Xstein.2187

That is likely referring to the cycle of the elder dragons and how they awaken every so often. Now the elder dragon cycles will come to an end and a new series of cycles will take their place.

Unfortunately, right now I don't know whether to feel sorry for or laugh at the people who decided to waste their time on this class or game for the last year or two. I'm just glad I didn't. The only sad part about that for me isn't the game anymore as much as the fact that Pre-PoF I obviously never thought or wanted to feel that way to begin with.

"Ideas for next balance patch for mesmer" An apology to the Mesmer player base, or those that once were, for detrimental changes to a product we already payed money for.

Can you elaborate a bit more? In which format do you enjoy your mesmer, PvE, PvP, WvW? I ask because I still use my mesmer, he runs through events, the story, and crafting (PvE). But outside of that I do not play him much in other formats. And again in PvE, I feel (other people have crunched the numbers on this) that I must work SOOOO much harder to achieve a good burst of damage (condi or just damage in general) in PvE content compared to other classes I play. Should also note, I am not a min/max player. I play with what I have and what I like. Even with that, mesmer lacks so much compared to the other classes I play. It's a joke, he's just admitting he's a masochist.

Are you gearing for fractals or for raids?

Countless, I love some of your shatter change ideas and your composure during the video, but what are your plans if nothing changes?I only ask because I believe many here consider such by far the most likely outcome. Thanks,

In this balance patch we feel that clone generation has gotten a little out of hand.To balance this issue, summoning a clone will now cost an additional 25 endurance.Not only will this change create a sense of tradeoffs that weren't there before, but this will now limit clone production while still maintaining mirage's elusive role and nature.However, we will be continuing to monitor the situation.

Most of my opinions have already been confirmed by what many have already said here, particularly Me Games Ma and Dragoth.Bards are overdone stereotypes and I really want mesmer to be a class that walks its own path and is unique from other games.Something like a Siren with attacks more akin to shouts rather than 'singing' would be ok-something more like a Oprah singer breaking a glass with her vocals. However, anything that is focused and even semi focused on support is a big no no for me (even if it is a support type different from quickness and alacrity). I would much, much, much rather have the idea of a debuff dps spec, particularly if it is pulled off in a unique, original manor. What matters more for me is fixing mesmer's problems, holes, and potential roles.Aesthetics, lore, and role playing is secondary - not that I don't enjoy it though as well :)

Imagine the irony of a mesmer elite spec with a hammer like a juggernaut that is more evasive than a mirage.

Q1: why our e-specs are the only ones that feel like downgrades?A: Because they are downgrades. Q2: why instead of tradeoffs you just rip the class apart over and over again?A: Instead of giving tradeoffs and then balancing like on the other classes, for mesmer Anet considered it better to nerf and balance to the tradeoffs of other classes and then install tradeoffs afterwards because . . . . reasons. Q3: who is in charge of this class design over the balance team?A: Unfortunately, we must assume Robert Gee is still in charge of mesmer.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Robert_GeeAs even though there were layoffs, those who no longer work for Anet are still listed as former staff and Robert Gee is not one of them.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet Q4: are you gonna ever considerate addressing this changes?A: . . . . . . . . No, Q5: why we got no reply from you after several posts here and in reddit?A: There is no point to replying if you think such a reply will hurt/decrease the player base or lead to a decrease in profits. Q6: Do you plan on removing the class from pvp/wvw after every mesmer who plays those modes leaves the game?A: No, you do not need to fully remove content to find a solution. Look at dungeons, just do a little snip snip here and a snip snip there and Boom, no one seriously or competitively plays dungeons anymore even though they are still in the game. Yet, people still can't complain about dungeons being removed. Problem solved! EZPZ

