Axelwarrior.9084

So I'm curious, were most of the changes left untouched because the community seemed to support them? Or is it that community feedback didn't end up contributing much at all, despite everyone's effort?Personally, I despise this approach of nerfing around the problem - and the devs seem to be aware that they're doing it. Nerfing traits and skills that impact multiple builds and not just the problematic one just leads to more balance issues. I get that the current phase is just patching up and laying the groundwork for bigger balance updates (in which case, I don't get why bunker firebrand got buffed instead of nerfed, but okay). I just hope that this will not be a common strategy in the future, like what the old balance team seemed to default to. Because what we just got was just a hotfix patch to address some of the outlying strangeness across some of the classes. It says it right in the update notes, at the top, that this is just a small thing, the big balance patch is still coming. As for the nerfing approach, the whole of the game needs a good sweep with damage/healing nerfs across the board, to base damage/healing coefficients and such, if they are intending to keep the current accessibility to boons in the game. Functionality changes would also be welcome but I'd rather see the power creep handled, but we'll see how that goes.I'm confused as to what your "because..." tangent is supposed to be an answer to. I'd already acknowledged the fact that this is a small update in my own post, so did you just skim past that part, or what? And, again, if you'd read more carefully, I don't have a problem with nerfing - I have a problem with nerfing the wrong things. ANet keeps nerfing meta builds' secondary components, rather than the cornerstone of each build (aka what makes that specific build the best). That has the result of nerfing all builds that would use those components, which is not good for class diversity. For example, when you nerf Mesmer Staff repeatedly, it's not just going to nerf the problematic CI Mirage - it sets back all possible Mesmer builds that use a Staff. And it's annoying, because the cornerstone of that build is clearly Infinite Horizon, now that Chaotic Interruption has been nerfed. So why not just address that, instead of nerfing all Staff builds?Once more, I am aware this is a preliminary pass, so there's still he possibility that they'll go over everything properly in the big update. So the reason I'm starting this discussion is to raise awareness and voice my concerns for this problem, just in case.

At the very least, make it ignore/remove stability for the user - they did it for Headbutt, so I don't see why not. It makes sense for the skill's one drawback to be, y'know, an actual drawback. At least gives the enemy some time to react and stunbreak before the engi has recovered.

...And the only thing that has changed from the first draft is those two lines: So I'm curious, were most of the changes left untouched because the community seemed to support them? Or is it that community feedback didn't end up contributing much at all, despite everyone's effort?Personally, I despise this approach of nerfing around the problem - and the devs seem to be aware that they're doing it. Nerfing traits and skills that impact multiple builds and not just the problematic one just leads to more balance issues. I get that the current phase is just patching up and laying the groundwork for bigger balance updates (in which case, I don't get why bunker firebrand got buffed instead of nerfed, but okay). I just hope that this will not be a common strategy in the future, like what the old balance team seemed to default to.

A bit late, but here's my 2 cents about these changes: Sigil of Agility: Good riddance. Global and easy access to quickness is unhealthy for the game, messing with the opponent's ability to properly react to your key abilities. Condi Thief: Great changes, and I agree with the thought process behind them. Condi Daredevil is a low-risk build with limited counterplay - it should not have high burst on top of that. Holosmith: Speaking of Quickness, this is the worst offender. A build with such decisive finishers and high-damage CC skills should not have such a high quickness uptime. As for the Elixir U stability - just remove it if you're gonna keep the Quickness on it. It will still be a good skill, and if the Holo really feels like they're lacking stability, they can run Elixir B or Elixir X. Honestly, Holosmith is just a badly designed class IMO, but that's not something that can be fixed with a minor balance update. Condi Mirage: All around bad changes, in my opinion. They affect more builds than just the problematic Condi Mirage. The more you try to nerf around the problem, the more new problems you create. To me, the solution to Mirage is quite simple - disable Mirage Cloak while CC'd, just like a normal dodge. Would make Elusive Mind more appealing while encouraging counterplay and build diversity (if you can't take Infinite Horizon, you'll be forced into a condi shatter build, which is much healthier imo). I doubt this is a ground-breaking idea, so I'm curious why you're not doing that. Someone might enlighten me. Rampage: Just... why? Why the overnerfing mania? Yes, I hate Rampage as a player, whether I'm getting stomped by it or I use it to stomp my enemies. But if you practically remove it from the game with a huge nerf (like you have done with many things), then it will just feel bad for many people. I'm hoping that the intention is that the base damage will be decent without power scaling, but if not, then that's disappointing. Warrior's Cunning: An expected change. Might be a bit too much, though. Staff Thief: Was this really a problem? I doubt it. Again, the mistake of nerfing more builds than intended. Quick Pockets is a fine trait out of Staff Thief context, so leave it as is. I really, really doubt Staff Thief deserves nerfs at this stage of the process anyway, especially when you compare it to the much more popular Condi Thief. If you must proceed with the changes, I believe the Staff Master nerf will be enough.

So yeah, as expected, there was no point to this rework. Nerfing prestacking? Really? That was a problem? PvP burst Chrono? Really? I've seen maybe one person besides me use that combo in-game (I'm sure there were others, but it was probably negligible amount). It was never even an impactful build for sPvP. Not to mention that the core PU version of shatter Mesmer is probably better, or at least more practical.Honestly, I'm aware of ANet's tendency to ignore their mistakes when it comes to balance (or anything, really). But I'm hoping the new balance team has better intentions and, judging from the recent potential changes thread, are more keen on listening to player feedback. So I'm putting this out there in case it's been forgotten that we're unhappy about it. Speaking of the new balance team, anyone knows how the functionality updates will be handled in the future? The game modes have been split between different teams, but who gets to decide how to change skill functionality, since it needs to be the same over all game modes?

Can we start a petition or something to bring it back? Like, seriously. What was the point of the chrono shatter rework? Someone explain it to me, because all it's done for the game in my experience is making it unfun to use your class mechanic as a Chrono.Are there people that actually supported/enjoyed this change? Because all I've been hearing is complaints. Justifiably. At the very least, revert the CS change. Being unable to use it out of combat is hurtful. All it did was remove fun combos that didn't hurt the game one bit.Besides, what's with the tendency of overnerfing things, ANet? Whenever a skill/trait/class/whatever stands out as too strong, you bash it so hard with the nerf hammer that it gets pummeled into non-existence. What does the data say about Scourge's playrate/performance in PvP after the Sand Shade nerf? I don't have access to it, but the numbers can't be good. Shape up, please. Yes, balancing is hard, but some changes are so obviously wrong that it's mind-boggling how they got green-lit.Let me know if you think I'm wrong. I look forward to discussion.