Obtena.7952

That's right, nothing prevents Anet from doing whatever they want to do. I don't get why you are parroting back to me things I've said myself. What is missing here is that people are SOMEHOW coming to the conclusion that FH being a trait that makes Discipline a must-have traitline excludes it from being nerfed and that it's a foregone conclusion Anet just baseline it. That's nonsense.

Again, nothing here is changing the fact that if people are going to push Fast Hands into Discipline being a MUST HAVE traitline to justify FH being baseline, then it's not unreasonable to think Anet would nerf it. It's not like you win some argument with me and POOF ... suddenly Anet can't nerf FH.

I don't care if FH becomes baseline. What I DO care about is when people make nonsensical arguments to make FH baseline that Anet could regard as a justification for a nerf.

I'm not arguing with you about anything, which is why I'm not answering questions you've asked me about this topic in previous threads. The answers don't change. Again, you called ME out in this thread ... I have no idea what for, other than to try and have another go at me.

That's a weird take: I didn't say Anet shouldn't make FHands baseline just because it's a trait so the idea that Illusionary Persona should have been nerfed instead of making it baseline makes no sense to me. But you know what's interesting is that this is a GOOD example of what I said earlier; Anet historically makes things baseline that are related to the class mechanic. That's why people are arguing with me that Weapon Swapping SHOULD be ANOTHER warrior class mechanic. Yes, I'm aware of that. That goes without saying. The discussion here isn't about whether making some decent things default is a way to address warrior balancing or not. Again, my point here is that if people are going justify FH baseline because it makes Discipline a go-to traitline, then SHOULDN'T be arguing with me that Anet CAN'T use that same logic to nerf FHands. So sure, keep pumping these threads and arguing with me like Anet simply CAN'T nerf FH.

Except this isn't about Anet 'budging' on Warrior mechanic because nothing about what is being asked for has ANYTHING to do with Warrior's mechanic. It's simply about players blatantly asking for power creep. Is Anet handling warrior badly? I see it, I don't think they do it justice ... but people have convinced themselves Anet will dump traits into baseline features of the class to fix that? That makes no sense. That would be exceptional behaviour for Anet to solve problems that way. Here is the best part: Considering the way people are selling the FHands=baseline idea justifies NERFING that trait, the whole proposal is just dumb.

It's only a circle to you because you keep trying to have some irrelevant argument with me. These questions you ask me here ... I'm sure they have been answered before. I'm not arguing with you if making a trait baseline is incorrect. Anet's done it before. My point has NEVER been FHands can't be baseline because it's a trait. If you are 'tired' of discussing this with me (which is obviously you talking a big load of nonsense since YOU called me out in this thread in the first place) ... then stop. 🤡

Sure, there are alternatives people can imagine for the Warrior class mechanic ... but you are wrong when you say there isn't a reason it's not something else. That reason is because it's not how Anet wants Warrior to work. But beefing up the current Warrior class mechanic with more skills is not what the discussion here was about anyways. It was about someone implying Warrior get an ADDITIONAL class mechanic related to fast weapon swapping, obviously with the intent to justify Fast Hands being baseline. I think it's pretty obvious that classes have just one official class mechanic (and not the ones people invent as class mechanics like weapon swapping for Warrior), so it's pretty implausible to me Warrior would be an exception to that just to justify Fast hands being Baseline. Seems to me people are getting pretty desperate to win an argument here.

Pretty much. Why can Warrior only have burst as a profession defining mechanic? Have to ask Anet that. It can be whatever Anet decides it should be and it looks like Anet decided that classes have one defining mechanic. That is what I'm basing my opinion on here.

OK. Let's assume that's true ... ... yet SOMEHOW you convinced yourself they are going to do this one significant thing here by making FH baseline instead of any of the typical solutions they implement based on them 'not doing significant things on a warrior'. 🤡 That doesn't make sense.

I don't get this question ... I think it's pretty obvious the way Fast Hands could be nerfed. I've even gave an example in this thread of how Anet could change it. How does it make sense? It makes just as much sense as the numerous other times Anet has changed a trait so it's less effective. It happens all the time, and it works because making something less effective makes it a less attractive choice. I mean, people are going to CONTINUE to push the narrative that Discipline is a must-have traitline ... but SOMEHOW convince themselves nerfing its traits to make it less attractive as a choice isn't an option to address that. That's just nonsense. It's the TYIPCAL option. Is this the new tactic now? Pretending it's not even possible to nerf Fast Hands (even though there is an obvious way to do it), so the only solution is to make it baseline? No, I don't mean removing FHands at all but now you mention it, that is ALSO a solution we have seen Anet implement to change traits if they are OP'ed. Again, don't get into some mode where you convince yourself any solution that isn't the one you want is simply not an option. That's just not a reasonable expectation for people to have.

