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No "kp" for CM fractals. Is that gonna increase toxicity?
Fir.7932 replied to Fir.7932's topic in Instanced Group Content
There are low, medium and high kp groups depending on the goal for the party. Lower kp requirement groups usually fill quicker, high kp requirement groups fill slow but the run is smoother.. Most of us started by puging from 0 kp me including.. Runs are hard, because people are bad, but finding a group is easy, also when you get like 20kp which is easy you can ask nicely any 50-150kp group and they will let you stay most of the time. Without kp, people would just decide you are bad after first run (that you maybe just messed up) and kick you. Imho it's better to make your experience level clear right in lfg and join the kind of group yiu sre looking for instead of getting kicked after first boss. -
No "kp" for CM fractals. Is that gonna increase toxicity?
Fir.7932 replied to Fir.7932's topic in Instanced Group Content
I will just steal a comment from @"Cyninja.2954" that he posted under a voting pool of the same topic, because I feel like it describes the issue better than i could: With the old KP ping for fractals, there was a certain expectation to go along: 1-50 KP was in general new players, hfb which might not do all the mechanics for one, likely no consumables, maybe not even a fractal title on players50-100 KP were more relaxed groups, still a hfb for carry but one who might actually know how to press buttons, consumables were given, etc.200 KP was right below "I have to focus up now" with maybe a hfb, but very likely a few fractal title players, everyone on full consumables and fractal potions300+ KP was in general: focus up, no hfb for carry so know how to dodge, cc and burst, probably portals on multiple people, etc. Get through both CMs in around 20 MinutesAs someone with a good bit above 300 KP myself, I was free to chose which type of group I wanted to join depending on how I felt. If I wanted to semi afk 99+100CM, I'd sign up as DH or BS in a 100 KP group, or run HFB and carry all mechanics assuring a safe run. While KP were easily fake able, the person faking would often get the boot and seldom complain, unless the group was merciful and the player was okayish, I've seen a fair share of definitive KP fake players who were barely acceptable but not kicked since they at least did not fail sever mechanics. Now you most definitely will get faking players complain when kicked, and kicks will become far more frequent. Neither of which will benefit the atmosphere. The 2 main flaws of reasoning here: the KP ping addressed the issue of players wanting to play with similar skilled players, and while it had flaws, it managed to do so in a majority of cases. This was superior to asking for "exp", because experience and skill in this game are not binarysome players on these boards always assume that gating happens immediately. That is not the case, gating happens to a majority of time due to necessity, especially when it is this wide spread. You never see gating for open world bosses because there is no need for it. Most players don't voluntary gate for kitten and giggles, because reducing the viable amount of players which can join means longer group finding, they do so because the gating actually REDUCES time to complete content and/or increases the chance of success DESPITE longer grouping times. -
While I agree that the wording is way over the top, I also agree that players voice their concerns when changes are implemented which will lead to issues down the road. If this were true, no harsher gating would have been in place this wide spread. Fact of the matter is, putting "exp" in your LFG helps to about the midway point of challenging content, if one considers normal T4 fractals remotely challenging, after that you are relying on good luck of the draw on who joins. Even then, "exp" is a lot more vague than a numeric value. With the old KP ping for fractals, there was a certain expectation to go along:1-50 KP was in general new players, hfb which might not do all the mechanics for one, likely no consumables, maybe not even a fractal title on players50-100 KP were more relaxed groups, still a hfb for carry but one who might actually know how to press buttons, consumables were given, etc.200 KP was right below "I have to focus up now" with maybe a hfb, but very likely a few fractal title players, everyone on full consumables and fractal potions300+ KP was in general: focus up, no hfb for carry so know how to dodge, cc and burst, probably portals on multiple people, etc. Get through both CMs in around 20 Minutes As someone with a good bit above 300 KP myself, I was free to chose which type of group I wanted to join depending on how I felt. If I wanted to semi afk 99+100CM, I'd sign up as DH or BS in a 100 KP group, or run HFB and carry all mechanics assuring a safe run. While KP were easily fake able, the person faking would often get the boot and seldom complain, unless the group was merciful and the player was okayish, I've seen a fair share of definitive KP fake players who were barely acceptable but not kicked since they at least did not fail sever mechanics. Now you most definitely will get faking players complain when kicked, and kicks will become far more frequent. Neither of which will benefit the atmosphere. The 2 main flaws of reasoning here:the KP ping addressed the issue of players wanting to play with similar skilled players, and while it had flaws, it managed to do so in a majority of cases. This was superior to asking for "exp", because experience and skill in this game are not binarysome players on these boards always assume that gating happens immediately. That is not the case, gating happens to a majority of time due to necessity, especially when it is this wide spread. You never see gating for open world bosses because there is no need for it. Most players don't voluntary gate for kitten and giggles, because reducing the viable amount of players which can join means longer group finding, they do so because the gating actually REDUCES time to complete content and/or increases the chance of success DESPITE longer grouping times. This guy said it all (y)
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No "kp" for CM fractals. Is that gonna increase toxicity?
