for the Ai to be fixed. Wallow I'm still testing and trying out every now and then. I want to like it and on the paper it should be kinda good for a condition dmg build. It stacks conditions an AoE Knockback attack aswell. But I haven't yet had much succes with it and I feels it's a mix of slow attack animations, a very weak auto attack and low condition dmg. Feels like it shouldn't have been a supporitve pet. Jacarada is also amazing, in special for teamfights and downed players. In general I feel there is a loooot of pets that can work, depending on how good your Micro skills are About the meta Condition Untamed, atleast my build, also hardcore shuts down core guardian support. T he amount of hard and soft CC, boon rip and condition dmg pressure you can apply wrecks them. Countless times I have stripped stability and interrupt Signet of Mercy ress. My build have so far been a solid duelist 1vs1 and team fight DPS. Often doing 300.000-400.000 dmg in a match. It's also able to shut down mechanist side noderes, cause you rip their boons and spew out a lot of condition dmg and CC, which they aren't that good at handling. Condition untamed also complelty dominate the revanent meta builds, which stand no chance against the amount of CC and condition you spew out. Even better you can blind, weakness and eat theyr fury and might, really tanking their dmg. And while necromancers are super strudy vs condition dmg builds, you can still really mess them up when you chain combo CC and high condition pressure on them, they are very weak to CC. Likewise Enveloping Haze + Turtle pet can compelty shut down core necro and Harbinger shroud. Also Lich form for that matter, can't wait for 2vs2 or 3vs3 season this time where I finally can say "F you" to the lich form spam. Like overall I'm really happy about the condition dmg untamed playstyle and there is a lot more I could say. Guess I could do a topic about the builds I have played doing the season if people are interested in that

I assume the build is meant to be run in zerg setups? Not sure I'm digging the deep investment into signets for the extra fury application in that case, in special not when you run solider/knight stat mostly and don't have that much ferocity to begin with. Might be worth it if you were running Valkyrie or more Caviler in the spots were you run Knights now? You don't really need the precision if you go for tactics to get 100% crit chance Heck you could just swap in Sigil of Vision (3 seconds of all hits being crits after weapon swap), if you want a lot of crits. Sigil of Cleansing might also be worth picking up for a very controlled condi cleanse option (3 removed on swap) Another option if you completely swap away from the signets investments, you could go invest in shouts instead, which would give you a better heal in my opinion, a better stunbreak (AoE stunbreak + barrier) and a bit more AoE condi cleanse with a rune swap. I would do something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEE6MsMD2KLkpxcxR7aP+Wi7DD-zRYYSUfVFahUT5Ci6UaUC0tSLnRQPDSVdACYP8acwZE-e I also feel Turtle pet is worth taking when they fix the AI for AoE Projectilee destroying bubble alone. But I find your build concept cool and I can see why it's fun. Haven't been able to check it out proberly myself but; Axe ambush hits up to 5 targets, does it remove 2 boons from each target or only the first? I have kinda asumed it's all 5 targets

I love the fishing minigame so far, having a blast figuring out which spots, bait and day of time to get the acsended and legendary fish. I find the mink game quite easy, havent failed a fish yet. I use A ane D key and just hold them down whatever direktion I want to move. 10/10 gonna become a fisherman instead of commander

What? Ranger have plenty of CC in our kit. Shortbow #5 Longbow #4 GS #4 + #5 Warhorn #5 Off Hand Axe #4 Even Sword have a Daze now from the ambush skill We also have Spike Trap which is a very juciy skill to abuse with Fervent Force. Quick Draw + Fervent Force can be down right nasty

Okay that were fun to watch! I loved the intro looking for something they might have missed and that rocket power co! Big Thumps up from me 🙂