robertthebard.8150

There's not much of a conversation to be had. Nope, it's not based on "hours played", it's based on "years existed on the server". Why should a new player get 10 or 11 years worth of birthday presents on day one? "But it's not fair"? How would it be "fair" to that vet player to just start handing out every birthday present to every new character that gets rolled up? "Fairness" can be measured by the fact that it's going to take that new player the exact same amount of time to get the rewards that it took every other player that already has them, and every player that will get them going forward. That's how these incentives are intended to work.

So, I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly: It will take a new player exactly the same amount of time to earn a birthday present as it took a veteran player to earn the same gift, and this is somehow a problem?

How much money are they making on that game currently? Wait, it's "rumored to be a new MMO", so they're not making any money on it yet, since it's not on the market, right? Of note, the last time I checked, GW1 is still up and running, although I don't really know how populated it is, or how much, or if, it's generating any income.

I have answered it, several times, actually. So where did I come up with "hurt feelings"? Oh, I quoted you. I actually responded to what you said in this post. IF you weren't having hurt feelings, or feeling disrespected, we wouldn't still be having this conversation. We are. Why? Because despite what you claim here, you are bothered by this. It hurts your feelings, and makes you feel disrespected because someone will get something easier than what you had to do for it. This is why you presented a list of demands requests for compensation. What is it that you are needing compensated for again? Did they take your stuff and give it to new players? If they did that, I'll sharpen up my pitchfork, and grab a torch. Since that's not what happened, we're here discussing this because you feel cheated. As an aside to this, are you going to avoid using this method if you decide to gear an alt, or are you going to take full advantage of it, despite believing that it disrespects vets? If you do use it, are you going to return any freebies that you were given to "compensate" your hurt feelings?

Hmm. Why would anyone's feelings be hurt by something like this? The obvious answer is "it bruises my ego that someone got something easier/cheaper than I did". I also have to wonder, did you feel disrespected and have your feelings hurt when someone did what you did to obtain these rewards, but did it faster than you? Were you looking for ways to assuage your ego then too? Because let's be honest here; there is no inherent disrespect being shown to veteran players here, and there's no other reason to have one's feelings be hurt that someone got something easier other than a bruised ego. No game devs should ever have to build content around that, or structure rewards around that.

For the same reason you're asking for them? You asked me earlier how anyone else would feel slighted if you got free stuff; why do you feel slighted that someone else is getting something easier than what you got it? Unless something has been removed from your gear, then its intrinsic value has not decreased. If it is doing the same things now that it did when you earned it, and it hasn't been nerfed by an overall nerf, regardless of whether others can get it easier or not, then others getting it easier has absolutely no effect on you, other than your ego. You see, you asked me earlier how I know you haven't helped me, which goes to further my point; I don't know, and that was my point. You don't have any character build guides that I am following religiously, because I don't use them. You haven't sold me anything to build my Legendary gear, because I don't have any, and as I stated earlier, for what I actually do in game, I don't need any. You haven't saved me from any bosses, because I haven't been up against any, they're not why I'm here playing. I'm here because I don't have to fight them to be able to effectively play the game, and if I step away for an extended period, which I have from time to time, my gear is no worse off than it was when I got it. Something that you evidently don't understand, because you think that someone getting it in a way different from how you got it devalues your gear. I've played the gear treadmills, and I've done progression raiding, and that's why I enjoy this game, I don't have to ride the treadmill, and I don't have to raid if I don't want to, and I don't. This is, as I stated earlier, my "vacation" from those things. Everything you've done to secure your gear was done for your benefit. Don't get that twisted, that's the reason you're supposed to be doing it. The reason you are insisting that someone else getting it easier than how you did is because you feel slighted, and to come full circle, you don't care if others feel slighted, so long as you get what you want: free stuff. As I said, I wouldn't be up in arms over some kind of vet reward program thing, but insisting we need it because we need to be compensated for getting something the "hard" way, while others can now do it easier? You have the gear already, and that should be all the validation you need. As we can see, it's not.

Cooking stuff too... 😛

No, but I don't see why we would need them? It's not like anything we've done has actually lost any value, at least for the stuff we're actually going to use. Prices will fluctuate, but they already do that, because this kind of stuff is, and always will be, cyclical. A new batch of people get to where they need x mats, prices go back up, because of demand, then go down again when demand falls off. Plus, we already get things they don't get, and we don't even have to do anything but log in once a year on our birthdays. These are things that we get for sticking with the game for years. This doesn't even include the stuff we have in our banks. I have more level skipping items than I will ever be able to use, and I keep getting more of them, or I did. If that stopped tomorrow, I'd still have more than I can ever use. So no, just because the game has moved on from what it was doesn't mean we, or Beta/Launch vets should be getting free stuff to "compensate" them for how something has changed.

