Mega.5791

Hold on. Are we talking about LR weaver? Shocking aura spam tempest? And are we just taling about "fun to play against" or actual OPness? I am getting mixed signals here. I even read blind spam on ele...? People annoyed by some S/F arcane build too...? I do not think many LR builds are a problem. It might be strong in some situations, so reduce damage a little, reduce weakness duration maybe. Some builds heavily rely on Shocking aura as a life saver versus certain builds. The aura should not be changed. Looking at Shocking aura share and Lightning hammer Tempest: Well, it has a very clear weakness (conditions), but I might agree there are some too many stuns on it. Maybe check Hammer (and/or shield pull for that matter)? LR weaver? Though I believe damage reduction and weakness duration would do the trick. Weaver only brings one CC to the table after all. Maybe Mud slide should only CC once in general, just like Slick shoes.

While I don't think the build is problemativ (yet), I agree it has a strong nieche: Which is fighting power specs. As long as there are condi builds coutnering it, it should be fine. But if conditions get nerfed, this will become an issue. Suggestion: Reduce the weakness duration if you nerf conditions with the next patch (looking at you, condi rev). Alternatively bring an internal CD, but I don't like those.

Referring this to stomping/rezzing (the only thing that got change by becoming a channel, apart from the stowability): You can rezz someone more quickly than these 3s duration, even without rezz traits. There are several 2on2 comps out there that just keep rezzing each other, mainly dual necros. There are few ways to deal with them, one being cleave + safe stomp. So: I would be okay with this change (as long as Elixir S got the same treatment), if other classes did not have such an easy time rezzing and corrupting anytime they wanted. Until then, this feels random and like a completely unnecessary nerf to ele. @Megametzler.5729 said: Referring this to stomping/rezzing (the only thing that got change by becoming a channel, apart from the stowability): You can rezz someone more quickly than these 3s duration, even without rezz traits. There are several 2on2 comps out there that just keep rezzing each other, mainly dual necros. There are few ways to deal with them, one being cleave + safe stomp. So: I would be okay with this change (as long as Elixir S got the same treatment), if other classes did not have such an easy time rezzing and corrupting anytime they wanted. Until then, this feels random and like a completely unnecessary nerf to ele. That part I can agree with. Though, Id say the main change is to not be able to invuln while youre CCd. Which is probably not neccessary either? There are again two sides of this coin:a) Okay, as long as Elixir S gets the same treatment (and, potentially, vapour form).b) It is, however, not necessary in my view, because neither skill has been opressive. There are far more important concerns. We simply don't know why they changed this. And leave other things untouched. And then they add such a horrible bug/misprogramming. Has to be changed immediately. Even though I am an ele main using focus with many builds, I don't want to play before this is changed. I dont think you can stomp in Vaporform? I mean, Im not sure. I havent seen anyone use that skill in ages. Anyway, yeah the channeled thing is weird. Im not sure why they did that. The lockout however makes sense. Full invuln while being able to fight is just stupid. You used to be able to do that, but I admit, I haven't used vapour form much in ages either.^^ Oh, and as somebody mentioned: Yes, attacking during invulnerability is awful. They should check distortion next to bring it in line! Balance is obviously not the point here. Well, lets ignore the Vapourform question for a bit, but as for Distortion, hey you wont find me shedding a tear if it gets the same treatment, buuut even then it at least requires clones to get a long duration. Still, removing it would be perfectly reasonable as far as Im concerned. I agree! Back to topic: Thanks for fixing! @Megametzler.5729 said: Referring this to stomping/rezzing (the only thing that got change by becoming a channel, apart from the stowability): You can rezz someone more quickly than these 3s duration, even without rezz traits. There are several 2on2 comps out there that just keep rezzing each other, mainly dual necros. There are few ways to deal with them, one being cleave + safe stomp. So: I would be okay with this change (as long as Elixir S got the same treatment), if other classes did not have such an easy time rezzing and corrupting anytime they wanted. Until then, this feels random and like a completely unnecessary nerf to ele. @Megametzler.5729 said: Referring this to stomping/rezzing (the only thing that got change by becoming a channel, apart from the stowability): You can rezz someone more quickly than these 3s duration, even without rezz traits. There are several 2on2 comps out there that just keep rezzing each other, mainly dual necros. There are few ways to deal with them, one being cleave + safe stomp. So: I would be okay with this change (as long as Elixir S got the same treatment), if other classes did not have such an easy time rezzing and corrupting anytime they wanted. Until then, this feels random and like a completely unnecessary nerf to ele. That part I can agree with. Though, Id say the main change is to not be able to invuln while youre CCd. Which is probably not neccessary either? There are again two sides of this coin:a) Okay, as long as Elixir S gets the same treatment (and, potentially, vapour form).b) It is, however, not necessary in my view, because neither skill has been opressive. There are far more important concerns. We simply don't know why they changed this. And leave other things untouched. And then they add such a horrible bug/misprogramming. Has to be changed immediately. Even though I am an ele main using focus with many builds, I don't want to play before this is changed. I dont think you can stomp in Vaporform? I mean, Im not sure. I havent seen anyone use that skill in ages. Anyway, yeah the channeled thing is weird. Im not sure why they did that. The lockout however makes sense. Full invuln while being able to fight is just stupid. You used to be able to do that, but I admit, I haven't used vapour form much in ages either.^^ Oh, and as somebody mentioned: Yes, attacking during invulnerability is awful. They should check distortion next to bring it in line! Balance is obviously not the point here. Well, lets ignore the Vapourform question for a bit, but as for Distortion, hey you wont find me shedding a tear if it gets the same treatment, buuut even then it at least requires clones to get a long duration. Still, removing it would be perfectly reasonable as far as Im concerned. I agree! Back to topic: Thanks for fixing! Im guessing it was fixed by just making the cancelled channel not refund cooldown?Can't test currently, but that's what the patch notes say, yepp.