Nope, looked over everything and nothing appears to be missing or bugged.Seems to be going good,Anet is just in the early stages of confirming that the patch it is working as intended. Therefore, your feedback is appreciated. However, if you ever do feel like you have enough offensive pressure or utility to survive, just be sure to send in a notification right away so that a hot fix may be implemented for the next patch. Thank you,

extra evade CDs -> Illusionary Ambush, Sand Through Glass, Mirage Mirrors created by False Oasis, Sand Through Glass (this is 2 evades in one utility and a stun break), Crystal Sands and Distortion with Desert DistortionDodge while stompingDodge while reviving Though again, the benefits of other elites do not change how overtuned Mirage Cloak is. The other option was to basically get rid of IH because it was giving a massive advantage and everyone knows it. Then all the mesmer mains would be crying about loss of that. Before that is was how overtuned Elusive Mind was and when that got nerfed everyone went for Infinite Horizon when the problem all along has been Mirage Cloak.Thank you so much. Before I read your post, based on the whine of the others I thought anet removed distorsion, mirrors, stealth, leaps and teleports from mirage too and that poor mirages are left with one way to avoid damage. Srsly... it's ridiculous. All these whine posts should be saved for the next time a competent mirage player shows up and wins games as an example of: you suck a the game, you don't know your class mechanics, you don't know your options. lol, 1v1 me, you mirage me necro. ( mesmer counters necro btw )if you manage to win once out of 10 fights ill give you 200g, how does that sounds? I don't play anymore, so I'll chip in 1,000g as long as it is recorded.I can be that mirage for memes and free gold? Also what build? (XTEIN GIB ME UR GOLD!111)@bravan.3876 you said you are done but still posting 9999999999999999999 words walls even worse than Trevor, staphUp to @Leonidrex.5649 I'm just a financial investor, not the playerBest to let @KrHome.1920 reply first though, as he was the first asked.But if he doesn't respond, it is all up in the air. Wait . . . . . . you do realize you need to beat Leonidrex's necro in order to get paid, not just attempt to duel him, right? :grey_question: ? :grey_question: ? <3 :p :p <3

extra evade CDs -> Illusionary Ambush, Sand Through Glass, Mirage Mirrors created by False Oasis, Sand Through Glass (this is 2 evades in one utility and a stun break), Crystal Sands and Distortion with Desert DistortionDodge while stompingDodge while reviving Though again, the benefits of other elites do not change how overtuned Mirage Cloak is. The other option was to basically get rid of IH because it was giving a massive advantage and everyone knows it. Then all the mesmer mains would be crying about loss of that. Before that is was how overtuned Elusive Mind was and when that got nerfed everyone went for Infinite Horizon when the problem all along has been Mirage Cloak.Thank you so much. Before I read your post, based on the whine of the others I thought anet removed distorsion, mirrors, stealth, leaps and teleports from mirage too and that poor mirages are left with one way to avoid damage. Srsly... it's ridiculous. All these whine posts should be saved for the next time a competent mirage player shows up and wins games as an example of: you suck a the game, you don't know your class mechanics, you don't know your options. lol, 1v1 me, you mirage me necro. ( mesmer counters necro btw )if you manage to win once out of 10 fights ill give you 200g, how does that sounds? I don't play anymore, so I'll chip in 1,000g as long as it is recorded.

I voted for mirage because, because that one time . . . . . one of them looked at me. . . . . . . . . . . Wellll, I'm actually blind. . . . . . but, but that one time, someone told me that one of them looked at me.

I never said to do nothing. I just said complaining on the forums hasn't been helping.Besides, sometimes not doing something can be just as effective, if not more.

If mesmer is the reason you want to start playing again then I would recommend running for the hills and finding a different game.I used to play a lot and had legendary armor and weapons, but I deleted the game a long time ago because of what they did to mesmer.To add onto that, now it appears to be getting worse.Don't even dare buy the dlc's - or future ones at that.Right now in PvP every mesmer elite spec is worse than base, and apparently that is the way Anet wants it. $Cash$ in by making the elites useful so people buy the dlc's and then crash mesmer elites because many people don't like fighting against that play style.You can do whatever you want, but I have been waiting a good year+ now for things to get better and that still doesn't seem to be the case. Instead, it appears to progressively be getting worse.Feels like buying a new car several years ago, just to have the manufacturer come over later to bash it in just because other people don't like that particular car color or model.Just my two cents.Best to just save yourself some heartache.Good luck with whatever path you pursue though!

Fixed the question for ya a bit.Mirage will loose one dodge next balance patch, likely on Tuesday. Therefore, it will not be viable.