Fir.7932 replied to Fir.7932's topic in Instanced Group Content
I understand that you don't wanna play withpeople you call "elitists" and "elitists" don't wanna do clears with people they call "casuals" that's why we use things like "kp". I mean, casuals are just people who want things done and elitists are also just people who dont mind if things take longer as long as they improve their performance and their class mastery.. Forcing these 2 groups together could end up in toxicity and frustration because none of these groups will be capable of doing what they enjoy doing. -
I agree with you, a bit. Not sure if there's really a difference between this and nothing tbh. And there were talks about it for years and it all ended up in 10 gold per week.. RNG mount skin drop or something would be as lazy as this but at least something worth going for.. Idk man, I am just really disappointed I guess, I hope that devs are still planning on doing something, but since templates fiesta there's a little hope in some kind of content for high end veteran players.
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No "kp" for CM fractals. Is that gonna increase toxicity?
Fir.7932 replied to Fir.7932's topic in Instanced Group Content
This would work in a situation where every player, no matter the experience, has the same amount of value, but that is not the case and usually you can clearly see a difference between like 500kp guy and 100kp guy which will lead to just kicking people after first boss (no matter the reason, they can have the kp, just messed up their opening rotation) because they cannot compete with more experienced players, meaning they are not suites for no healer compositions etc. There is not really any difference between 50kp or infinite kp players.There are however difference between static player and pug player. They approach encounter with different strategy.People like you just pushes others with your high demand and elite mentality on pug.You want perfect run, stay in your static, otherwise be ready for spicy run which is fun for alot of us.Idk how much experience do you have, my friend, but I clear fractal CMs about 10+ times per week. I do my dailies with static (obviously sometimes we have to pug one person) and I join high kp groups for fun or help guildies with low kp.. If you're saying there's no difference between 50kp guy and infinite kp guy, I have to say you are horribly wrong. Most of the time the difference is as clear as day. If you are puging high kp groups there are some really good people in there and it's pretty rare to find someone who will have low DPS. If I join low kp group or help guild static with low kp as DPS, there's pretty much never a competition for me and I am one of the worst dmgers in my group, I mostly play supports. -
What do the na people say about kill proof=Kp that you get from raid bosses.Bdeco? Low kp groups should be fine with that but all depends on the group. If I was making group 500kp and you joined with like 100 dhuum kp and none or <100kp I would ask you to leave. If you joined like 150ko group with some LI/LD W5-6 kp I would say it's fine
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After years of asking for some way to make CMs raids repeatable (other than selling it to plebs who cannot kill it themselves) it's finally here and my question for this discussion is, how do you guys feel about it? I am not sure, if I actually understand the Top-tiered achievement for weekly raids, but it seems like the rewards are as following:For killing 5 CM bosses you get 10 gold, 50 Raid currency and 10 provisioner tokens per week. So the second question is: Is there something I have missed or is this really it? I refuse to believe that after years of waiting all we've got for clearing arguably the hardest pve content in the game is 10 gold weekly. This is not even worth the trouble.