Referring this to stomping/rezzing (the only thing that got change by becoming a channel, apart from the stowability): You can rezz someone more quickly than these 3s duration, even without rezz traits. There are several 2on2 comps out there that just keep rezzing each other, mainly dual necros. There are few ways to deal with them, one being cleave + safe stomp. So: I would be okay with this change (as long as Elixir S got the same treatment), if other classes did not have such an easy time rezzing and corrupting anytime they wanted. Until then, this feels random and like a completely unnecessary nerf to ele. @Megametzler.5729 said: Referring this to stomping/rezzing (the only thing that got change by becoming a channel, apart from the stowability): You can rezz someone more quickly than these 3s duration, even without rezz traits. There are several 2on2 comps out there that just keep rezzing each other, mainly dual necros. There are few ways to deal with them, one being cleave + safe stomp. So: I would be okay with this change (as long as Elixir S got the same treatment), if other classes did not have such an easy time rezzing and corrupting anytime they wanted. Until then, this feels random and like a completely unnecessary nerf to ele. That part I can agree with. Though, Id say the main change is to not be able to invuln while youre CCd. Which is probably not neccessary either? There are again two sides of this coin:a) Okay, as long as Elixir S gets the same treatment (and, potentially, vapour form).b) It is, however, not necessary in my view, because neither skill has been opressive. There are far more important concerns. We simply don't know why they changed this. And leave other things untouched. And then they add such a horrible bug/misprogramming. Has to be changed immediately. Even though I am an ele main using focus with many builds, I don't want to play before this is changed. I dont think you can stomp in Vaporform? I mean, Im not sure. I havent seen anyone use that skill in ages. Anyway, yeah the channeled thing is weird. Im not sure why they did that. The lockout however makes sense. Full invuln while being able to fight is just stupid. You used to be able to do that, but I admit, I haven't used vapour form much in ages either.^^ Oh, and as somebody mentioned: Yes, attacking during invulnerability is awful. They should check distortion next to bring it in line! Balance is obviously not the point here. Well, lets ignore the Vapourform question for a bit, but as for Distortion, hey you wont find me shedding a tear if it gets the same treatment, buuut even then it at least requires clones to get a long duration. Still, removing it would be perfectly reasonable as far as Im concerned.I agree! Back to topic: Thanks for fixing!