Yup, that's true but I'm not here to discuss how builds would get trashed or players would react to FHands getting a nerf. That goes without saying, for any nerf and 'people angry' or 'builds not work' have never stopped Anet from nerfing something before ... they aren't reasons now. I'm simply telling you that you CAN'T ignore FHands nerf as a solution for 'fixing' whatever problems people are using to justify FHands as baseline, especially considering how Anet has behaved in the past. The reason people wish for it is irrelevant to Anet's decisions to make changes. SOMEHOW you think changes making people anger is a reason Anet can't nerf Fhands. That's absurd. Anet make changes that anger people ALL THE TIME. SOMEHOW you convinced yourself FHands is an exception ... it's not.

That makes no sense ... Warrior feeling worse to play without FH does not prove that making Fast hands baseline is 'literally the easiest' way for Anet to solve the problem of low build variety. NOTHING should convince you that Anet won't nerf a thing because it would 'feel worse to play'. That is fantasy. Again, why do you exclude the solution of nerfing Fast Hands if it's making Discipline a must -have traitline and low build variety is a problem with Warrior? You don't get to frame this problem to get the solution you want. That doesn't make sense. It's absurd to think a Fast Hands nerf would not be considered by Anet to solve that problem. If you don't believe this, you just aren't paying attention to how Anet operates for the last 11 years. I mean, you and others are literally justifying a reason for Anet to nerf Fast Hands AND those reasons are similar to ones Anet has used to nerf traits in the past. I don't get how you can't see this, like SOMEHOW it couldn't happen to Warrior because you think it's exceptional in some way. That doesn't make sense ... I would argue it's pretty obvious that nerfing OP'ed traits/traitlines makes other traits/traitlines more attractive to use, especially the MORE they are nerfed. In fact, that's exactly a reason why Anet has made trait nerfs in the past. Simply put ... improving build variety depends ENTIRELY on the changes that are made and yes, COULD include nerfing FHands if it's indeed as influential to traitline choices as people say it is. For SOME reason, you think that what Anet has done in the past isn't an indication of what they could do in the future. That's astounding to me. This is what I hear ... "We want more build variety but we DON'T want it by giving up the thing causing a lack of build variety"

Again, no one knows if FHands being baseline is 'literally' the easiest solution here. That requires insight that no one here has. Again, if people want more build variety and conclude they get that if Discipline was less of a must-have traitline, then it's pretty absurd to think making Fast Hands baseline is 'literally easier' for Anet than just nerfing Fast Hands. Honestly, you are going to believe that Anet taking Fast Hands, making it baseline and creating a new trait to take it's place in Discipline is 'literally easier' than Anet just changing Fast Hands weapon swap CD? I'm pretty sure the amount of work involved with changing the Fast Hands weapon swap CD is MUCH LESS than making Fast Hands base line AND creating a replacement trait. lNerfing Fast hands will just kill all builds relying on it? Yes, that's pretty much the point ... you just told me you want more variety which means you don't want to be reliant on Discipline because of Fast Hands . Why do you think nerfing Fast hands isn't a solution to that problem?

This doesn't make sense ... you say Anet will NEVER fix warrior issues 'enough', but SOMEHOW you think they will put in the work to fix warrior problems 'a bit' m, specifically by making FHands baseline? That's just wishful thinking. Also you SOMEHOW concluded Fhands as baseline is the easiest and fastest way to do that? YOu simply don't know if that's true. Again, if the problem that is to be solved is warrior is too reliant on Discipline because FHands ... making FHands baseline is NOT the easiest or typical solution that has been used to solve that problem of 'too much reliance on traitlines' in the past. The obvious solution is the one proponents want to ignore ... a fat nerf to Fast Hands. How come no one wants to talk about the possibility that Fast hands could be nerfed because of the arguments people are making for it to be baseline? They don't believe it could happen? People don't believe Anet would come to this conclusion themselves? Like they have never nerfed strong traits before?

That might all be true, but game history is an indication of how Anet does things. When Anet makes things baseline, they are related to THE class mechanic. When traits are too strong and make their traitlies must-haves, they get nerfs. These are typical Anet behaviours. There isn't a reason to think Fast Hands is an exception to that behaviour. Again, what you and others are doing here is ignoring the alternatives and staying hyper focused on problems where Fast Hands baseline is some attempt to solve those problems because it's the solution you want to see. What you AREN'T doing is recognizing that those problems, whether it's "warrior = bad" or" Discipline is go-to traitline" ... have more than one solution to them. It makes no sense to say "Oh, we have problems so ... exclude considering all solutions to those problems except for Fast Hands being baseline" What I think is more likely is that FH nerfed to 7-8 seconds and MAYBE compensate by pumping up Versatile Rage and Versatile Power to juice the class mechanic ... because if Fhands IS as fundamental to warrior as the burst mechanic as you say and it's competing with Burst as the warrior-defining mechanic ... it SHOULDN'T be.