Im pretty sure the other guy agrees with you atleast i do. I was here defending Elusive mind 2 years ago against the irrational mesmer hate but it seems to me in my premature exit many of the mesmers on the forums either quit or gave up, Do not worry fellow mesmer i am back and with your help and the help of other mesmers if they should choose to enter the fold we will undo the unbelievably bias changes Anet has made to the class. But we have to cry and fight as much or maybe even harder then the other classes on the forums it will not be easy but we can fix this. Ummm, but we have cried and fought in the past over these stupid decision over and over and over again. That doesn't help; history shows us this (unless you count complaining about EM being worthless for 2 years a success :/ ) . How long it took for that trait to change just shows us how bad things really are. The devs likely don't even read this section of the forums and even if they did, their actions have repeatedly demonstrated that they either don't care or are incapable. The past shows that the only way to solve this is to shift your focus. If you don't agree with an approach, then for god's sake quite spending money on the product or declare that you won't in the future. If nothing changes then just let good old Darwin's theory do what it does best. I have already deleted gw2 off my computer quite a long time ago and that is all I can do. It doesn't take anyone special to tell that PvP in Gw2 and Gw2 in general isn't doing very good right now and hasn't for some time now. Of course, they would never in a million years admit that balancing decisions had anything to do with it (◔_◔). Even wooden potatoes admitted he had to change things up by now. If the opportunity to talk to Anet has already long come to pass, then the best you can do is talk to and support each other instead.Buuuuut, for god sakes, quite talking like you think things will change by now just because you only typed some keys on a computer and clicked enter.They won't!

Ok, so lets look at numbers so far. It took them approximately 2 months to release new map after Prologue. Before that every LWS map had around 4-5 months break, so it is an improvement overall, even if the new map is 15% smaller than what we were used to. Now that they have prepared most of the assets, we can expect new episode early next year. This means that in around 8 months in total (starting from September) we’re going to have expansion-level content added to the game, minus new specialization, but we’re also going to get WvW changes, PvP tournaments and we already had builds added. I’m very optimistic about this Saga if they keep the pace. Anyway, people complaining about lack of content are not understanding that they’re actually getting more than they would if ANet was making expansion. It takes at least two years for them to release one and now you can possibly get more in just one year. Also I prefer changes to the existing game modes over new specs that will break balance even more so and since we already have gliders and mounts - what else do you want? These complaints remind me of taxes and how they’re perceived by the society. Most people that pay them are not realizing that on average they’re spending over 50% of their income on taxes in most developed countries. Had they actually got a bill at the end of year without having before to pay taxes in small bits, then they would surely revolt seeing how goverement steals from them and gives in return laughable services. The same goes to GW2, but the other way around... You’re thinking it’s not enough, because you’re getting content in small pieces, but you don’t realize that in a year time you’re going to recive expansion-level content in total that normally would take them two years to release. It’s also free. This depends on what is really happening and happened though. Path of Fire was released over two years ago and since that time, half the gw2 devs were obviously working on something and during that time that 'something' (besides the other supposedly canceled project) was expected by the player base to be an expansion that would have not only been announced, but indeed already released by now. Then we got news that there is no new expansion currently planned. Based on what they tell us, that only leads to the conclusion that during that 2+ years, they were working on this living story. Sure, it is possible that they are planning on releasing more of that 2+ year 'expansion' level content in the future, but people are starting to become skeptical, and rightfully so based on how opaque Anet has been. Right now instead of getting 1 expansion and living story every 4-5 months, it appears to many that we are only getting living story every 2 months and 0 expansions. Despite what you say, this is not a faster rate when looking at the big picture. If some people are fine with this model, good for them. However, I don't think you can blame or criticize others so harshly who enjoyed gw2 over the years due to other factors besides the living story: raids, fractals, new specializations, novel changes like guild halls, new pvp game modes, WvW maps, etc. p.s. My belief: 1. Anet were working on an expansion during PoF living story. 2. NCsoft canceled the expansion and forced staff cuts while not being completely transparent about what project was actually cut due to the importance of maintaining the gw2 player base as much as possible. 3. Anet started working on rehashing what they had done already for the next expansion into another living story instead. 4. Now the expansion team is merged with the living story team working on living story episodes down the road for when their 'expansion' rehashed episodes dry up. You guys believe what you want though. After all, it's always a much nicer feeling to believe in rainbow bridges and unicorns.

