Mega.5791

So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs You can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games. I have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but... ... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode. Around 1550 with only playing memes.

In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.

I am kind of happy with the patch. It could have come like 6 months earlier and I don't agree with everything, but I am much more motivated now than before. I will see what kind of meta evolves now but exprimenting is fun.

I kind of agree. It is a solid patch, they addressed many important things. The way they addressed them is not optimal and kind of lazy, required very low effort, but it is something. I fear the clever suggestions of how things could have been reworked properly is lost these days. Might make a lot of unviable builds kind of playable and shakes up a lot of builds. Time to try out a couple of things, which is always good.

It got the Obsidian Flesh treatment. :lol:

:lol: This reminds me of something.

Some young people are driving too risky and end up having more accidents than older people. Should we increase the age for being allowed to get a driver's license? Don't punish many for the faults of a few.

GLICKO is a very sound and verified rating system. It can be criticized for a couple of things (not measuring the "clearness" of a victory/loss for example), but it remains pretty accurate in general (in the example, both sides are not valued so you dont lose more for a clear loss). However, the matchmaker struggles with several things indeed, mainly the low population, but other factors as well (duoQ, class switching/stacking etc.). Here comes a significant RNG factor into the equation - people suddenly duoQing, playing different builds and all that. Many people confuse these two systems and do not know what is doing what. Read these:http://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko.pdfhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

I do not think there is anything fundamentally wrong with "CC with huge damage" oder "CC without damage". The thing is: "CC with huge damage" needs a clear telegraph and such builds must not have many more additional must-dodge-skills. It is okay to bait dodges, it is necessary to count them and wait for blocks. This was what was wrong before february: There were so many of these skills, that at some point, a "CC with huge damage" could come in after spamming 3-4 big damage skills, wasting the enemies defensives too quickly. And then fights still only lasted less than 10 seconds regularly. No need to count CDs, no need to bait dodges, barely any stowing weapons anymore. Just spam your big damage skills. The solution was to start reducing the sheer amount of big damage skills. But where to start? How to do something consistently? They decided to go with all the CC skills, which is fine in general but resulted in situations like the Reaper Scythe doint like 5 damage, which ist... well, kind of ridiculous. But okay. Now you have to decide whether you dodge the CC and hide from the burst skill or you dodge the upcoming burst skill if you have a stunbreak ready. You do not need two dodges anymore. Now they also reduced the amount of stability and that lead to a major issue. Nerfing CCs needed a nerf in stab, right? Well, no. They should have added higher CDs on CCs too. Deleted some short DC dazes too, reduced AoE CC and all these things. Now there are still too many CCs for the amopunt of stab present which leads to CC chains while other people can still throw in damage. My idea? Bring back damage on CC or not, doesn't really matter. But reduce the amount of CCs overall. Why must shocking aura be shareable with 5 allies? Could it share one ICD? Why must Spellbreaker's FC daze everyone in a big radius? Why the constant dazes from Renegade? Why does Tornado put someone in a huge CC chain, even fear chains are debatable, while still being easier to handly with cleanses? Why is Scorchrazor on a 12s CD being an AoE knockdown? There is a lot of cases where I feel the CC is simply too much and that is where they should start. Should've started with the February patch. Damage or not doesn't really matter to me then.

I don't know what game you are playing xD. Fields are often used by experienced players to fill gaps e.g smoke fields for stealth(super usefull in WvW) , fire field gives might and so on . True a lot skills and traits are more efficient but fields aren't useless. For ele they even buffed the fire field in the last big change this also nerfed the might generation of the ele a lot in the same patch (the trait under it). (...) Fields and combos in general used to be much more important though in the core game. They were never buffed following the powercreep so many fields are barely useful anymore. Who cares about 3 might with a blast finisher in a fire field these days? Who cares about one stack of vulnerability for a projectile through a lightning field? Some of these effects should be buffed. Not all of them of course! But some are kinda poor, and that takes complexity out of the game. i think the other way is better. might stacking for example these days is quite passive and you're not actively stacking it but rather it happens just by doing what you're doing.. holo heat, ranger axe auto, scrapper stability etc. builds in the past actively tried to stack might (most of the time via fire auras and fire fields) and designed their rotation in a way to achieve that. if anything, fields should not be buffed, but might stacking on other builds (the ones that don't have access to the required fields/blasts/leaps) should be changed in a way that requires more "actice" ways to stack said buffs.Totally agree. I should've said adjusted. :smile: Reducing powercreep is a major task still.