Referring this to stomping/rezzing (the only thing that got change by becoming a channel, apart from the stowability): You can rezz someone more quickly than these 3s duration, even without rezz traits. There are several 2on2 comps out there that just keep rezzing each other, mainly dual necros. There are few ways to deal with them, one being cleave + safe stomp. So: I would be okay with this change (as long as Elixir S got the same treatment), if other classes did not have such an easy time rezzing and corrupting anytime they wanted. Until then, this feels random and like a completely unnecessary nerf to ele. @Megametzler.5729 said: Referring this to stomping/rezzing (the only thing that got change by becoming a channel, apart from the stowability): You can rezz someone more quickly than these 3s duration, even without rezz traits. There are several 2on2 comps out there that just keep rezzing each other, mainly dual necros. There are few ways to deal with them, one being cleave + safe stomp. So: I would be okay with this change (as long as Elixir S got the same treatment), if other classes did not have such an easy time rezzing and corrupting anytime they wanted. Until then, this feels random and like a completely unnecessary nerf to ele. That part I can agree with. Though, Id say the main change is to not be able to invuln while youre CCd. Which is probably not neccessary either? There are again two sides of this coin:a) Okay, as long as Elixir S gets the same treatment (and, potentially, vapour form).b) It is, however, not necessary in my view, because neither skill has been opressive. There are far more important concerns. We simply don't know why they changed this. And leave other things untouched. And then they add such a horrible bug/misprogramming. Has to be changed immediately. Even though I am an ele main using focus with many builds, I don't want to play before this is changed. I dont think you can stomp in Vaporform? I mean, Im not sure. I havent seen anyone use that skill in ages. Anyway, yeah the channeled thing is weird. Im not sure why they did that. The lockout however makes sense. Full invuln while being able to fight is just stupid.You used to be able to do that, but I admit, I haven't used vapour form much in ages either.^^ Oh, and as somebody mentioned: Yes, attacking during invulnerability is awful. They should check distortion next to bring it in line! Balance is obviously not the point here.

Referring this to stomping/rezzing (the only thing that got change by becoming a channel, apart from the stowability): You can rezz someone more quickly than these 3s duration, even without rezz traits. There are several 2on2 comps out there that just keep rezzing each other, mainly dual necros. There are few ways to deal with them, one being cleave + safe stomp. So: I would be okay with this change (as long as Elixir S got the same treatment), if other classes did not have such an easy time rezzing and corrupting anytime they wanted. Until then, this feels random and like a completely unnecessary nerf to ele. @Megametzler.5729 said: Referring this to stomping/rezzing (the only thing that got change by becoming a channel, apart from the stowability): You can rezz someone more quickly than these 3s duration, even without rezz traits. There are several 2on2 comps out there that just keep rezzing each other, mainly dual necros. There are few ways to deal with them, one being cleave + safe stomp. So: I would be okay with this change (as long as Elixir S got the same treatment), if other classes did not have such an easy time rezzing and corrupting anytime they wanted. Until then, this feels random and like a completely unnecessary nerf to ele. That part I can agree with. Though, Id say the main change is to not be able to invuln while youre CCd. Which is probably not neccessary either?There are again two sides of this coin:a) Okay, as long as Elixir S gets the same treatment (and, potentially, vapour form).b) It is, however, not necessary in my view, because neither skill has been opressive. There are far more important concerns. We simply don't know why they changed this. And leave other things untouched. And then they add such a horrible bug/misprogramming. Has to be changed immediately. Even though I am an ele main using focus with many builds, I don't want to play before this is changed.

Referring this to stomping/rezzing (the only thing that got change by becoming a channel, apart from the stowability): You can rezz someone more quickly than these 3s duration, even without rezz traits. There are several 2on2 comps out there that just keep rezzing each other, mainly dual necros. There are few ways to deal with them, one being cleave + safe stomp. So: I would be okay with this change (as long as Elixir S got the same treatment), if other classes did not have such an easy time rezzing and corrupting anytime they wanted. Until then, this feels random and like a completely unnecessary nerf to ele.

