Leo G.4501

True. We entirely agree. Like I said before, people just have different terms for what is effectively the same thing. Certain approaches are tolerated while others are not. Certain pretenses exist that elicit disdain and others that are embraced. And like I mentioned in my initial post, some level of power creep is welcomed but too much will have backlash. If we bought the expansion and all it did was change the color of our skills to another color, we probably wouldn't buy it, or at least not as many would. As far as the OP goes, they boxed a feature in an expansion. If you want it, there's a one-time fee. I personally am not averse to it, however, I myself haven't purchased the last expansion. No reason behind that except I'm content with what I have when I do play.

Like I said, people are going to have different qualifiers for these terms and how they interact with game modes. I'm not rewriting reality, I'm just bridging the gap of different interpretations. You can make up more and new terms, the point is whether it's predatory or not and if it impacts balance or not. Because someone can just concede and say "fine, it's not pay to win, it's buy the expansion to win" and you've not changed the position. It's a semantics argument. Going back on the two points, I don't think anyone would agree that buying expansions is predatory but the argument can be made that they do impact the balance. The point you side stepped (since you did quote my whole post) is how much should it impact the balance. Because too much is obviously not a good thing either, whether is from an expansion or a microtransaction.

Eh, there's a spectrum to it. By definition, it could be considered pay to win but at the same time, the definition is broad and the other terms are rarely ever conjured. Pay to play, buy to play, pay for convenience, pay to progress, etc etc. They often hinge on a specific criteria being met but ultimately miss the point. Is this pay to win? Arguably. In some cases, there are clear advantages and builds opened by purchasing this or that expansion...but in some cases, the options unlocked aren't stronger. Like Oh, I just bought PoF and now I got Spellbreaker, that's just so much better than Berserker, isn't it? The point isn't whether or not it is p2w, it's more important if it's toxic predatory p2w. Because you can still roll out with core in WvW or PvP and rack up some wins. It's not like you're instantly deleted, as much as people like to exaggerate that you are. On the other hand, if you did shell out $40 for an expansion and all it does it change your skill colors/animations instead of add to the gameplay, is it even worth buying?

I think it's a matter of perspective. Sure, starting an espec on a new player and giving them options on top sounds like common sense to us veteran players, but to a noob who doesn't have the understanding of how specs work or even how GW2 functions on a general level because they're still learning stuff like the other weapons of their profession, unlocking the espec IS the kit and unlocking the traits is the customization options on top of that. Having a more intrinsic understanding how the traits affect their gameplay is good on a drip feed and having options to circumvent the drip feed is a player choice. I didn't even roll a Revenant until Vindicator because it appealed to me as an espect...but I still enjoyed learning from scratch with the leveling experience to become accustom to Revenant as a whole...then Vindicator...then Herald. I still haven't played Renegade but that's mostly because I wanted to get back to playing Warrior and Ranger.

Personally, I think more experimentation is necessary. Purpose is good and I feel weapons like Axe have their purpose, even Mace has its purpose (although it could stand to be better at it). The only thing I can see sword doing is the leap and "some" condition damage. Give it a strong purpose and people will build around that purpose.

Watch this post have nothing to do with Lyhrs relic but instead it's about Nourys relic.

I'd actually argue the new rune system is more easy to balance primarily because it's more bland. As for relics, those are also probably easier to balance too because they can just remove problematic ones or replace problematic effects with more bland effects. It sux, honestly.

I still miss Retaliation as a boon lol That said, I really wish there was a version of that for boons. Boon punishment. It doesn't rip or corrupt boons, it just causes an effect for every stack of a boon that gets applied to a target. And if you want to be really fancy, putting different kinds of boon punishment on different professions would make it tougher. I initially had the idea for it as a unique Spellbreaker effect called Fissure where every time you get a boon, it will apply bleed, torment or burning randomly on them. Get 5 stacks of might, you might get 2 stacks of bleed, 1 stack of torment and 2 stacks of burning. Get 3 might, swiftness, fury and vigor all at once? You're getting 6 stacks of these 3 conditions...and it compounds when you start getting boons from allies. You could diversify it too where a Chronomancer specifically punishes Alacrity and Vigor with a daze or an Elementalist punishes Fury and Swiftness with Chill. The counterplay would obviously be that you'd have to actually connect with this effect BEFORE they apply these boons and if you get afflicted, just don't apply boons to yourself. Ultimately, it's not to stop players from using boons or to lessen the boons but rather to make the boons more expensive because now you need more cleanses or more stability, etc to counter this effect. But you also need a decent means of applying this but they'll keep nerfing all the corrupt/rip/punishment options so yeah, this probably won't work...