The only issue i see with this is that some smaller attacks end up doing alot of damage over time even more so for classes that dont have rapid condi cleanse. Lets say you only dodge the bigger attacks Magic bullet, duelest, staff ambush attacks etc. Its not exactly uncommon for mirage to not get the kill by just simply going into passive staff kite mode either where only the little attacks are dependent on doing all the damage. Particularly on staff especially those smaller wind of chaos attacks start to add up fairly quickly even just have 2-3 conditions stacking on you really starts to eat your health away pretty quickly meanwhile the mirage has the chaos of its natural evasive and distracting play style to do as it pleases. Should the mirage find itself in danger it may proceed to block, blink, distort, or stealth which gives it plenty of enough time to reset essentially. IH really does not help in this case either where attacks (lets say an ambush attack) may come from different angles and distances (clone/player positions) making a single doge ineffective against them. A single player may dodge correctly for the main casters projectiles but not others which come form the clones which leads to him still taking damage in the end event though he technically correctly reacted. Sorry, I agree that smaller attacks can kill you, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point was that sometimes it is NOT a good thing to dodge every single attack. I can think of many instances on the top of my head where it would be a good thing to dodge a auto attack (you are almost dead and one attack will kill you, the player you are fighting against is mostly using auto attacks only, etc.) However, this doesn't negate the fact that sometimes it is not a good idea to dodge an auto attack or another low impact attack since dodges are a limited recourses. I didn't and would never argue or say that auto attacks can't kill you. That would be crazy. Auto attacks being able to kill you on ANY class does not in any way negate my point. Aoe damage is most professions weakness how ever i get what you are going for. Aoe damage can destroy the clones etc. As far as mirage's dodging during cc it might not be the problem if they couldnt do damage while doing it. Or possibly if some investment in the traits was required for them to take that action. So long as the current IH exists people will not accept dodging while cc'ed as an ok thing as it allows clones (should they be alive) to deal massive damage as they may not be stunned at the time. When the mirage dodges IH triggers which results in the person who just performed the stun and trying to follow up the stun taking tons of condi retaliation as a reward for attempting to follow up their stun = not very fun and very frustrating. Either Fix IH or force mirages to take a trait apart from HI to evade while under cc. You really should be forced to choose between both options. All grandmaster traits should have extreme choices like this. Yes, I said at the end that damage from mirage cloak attacks should be shifted from the mirage cloak attack to the mirage. Regardless of of the choices in the trait line and even if Elusive Mind was beneficial and not a hinderance, IH would still be too powerful of a trait for condi builds that also causes problems with damage avoidance. I believe this is true regardless of the ability to dodge while cced as well. Damage needs to be shifted back to the player and away from ambush attacks (or at least when used with IH). This will help make balancing easier for other builds that don't use mirage and future builds down the road as well. The last bit of this i dont agree with being out of endurance is simply being out of endurance regardless of which class you are you are all in the same boat at that point i wouldnt say any class is particularly weaker than another once its out of endurance. I would say classes that dont have access to skill or trait tool to replenish endurance be it vigor or something of that nature are the ones are the weakest state when they run out of endurance. Now i dont want to be confused here when you say arguably much weaker do you mean in terms of offensive pressure or defensive sustain.As mesmers still have other defensive tools they can depend on i dont think them being out of endurance makes them overly weaker than the other classes in the game. It can be a bit silly to say im weaker than you when i run out of dodges even if you are out of dodges along with me. Realistically no they both players would be in the same exposed position neither is weaker than the other at least I wouldnt judge it that way. Generally the class thats the disadvantage when it has no dodges is the one who has the least endurance restoration tools. I think we can all agree on which class that is and its certainly not mirage. I should have or could have went into more detail. However, what I meant was that mirage has many (both offensive and defensive) traits that are based on dodge. Therefore, when they are out of dodge, these traits become useless. Additionally, some of their damage may come from mirage cloak which you can't use without dodges either. Other classes, besides daredevil-another dodge based class, don't have traits tied to dodge like this. Take Renewing Oasis for example. If you are a mirage and can't dodge, you get no use out of renewing oasis. However, if you are a chrono, you can use and get healing use out of 'All's well that end Well'. Traits that become useless or you you no longer gain use out of with mirage without dodge