This change is in one big way a buff from the previous version in that you can cancel it to go back on the offensive rather than having to wait for it to expire to do anything else. Channeled blocks like shield stance get deliberately canceled all the time once they have neutralized the attack they are needed for then straight back to attack which can now be done with obsi flesh. Still way weaker than the original version of the skill obviously and obviously not working as intended with short cd on canceling it. There is a difference: Until now, you were not supposed to stop the invulnerability. Because you could not use the skill on point withour risking a decap (except one single tick or so?), so it used to be a risky choice for sidenoders. Just like Vapor Form or Elixir S. I admit, Renewed Focus was always different here, but that had its focus on the renewing of the Tome skills. I It opened a lot of necessary considerations somewhere else. And I do not think it is as powerful as all these rezz skills out there on far bunkier builds than tempest. Tempest has huge problems with rezzes, because most buuilds lack stability or have to sacrifice lots of boons. I don't think anyone saw this as a problem, so I hope, Elixir S will be brought in line too. Because it just seems like a random equalisation of a skill without any real balancing issues.

Why was it changed at all? Because the stomps and rezzes were OP? Meanwhile core necros play unkillable rezz bots in pairs? Yes, fix it fast! Or revert the whole horrible change! Not being able to cast is fine and fair, but why not for stomps and rezzes?

Happened to me on my yolo build the other day. Just relogg and it's fine. Still dumb though.

This is basically a proof - calculated by MATH!

It's math based on math. The only truely objective science. I can prove it using math. Arguing is futile. Unfortunately, math cannot serve to prove itself. A horrible problem, which, as far as I know, still stands in the mathematical society. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems

I just want Air 3 to be just a tiny little bit more like mesmer GS 5. I literally stand insitde my enemies and it still misses. :lol: Ele is kinda bad in 2on2 indeed, but on conquest it is okay. Staff would need reworks to be viable in PVP, but that might make the weapon op in other modes... I don't know I like the style of staff, but I am not seeing it happening somehow. :disappointed: €: Profession forums need to be biased. :smile:

inb4 "Ranger has ONE ability to do damage, you need to l2p, git gud and JuSt DoDgE!!!11" Still not the worst current offender though, because the defense is kind of low. Hope the others get emergency nerfed next week though.

I am sometimes playing an FA tempest with warhorn. Catch someone in air WH4 + 5 and overload and watch anything melt. The blind in earth is nice too. It is definitely a meme though, because for high level play, the skills are way too slow - cast-time-wise and damage-wise. But it can be fun in certain situations.

Not saying it is OP, but it has very unfun side effects. My main problem is with long duration stealth, because of 2 reasons: You simply cannot anticipate the burst. You don't see Black Powder, you don't hear it and if you do, the thief might pop out anywhere else on the map. Same goes for some mesmer builds. When playing a side noder, whenever a thief stealthes on mid - and you cant interrupt them stealthing up - you need to run to sides. Covering the whole distance with stealth forces side noders who cannot really help on mid spend a long time just running. Possible solution: Reduce speed in stealth. They can still use it defensively or for short-term bursts in combination with teleports, still dodge. But not cover half the map stealthed. By how much? Only after 3s? I'd be open for suggestions. I'd also be open for some compensation. Get aegis when getting stealth for 1s? Getting superspeed for a small time before the decrease?

So I had a look into this. I compared the normal water weaver build, not fire, useless rune. PVP setting. Base amulet is sage. Compared to this: mender and celestial. Mender gets about 13% power damage, looses 55% condi damage. 2.2% less health, but 31% more healing. Celestial gets 1.3% power damage, looses 31% condi damage. 7.5% less health and 6.2% less healing. You win 46% toughness though, which results in about 24% more armor - about the same in power damage reduction. You decide what you want to use.

I mean, this is WvW...

That... sounds like something you could do in unranked too? On-demand tournaments would solve this issue too of course, much better even. Where you can measure yourselves with other full teams.

I will have to try cele out, but using dagger offhand is pretty rough, isn't it? I mean, it does have that awesome dagger air 4 skill, but focus has that all-important invuln plus plenty of much-needed projectile hate and, with the fire build, being able to cast/detonate fire aura on fire 5 is key for condi cleanse, no? Also, cele has way less damage and healing potential. It can add some toughness, which can be helpful in certain situations, but usually not worth it. Speaking from my own experience here. And you are absolutely right about the fire aura thing. It is one of the reasons fire weaver is so dominant currently and absolutely depends on focus offhand. The constant aura cleansing is huge, though core necro will remain a tough one if he manages to keep corrupting stability.

