MethaneGas.8357

How does condi allow you to be more tanky? You only get Vitality with Carrion....

Agreed! ?Quite refreshing indeed and the scale + deathmatch style is a good change of pace from conquest.

Hello all, I can't personally test at the moment, but I'm 90% sure it works this way. Signets of Suffering makes you gain all passive effects of signets in shroud regardless of whether the signet is on cooldown or not. This means that by taking the signet heal and Signet of Undeath, with Signets of Suffering, that single trait makes you gain health while in shroud each time you get hit, and also makes you gain shroud every few secs. Permanently. With just one trait. Isn't this the biggest source of sustain at the moment?

If they HAD to nerf something, I think all they need to do is nerf Death Magic. It's a proper defensive traitline with good defense against power and condi damage. Necros taking signets (which give huge sustain) would have pretty weak cleanse if they didn't have it from Death Magic, so if shrouded removal takes a hit, this would make signet necros weaker to condis. Or you can lower the toughness gained from carapace, along with potentially lowering the protection output. Lower protection output is also an indirect nerf to Dark Defiance, so with lower protection, the necro would be weaker to both condi and power. And, as you said, lowering the life-force generation from certain sources could be an option. Like Unholy Martyr. Make it give less lifeforce? I honestly think that just a wee shave across a few traits is all that is needed. Together, it would add up without destroying each individual trait. Last point: Signets of Suffering gives you the passive effects of signets in shroud even while your signets are on a cooldown, if I'm not mistaken. So you can use the heal signet right before going into shroud and you get the passive back. Camp shroud and the heal skill is recharged by the time you exit shroud. Rinse and repeat. This is probably a bug and it's amazing, but borderline broken. Maybe all they need to do is nerf this trait, because essentially, you permanently have Signet of Undeath passive while in shroud, and this makes you permanently gain life force in shroud. You also permanently gain health when hit in shroud cuz of the passive from the heal. But.... the problem is pairing a Necro with a FB in a 2v2 because the FB spits out protection and cleanse so even if those things are nerfed, the problem remains. Maybe if FB is nerfed, necros would be indirectly nerfed. Along with a few tweaks and voila, happiness and rainbows all around. But, balancing around 2v2s is not smart.

Doesn't it apply cripple - > corruptor's fervor - > carapace? :# Edit: wait.... It doesn't cause cripple anymore?! :o :o :o :open_mouth: Edit 2: omfg you're right............ Edit 3: hyperventilating

A good way to generate carapace is using Spectral Walk, and going into shroud with Shourded Removal. You'll cleanse a million condis (such that you can tank condi mesmers, or anything really). On top of that, you'll get carapace from Plague Sending in Curses... So right there is lots of potential to stack even you in a 1v1 if they have at least some condis. Can also get a few from crits - > bleeds from Barbed Precision (not as good with Carrion or the dumb new life steal locust swarm... but still). And 3 stacks from Weakening Shroud with weakness, bleed, 1 corrupt.... It works well when fighting groups and is harder in 1v1s but there's still potential there.

May have been Moa?

I would be interested in seeing your gameplay... PM me if you have footage.

If you build heavy into cleanse then you're damage isn't enough to kill the tanky condi builds. Those tanky condi builds don't have to sacrifice their damage for survivability. They can both be offensive and defensive at the same time where with power you have to open yourself up to counter pressure in order to pressure someone. I wish this was true.

