Teamkiller.4315

No? Forget? You expected me to take on the burden of proof. Nah, you made the claim. There's a name for something "irrelevant". You could just call it 'irrelevant', or you could call it a red herring. It is not however, a non-sequitur. Again, you have demonstrated that you don't know the definitions of the logical fallacies you're accusing people of. I read the thread, Team, he got ya. I mean it’s literally the definition and above post showed that. You also said that you just have these arguments out of spite. I see, it's a common mistake to make. Non-sequitur and red herring are not the same thing. He is thinking of a red herring when he says it's simply "irrelevant", and he is thinking of a strawman when he thinks i'm not reading his posts. What they aren't is a non-sequitur. That is when you draw a conclusion from a premise that "doesn't follow" (literal definition), i.e. just doesn't make sense. I mean this is what this thread has come down to now and I’m guilty for it as well. It’s not a discussion regarding raids anymore. It’s a forum post about arguments and picking crap apart that at the end of the day, mean nothing.You're right about that and I share the blame, but i would like to point out the irony that it was Ohoni that started this whole accusing people of logical fallacies trend. And he wasn't even doing it correctly.

No? Forget? You expected me to take on the burden of proof. Nah, you made the claim. There's a name for something "irrelevant". You could just call it 'irrelevant', or you could call it a red herring. It is not however, a non-sequitur. Again, you have demonstrated that you don't know the definitions of the logical fallacies you're accusing people of. I read the thread, Team, he got ya. I mean it’s literally the definition and above post showed that. You also said that you just have these arguments out of spite.I see, it's a common mistake to make. Non-sequitur and red herring are not the same thing. He is thinking of a red herring when he says it's simply "irrelevant", and he is thinking of a strawman when he thinks i'm not reading his posts. What they aren't is a non-sequitur. That is when you draw a conclusion from a premise that "doesn't follow" (literal definition), i.e. just doesn't make sense.

No? Forget? You expected me to take on the burden of proof. Nah, you made the claim. There's a name for something "irrelevant". You could just call it 'irrelevant', or you could call it a red herring. It is not however, a non-sequitur. Again, you have demonstrated that you don't know the definitions of the logical fallacies you're accusing people of.

You made a claim and then expected to not have to prove it. How the heck is mentioning burden of proof a non-sequitur? Even if it was irrelevant, how the heck would it be a non-sequitur? Do you know what non-sequitur means?

Ohoni you have demonstrated that you don't actually know what a non-sequiter is. The logical fallacy you are thinking of now is a strawman, it's not the same thing, and I didn't commit either.

Yes, exactly! The players who enjoy that 95% of the game would also enjoy raids that feel the same way, and the devs adding that option to the game would make them much happier. Glad you're finally coming around. Oh, Ohoni. Most of us, even if we think an easy mode is not necessary, have not completely opposed to it. However, the real problem is that you want an easy mode PLUS normal mode rewards. You do not just want the experience and the casual alternative. The rewards are part of the experience. It's not an alternative if it doesbn't include the rewards. As I've noted repeatedly, I would be fine with having less quantity of reward for easy mode, so that normal mode will remain faster and more efficient, I just see no reason whatsoever why easy mode should not have a reasonable path toward those rewards. It's such a weird thing to get hung up on. Yes, exactly! The players who enjoy that 95% of the game would also enjoy raids that feel the same way, and the devs adding that option to the game would make them much happier. Glad you're finally coming around. Partly quoting and effectively changing the meaning of a passage is a big no no, you should know better. It was just so much more optimistic. The second part made me sad. Such hate. So what happened to your taunting? "Bring it." I seem to recall you said? You didn't bring anything. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Ah i see you still don't understand how burden of proof works. But I do know how a non-sequitur works, so I see what you did there. I would've hoped you'd have learned by now that flailing in the dark accusing people of random logical fallacies you don't actually know isn't a good idea. I suppose I was wrong

So what happened to your taunting? "Bring it." I seem to recall you said? You didn't bring anything. ¯_(ツ)_/¯Ah i see you still don't understand how burden of proof works.

So what happened to your taunting? "Bring it." I seem to recall you said?

At this point, it is partially out of spite. Hard to say exactly how much, wouldn't say over 50% though. I have no idea how you interpreted my "you're exaggerating" message as "raiders are better than non-raiders".

