Mega.5791

thief is also a meta sidenoder right now though so you're not really right :^) so thief is the king sidenoder? Pw thief can win most 1v1 matchups and stale weaver, but it also dies faster to +1s and it also loses MU to core ranger/slb/symbol brand meanwhile water weav can stale everything/beat very few but is immortal to +1s hol up, how can thief stall weaver? this one sounds ridiculous to me. The cleanse on evade renders weaver's condi damage useless. Not sure whether equal skill is a stalemate, but it is close. Condi damage is actually a little more effective against perma dodge builds. I wouldn’t say it can stalemate at all, any thief build can just avoid attackers and dodge to try and keep node on their side or from getting capped for a bit but as a 1v1er pw dash is no where close to better side noders in this meta like prot holo , weaver, guardians etc. only one it might beat is condi mirage or dps holosmith and it’s still a maybe.Though there are other thief builds that can stall forever in a 1v1 like bunker staff, though it’s weak to plusses now and a few more damage oriented builds that’ll actually win these 1v1s from burst, which maybe pw dash can do sometimes.In the end thief rn is mostly being played as a brawler so the fact it can handle 1v1s for a tiny bit is not surprising, but actual side node builds are usually duelist so thief won’t be even close to the top as a side noderI am not saying thief is the greatest side noder. A weaver should never actually lose to a thief in a duel scenario (assuming equal skill level). But here I am referring to Escapist's Fortitude. It gives S/P thief a great too versus condi weaver, because of few cover conditions. This makes dodges rather good, because few weaver skills are stowable.

thief is also a meta sidenoder right now though so you're not really right :^) so thief is the king sidenoder? Pw thief can win most 1v1 matchups and stale weaver, but it also dies faster to +1s and it also loses MU to core ranger/slb/symbol brand meanwhile water weav can stale everything/beat very few but is immortal to +1s hol up, how can thief stall weaver? this one sounds ridiculous to me.The cleanse on evade renders weaver's condi damage useless. Not sure whether equal skill is a stalemate, but it is close.

Get a room.

I wasn't sure about some of the druid stuff though.

Naah, it wouldn't. It lacks condi application outside of fire, and due to fire overload (which would probably be strong, but at a low range), fire access is limited. But that's just theory, give it a try and share experiences! :smile: Although it's not PvP, I beg to differ. I always assume equal skill level. :wink:

I honestly would like (some) nerfs to my favourite class so less people would play it. Would make me feel special again. :lol:

Twist of Fate has not been changed at all, ever. How has it become an issue now? It hasn't. Traiting fire should reduce the sustain on weaver significantly, more than it does now. And the burning is too bursty. Fire auras cleansing and the burning application should be changed to damage over time (look at the Glyph and double attuned Primordial Stance). I wouldn't even touch Invigorating Strikes, but that might become necessary. That's fine tuning though. The overall CDs on the weapon evades can be increased too or the durations decresed when all other builds get nerfs too. Otherwise you push water weavers and Lightning Rod eles out of the game (depending on which weapon skills you nerf), while the issue is with fire weaver only. Heck, you can reduce the evade uptime on ToF too, if you need to, if you nerf damage elsewhere or add some other sustain to weaver. Who said it just became an issue? In my opinion it always was an issue, no matter if used or not. It is an ammo btw i just didn't remember it had the same recharge line running on the edge of the tooltip. Just checked it ingame. I think the mechanic itself is not healthy in general but after rethinking (i forgot about Roll for Initiative what i never rly considered an issue and i just asked me why) i think if we have single skills with high cd on squishy (melee) classes it is clearly less of an issue, less enough to not delete it maybe. Still on Weaver with an ammo skill on a class with nearly perma stabi and such facetank ability it is not healthy just as it isn't on Mesmers EM trait because of the low cd (still more than 7secs considering the Mesmer cannot use dodges only for stunbreaks). Same for Rev with that overall insane amount of dodges/ stunbreaks in general. And before we remove soemthing else on these builds, i would go for this one first because as said, i still think the mechanic is not healthy in general. For Weaver, Rev and Mesmer its the same: The utility and the trait rewarding facetanking the cc too much and neutralize lock down mechanic way too hard and too often considering the whole spec design and cds. On Weaver even more because it adds even more dodges in addition to normal dodges and low cd weapon dodge on a facetank spec with high resustain ability and nearly perma stabi. I am all with you if you wanted to reduce stunbreaks along with stuns in the game. I also agree ele has a very specific defense - evades. Other classes have blocks, stealth, blinds, offering more counterplay (dodges still have some, but few indeed. Ground stun fields and stuff, shocking aura). But if you nerf it now, you will hurt many other weaver specs as well. That is why changes should focus on the problematic builds, not skills every other specs use too. But let's have a more specific look at it: What exactly would you like to see ToF change into? Just getting rid of the evade, together with a CD reduction? Or block instead of evade? (I still think decreasing the CD of Primordial Stance was completely random and noone ever asked for this. Anet could revert this, since you mention lots of stability. But this is not the core question here I think?) Either remove the stunbreak or the dodge, i don't even mind which one, but because Weaver has nearly perma stabi anyway keeping the dodge with the current animation Ele mains would prefer i guess. Or you make it a stunbreak with a combofinisher that has the current dodge (the whirling around) animation, to compensate for the defense loss from less dodges (that is what i would prefer on the first view). It 100% needs the stunbreak! It is weaver's only one. I also wouldn't mind the animation tbh... instead of the evade one or two seconds of aegis? (This would be a minor nerf, but fine in my opinion. Won't come though, because ele is not allowed to have access to impactful boons though. :lol:) The animation needs to have a reason because it locks the Weaver into it, or just delete the whirling animation when we make it a stunbreak without dodge. Such a long animation for only a combofinisher that can be interrupted wouldn't make sense. Maybe make the animation just shorter (1,4 secs or 1/2) add the combofinisher and some vulnerabilty stacks? I don't rly like the Aegis idea.Yaah, delete the animation. I don't care. A combofinisher would be random - combos in general have very limited use. Only water and smoke fields are really relevant - who would wait with a burst when the enemy has Frost aura up? Exactly. No one cares. And whirl finishers are almost as bad as projectiles... You sound like you want to tie some offense to it? Like if you actually break a stun, deliver vulnerability stacks to punish or what is the idea behind this? Comparing it with Bandid's defense here (even though this is a stunbreak, block and then counterattack). Could add some nice interactivity indeed, as long as it is something significant. €: And if you delete the evade, reduce the CD according to whatever else you tie to it. Just deleting the evade would require it to have a CD of 30s or less. Which could increase the "perma" stability problem, but improve the "perma" evade situation. Yes, I'd like something like a counterattack after a stunbreak actually to avoid the CD/stab issue...

Twist of Fate has not been changed at all, ever. How has it become an issue now? It hasn't. Traiting fire should reduce the sustain on weaver significantly, more than it does now. And the burning is too bursty. Fire auras cleansing and the burning application should be changed to damage over time (look at the Glyph and double attuned Primordial Stance). I wouldn't even touch Invigorating Strikes, but that might become necessary. That's fine tuning though. The overall CDs on the weapon evades can be increased too or the durations decresed when all other builds get nerfs too. Otherwise you push water weavers and Lightning Rod eles out of the game (depending on which weapon skills you nerf), while the issue is with fire weaver only. Heck, you can reduce the evade uptime on ToF too, if you need to, if you nerf damage elsewhere or add some other sustain to weaver. Who said it just became an issue? In my opinion it always was an issue, no matter if used or not. It is an ammo btw i just didn't remember it had the same recharge line running on the edge of the tooltip. Just checked it ingame. I think the mechanic itself is not healthy in general but after rethinking (i forgot about Roll for Initiative what i never rly considered an issue and i just asked me why) i think if we have single skills with high cd on squishy (melee) classes it is clearly less of an issue, less enough to not delete it maybe. Still on Weaver with an ammo skill on a class with nearly perma stabi and such facetank ability it is not healthy just as it isn't on Mesmers EM trait because of the low cd (still more than 7secs considering the Mesmer cannot use dodges only for stunbreaks). Same for Rev with that overall insane amount of dodges/ stunbreaks in general. And before we remove soemthing else on these builds, i would go for this one first because as said, i still think the mechanic is not healthy in general. For Weaver, Rev and Mesmer its the same: The utility and the trait rewarding facetanking the cc too much and neutralize lock down mechanic way too hard and too often considering the whole spec design and cds. On Weaver even more because it adds even more dodges in addition to normal dodges and low cd weapon dodge on a facetank spec with high resustain ability and nearly perma stabi. I am all with you if you wanted to reduce stunbreaks along with stuns in the game. I also agree ele has a very specific defense - evades. Other classes have blocks, stealth, blinds, offering more counterplay (dodges still have some, but few indeed. Ground stun fields and stuff, shocking aura). But if you nerf it now, you will hurt many other weaver specs as well. That is why changes should focus on the problematic builds, not skills every other specs use too. But let's have a more specific look at it: What exactly would you like to see ToF change into? Just getting rid of the evade, together with a CD reduction? Or block instead of evade? (I still think decreasing the CD of Primordial Stance was completely random and noone ever asked for this. Anet could revert this, since you mention lots of stability. But this is not the core question here I think?) Either remove the stunbreak or the dodge, i don't even mind which one, but because Weaver has nearly perma stabi anyway keeping the dodge with the current animation Ele mains would prefer i guess. Or you make it a stunbreak with a combofinisher that has the current dodge (the whirling around) animation, to compensate for the defense loss from less dodges (that is what i would prefer on the first view).It 100% needs the stunbreak! It is weaver's only one. I also wouldn't mind the animation tbh... instead of the evade one or two seconds of aegis? (This would be a minor nerf, but fine in my opinion. Won't come though, because ele is not allowed to have access to impactful boons though. :lol:)