Necro in general is bad against burst, but I'd say that Dark Defiance (protection on CC) can be pretty decent against burst, because a lot of burst relies on CC, so at least you have protection when that happens. Blood magic is mainly defensive and "sustainy" and when you think about it, isn't that much different from taking Death Magic, except Death Magic makes you even more tanky against both power and condi. What you could also try and do when you see Mesmers is.... when they stealth, try and go into shroud as soon as you can (if you have a decent amount of life force). They will almost certainly try and burst you when they stealth, but if you have shroud, they can't do that as well and you should survive their burst. From that point, count your blessings and see how it goes. Or you could try and run the other direction as fast as you can when they stealth, or hide behind line of sight. In any case, I would try and go into shroud just as another layer of protection. Two more things.... they usually do a lot of damage when they use two of their greatsword skills - Mirror Blade (animation: they lift their hands and throw a sword) and Phantasmal Berserker (animation: they spin around). Dodge immediately if you see them use any of these two. Just as an example, in this video you can see sort of what the skills look like: It's skill #2, and skill #4. When you see these, try and dodgeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :P . They are usually followed up with more damage.

I actually think there's too much cleanse...

Yes - Death Magic with core Necro is quite strong. I'm not sure what the craze about Blood Magic is tbh. What would you like to know about it?

Also you could try the new Death Magic, as it makes you more tanky overall. If you go Reaper with GS over staff, you could even sacrifice Soul Reaping for Death Magic.

Aaaaaaand once again, Wurm and Spectral Walk are meta =) who woulda thought? As a Necro, you'll generally be focused like crazy as soon as you show your face. Sometimes, especially against good players, ALL you'll be doing is kiting and surviving the whole 10+ minutes of a match. It just comes with the package of playing a Necro. A lot of people don't like that because it's not exactly as relaxing as other playstyles and can be frustrating at times, but that's just the name of the game. I'd say that at least 80-90% of players don't like using Spectral Walk and Wurm because it's not straightforward to use and requires planning. On top of that, Wurm takes a long time to get used to when you are just starting to use it because there are many spots that don't work with it. At the same time, there's spots on each map that almost certainly always work too - it's just a matter of figuring out which ones work and which ones don't. If you don't enjoy that kind of playstyle, then I would say that your best bet is probably to go with Reaper because I think Reaper can survive a bit better without those 2 utilties because of stability and mobility. I haven't played Reaper in a long time, but what you could try is removing either Wurm or Spectral Walk, and adding in something like Spectral Armour or Spectral Wall. Both of those skills can make you more tanky and can build a nice amount of lifeforce. Also, Runes of Speed seem to work really well on Reaper. I've seen some Reapers -cough- Gamble -cough- that use Runes of Speed and it gives you crazy mobility so you're really hard to catch. So using something like Spectral Walk, Corrupt Boon and Spectral Armour could potentially work? Alternatively, you could try using Runes of Speed on core Necro as well, as that makes you harder to catch. Again, you could try Spectral Walk, Corrupt Boon and Spectral Armour/Wall and see if that works out. I have no idea, as I have never not used Wurm of Spectral Walk in a build.... You probably already know this, but use any of the spectral skills before going into shroud cuz it makes you tanky - you gain life force even when in shroud. Or use Locust Swarm before going in - does the same thing. Other than that, all you can do is pray.

make the Necromancer have as much life and shields as the elementalist and the balance will be successful confused Necro noises

Hey Gamble :> Nice video Risen. Nice to see Reapers making a bit of a comeback :)

Yeah I still see a scourge in pretty much every match and sometimes 2 and they still very strong. They now have to focus like all aoe classes do, cast aoe at range or close...That’s the issue scourge players want local and range at same time, they now can even bomb 10 targets... Good scourge players will adapt faster. There's nothing to adapt to, really, when every option is kitten. Sure, you can barnacle on top of a Firebrand and go ham in melee, but as soon as you're alone, the spec becomes clunky, annoying, restrictive and kinda weak... Not the spec necessarily, the build. That build is supposed to be that way. The specific Scourge build in question is meant to be a damage carry. If you give it high defenses as well, then it becomes a damage carry duelist. I don't think it should be that way, if it's focusing on doing damage, then it shouldn't get to also survive focus fire and have great mobility. That's the current issue with the game: too many builds have this. It's part of the big powercreep issue. If we can work to get rid of this, then trust me, things will start to see better direction and the game will be much more enjoyable.The reason why I said 'specialization' and not 'build' is because the nerf affects ALL Scourge builds, not just Curses Scourge. The survivalbility of every Scourge build is lower now, not matter what you run.