include Renewing Oasis, Riddle of Sand, Mirage Mantle, Speed of Sand, Infinite Horizon, Elusive Mind, and Dune Cloak. This is simply because mirage was designed as a dodge based class, like daredevil. This is true but once again this applies to quite a few different classes and mirage is not the only one. Getting stunned in a group fight is generally bad for most professions in the game and a number of them its worse than it is for mirage. Even if you did not move for for thee quarters of a second you still avoided damage which could have been potentially focus fire damage. In this game alot of damage can hit you in three quarters of a second. This also allows a player with quick reaction to activate another defensive tool, a blink, a distortion, a jaunt, etc without taking any damage where as almost any other class would have continued to take that damage for that and what ever other aoe damage is around at the time. If some how for some reason clones magically through the chaos are still up and alive they now also fire off condi dps because you dodged while stunned. I just think its common for people to say "dodging during cc" for such a short time frame is not that big of a deal and that its perfectly ok. When in truth it really can be a big deal even more so when it comes with potential passive retaliation attacks from other sources sometimes. Sorry, I think you are missing my point again. I did not say that getting stunned wasn't a big deal for other classes or that dodging while cc'ed wasn't very useful. I simply wrote this last part to demonstrate that the ability to dodge while cc'ed isn't as good as being able to completely break the stun. This is half and half.You cant always fix everything by looking at numbers from the profession alone further more who would even gather this data. Its not just about the data the profession puts out its also about the feedback data collected from the people who play as it and play against it. This part is important because without feedback data you can make a problem worse than what it already is which leads to greater retaliation. IF you think its not impossible for a class to get unfun to play against to the point people put strikes against it then you are wrong. Should that happen anet has to forgo data and do something to stop it. CI being disabled was a good example of this. Chances are if people are saying something is wrong then something is wrong even if they cant point 100% in the right direction of where the problem might be or where you think it might be they know that something is wrong. I wont pretend like mirage is the "only one" because frankly its not but its certainly up there in maybe the top 3. I know where you are coming from, but it is not that simple. Over the past year it seemed like no one could agree on what was 'not fun' about mirage. You said that being able to use IH while cc'ed was what was bothering you, but not everyone agrees on that. I have seen people say it is just being able to dodge while cc'ed, I have seen people say it is just IH, I have seen people say it is clones, I have seen people say in is to much evade, and before EM got kicked out it seemed like everyone was so sure that EM was what made the spec unfun to fight against. How are you supposed to fix a problem if 1. Not everyone agrees there is a problem, and 2. Not everyone who agrees there is a problem agrees on what the problem is? "This part is important because without feedback data you can make a problem worse than what it already is which leads to greater retaliation."The problem is taking feedback without any data to back it up is even worse!!!!! You don't believe me? Look how many types of builds that were once deemed 'not fun' are now nerfed out of existence to the point where they were no longer viable.Look what happened to EM.They perhaps could have taken the route to make the builds viable, yet fun, but they didn't.Instead, they were thrown out and this has happened to almost every single build like that that I can think of.Anet has NEVER had a reputation of fixing 'fun' while maintaining 'balance'. Balance? That is all numbers. Fun? Yes, that is where the forums come in.Balance and fun are not the same thing. However, it is also not that simple.A long ass time ago I used to play Yugioh with some friends every once in a while.Probably of no surprise, I liked to come up with decks that would turn the opponents strengths into weaknesses and it pissed the hell out of them.It likely used many cards that many deemed unfun.However, you know what? I had fun playing it and there was some people who had fun playing against it.There have been many cards banned for many reasons: too powerful, not enough counterplay, too many option, etc.However, I have never, ever seen a card banned or limited because it was too 'unfun' to play against. Yes, fun is in many ways a compromise because not everyone does agree with what is fun and what is unfun.However, there is a quote I like that I have mentioned in these forums multiple times before by Ben Franklin: "Democracry is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch" This is the problem with the forum if you push everything to as simple terms as just 'voting' or stating subjective opinions on what is fun and the devs simply responding to that is simply wolves pushing out the lambs who have different ideas of what is fun.And to do that while being blind to what the problem even is or when the players can't agree on what is making something 'unfun'? sorry, I have to go pretty soon and get ready, but I'll talk to you latter.