Are you looking for a step by step breakdown of what they're doing? Maybe they need to send you an email? So, reading these threads, across several MMO forums, and a fair few SP game forums, it would seem that what is being looked for is something like this: 7:50 AM, Dev 1, 2 and 4 clocked in. Dev 1 immediately logged into his development tools and started working on attempting to recreate Bug 6.99. He moved character 34 several in game meters in the X axis, then returned to the starting position, and moved in the -X axis several times. He then repeated these steps 43 times, before he finally got the bug to trigger. After this, he made what adjustments he could, and then repeated the process again. He stayed at this until lunch time, at which point, he had gone 2 hours w/out the bug showing up, and called it fixed. Meanwhile, Dev 2 logged into her dev tools, and loaded in character 12, and equipped and unequipped Weapon Z approximately 400 times, before recreating bug 7.55. At which point, she made what adjustments she could, and repeated the process 45 times, with the last 4 runs producing 0 instances of bug 7.55. Meanwhile, Dev 4 logged into their dev tools, and loaded in character 10, and started equipping and unequipping helmet 55. Bug 2.98, which is supposed to cause a CTD condition, never occurred from log in until lunch, and so she called it unrepeatable, and went to lunch. At 10 AM, Producer 1 started reading feedback from the community manager about new bugs, and assigning devs to look into them.

This may come across as a bit snarky, but that's not really the intention: Who are you? Not to put to fine a point to it, but none of your contributions to the game would seem to have benefitted me, because I have absolutely no idea who you are, nor do I know what it is you contributed to my enjoyment of the game at any stage. So, from my perspective, you've never had any value, so it would be hard for random new player 26789 getting gear faster than you to take anything away from that, wouldn't it? How does the aforementioned random player getting that gear take away from your sense of accomplishment at getting it? Unless, as I asked another poster earlier, you felt underwhelmed by your "accomplishment"? So, your solution to feeling slighted is to make others feel slighted by getting special treatment? Understand that, while I didn't come in during the betas, or at launch, it's not like I came in with the Steam launch or something, nor have I ever asked for special consideration. I mean, I don't even own the expansion that would let me get the skyskale easier, and I still haven't bothered to get it. Hell, I don't even have the jackyl or griffon yet either, just never felt like I needed 'em and never went after 'em. For all of that, I don't feel like someone else getting the skyskale easier is taking away from my experience. It's certainly not taking away from it enough that I feel the need to insist on special treatment. The reward for doing what you did to get what you got was getting what you got. If that didn't give you the sense of accomplishment, how is getting stuff for free going to do that? The simple answer is that it's not going to. What it is going to do is feed your sense of self worth. I mean, you state in this very post that your contributions to me, as a member of the community, are somehow lessened by other players getting stuff in an easier manner, and yet, I have no idea what it is that you contributed to my gameplay/enjoyment. It's hard to be worth less than nothing, isn't it? Again, I'm not trying to be mean here. It's simply that, despite what you believe, the main thing you have done is enhance your own experience, and frankly, that's all you're "required" to do. If I find things aren't fun, I don't do them. I also don't come to the forums and insist that they be changed to suit me. If you search up my post history, you'll find that despite the fact that I don't do group content, I have posted to the negative on any thread that insists that said content should be made solo-able, for example. It's an MMO, and despite the fact that this is my "vacation from group content MMO", that group content serves a purpose, and needs to be left alone. If I'd had a vote on giving other stuff away for free, I'd likely vote no. I'm not going to be salty about it being done, though, and I'm not going to feel like my experience is lessened by someone getting something for free, or even just easier.

So, to be clear here, someone turns off their notifications, and then complains about not being notified, and we're supposed to what, say "Well, they need to have a different way to notify you, since you turned notifications off"??? What's to stop them from turning those notification widgets off too, thus exacerbating their issue? How long until it's "A GM needs to log in and tell me that I have rewards to claim"?

Just out of curiosity, how does how someone else got something diminish what you did? Were your rewards not adequate for what you were doing? Were you left unsatisfied by what you "accomplished"? Before you start with the finger pointing about "new player that wants things the easy way" or whatever, I'm not new, and, frankly, I couldn't care less about how easy, or hard, gear that I don't need for what I do in game is to get. I'm just wondering if it somehow tarnishes your "badge of honor" or something that someone might do something in less time than you did, and curious also, how did you feel about people that used the exact same method you did, but accomplished it faster? Were they "basement dwelling no lifes" or something? Just curious.

Yes, because in game rewards you have to actually play the game to get is soooooo predatory... Look out folks, next thing you know, mobs are going to start dropping things you can vendor...

But there is. Go in game right now, mount up, and fly around. Congratulations, you've got something that some players don't have. That's the reward for getting this way, after all, and it's all anyone else got when they got it before you did.

