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Everything posted by Obtena.7952
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That's weird ... I'm not here to philosophize with you about why we need balance at all. I'm just seeing someone make sensational claims about specs 'not doing anything good' and 'that's a balance issue' when it's not. If it's deficient and you can't use it to be successful, play something else. Anet isn't going to craft specs with specific abilities because unskilled players can't use them and be successful with them.
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See, here is the problem is that you came in here saying we have a exception to "bring the player, not the class" ... except that's not true just because you think cweaver is deficient in many ways. The balance does come from the content, not what the top performance is of the classes in whatever catergory you want to choose. I mean, if cweaver is deficient ... OK, but it's not because it's some exception to philosophy. In fact, it's an example of the balancing philosophy if it's deficient. YOu can still play it, be successful ... EVEN in teams. Depends lots of factors ... and if what you are saying is true or just sensational.
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I don't know where exactly it performs better ... but it doesn't matter because cweaver doesn't NEED to perform 'better than' anything to be able for Anet's philosophy to make sense or anyone to be able to use it to be successful in teams. You're late to the party here. Just because something isn't 'best' at what you want to do with it doesn't mean we don't have balance. I mean again ... the 'point' of the discussion is that some specs perform 'too good' on everything and some not ... that's not a balancing issue beacuse the content isn't designed so you need to play those 'too good on everything' options to be successful.
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That's not a problem though; some classes are just going to perform better in different encounters. That's completely expected and reasonable. The philosophy doesn't conflict with that either. There are 9 additional people in the team; SOMEONE in that team has CC, numerous people even. That means you can bring a cweaver, play with 9 other people and be successful in those encounters. That has been a truth of this game since team content has been in it. The question is if you need a specific class to complete content in this game. You don't. I mean, obviously you have a problem with the skillset cweaver has ... OK, but that's DEFINITELY not some conflict with the balance philosophy of the game.
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It's not a fallacy to understand that Anet nerfs things that are too strong. The ironic part is that it's the player's themselves making the claim of how strong it is for Anet.
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There is just one simple idea here: If people are using the fact that FH should be baseline because Discipline is a must-have traitline, then that SAME idea can justify FH being nerfed.
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True ... I'm using that statement to simply how much I have to type EVERY time I clarify what my point is. If you want to see what people are ACTUALLY saying, there is a record of it in this thread. That's just being semantic. The bottomline: it's clear people are arguing FH should be baseline because Discipline is a must-have traitline.
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Fair, but I DO think Anet will nerf FH if they agree with the players that say it's OP making Discipline a must-have traitline because it's a reason they have nerfed traits in the past.
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Sure ... I never said it wasn't their decision to make. I'm not pretending everything is fine. I'm more than aware that Anet will do what they want with FH. I think it's just nonsense that people are going to present a justification for baseline FH that is AS GOOD a reason to nerf FH, as if nerfing FH CAN'T be a option Anet takes.
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Sure ... again, I get the argument that baselining FH is an improvement. I know that. I get it. It goes without sayings. Repeating these things to me doesn't change that it's not relevant to my point, which many people seem keen to want to ignore and call me into this thread to argue with me about it once again. If you can agree that FH can be a target for nerfs because it's a must-have trait, you have no reason to reply to me. That distinction doesn't change the fact that Anet nerfs must-have traits, regardless of why it's a must-have. Therefore, people need to THINK about their justification for FH being baselined. Do not convince yourself Anet CAN'T nerf FH just because Warrior is defined by players as the most deficient class. There are lots of instances where Anet nerfs something on deficient classes, even warrior. These points about FH being must-have make do not make FH immune to being nerfed. They make FH a TARGET for nerfs.
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As opposed to people making suggestions that DON'T justify a FH nerf. ... like the fact that Anet has stated Cd reductions being baselined.
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Sure ... you and some other people won't say that ... but lots of people HAVE said it. That's a problem IMO because when people start carelessly saying things and making nonsensical suggestions, that don't help the situation any. But what's funny is that when someone does say FH is making Discipline a must-have trait, the reasonable people that who wouldn't say that don't oppose that logic, like somehow, it's a better argument for baselining FH than simply pointing to the statement Anet made about baseling CD reduction traits as a goal. It's almost like those people who wouldn't say Discipline is OPed believe that grabbing attention to a class with bad suggestions is somehow still good for the class. Weird.
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Why am I concerned about FH being nerfed? Is that a serious question? I'm concerned about it because I think people are right ... Discipline is too strong a choice of a traitline. I think FH has lots to do with that. I KNOW Anet will nerf strong choices to make other choices a stronger consideration. Again, the state of the profession has NOT prevented Anet from nerfing things they want to nerf in the past ... don't convince yourself this is some exceptional case.
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Except this isn't feedback ... it's just people not thinking about the consequences of what they are saying. You can explain all the benefits of Fast Hands being baseline all you like. That's not the problem I have. I'm not denying it would be an improvement; I agree with many of the things people say about how FH baseline would impact the class. My problem is that there ain't no way people are going to sell FH being baseline as a must-have trait in a must-have traitline WITHOUT considering that it could be nerfed for the SAME reason. You people keep explaining to me things I already know and understand. What's happening is that people are NOT receptive to the idea that they are selling a NERF for FH. They just don't want to hear it. That's completely WEIRD considering how we KNOW Anet isn't adverse to nerfing OP'ed traits ... bur sure, everyone keep saying how OP'ed FH is ...
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Good, because it's not my goal to convince you that FH baseline is a bad idea; it's irrelevant what I think is a good idea or not. What I am concerned about here is that people are making justifications for FH being baseline that are the SAME justifications to nerf it.
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Except there shouldn't BE an argument, so it's nonsense for people to argue with me in the first place. If people are going to say FH is OP so it should be baseline, then nerfing it IS also a possibility there and they should stop pretending it's not. I mean, if the goal is more fun ... there are definitely better arguments to address that than "FH is OP so baseline it" ... because I can assure you, that's definitely not the attention you want to grab on something you like.
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That doesn't make sense ... there are lots of 'special' things that can happen to get decent builds that don't involve just baselining random traits that people are addicted to.
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Hold on ... First, I'm not arguing Anet shouldn't make it baseline. That's just you not paying attention to what I'm saying. Second, if that IS my argument and it's pointless that it's OP, then there isn't any argument for making it baseline either, because it's the SAME argument being used by other people to make it baseline. Again, if the argument to make FH baseline because it's 'OP' ... it's the SAME argument to nerf it. That is my problem with how people are justifying FH being baseline.