Hey Guys! First post here so I apologize for any etiquette issues, but I needed to address some information in the community and ask for clarification if I am in fact incorrect.
So I really wanted to know the hard facts about Eternal Ice (EI). I have accumulated around 8k EI pretty quickly, and have been told to convert it to Volatile Magic (VM). It didn't feel worth it after looking at the karma needed, and how hard it is to really grind karma, so I thought I would do some math and spreadsheeting. A little bit of background, I used to be a bit of a lab geek so if I am around I would love to answer questions about my methods and anything unclear. Really just trying to find some answers. TL:DR will be in the Conclusion so if you want the answer to what EI is actually worth in modern times through Season 4 conversions, skip to there. I will be breaking down my math into steps, and I will be pasting my work here basically in reverse.
So my goal was to discover the price of EI. This cannot be exactly done as there is also a huge karma cost involved BUT I can find out how much gold you get per exchange, how much EI is valued in an abundance of karma, and how much karma is valued in an abundance of EI. I would love to see some similar work done on values of karma in other locations of the game so it can be known whether this is a good karma exchange or not. A project for a future day perhaps. If you understand the values of the conversion from EI to Gold again feel free to skip to the last table, this is assuming we are using Volatile Magic (VM) to purchase containers.
The first thing I needed to find out (Working all the way from the back end) is what the best way to convert Volatile Magic to Gold is. Looking at the shipments available, I was able to calculate which one netted the most gold. Best not to forget that each shipment is 250 VM and 1 Gold each.
Trophy Shipment - 10/10/2021
Price per
Gold
1
Volatile
250
Lowest Sell Order
Unit p/Box
Copper p/Unit
Copper p/Box
VPotBlood
5.33
121
644.93
PotVSac
5.163
25
129.075
LScale
5.017
74
371.258
ITotem
5.014
83
416.162
LFang
4.981
28
139.468
LBone
4.935
34
167.79
LClaw
4.906
27
132.462
PIDust
4.891
74
361.934
VClaw
1.043
1278
1332.954
PCDust
1.029
1232
1267.728
VFang
1.008
1768
1782.144
AScale
1.004
2192
2200.768
VPowBlood
1.003
2825
2833.475
PowVSac
0.997
1542
1537.374
ETotem
0.984
2433
2394.072
ABone
0.982
1845
1811.79
EKormir
0.207
2
0.414
CongealedP
0.194
2
0.388
Sum (C)
17524.186
Sum (S)
175.24186
Sum (G)
1.7524186
Net Gold Gain
0.7524186
250 VM Nets 0.75 G
So from Trophy Shipments we see we gain 0.75 gold on average per box.
Leather Shipment - 10/10/2021
Price Per
Gold
1
Volatile
250
Lowest Sell Order
Unit p/Box
Copper p/Unit
Copper p/Box
ThickLS
59.944
76
4555.744
RuggedLS
8.34
400
3336
CLS
8.298
94
780.012
HLS
7.917
1049
8304.933
ThinLS
7.691
100
769.1
RawLS
7.634
25
190.85
Sum (C)
17936.639
Sum (S)
179.36639
Sum (G)
1.7936639
Net
0.7936639
250 VM Nets 0.79 G
We see a better net from Leather Shipments, about 0.79 gold. This is over 1416 container openings, taken from the wiki database.
Wood Shipment - 10/10/2021
Price Per
Gold
1
Volatile
250
Lowest Sell Order
Unit p/Box
Copper p/Unit
Copper p/Box
EWLog
59.86
79
4728.94
AWLog
8.339
146
1217.494
SeasonedWLog
8.252
66
544.632
SoftWLog
7.902
29
229.158
HWLog
7.867
61
479.887
GWLog
7.605
9
68.445
Sum (C)
7268.556
Sum (S)
72.68556
Sum (G)
0.7268556
Net
-0.2731444
Loss of Money
Just not worth it, 27 silver loss before considering you spend VM on this.
Cloth Shipment - 10/10/2021
Price Per
Gold
1
Volatile
250
Lowest Sell Order
Unit p/Box
Copper p/Unit
Copper p/Box
SScrap
58.577
30
1757.31
LScrap
8.448
114
963.072
JScrap
8.219
96
789.024
WScrap
8.148
297
2419.956
GScrap
8.025
109
874.725
CScrap
7.584
45
341.28
Sum (C)
7145.367
Sum (S)
71.45367
Sum (G)
0.7145367
Net Gain
-0.2854633
Loss of Money
Another loss of money, 28 silver lost.