I could see Gauntlets to be 2-handed rather than be main/off hand instead. Would be awesome to see ele using big sweeping animations to summon meteors and water globes while mesmer just floats the gauntlets so they can punch you with 4 fists instead of just 2.

#1 isn't our problem. If they want money, work is required. #2 you gave a decent solution, just make it so in competitive modes, this is automatically turned on so only your dyed skills are displayed. #3 there should already be a min fx option and that goes doubly so for PvE. And I'm sure there would be other things added to censor players before this idea would get off the table, like an Ele coloring their water/ice skills yellow or something. My only counter to this idea is, they don't even have weapon dye channels so how would this idea ever be on the table?

All this talk about complete overhaul, move in DT, trash it and start over? 👎 If people don't want all the aegis reflects? Change the aegis to regular blocks (no boon duration here) and some to evades or whatever. The freebie alacrity they added just opened up the window for more pocket nerfs to add to the pile. I don't even know what they want to do with it. I just want what we had.

Reread what they said. They said "Comparisons between class toolsets are not a proof of anything". CLASSES. I know things get confused because people keep calling classes classes instead of professions so we have these odd equivalencies, mix of terms, categories, etc. The argument being made is comparing across professions shouldn't be proof of anything then you come in saying you can compare across specs. Let that sink in. Congrats, you admit you're trying to troll people with reactions but also remove others' opinions and end the debate with "truth". I won't even bother responding to you further because there's no point. I will continue to argue my point until they lock the thread however. Ciao~ 👋 Reminder: you brought up attacking while dodging as an example. So the argument being made that Mirage Cloak's ambush is not unique because other professions can attack while dodging too. So you're kind of defeating your own argument (because it would actually support your initial point that other professions too can attack while dodging but you're tossing away more examples) while also misrepresenting ambush attacks as just another attack. But it sounds like you and several others have a problem with them altering the functionality of how Mirage Cloak worked. I'd be right there behind you that removing it's ability to work while immob (it shouldn't work while CC'ed tho, like stun and knockdown) just screwed up a lot of advantages of why you'd look for Mirage Cloak as a replacement for regular dodge. But guess what? You never made that argument before. You've just been going on about how this profession or that profession has unique dodges and how they get this and that trait. None of that matters tho (because keeping it a buck, Vindicator should have been stuck with 1 dodge but that's neither here nor there)...and mind you, this is all a tangent on a trait, not Mirage Cloak itself. I don't think you understand how this works. You're the one behind primarily because you have to convince the majority and the devs to implement your change or some change. You attract more flies with honey and all I have to do is show you're covered in vinegar. Both you and the OP seem very vindictive and angry despite what you're asking for isn't even that big a deal. If they did change the trait to SS, great. If they didn't, Mirage still has a good set of tools and tactics to work with. You paint a target on yourself acting hysterical and emotional when people simply have a different opinion from you. Try to work on that.

I wouldn't be concerned with reacts. That said, there could be potential specs that reused an already used weapon as well. For example, Warrior has a lot of weapons with only things like Trident, scepter, focus and pistol main as options left. With enough effort, one might divert future changes from "checking boxes" to "fulfilling fantasies". Like, rather than trying to shoehorn a scepter on War, just give it a new spec that changes a couple current weapons' skills.

Misrepresentation. I didn't say Mirage cloak is so unique that Speed of Sand is fine as is. In fact, I said a more neutral statement (can't believe I have to reword this AGAIN for you) that Mirage Cloak gives its own distinct advantages over other dodges so labeling the traits as "fixing" what Mirage Cloak took (i.e. compensating it) is a misrepresentation. Furthermore, picking out traits from other professions to compare it with is the strawman. tl;dr: If you want to say Speed of Sand is poopy and you'd like to suggest additions to it, that's fine. Trying to portray Mirage and Mirage Cloak as in a bad position despite us knowing how stacked it is hilarious but you don't seem to be laughing. Also, no, I don't think you understand the purpose of traits and specs. There is no distinction between Daredevil's, Vindicators, Warrior's and Elementalist's traited dodge effects beyond the literal outcomes [EDIT] of being able to attack while dodging[/EDIT]. Trying to infer some intellectual high ground in cherry picking examples won't work on me. And sure, I'll ignore the whole accusations of not being a Mirage player. Still, I implore you to show some tact rather than stooping to indirectly insulting people by inferring what they do and don't know. At the very least, hold your assumptions for someone who *actually* doesn't know some of how the game works. Going on a basic intuitive hunch, I believe the person you're quoting is making the argument that "you can't avoid it" or "you're locked into the trait" itself is not a foundation for an argument. All that is saying is Speed of Sand is free. That's it. You're not altering the spec because you're locked into it. Therefore, Speed of Sand should probably be treated as such: a free trait. What goes in these free traits is going to depend on how stacked the spec is, even moreso for especs.