Twist of Fate has not been changed at all, ever. How has it become an issue now? It hasn't. Traiting fire should reduce the sustain on weaver significantly, more than it does now. And the burning is too bursty. Fire auras cleansing and the burning application should be changed to damage over time (look at the Glyph and double attuned Primordial Stance). I wouldn't even touch Invigorating Strikes, but that might become necessary. That's fine tuning though. The overall CDs on the weapon evades can be increased too or the durations decresed when all other builds get nerfs too. Otherwise you push water weavers and Lightning Rod eles out of the game (depending on which weapon skills you nerf), while the issue is with fire weaver only. Heck, you can reduce the evade uptime on ToF too, if you need to, if you nerf damage elsewhere or add some other sustain to weaver. Who said it just became an issue? In my opinion it always was an issue, no matter if used or not. It is an ammo btw i just didn't remember it had the same recharge line running on the edge of the tooltip. Just checked it ingame. I think the mechanic itself is not healthy in general but after rethinking (i forgot about Roll for Initiative what i never rly considered an issue and i just asked me why) i think if we have single skills with high cd on squishy (melee) classes it is clearly less of an issue, less enough to not delete it maybe. Still on Weaver with an ammo skill on a class with nearly perma stabi and such facetank ability it is not healthy just as it isn't on Mesmers EM trait because of the low cd (still more than 7secs considering the Mesmer cannot use dodges only for stunbreaks). Same for Rev with that overall insane amount of dodges/ stunbreaks in general. And before we remove soemthing else on these builds, i would go for this one first because as said, i still think the mechanic is not healthy in general. For Weaver, Rev and Mesmer its the same: The utility and the trait rewarding facetanking the cc too much and neutralize lock down mechanic way too hard and too often considering the whole spec design and cds. On Weaver even more because it adds even more dodges in addition to normal dodges and low cd weapon dodge on a facetank spec with high resustain ability and nearly perma stabi. I am all with you if you wanted to reduce stunbreaks along with stuns in the game. I also agree ele has a very specific defense - evades. Other classes have blocks, stealth, blinds, offering more counterplay (dodges still have some, but few indeed. Ground stun fields and stuff, shocking aura). But if you nerf it now, you will hurt many other weaver specs as well. That is why changes should focus on the problematic builds, not skills every other specs use too. But let's have a more specific look at it: What exactly would you like to see ToF change into? Just getting rid of the evade, together with a CD reduction? Or block instead of evade? (I still think decreasing the CD of Primordial Stance was completely random and noone ever asked for this. Anet could revert this, since you mention lots of stability. But this is not the core question here I think?)

Twist of Fate has not been changed at all, ever. How has it become an issue now? It hasn't. Traiting fire should reduce the sustain on weaver significantly, more than it does now. And the burning is too bursty. Fire auras cleansing and the burning application should be changed to damage over time (look at the Glyph and double attuned Primordial Stance). I wouldn't even touch Invigorating Strikes, but that might become necessary. That's fine tuning though. The overall CDs on the weapon evades can be increased too or the durations decresed when all other builds get nerfs too. Otherwise you push water weavers and Lightning Rod eles out of the game (depending on which weapon skills you nerf), while the issue is with fire weaver only. Heck, you can reduce the evade uptime on ToF too, if you need to, if you nerf damage elsewhere or add some other sustain to weaver.