I don't know what game you are playing xD. Fields are often used by experienced players to fill gaps e.g smoke fields for stealth(super usefull in WvW) , fire field gives might and so on . True a lot skills and traits are more efficient but fields aren't useless. For ele they even buffed the fire field in the last big change this also nerfed the might generation of the ele a lot in the same patch (the trait under it). (...) Fields and combos in general used to be much more important though in the core game. They were never buffed following the powercreep so many fields are barely useful anymore. Who cares about 3 might with a blast finisher in a fire field these days? Who cares about one stack of vulnerability for a projectile through a lightning field? Some of these effects should be buffed. Not all of them of course! But some are kinda poor, and that takes complexity out of the game.

Nobody likes condi thief though... If you read the forum, you can even shorten your sentence to: "Nobody likes condi"And I thought you would say "nobody likes thief" or "nobody likes anything". :grimace:

Nobody likes condi thief though...

Aren't necros minions dying as well on mouting? I know the worm does, not sure about the others... But yeah, let us keep them, why not. Feels like a minor issue, I would prefer a rework on conjured weapons, but... why not.

core engi still exist? i swear i never ever see it played.. about thief .. well.. as i said my main issue with it is stealth. but when it comes to daredevil.. its just way too strong with shadow art.holo is obviously more oip than thief but at the same time i find thief way more of an issue because of how common it is,,.. when you play solo ranked pvp.. having 2 daredevil in each team is a common thing.. and on roaming thieves are basically everywhere.. so yes .. nerf stealth and nerf shadow art and nerf holo xD .. if they are on it.. i will be happy to see fear nerf on core necro.. that endless fear is so annoying Neither do I! :lol: I meant, nerf holo to the ground. Then make core viable. Much better designwise, holo forge is just horrible.

Just a side note on how much thief is played: When there is no thief in the enemy team, I play power chrono. If there is, I switch to some other troll builds. So far, I think I played not a single game since I introduced this rule on mesmer (~ 20 games). So while I wouldn't say thief is OP, where are the nerfs to ecto? it is very very common and obviously strong. On Holo: Still strong, still meta, but less opressive. Would love the trash hammer to hit engi though (not core though).