@mortrialus.3062, @viquing.8254 Guys, I see it both ways.I actually think Mortrialus's thought experiment of two mirages fighting is of some pretty good use.My only argumentation against it is when you are fighting a mirage, you can't have the same expectations you would have when fighting other classes, and this is likely where a lot of the frustration other people have when fighting mirages come from. NormalExample: lets say that you are a new player that just switched over to gw2 from a simpler game. You may have god like reflexes and are able to dodge every single attack. However, the reality is that you DON'T want to dodge every single attack. If you even dodge the smaller attacks, you will loose all your dodges/cooldowns and not have them for the attacks that really matter. Therefore, this aspect may frustrate a new player that doesn't have a lot of experience with the game. MirageExample: In Mortrialus's thought experiment, the correct thing for the mirage to do after he stunned the other mirage was to try to bait out the other player's dodge if you knew he had one. In fact, after the stunned mirage was stunned, the other mirage was probably on guard to expect a large attack to dodge anyway. Therefore, if you baited it out with a smaller attack, you could immediately follow up with a larger attack after the dodge and the mirage could perhaps be left defenseless. Mirages are fairly strong against cc, which IMO isn't necessarily a bad thing if it is properly balanced around it. However, what this means is instead of focussing on cc'ing a class like you would most others, you instead need to change your focus to baiting out dodges as that takes away a large portion of their cc damage avoidance, damage, and general damage avoidance all at the same time. (AoE damage is also a mirage weakness) In fact, like my 'normal' example stated earlier, it may actually be better for a mirage to eat a stun or magic bullet 1v1 in the exact same way a wise, experienced player would do to eat a weaker attack. Although this may seem counterintuitive to many players just like eating a weaker attack would seem counterintuitive to non-gw2 players, it is important to know how a class functions and what their strengths and weaknesses are. If class X and class Y have different strengths and weaknesses, you can't expect to fight against both classes the exact same way and get exactly the same results. I think this is where a lot of frustration comes from. It's not like mirages have infinite dodges, therefore, they don't have an infinite amount of ways to avoid cc. Mirages are very strong with dodges. However, a mirage without any dodges left is very arguably much weaker comparatively than any other class without dodges, as it should be. Finally, if this was a group fight, that second mirage that got stunned would still be at a disadvantage if there was another class with AoE in the picture since dodging while stun is not exactly the same as blink or another form of stun break. Although you can dodge an attack while stunned, you are a prime candidate for an attack, and especially an AoE attack, as soon as that .75 sec dodge wears out, as you still did not move an inch during that dodge. Conclusion: the correct way to balance mirage is to use data and statistics. If it is over performing than it really needs to be looked at again asap. However, if it is not over performing than perhaps the bark of the wolf is worse than the bite. However, one thing I definitely would do with mirage is shift the condi damage from mirage cloak back to the player, just so IH isn't so powerful compared to the other traits.