See? This is some gaslighting kitten right here. I know what Mirage cloak does. I know what normal dodges do and I know what Vindi and Daredevils do. You try to play this gatekeep argument and label someone as "not a Mirage player" while obfuscating stuff that Mirage cloak CAN do like dodge while channeling (so while attacking and rezzing and interacting with mechanics)...but I'M the "not a Mirage player"? Go sit down. While DD and Vindi (and Warrior and Elementalist...you forgot those...if you're going to own ppl, why not be thorough?) can deal damage at the end of a dodge roll, they don't get to pick the attack or complete the attack, they have to interrupt themselves and use the "dodge attack" so it's not the same thing and it's disingenuous to try and label them as the same. So next time, before you try to school someone on who plays what, stop lying to the audience reading the thread. That's all I asked past my first post. I don't think I'm being unclear or misrepresenting anything here.

Perhaps think more intuitively then? If you're saying that Speed of Sand "compensates", that typically means give back in recognition for a loss. The exaggeration is to highlight that no, Mirage Cloak isn't useless but rather has it's own niche of advantages. You are exchanged the advantages of normal dodge for Mirage Cloak and you're "rebated" the exchange by letting you keep the advantages of Mirage Cloak while providing you speed during Mirage Cloak. Arguing that it's a kitten GM minor? Sure. Arguing that it's just giving you back regular dodge? That's just not how that equation works. Comparing to other GM minors? That's just petty and a waste of breath.

Sounds like a conflict of interest. No one is saying the trait isn't bad. Lot's of professions have bad traits but don't pikachu-face when someone tells you you might not need something you ask for.

Telling someone that they might be complaining about a non-issue is better faith than this politician cap gaslighting you're trying to do.

Don't care. Try arguing in good faith instead.

So you're saying Mirage cloak is useless and has no unique advantages? Yeah, I read the patch notes. There were quite a few changes that affected mirage negatively. I'm not against giving the trait something but you basically outline what I'm talking about: yeah, power mirage will get more out of the trait because of the negatives you point out. It's like they give up something for it... Use Action cam? Turn your camera? Or did they ever fix that thing were Action Cam strafing is faster than free cam? Also, I think you guys are gaslighting. Apparently Mirage Cloak has NO luxuries? It's just a random nerf so you can use ambush skills? It's like downplaying Mirage Cloak as bad and Speed of Sand just makes Mirage Cloak not a nerf.

Once you put your envy aside and start looking at your own professions traits again, I guess we're back to square one. I don't think the Dune Cloak trait change is strong BUT just how much speed do you think it would add once you start taking that into account with your proposal? Having traits that mostly modify a particular skill would seem rather elegant in the past...now they have to tack on a bunch of team boons too?

What did they say they were looking to focus on? I figure any changes would be to newer additions that need to be addressed, like new systems or relics.

Actually, we don't have classes, we have professions 🤓🤓🤓 As for the idea suggested, I don't like the implementation. It's not the traits that makes the weapon so tying it to the traits would need a specific implementation to do what you're saying and it would have to be for every weapon that profession has access to (i.e. unlocking necro staff on ele would also unlock every other weapon they can equip). On top of that, it really wouldn't work. Again, ele using necro staff? They'd either be nerfing themselves because they can't attunement swap or they effectively have a 5th attunement that is the necro staff skills. And if War uses Thief to get mainhand pistol, what will the burst be? The skills for weapons are curated for the profession to take advantage of a limited profession mechanic feature such as shatters, attunements, initiative, etc. Could they do it? Of course, but it would practically have nothing to do with a trait line. Adding a trait line from Thief to War wouldn't do much since a lot of their traits incorporate stealth, dual attacks, stealing, stolen skills, initiative, etc. which is a bunch of stuff War has no or limited access to. If they created a curated "Thief warrior" traitline for War that granted them thief skills and traits to improve those skills, then they just have to do the same for all the other 8 profession traitlines so War can get a necro line, an ele line, etc....then repeat for the other professions...basically 8 new trait lines for all 9 professions....that's probably more work than just giving each profession a new elite spec. Also, giving every profession access to every other profession's weapon skills, even if limited to 1 alternate profession at a time, is still an ocean of stuff to balance and counterbalance. Could they somehow work a limited function temp-profession weapon skill or swap or something if you want a more custom style to toy with? I dunno...sounds dangerous. If so, perhaps limit it to open world PvE only? It just sounds like it'd be a disaster in any instanced PvE/PvP.

Even if it was just a typo, kinda vibing with War getting some ape-theming to go with it's style of combat. Rangers don't have anything related to apes or primate-adjacent in their kit.

Having been kicked off a point more than once or had my stab ate up with a quick kick followed by another CC, I think Kick has its niche uses.