What, you mean this is a serious thread? I read the title, and the opening post, figured it was a joke, and added my own. 🤷‍♂️

Sadly, ANet can get a good reading of the community's reactions w/out posting a thing. All they have to do is read the forums. They all don't even have to do it, a couple of people here and there will give them all the background they need about how things are being received. You see, everyone that posts an idea about how the game should work believes that that idea is the best thing since sliced bread, even when it's objectively the worst idea ever. But if it's not implemented, or acknowledged as such by a dev, they'll be raving about how the devs never listen. Then, no matter how much communication we're getting, it's going to be "We're not getting any communication" again. We've got people here that are upset that they don't get a detailed breakdown of what happens when they submit a bot report, for example. Why would they get that?

We have equipment/build slots? 😛 I think I have the default that comes with a character, and I haven't felt the need for even an extra one, let alone "infinity".

Which customers? The ones that want all the group content modified to be solo-able? The ones that believe that the tutorials need to run to level 80? Maybe the ones that think they should drop the cosmetic development for WvW/PvP, even though those are completely different teams? Maybe they should listen to the crowd that wants all the mounts w/out buying the expansions? What happens when they cater to one of those, or the myriad of other things that have been asked for on these forums, and all of the players that oppose that revolt? Seriously, whether you intended it or not, I came away from this post with the belief that you think there's a magical, one size fits all solution, and that's just not the case. The communication could be "No, we're not doing that". What's going to happen with those customers you're referring to? Are they going to say "Well, at least they told us we didn't have anything coming"? Or are they going to rage quit, or worse? Sometimes, it's not arrogance, it's pragmatism.

Sure. On the other hand, I don't expect that to do much for the general vibe. As I indicated earlier, if they respond to something in the negative, it's going to be "they're not listening". I also don't know what an "acceptable" level of communication would be? I have read posts by people that believe that because they've never been responded to, the devs are ignoring them. Maybe some general "X game mode isn't as active as Y game mode, so we're focusing on Y", or "We're patching B because Z". It's going to stir up some hornets, but then when we get the "they're not communicating" threads that we'll still get, we can point to something to say "What are you expecting them to do, write you a letter?". 🤣

No, I'm not generalizing. If the fact that just one interaction can make someone want to stay away from a forum is too much for you, I don't know what to tell you. It not only can happen, but it has happened. I cited an example of it above. Then there's this strawman of "trying to shut down communication". Go ahead, show me where I said that. I did say that I understand why they might be "gun shy" about posting, but nowhere have I ever said they shouldn't be communicating. That is a fiction that you made up so you could have something to argue against. So, do you want to discuss what I've actually said, or are you going to send me a copy of the screenplay you've written, so that I know what's in the script for what I was supposed to have said?

I actually have. I moderated the Rappelz forums for about 5 years. Go ahead, explain to me how well that works out. It doesn't. Yes, we have plenty of people that take it in stride. They're not the problem, and trying to say "but that's a fringe element", or similar, doesn't carry a lot of weight. Let's remember, the BioWare incident I outlined above happened as a direct result of communication. It's exactly because of the extremes that devs become "gun shy" about posting. If this were a thing that happened once in the 18 years and change that I've been on gaming forums, then yeah? But I've actually had someone call me on the phone about forum moderation. They declined my invitation to come visit in person, and declined to give me their address, so I could come visit them, but this (self kitten) can get real, fast. It doesn't have to be the majority of interactions.

When it gets that bad, the issues aren't on the game side, but firmly in the poster's domain, and the people most qualified to deal with it are doctors, not community managers for a game forum. The problem with communication from the dev side is, of course, that if it doesn't agree, or goes against what a specific poster/group of posters are looking for it's "they don't listen". Even if it's more of a case of "they listened and said no". I mean, we have people here that get upset that they don't get a detailed report of what happened with a suspected bot account, imagine how upset they're going to be when they suggest something, and a dev says they're not going to do it. More often than not, in today's climate, it's better to say nothing, than to open yourself up to whatever may happen.

Ask, and ye shall receive. 🤣

There's a distinct difference between "I'm unhappy" and "If you do/don't do that, we'll kill you". There's one linked example in this thread, and then there's the BioWare employee that had to delete all of her social media because she said that she'd rather play a story focused game, than one focused on combat. Note that she never said they were making that story game, just that she'd prefer to play it, and all those "emotionally attached" players went on a tirade. In short, in means that when some players overreact, there are other issues that need to be addressed, and it isn't a game dev's job to deal with that. So, I understand why they don't get overly involved in forum discussions. This phenomenon is widespread throughout the industry, and isn't even limited to MMOs. I have seen this exact thread premise in every MMO I've ever played, and in at least half of the SP games that have/had private forums. Do you remember the old BSN, the BioWare Social Network? I wonder, why did they have to close it down? As someone that was active over there when it was up, I can speculate: There was an awful lot of anti-social behavior over there.

It's odd that you feel that way. When I first started playing Aion, in the 2nd closed beta, I used map chat a lot when I wasn't sure what I was supposed to be doing. I did the same in Rappelz, and swtor, and Neverwinter, and ESO, and even here. When I'm not in a guild or legion, and I need help, map chat is the first thing I think of, because it's pretty much universal, most MMOs have a map chat where one can seek assistance. It's pretty much why it's there.