Still seems like a close game. Did well despite everything...

Was this for spvp or WVW? It was sPvP. Have not tried how it is in WvW so no ideas there.

Yeah I still see a scourge in pretty much every match and sometimes 2 and they still very strong. They now have to focus like all aoe classes do, cast aoe at range or close...That’s the issue scourge players want local and range at same time, they now can even bomb 10 targets... Good scourge players will adapt faster.There's nothing to adapt to, really, when every option is kitten. Sure, you can barnacle on top of a Firebrand and go ham in melee, but as soon as you're alone, the spec becomes clunky, annoying, restrictive and kinda weak...

Have you guys tried Death Magic with core condi Necro? Seems pretty legit for soloQ... I did Carrion and Scavanger Runes (tentative. Can't decide between Scavanger Runes with sigils for cover condis like Exposure and Doom, or Aristocracy Runes with Battle and Courage sigils.... The Might + Carrion + Deadly Strength can be pretty crazy).... Anyway... you're tanky as hell with vitality, toughness, condi clears, protection, and a buttload of power on top of the condi damage. I could go toe to toe with condi mirages, condi thieves and weavers, which was a huge gamble before this. I need to give it a bit more of a proper test, but I got a bad feeling Death Magic will get a nerf :( either Carapace itself, or Corrupter's Fervor. Bad, bad feeling ?

Can move out of range. It's easy since we've got great mobility and stability access.

Sure, people in general tend to cry wolf about changes that don't mean much and it can be hard to distinguish what's a legitimate problem and what isn't, but this change will objectively destroy Scourge, and that's not coming from just the Necro community. I 100% agree with overcoming the weaknesses of a class and adapting, but with the Scourge change, there will be nothing to adapt to. Any option you have remaining will be bad or extremely sub-optimal. I don't really care too much if Scourge gets deleted, I enjoy core Necro far more, but it's just that the way Scourge was nerfed was annoying, clunky and un-fun. While other classes remain strong, Necro gets the nerf bat. To that end, I do agree that other PoF elite specs ALL need to get the nerf bat to equalize the playing field not just with Necro, but other specs as well.

I wish people who say things like this actually played Scourge in PvP, and actually understood how bad this change is for the elite Spec. Having a choice =/= a good thing. What are the choices?Option A: DPS from range with your shade but have 0 defenses and get instakilled by a Thief, Rev, Holo, or Mesmer, or anything else if they decide to gank you (and they will - you're a Necro, and now, you're a Necro with 0 defenses)..... Counter argument: "place two shades! One on top of you, one at range." -------- This isn't an option if you're in PvP, you'll be dead by staying around your little shade instead of kiting away. Not only that, but what kind of clunky shit is that?End result: dead. Option B: Don't use shades so that you get to keep your defenses (F-skills), but be forced into melee to deal DPS, in which case you get wrecked because you're going melee as a Necro and if you stay at range, you'll have no DPS.Counter argument: Then don't go melee, just sit at range without using your profession mechanic and use your weapon skills and utilizies instead. -----No explanation needed of how bad this argument is.End result: dead / dead-weight. The choices you have are both bad. Choosing between bad option A or bad option B doesn't make things any better when both choices are kitten. And trust me, there is no good way around this, no silver lining - I would have thought of it already :s

This is the same sentiment some people have had on map chat in the Heart of the Mists, and it usually comes from people who don't understand just how much this will nerf Scourges, and how their removal will change things. Why does it matter though? Well... for one, no one asked for this, and the way it was done is just mindblowingly dumb when there's a million other ways they could have went about nerfing Scourge to still make it viable. I think we can all unanimously agree that this patch will destroy Scourge, but unfortunately I'm thinking that was precisely their goal - delete Scourge to shake things up. In the end, will it be a good thing for PvP? It might..... or it might not :#