Naah, it wouldn't. It lacks condi application outside of fire, and due to fire overload (which would probably be strong, but at a low range), fire access is limited. But that's just theory, give it a try and share experiences! :smile:

Just fix the damn visual bug on FC.

Okay okay, I get it. Are you having holidays already?

Next season I am going to troll my placements and start in silver...

:# I do agree Holo is not meta anymore. But it is still strong. I also agree on Elixir U not being the appropriate change... which is why I expect horrible changes to the - indeed overperforming - Fire weaver build...

Yes. Passive clones, passive healing, passive damage. Only got hit once and lots of damage. Passive survival, passive effects on dodge. Passive slow too. Nerf plox.

Not sure if trolling, but: No port spots are a very important tool for certain specs against others. It is absolutely needed (and wanted, I guess).

This would be an easy change to implement. :+1: I'd add a little nerf to condi cleanses via ICD on Sunspot of ~5s (available for overloads, but not to every weaver attunement change) and/or reduction of Transmute aura cleanse to 1 condi cleansed in PVP. This would affect tempest, but they don't use fire for sustain anyways. I guess we will get a nerf on Primordial stance and CD increases on evades. This will lead to bunker weaver becoming less viable and force everybody to play with fire...

If you are talking about the first season's diamond league, it did not really have any meaning on actual skill. It didn't measure your skill versus the enemy's, it was mainly farming. There is a whole new system since the new rating system was introduced. You could have won 7 matches against really really bad players, while your friend won 6 matches against good ones. That is why he got placed higher. But don't worry, you will climb towards your skill rating in time (assuming you don't change classes, only soloQ/duoQ, your build doesn't get nerfed/buffed, etc.). And now, after each season, there is only a soft reset, meaning you will reach your actual skill rating quicker in the following season.

Did they delete mesmer? :lol: Sorry, just wanted to add a joke. Nothing I disagree or agree with.

This made me smile. :tongue: "... and at this point I am too afraid to ask."

Idk man, I've gotten the jump on people and melted them in the 2-3 second range. That's against unaware generally poor players on something squishy but it is possible to melt some faces in a couple seconds on fire weaver and its happens fairly often for me. Just a l2p issue on their part but I just feel like you were over stating its near impossible to kill that fast but it's not if you catch them with their pants down. It definitely is mainly a l2p issue. Yes, fire weaver can burst hard against players without CDs, being unaware or just really slow. But in 2s, many classes can do the same. Pyro vortex is the same like Thousand blades, Gust is as telegraphed (and not an evade) like Bull's charge (and has a longer CD, and no damage...). The key is: disengage, when they have the Glyph. If you are low on condi cleanse, then also during fire attunement+ Primordial stance. Attack when neither is up and they switch to fire. The only defense then is potentially earth, when they come from there (long CD though). If they come from air or water, they only have ToF, which has a very long CD and only lasts 1s, while they cannot change attunements to something defensive for full 4s. Now I do agree fire weaver is a little problematic. Fire is a purely offensive traitline and gives too much sustain for that - not to power damage, mind you, but the cleanses are too much. It basically has the same personaly cleanses liek water weaver! In my view, giving Sunspot an ICD and/or reducing the cleanses from Transmute fire aura should do the trick. And change glyph to something less bursty, making the whole spec more stretched out DPS based. This way, the spec would be vulnerable to conditions and had a clear weakness next to poor mobility and low disengage/kite potential. Once people figure out it's counters and the overall meta changes, things for fire weaver will change. For a long time, people had to stack condi cleanses against scourge, condi mirage and thief. Fire weaver couldn't do much back then. Since they got nerfed, fire weaver has become strong without major changes. It's just that many viable builds focus on close combat and few cleanses, that is why minor adjustments to fire weaver are probably justified.

He'll always be on in our hearts though. But a secondary sun would be nice.

Or tweak burning application instead of hurting all other weaver builds as well. Reduce/disable double attunement condi application. Change glyph towards more active playstyle. Instead of double burning, push players to aim for cover condis and less burst. There are many solutions without having to hurt other builds, I agree with you in that.

Happy you made it! :smile: Congratulations! And don't be mad if you bounce up and down a little bit.^^