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No "kp" for CM fractals. Is that gonna increase toxicity?
Fir.7932 replied to Fir.7932's topic in Instanced Group Content
I do have a static, but I enjoy fractals with high ko groups, so I like to join them in lfg even with dailies done. Would not be the case if I didn't know the amount of ko the group has. -
No "kp" for CM fractals. Is that gonna increase toxicity?
Fir.7932 replied to Fir.7932's topic in Instanced Group Content
This would work in a situation where every player, no matter the experience, has the same amount of value, but that is not the case and usually you can clearly see a difference between like 500kp guy and 100kp guy which will lead to just kicking people after first boss (no matter the reason, they can have the kp, just messed up their opening rotation) because they cannot compete with more experienced players, meaning they are not suites for no healer compositions etc. -
I believe at least half of us who voted "no" don't want item but some other way of proving experience, but still agree with the need of some kind of kp
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Make A Raid Matchmaking System For Solo Players
Fir.7932 replied to SeikeNz.3526's topic in Instanced Group Content
sure you can make your own group if you want something more coordinate, but it's better with random players trying than never do it because you don't have a group, this is for solo players No man, he is right.. Strikes are far easier than raids and there's a matchmaking system for you to experience. Try some harder strike bosses with that.. I did that, just out of curiosity, and even as a multiclass who can fill any needed role I am confident saying that this would never work in raids unless all ppl are multiclass. It's kinda like communism. It just simply cannot work, since it doesn't even work in Strikes. -
No "kp" for CM fractals. Is that gonna increase toxicity?
Fir.7932 replied to Fir.7932's topic in Instanced Group Content
It gives an estimate on someone’s potential skill with whatever awarded that particular KP. and it could always be bought spoofed or carried for. True but the likelihood of running into someone that does that is low. i suppose my real question is; why are people acting like fractals have been deleted because a system of discriminating based skill was removed even though it was totally inaccurate? I mean. Judging by this post no1 is saying that fractals are being deleted. People are just mad/confused about this pointless complication to the lfg system, that most of the people, me including, just don't understand. For me personally I will still use old kp in lfg just asi everyone else, or I'll just use discord, but I hope new players will have some option to prove their experience right in lfg. -
No "kp" for CM fractals. Is that gonna increase toxicity?
Fir.7932 replied to Fir.7932's topic in Instanced Group Content
You're right, it's just not as comfortable to use second up to find a group for your game. Also I would find it kinda sad, if in game lfg feature would just not be reliable anymore. But time will tell I guess. It's just a pointless complication imho. -
No "kp" for CM fractals. Is that gonna increase toxicity?
Fir.7932 replied to Fir.7932's topic in Instanced Group Content
It gives an estimate on someone’s potential skill with whatever awarded that particular KP. and it could always be bought spoofed or carried for.You could fake it, yes, even tho most people didn't and even if you got carried for like 500kp, you still had to learn something. It's impossible to kill it this many times and be like 50kp level player. Yes, kp is not accurate, and idk what your experience with puging is, but I have over 1.5k kp (keeping 1k selling the rest), multiclass, Fractal God, have been playing since chaos chrono meta and even tho I was memeber of 2 static groups and I was leading training runs and teaching new people I started from 0 with pugs and got my first stack of 250kp all by solo puging and even when in static I like to join high kp groups just for fun even with dailies done. I am more than confident saying that in majority of times there's a huge difference between low kp and high kp player and the same goes for parties. I am not having fun clearing it with 150kp groups but going with 400-500 kp groups is fun for me, even when I have no rewards from it. So yes, it is not 100% accurate, but it was the best tool we had and devs should not be forcing experienced players to carry noobs if they don't want to, because that is not fun for anyone and will end up in getting kicked from groups or ppl still using old kp, preventing new players to reach our level.