Metal Shipment - 10/10/2021
Price Per
Gold
1
Volatile
250
Lowest Sell Order
Unit p/Box
Copper p/Unit
Copper p/Box
MOre
59.092
59
3486.428
IOre
16.113
52
837.876
POre
8.425
70
589.75
OOre
8.219
120
986.28
COre
8.151
30
244.53
Sum (C)
6144.864
Sum (S)
61.44864
Sum (G)
0.6144864
Net Gain
-0.3855136
Loss of Money
Even worse, 38 silver lost.
Looking at this data, we learn what the most economic ways to spend your VM is. This is good for anyone looking to convert regardless of the EI calculations. DO NOT PURCHASE Metal, Cloth, and Wood Shipments. In the current economy you will very likely lose money. I do want to draw attention I have not calculated quartiles or standard deviations, so I will not be making assumptions on gambling odds. These are all simple averages so please consider this math in that light. Over very large numbers, these values are correct, but your average person will not see these exact numbers.
Anyways, we will be using Leather since it is currently the highest grossing conversion. I have a handful of data pools that are relevant and refer to each other. I will not be writing exactly what each formula is BUT I have left everything to simple step by step functions meaning it should be easy to follow along. Per purchase of 250VM you will receive 0.79 Gold on average.
So
We need to talk about the best way to earn VM. Through breaking S4 currencies we can get a spread of VM. Kralkatite will earn us 3-5 VM per unit, all others earn 15-25 VM per unite. I have not looked at data metrics for different S4 currencies dropping VM so I am assuming that on average Kralkatite drops 4 and the others will drop 20. Again, using averages so please take with a grain of salt.
Its common knowledge that we gain 25 Kralkatite per 75 EI and 2688 Karma, and 10 Mistborn Motes (MM) (Which I will refer to for the rest of our numbers) for the same 75 EI and 2688 Karma. I will show the math for both primarily because since Kralkatite has a variance of 3 as opposed to the variance of 10 for MM to see if have more consistent VM drops will be worth the difference in gains.
Exchanges
1
5
10
25
50
100
Eternal Ice
75
375
750
1875
3750
7500
Karma
2688
13440
26880
67200
134400
268800
Kralkatite
25
125
250
625
1250
2500
Volatile
100
500
1000
2,500
5000
10000
Mistborn Motes
10
50
100
250
500
1000
Volatile
200
1000
2000
5000
10000
20000
So we can already see that using MM (or any other currency) gets us on average twice as much VM. Even the best Kralkatite drops (25 Kralk * 5 VM = 125 VM) versus the worst of the other currencies (10 MM * 15 VM =150 VM), no matter what MM will be the better choice! No doubt on this one. Will we be converting the MM for the best returns.
Looking at our next step, we will be using our Shipment data from before. Per purchase of 250VM you will receive 0.79 Gold on average. Taking this to the next step, we will see how much each single VM nets us, showing the modern best value for the conversion using Leather Shipments.
Leather Box
1
VM
250
Net Gold
0.7936639
G/VM
0.0031746556
Simple step, but crucial to be clear. We are working in Gold pieces right now, but looking at the conversion each VM is worth a little more than 3 copper per.
Next we will see the exchange table again, but with this data applied to bottom of the table and removing Kralkatite since we know it is the objectively worse material to trade for.
Exchanges
1
5
10
25
50
100
Eternal Ice
75
375
750
1875
3750
7500
Karma
2688
13440
26880
67200
134400
268800
Other
10
50
100
250
500
1000
Volatile
200
1000
2000
5,000
10000
20000
Gold
0.63493112
3.1746556
6.3493112
15.873278
31.746556
63.493112
Karma/Gold
4233.530087
4233.530087
4233.530087
4233.530087
4233.530087
4233.530087
I have added another bit of information, but hang tight while I explain the quick leap and it will all be clear. Lets look at just gold and answer our question from the beginning of the post.