So looking up this match, it looks like the matchmaker did a pretty good job in this case! No duo queues. Winning TeamElementalist 1229Thief 1365Warrior 1298Ranger 1297Ranger 1411Avg 1320 Losing TeamElementalist 1402Elementalist 1276Thief 1214Guardian 1351Ranger 1309Avg 1310.4 Keep in mind that final score of a match isn't always indicative of good or bad matchmaking. There are a lot of factors that affect it outside of skill rating. Your team could have given up after the losing the first team fight. Sometimes teams just don't play up to their skill level. The opposing team could have been playing above their normal skill level. I'm not saying our matchmaking is perfect by any means, but it generally does a pretty decent job of making sure both teams are balanced. This is the kind of communication I am hoping for. Of course you can't answer everything, but here and there some actual facts might really help. We know you have plenty of work to do, but... still, highly appreciated (and hoping for more :wink:). Thanks! :smile:

Wow. Victimblaming at its finest. There is another famous sort of unethic behaviour, where this is done frequently. Not going to name it because of forum rules though, but your response matches that other case in many ways. I find this reaction absolutely horrible. @OP: I am very sorry you got harassed. While it should indeed be punished or at least discouraged - none of this is really done by Anet, though many suggestions have been proposed -, unfortunately the only way to deal with it currently is: 1) disable map chat, 2) quickly put people on /ignore or 3) grow a thicker skin. Just don't forget to also remember the positive examples and try to be one yourself! :smile:

Both. But focusing on classes that are too strong, so (basically) nerfs only. Something is too strong at the top? Nerf it. It is unfair when looking at the leaderboard/mATs. Something is too strong for average players? Nerf it. Those are mostly unkillable bunkers or one-shot machines, which make the game less fun to play. Only a sith deals in absolutes!

Classes that currently have skills that are stunbreak and dodges: Ele, Ranger, Thief, Revenant, Mesmer (the majority) Illusory Ambush is not a stunbreak. I guess he means https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Through_Glass

thief is also a meta sidenoder right now though so you're not really right :^) so thief is the king sidenoder? Pw thief can win most 1v1 matchups and stale weaver, but it also dies faster to +1s and it also loses MU to core ranger/slb/symbol brand meanwhile water weav can stale everything/beat very few but is immortal to +1s hol up, how can thief stall weaver? this one sounds ridiculous to me. The cleanse on evade renders weaver's condi damage useless. Not sure whether equal skill is a stalemate, but it is close. Condi damage is actually a little more effective against perma dodge builds. I wouldn’t say it can stalemate at all, any thief build can just avoid attackers and dodge to try and keep node on their side or from getting capped for a bit but as a 1v1er pw dash is no where close to better side noders in this meta like prot holo , weaver, guardians etc. only one it might beat is condi mirage or dps holosmith and it’s still a maybe.Though there are other thief builds that can stall forever in a 1v1 like bunker staff, though it’s weak to plusses now and a few more damage oriented builds that’ll actually win these 1v1s from burst, which maybe pw dash can do sometimes.In the end thief rn is mostly being played as a brawler so the fact it can handle 1v1s for a tiny bit is not surprising, but actual side node builds are usually duelist so thief won’t be even close to the top as a side noder I am not saying thief is the greatest side noder. A weaver should never actually lose to a thief in a duel scenario (assuming equal skill level). But here I am referring to Escapist's Fortitude. It gives S/P thief a great too versus condi weaver, because of few cover conditions. This makes dodges rather good, because few weaver skills are stowable. I can actually agree that escapist fortitude is kind of op. I honestly don’t think pw in general is a problem, but it can damage evade and cc and with this trait it also sustains. I wouldn’t really want the trait to be nerfed as it would hurt some other builds, if I would suggest a change it would just be take away 1 role of pw. Not because it’s busted but for some roles totally unfun to see in a matchRole? You mean duelist/+1/decapper? I am no expert thief, so I'd leave suggestions to you guys. I also don't find it too annoying, since it doesn't excell in its roles, but I agree, it might simply be too flexible. Escapist's Fortitude might be strong, but I'd be fine if thief could spec for sustain condi-wise. As long as they would have less access to disengage or something else. Dunno.