What did I just read?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_(warrior_skill) . You are talking to an ele main, so... don't tell me anything about needing more variety of builds. :lol: Also, because on and a half builds have aegis, any other blocking skill may become unusable? Aegis isn't the only blocking skill. I severly disagree with this view.It is also Full counter it counters you fully that is the whole point of it, that is why spellbreaker gets only level one bursts and 2 bars of adrenaline, and over the years the deal is getting worse and worse, cause FC now is basically just a dodge that dazes at this point, imagine if ele got added direct negatives for picking the elites. It is also Arcane Blast, not Arcane Tickle. What kind of argument is that? :lol: FC is a short CD block, it stuns (not blocking) enemies, it applies a whole bunch of boons and copies conditions, it is a big AoE... how can you say it is just a dazing dodge? You also don't know ele very well obviously. Check the disadvantages of attunement swapping on ele's specialisations.The disadvantage is carpal tunnel on ele and has always been. Arcane blast is not a main mechanic that sells the whole spec, a drawback to ele would be that you get only 2 elements to attune to. Full counter by itself is dodge that dazes, the other things are added from the traitline, sorry but the rule is that traits are considered separate from the skill. Also all of warrior traitlines work this way they are directly tied to bursts, there it is nothing new or special. The point of the elite is that it counters and reduces the power of others so when you go up against it you should go in a more technical manner and be patient with your skills.I still don't get it why people do not respect the MAIN mechanic of the spec, like it doesn't do much, I would understand it if it was a full row of several skills but it is a skill that is on 8 second cd if you are running another traitline and it works if you have a resource that is gathered by getting 10 hits by default( which is kitten all for ele but for war is kinda hard). @Vancho.8750 said: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_(warrior_skill) . You are talking to an ele main, so... don't tell me anything about needing more variety of builds. :lol: Also, because on and a half builds have aegis, any other blocking skill may become unusable? Aegis isn't the only blocking skill. I severly disagree with this view.It is also Full counter it counters you fully that is the whole point of it, that is why spellbreaker gets only level one bursts and 2 bars of adrenaline, and over the years the deal is getting worse and worse, cause FC now is basically just a dodge that dazes at this point, imagine if ele got added direct negatives for picking the elites. It is also Arcane Blast, not Arcane Tickle. What kind of argument is that? :lol: FC is a short CD block, it stuns (not blocking) enemies, it applies a whole bunch of boons and copies conditions, it is a big AoE... how can you say it is just a dazing dodge? You also don't know ele very well obviously. Check the disadvantages of attunement swapping on ele's specialisations.The disadvantage is carpal tunnel on ele and has always been. Arcane blast is not a main mechanic that sells the whole spec, a drawback to ele would be that you get only 2 elements to attune to. Full counter by itself is dodge that dazes, the other things are added from the traitline, sorry but the rule is that traits are considered separate from the skill. Also all of warrior traitlines work this way they are directly tied to bursts, there it is nothing new or special. The point of the elite is that it counters and reduces the power of others so when you go up against it you should go in a more technical manner and be patient with your skills.I still don't get it why people do not respect the MAIN mechanic of the spec, like it doesn't do much, I would understand it if it was a full row of several skills but it is a skill that is on 8 second cd if you are running another traitline and it works if you have a resource that is gathered by getting 10 hits by default( which is kitten all for ele but for war is kinda hard). the disadvantage of tempest is that overloading puts your attunement on longer cooldown, the disadvantage to weaver is that you cant quickly access your offhand skills (like magnetic aura and obsi flesh) plus that you get a longer global attunement cooldown.You mean weaver that has 4 second fast hands instead of the default 10 or tempest that has bonus ability that may not be used and still have 10 second cd on weapon skills.Ele does not lose its options when picking its elite, it gets a bit more carpal tunnel but it doesn't get less options, it gets more. Core ele can go into one attunement and after global CD into another. They do not share one CD. Tempest without overload is like spellbreaker without FC,

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_(warrior_skill) . You are talking to an ele main, so... don't tell me anything about needing more variety of builds. :lol: Also, because on and a half builds have aegis, any other blocking skill may become unusable? Aegis isn't the only blocking skill. I severly disagree with this view.It is also Full counter it counters you fully that is the whole point of it, that is why spellbreaker gets only level one bursts and 2 bars of adrenaline, and over the years the deal is getting worse and worse, cause FC now is basically just a dodge that dazes at this point, imagine if ele got added direct negatives for picking the elites. It is also Arcane Blast, not Arcane Tickle. What kind of argument is that? :lol: FC is a short CD block, it stuns (not blocking) enemies, it applies a whole bunch of boons and copies conditions, it is a big AoE... how can you say it is just a dazing dodge? You also don't know ele very well obviously. Check the disadvantages of attunement swapping on ele's specialisations.(...) sorry but the rule is that traits are considered separate from the skill. (...) What kind of rule is that? :lol: Ele attunement swap CD is significantly reduced on Tempest when using overloads, which always involves a great risk. Weaver attunement changes share one cooldown, which makes reactive gameplay significantly harder. How are these no drawbacks? (...) and only show the negatives of Weaver or Tempests mechanics without the positives, then you're just being a doom and gloomer without seeing the negatives of having FC. But he asked specifically for the drawbacks????