Whatever outliers there are is whatever outliers the data and statistics says there are.Human emotions just get in the way, even if they are dev emotions, and just negatively impact the proper balancing choices.When I say this, I am referring to the definition of 'balance' in the strictest of senses.If you are asking for the player's subjective opinions of what outliers there are, you are already walking down the wrong road.The only exception is if you are only asking this question simply to pacify the player base, as would make sense since pretty much all the players who posted here, and then some, have already stated their opinions in the forums in the past. Power is relative. If I dropped a character from an old school boxing game into gw2, of course it would get smashed. However, that boxing character is balanced for its game. The only thing that matters is the power to defense ratio.In this case, I think there should be a variety. Some classes and specializations have a higher power to defense ratio and some have a lower ones. Of course, power level also matters in terms of trait balance and trait line balance (example: one trait or trait line way more powerful than others).However, absolute power levels only matter with PvE. Then the Systems team really needs a good couple weeks to month or so looking at the old posts already on the forums since PoF launch, and not just the PvP forums, but all the class specific forums and WvW forum as well. Of course it wouldn't appear to be worth the investment now, but it would be in the future as that is the only proper way of doing it. There is simply no easy way around it-if you want to do it right.

I think the devs are going to say "working as intended", just like Elusive Mind.Time for acceptance and to just move on. However, to answer your question with my opinion, I think there is no doubt that chrono needs some changes. However, I don't think Wells spawning clones is the solution as those newly spawned clones are still going to insta die in WvW anyway and you want to have clones before hand in the first place to use continuum split so that you can use utility skills in continuum split. In essence, with your solution the solution is always going to occur after the problem anyways. One thing is for sure though, anybody who witnessed PvP before illusionary Persona went baseline knows why it needed to go baseline in the first place.

Same in PvP for one match. Just tried logging in over and over again, but got dishonor anyway. Can we get our lost ranked points back from this?It doesn't seem right to be punished for the games mistake.

Quality over quantity. You are also supporting the argument because Elementalists would love nothing more than to blindly press 1/F1 skills and be meta like so many builds today. Instead we have to be Mozart. Furthermore, we have no weapon swap to balance the quantity, which is debatable. But sadly, Elementalists have no reveal so your argument is weak.So yes, please remove stealth from Mesmers . Amen.A complete non-sequitur about elementalist that has nothing to do with the problems surrounding Mesmer class.Not only that but a weak argument as well - ele is pretty hard, in general at least. It's easy to be mediocre at tho. So a lot of reasonably talented players end up wrongly assuming that they know what they're talking about after playing ele for a total of 200 hours or less. Some people are really terrible in one regard though - the ones who play for many, many hours, but still don't understand and want to enforce their wrong opinion on everyone else. I don't know if this is what it is at play here but it's something I like to remind people to keep in mind when assessing responses like these. Back on subject.Does mesmer need stealth to be removed? I think mesmer needs less f** clone builds. The clone generation (edit: overall/general) is fine but niche builds that can generate WAY TOO MANY are, well ... generating way too many No kitten sherlock, once again, I know it is non-sequitur. That is why I made it, to show how the Op's initial argument reasons are flawed by simplifying the argument just to what they said. Stealth is not a thief only mechanic. Their mechanic is initiative and steal. That is why mesmer has had some stealth since launch and why ranger and scrapper have stealth. It is almost like 75% of people on the forums don't know how to read or tell when someone is being sarcastic. Dude, be an adult and be straight with people. Your disrespect is wasting everyone's time and making things more hostile. Personally I don't much like stealth in this game. It is way too binary, and easily waltzes into OP territory. However, I recognize that it is necessary for mesmers to be duplicitous. If mesmers didn't have a way to disappear, then all they would be is weaker battlemages that make ignore-able doppelgangers. To get rid of stealth, you'd have to make it so mesmers randomly swap position with their clones whenever they'd use one of these stealth skills (a la mirage deceptions), which would be jarring to play and hard to manage. As much as I don't like stealth, the game is built around it. For better or worse, stealth is here to stay. I appologize. @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" Sorry, I just got frustrated since you called my argument non-sequitur when I wrote before you posted that it was meant to be that way on purpose and what the meaning behind saying it was. It was also frustrating when multiple people misinterpreted it in the first place. I also admit that I get frustrated when people have argued until once mesmer only mechanics like alacrity and portal were given to other classes and then others pop in and say another mechanic that mesmer has had since launch should now be thief only. It feels like a another big wad of spit on the face when it feels like mesmer has been kicked around for months already (by kicked around, I'm not talking about OPness for which it rightfully deserved, but about loosing build and trait variety, nerfs to some core traits caused by specializations, some traits becoming useless, and revamps of chrono that made it once again the only class that can't use it's special mechanic except in very specific circumstances, eps in WvW). I also realize that some people become frustrated by stealth or confused. However, it is stated on the website on the mesmer class description that, "They weave deception magic that seeks to confound, disorient and dumbfound their enemies." Additionally, I feel like confusions, discernment, and targeting abilities are all qualities that people can become better at and improve as players. Therefore, I believe they make for good skill ceilings to strive for. This is the play style I have enjoyed playing on gw2 for many years from all the highs and lows. If you think a specific mesmer build is OP, I think that is a worthy discussion. You think stealth is OP or doesn't have enough counter play? I think that is a worthy discussion. However, plz consider that some people have enjoyed this confusion oriented play style for many years, regardless of how OP or non-OP some builds have been. Therefore, plz don't specifically target mesmers about a multi-class skill mechanic simply due to its play style. Lets plz keep those distinguishments separate. However, additionally if you think this is the case, plz treat all classes equally that have stealth: thief, engi, ranger, etc.Thank you,