We can see that per exchange of 75EI and 2688 Karma we get 10 MM, which gets us 200 VM, which at a rate of 3.1746 copper per VM (Gotten from our Leather Shipment Data) shows that we get around 6300 copper (Using 2 significant figures since our modifier of 10 for the MM). So boom, we get about 63 silver per exchange. Down to the next level, we can calculate that we value Eternal Ice at 85 copper per single unit. This ignores the karma cost.
If you are satisfied by that answer, exchange away. My problem came when considering Karma. Over my full 9 years of playing, I have maintained around 1.5 mill karma. It gets spent and saved but overall it has been something to keep an eye on. You never know when you may need it and I have a ton of friends that are pretty empty on karma, so I wanted to see what our karma conversions are and how much money you are making for the karma you are spending. And since I have 8k EI, this lets me see how much I could make, how much karma I would spend.
So looking at the last line I added, we can see the Karma:Gold Ratio. Again looking at our exchange, for a single exchange we spend 75EI and 2688 Karma to gain 0.6349 gold. Our first number was in an abundance of karma. Assuming and abundance of EI, we find that we spend 4235 Karma per Gold that we earn.
In Conclusion
We can see that in my case, my 8k EI would cost me 268k Karma in order to net me 63 gold. Use these formulas to find your own costs as well. We also found out that to earn 1 gold we must spend 4235 Karma and 118 Eternal Ice. This information is yours now. Take it, run with it. Doubt it, embrace it, either way know we got here together. There is some imperfection in these numbers due to averages but this is what you will get overall. Getting Eternal Ice is not hard you get about 120 per strike mission (My own estimate) so about 1g worth per strike BUT this does not account for the karma loss. Here are some quick references to help you make your own decision.
- Cathedral of Glorious Victory Obsidian Shards are 2,100 Karma Each.
-Lost Orrian Jewlery Boxes are 4,550 Karma each, and have their own interesting metrics.
-Trade Caches from PoF are only 630 Karma + 50 Trade contracts (And could use their own value study).
Please take from this article the information provided. Form your own opinion based in fact, and if you don't like my methods I implore you to try this for yourself and respond with your data and facts associated with Eternal Ice.
My Hopes
I would really like to see an option that get Eternal Ice out of my bank slots without spending karma.
Because of the massive Karma drain, I would personally say it isn't worth it for me. There are other ways to earn money that is more time efficient and less karma draining like this Halloween event we are in (250bags an hour is super achievable, selling for around 9g). Even if I could hoard my EI I would be happy, just so long as it doesn't keep taking an entire bank tab of space.
My personal issue for EI is that it requires so much karma to turn it into money. 4K karma per gold is not something I want to spend just to expend my Eternal Ice. We saw before that each EI gets us 85 copper once its mixed with karma at the vendor, so vending EI for 40 copper or so seems like a fair exchange? I really would like to drop this EI without losing a quarter million karma just to turn it into 65 gold ON AVERAGE (might get more, might get less). Having a map currency that fills up so quickly that doesn't deposit to the wallet that requires karma to turn to cash just seems a little short sighted to me. It probably wasn't considered, but consider this a vote for an EI consumer or the shift to wallet EI so I can clear of this entire tab of my bank. I mentioned Trade Contracts and Trade Contracts because they are a good analogous case where its the same idea but there are more things to spend Trade Contracts on and les karma invested for a similar number of Trade Contracts.
This being said, Karma from empowerments in so many of the living world maps has really been a help. In Dragonfall these last 2 weeks I have made hundreds of thousands of karma from just doing events and killing mobs. So making Eternal Ice transference equitable may be something that can happen. I personally like to hoard my karma for the days I need tons of obsidian or new skins get released that need karma to build or vend recipes.
Thanks for coming this far, hopefully you guys enjoyed the evaluation. The math was a lot of averages but I think it puts my head in a much better space when it comes to Eternal Ice. Best of luck and good fortune to everyone! And if anyone has any other places where karma goes to cash and how efficient it is, please mention it! I would love to see if this is an efficient karma converter or an inefficient one. If I could compile a list of [1gp= 4235Karma + 113 EI] for a ton of currencies, it could make huge leaps to nailing down efficiency in a lot of this newer content.
Cheers!
Same here, Identical to the post above with the same little blue box and same timeframes. Tried repairing but no go