Yeah, well, maybe ele players can only laugh at other classes' problems. That's all we have left. :lol:

Guess you haven't played Tempest nor Weaver. Guess you haven't played Berserker nor Spellbreaker. That's not a valid argument since both Tempest & Weaver are viable even in 1500+. Healbreaker is as good as (better than?) support tempest.Core warrior is a gazillion times better than core ele.Any weaver build is a meme and barely viable, just as any other warrior build. Both are in a sad spot indeed. That is @Widmo.3186 's point. Eles have been asking for build variety for years, but we are jumping between stupid side node bunkers and boring support builds since core FA times (NOT YOU D/D!!!). i mean, core FA was really bad back then. people tried to make it work after they killed off s/d and d/d side node ele. it got farmed by mesmer and thief. let's be honest here, ele never had a viable dps build even though core FA was fun.But it was far more playable than FA weaver today. Glass staff was kind of playable, now it gets farmed in silver. Yes, I am overexaggerating a litte. But the demand for more diversity has always been a major issue on ele. There are some other classes having this issue too, but even rev has had some more options recently.

Guess you haven't played Tempest nor Weaver. Guess you haven't played Berserker nor Spellbreaker. That's not a valid argument since both Tempest & Weaver are viable even in 1500+.Healbreaker is as good as (better than?) support tempest.Core warrior is a gazillion times better than core ele.Any weaver build is a meme and barely viable, just as any other warrior build. Both are in a sad spot indeed. That is @Widmo.3186 's point. Eles have been asking for build variety for years, but we are jumping between stupid side node bunkers and boring support builds since core FA times (NOT YOU D/D!!!).

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_(warrior_skill) . You are talking to an ele main, so... don't tell me anything about needing more variety of builds. :lol: Also, because on and a half builds have aegis, any other blocking skill may become unusable? Aegis isn't the only blocking skill. I severly disagree with this view.It is also Full counter it counters you fully that is the whole point of it, that is why spellbreaker gets only level one bursts and 2 bars of adrenaline, and over the years the deal is getting worse and worse, cause FC now is basically just a dodge that dazes at this point, imagine if ele got added direct negatives for picking the elites. It is also Arcane Blast, not Arcane Tickle. What kind of argument is that? :lol: FC is a short CD block, it stuns (not blocking) enemies, it applies a whole bunch of boons and copies conditions, it is a big AoE... how can you say it is just a dazing dodge? You also don't know ele very well obviously. Check the disadvantages of attunement swapping on ele's specialisations.(...) sorry but the rule is that traits are considered separate from the skill. (...)What kind of rule is that? :lol: Ele attunement swap CD is significantly reduced on Tempest when using overloads, which always involves a great risk. Weaver attunement changes share one cooldown, which makes reactive gameplay significantly harder. How are these no drawbacks?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_(warrior_skill) . You are talking to an ele main, so... don't tell me anything about needing more variety of builds. :lol: Also, because on and a half builds have aegis, any other blocking skill may become unusable? Aegis isn't the only blocking skill. I severly disagree with this view.It is also Full counter it counters you fully that is the whole point of it, that is why spellbreaker gets only level one bursts and 2 bars of adrenaline, and over the years the deal is getting worse and worse, cause FC now is basically just a dodge that dazes at this point, imagine if ele got added direct negatives for picking the elites. It is also Arcane Blast, not Arcane Tickle. What kind of argument is that? :lol: FC is a short CD block, it stuns (not blocking) enemies, it applies a whole bunch of boons and copies conditions, it is a big AoE... how can you say it is just a dazing dodge? You also don't know ele very well obviously. Check the disadvantages of attunement swapping on ele's specialisations.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_(warrior_skill) . You are talking to an ele main, so... don't tell me anything about needing more variety of builds. :lol: Also, because on and a half builds have aegis, any other blocking skill may become unusable? Aegis isn't the only blocking skill. I severly disagree with this view.