Sure they evolve but that in itself doesn't justify FH (or any other random trait) being baseline. Frankly, there is a more fruitful discussion to be had about adrenaline changes for baseline improvements. At least that's plausible because there is no question there is a benefit for all warriors there. The sad part is that few people think about the consequences of such a thing ... including the 'trade off' warriors are likely to get for access to such a such a benefit. Also, they somehow come to the conclusion that the only solution to strong traits that make lines default choices is to make those traits baseline. I can ASSURE you this is not the singular (or likely) option Anet will consider to solve that problem. For posterity: Make whatever argument for FH baseline you want. Pretty sure it's been covered here by people trying WAY to hard to ignore the fact that strong traits get NERFS, not made baseline.

That doesn't make sense. I didn't say anything about whether it's the 'same Anet' or not ... ... but the arguments for why FH should or shouldn't be baseline aren't any different than they were before. The only fundamental difference now is that specs have associated roles. Does that justify FH being baseline? I don't see it.

Don't worry. The argument was closed years ago ... it still is. The points made back then are still as relevant now, so if people want that rehash, it's a forum search away. If iFH being baseline was compelling, Anet has had ample time to do something about it. Still waiting to be made wrong ... probably until the day the game servers are unplugged. I'm confident that things Anet makes baseline are done because they are related to the fundamental class mechanics, not some random trait people fall in love with. Why I think that? Because that's what we see happen in the game history when other things were made baseline. Ironically, even the person calling me out recognizes the value of adrenaline changes is far greater and more applicable as a baseline change than FH is.

Sure, but there isn't a debate here. If MOST of the spending came from played minutes in WvW/PVP instead of PVE ... THAT'S where Anet would be spending it's resource to develop the game. I wasn't claiming there aren't people spending from all game modes. I'm 100% certain people in PVP/WVW are buying skins in the GS. I'm saying Anet should give them more compelling items in the GS to spend money on.

Sunk costs have NOTHING to do with the fact that GW2 is still a viable business for Anet and a compelling offering to customers willing to patronize Anet by playing it. You don't know what you are talking about, obvious by the fact that you are hiding behind wiki pages unrelated to the discussion instead of talking about the points being made to you. If the game wasn't good, people wouldn't play it. Bad MMO's don't stick around for 11 years and they ESPECIALLY don't get development funding. In otherwords, you might not like GW2 now ... OK ... but that doesn't mean it's really bad. It just means you can't be objective because of how you feel about it, which makes any critique of the game very low-value.

Then I guess people like 'really bad' MMOs then ... because it's still here and people are still putting money into it so Anet can continue to develop it. The fact is that the things you say are nonsense. 100% certain that Anet knows how to make an MMO. I'm 100% certain that the people that continue to play and pay into the game still have goals and new challenges, even since EoD. You're just a bitter individual that craps on everything.

That's absurd for the very reason that we are 11 years later and Anet is STILL making this MMO.

This makes no sense. Never and nowhere have I made this game 'about me', including the content you quoted. If what you say about the whole point of the thread is that there is some historical baseline of difficulty that Anet was maintaining then POOF, power creep ... then that whole point also makes no sense. If there is one thing Anet hasn't done in the history of this game, it's target and maintain some consistent difficulty level with released content. Whatever powercreep the OP thinks is due to SoTo ... it was ALWAYS there. It started almost 10 years ago. They are a little slow on recognizing it.

That's nonsense. Presented facts are based on data/evidence, which I'm sure you have NONE of. What's happening here is that you have a beef with how Anet has evolved the game to it's current state. The best part is when someone like me points out that the game is still successful, regardless of how you view it and it's history or your salty feeling about it. So you are wrong. Anet DOES want people to play the game ... and people DO play the game. The way Anet develops the game is inline with the fact they want people to play it. The fact that there are still enough people to enable the game to still be part of a viable business for them after 11 years is proof that your opinions are just nonsense. So make no mistake, any decision to not play the game or aren't enjoying it because you don't like something about it ... that's NOT because Anet is engineering it to force you or other players out. It's simply you mistaking the reality that the game can't be everything to everyone for some unreasonable expectation you have that you know better and it's about you.