Well you see you claimed that there was no reason. What you were probably planning for is me giving a reason why raiders deserve exclusive rewards and you arguing against it and both of us descending back into madness where you try to beat people with your verbosity (doesn't work btw). But what's actually going to probably happen is I'm going to stick that phrase you wrote "There is NO REASON why they [raiders] should have exclusive access to ANYTHING." to you and force you to defend it and my prediction is you will eventually stop responding after evading it for a while.

Well yes, that was never a point in dispute. What was in dispute was whether that actually mattered. It's impossible to argue as to whether or not it's raining outside, either it is or it isn't. What is worth considering is how much it matters whether it is raining or not. Sure, you can continue to pretend like you weren't offended by someone else describing your own actions and just had to respond for the sake of responding. So it's not that there is no good reason or no reasonable reason, but rather there is no reason that people who raid should get exclusive rewards? Think carefully about that statement.

Well there you go, thanks for confirming what I said. I don't see why you're taking this as a challenge, big guy. You made an exceptionally exaggerated statement and I was wondering legitimately if you wanted to tone it down. If not that's fine, just remember you said "There is no reason why they [raiders] should have exclusive access to anything."

The difference being: the game was under development back then. But this is an MMO. It is always under development. I just think that random spot polling would do a bgood job of providing them strong feedback. You pointed to places where they made changes to the game in response to feedback, but even in those cases they sometimes made changes in a poor direction, because they didn't get an accurate measurement of what the community wanted, all they seemed to get was "angry" and "not this!" And that only seems "absurd" to people that are used to getting their own way and feel entitled to having unique benefits just for playing the game in the way they happen to enjoy. Making the skins available via easy mode is actually the most reasonable outcome. Everyone has stuff in the game they either want, but don't feel like doing the work required and choose not to get it and focus elsewhere, or grit their teeth and worked through it. It's not just nonraider and legendary armor in that situation. Sure. But is that a good thing? Does anyone benefit by having things that they want, but that the method of acquiring it would not make them happy? This is a game, if you aren't having fun them something has gone dreadfully wrong. There is no virtue in people "doing what they need to do, even if they don't enjoy it," because the only thing anyone needs to do is enjoy themselves. If players are presented with only the options "do a thing that you don't enjoy" or "never get that thing you wanted," then that's a choice without any good options. Nobody benefits from that choice. I am opposed to any situation where that option is forced. I believe that if any player enjoys most of how the game works, then all aspects of the game should be available in a form that they would enjoy. The only people who shouldn't be able to find a path to their goals that suits their playstyle would be players who don't enjoy the game at all, in which case, why would they even be here? I think at this point part of the reason why I oppose you, a significant part actually, is due to how incredibly aggravating your arguments are and seeing you unsatisfied and not obtaining envoy armor is satisfying to me. I think a significant portion of the people in this thread probably share my sentiment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well Nah you have straight up said on multiple occasions you won't compromise on those two points. Unless you'd like to tell me you've changed your mind. Not going to respond to this point any more than this due to extreme pedantry. Pretty strong statement there man. You sure you don't want to tone it down a little? It'll be impossible to defend that.

So what? Don't you have enough other junk like Unique Weapon, Armor and Back skins, along with titles, miniatures and whatever (not sure all the unique things that Raids offer, TBH) to placate your need for things to display and flaunt your accomplishments? I mean really.. how much do you need? If the answer is Everything.. then that is why Anet made a mistake going in this direction to start with. Actually i have no legendaries at all, my best skin is eidolan (shield), and my most worn titles by far are dungeon master and champion paragon. Ok.. so why the issue? I mean.. legit. I do not get this.. if the people that are doing raids are not parading out all the bells and whistles banging their Raid Exclusive Drum as it were, saying look at me and what I can do . why should they care if someone like @Ohoni.6057 can get a skin from a really ugly set of armor, that they also would not wear? For a similar reason that if you were in a tournament of some kind that you would want first place to get a better rewards than second place. Well I'm actually not so sure about you specifically now. From what he's said over the past few pages, I gather that he got burned in wow raiding and came to gw2 to get away from it, and now feels betrayed over the fact that anet introduced raids, and wants them gone asap.But that makes no sense considering wow has easy mode raids