Agrippa.1693

Disappointment is human nature. If the Necro gets completely redesigned, people will still be disappointed, maybe they'd be different people, maybe it's always the same (vocal) group ... who knows, I dont't think the devs can ever make everyone happy! I actually do think the Reaper is quite nice at the moment, except for one thing .... and that's damage! It just isn't enough at the moment (or ever was imho). So just tweaking numbers would indeed be fine imo. I agree we could do something with the selfish Quickness, but why the trade-off (as in make it worse in soloplay)??? Is that a Necro (player) thing? It deservers to be buffed! Why not just do that? Just buff it! Agreed! That's a good idea! Actually would be a nice idea, indeed, I would go for a crit chance increase of 1% per vuln stack, though! For you could still go with (some) Dragon's gear (i.e. for soloplay) ... not sure about that though, but it is indeed interesting to look at! Interesting! I'd love to see a change like that, but that's mostly because I like to see changes anyway. But I'm pretty sure there's going to be a lot of people who think otherwise. And I understand them as well: see the beginning of my post, there's nothing wrong with the Reaper atm, except its numbers!

Nice, first post and a really well written one! Keep up the good work 🙂

Imo there's actually a really easy way to decide if you want to do good damage AND have high survivability in OW: If you go for Parasitic Contagion go for full Viper. If you go for Lingering Curse go for Cele. The survivability from Parasitic Contagion is (still) great. But it shines the most the more cDPS you do. Viper is a great choice with that! Cele is indeed always a good choice in OW, but synergizes less with Parasitic Contagion than full Viper does. To (somewhat) make up for the lost damage, go for the damage trait: Lingering Curse instead.

These kind of posts create such a wrong view. It's actually the opposite. Necro has been the top 2 worst choice for I don't know how many years (8 at least) in PvE endgame content. It's only since the Torment change which was 11 may 2021 - so less than a year ago - that the Scourge earned a consistent spot in the top 5 in PvE endgame content, together with Renegade, Firebrand, Druid (still) and Berserker (still). Actually one of the worst classes at the moment (considered by quite a few) has been the most consistently asked-for class in PvE endgame since 2012: The Warrior. (And don't forget the dreaded Ele with it's absolute reign in the early years of the game). So if you consider time in the balancing equation, it's only fair that the Necro (and it's specs) takes the crown now, for at least a few more years to come!

Indeed, this is one of the most major problems. But out-of-the-box skills like Epi, but also things like Portal or even Invisibility are concepts that have the tendency to break stuff, and on the other hand are the staples (sometimes even USP's) of this game. They add that extra bit of spice! I can see why they are reluctant to change it too much.

@ROMANG.1903: It's actually the scourge which is suboptimal, btw: https://discretize.eu/guides/meta-explained It's obviously a good build but not optimal/meta. There are literally faster comps to clear fractals (in general). A scourge would hold these comps back! So, this whole topic is based on a factual wrong assumption!

^This! I mean, WvW will probably never really change, cause if boon tactics stay META, which it pretty much has been forever now, Necro will always be an important counter! Unless you take the boon-hate completely away from the Necro, the Necro will always be a valuable asset in your squad! There's obviously also the other way that you could look at this, and that's making boons less important ... but that seems to be a blasphemy view. PvP is interesting, because if you look at it from a time perspective, it might actually be the most balanced gamemode of GW2. Every class had it's time to shine at some stage. So did and does Necro, just like all the other classes. The biggest issue here imo is really how the Necro is looked at. Now imagine a real-life situation where there's a job opportunity/promotion in which you are highly interested in. And there's 2 more people that are interested in this opportunity: Person A & B. Now person A is someone who is incredibly motivated to get into this position, has real good credentials/skills/etc. and in general is just really good at doing his/her (upcoming) job, and will give his/her best to improve him/herself in order to get into that new position. Person B is not that good at his/her (upcoming) job (and knows this), but is really good at bringing you personally in a disadvantage. Person B also wants that job, and will do everything in his/her power to make it virtually impossible for you (and person A) to get that job, so he/she has a far better chance to be the winner in the end. Now, who would you hate the most??? Spoiler alert: Person B is the Necro (in PvP at least) 🙂 In PvE (or at least the endgame) the Necro (and it's specializations) have literally been the worst class that you could pick. And it held this infamous position (absolute bottom of the pack) for 90% of GW2's lifetime (since 2012). Only as of recently, Scourge is actually in a good spot now, mostly because of the torment and Soul Barbs change (May 11, 2021). So anyone who looks dirty at the Necro in PvE (endgame) should really first get a history lesson!

Well it's easy, if u want people to use the new Harbinger power traits at all, it needs to be better, otherwise you would go for Reaper, which has much more survivability. OR, ANet could just redesign the upper-trait line completely ...

Well it's easy, if u want people to use the new Harbinger power traits at all, it needs to be better, otherwise you would go for Reaper, which has much more survivability. OR, ANet could just redesign the upper-trait line completely ...

After a lot of testing and benchmarking, I come up with the following regarding the Harbinger: The GOOD: First and foremost, the design is great, it's filling that much desired role in which the Necro has always been the worst at, pretty much since launch back in 2012. It could (with the right numbers) be the absolute condi king in endgame content, which this class was always deprived off, and so much deserved to be. Obviously the punishing blight element is key here, cause being able to diss out so much DPS without a trade-off, was imo the main reason why Necro was always benching around that dreaded bottom-place, which we Necro players were always quite familiar with. Next to sheer (condi) DPS, it's also filling other much needed gaps like: mobility and even boonshare! Especially on the boonshare, it really looks like this spec is catered to PvE endgame content (like raids, t4 fractals, strikes, etc.)! Again, the one place, where Necro was well famous for underperforming most of its career (since 2012). Blight might not be that great in other content like Open World or PvP/WvW. Which is fine, cause it's not like the other Necro specs are really underperforming in those areas. Also, boonshare could still be a good option in PvP/WvW. Playstyle is a lot different from what we were used to with the other Necro specs. Much more active and fast paced. Again, exactly what the Necro was missing. Survivability! Normally people would put this in the "BAD" section, but I like it! It's a trade-off, you're not supposed to have great DPS and/or utility without a trade-off. And blight ... hampering your survivability a LOT, is actually one of the better designed ones, so far. Thanks ANet. Some don't like it, but I actually do like the simplicity of the trait design. Yes, they feel a bit lacklustre in design, but sometimes simplicity isn't a bad thing. KISS! (Condi) DPS Benchmark!!!! Wow, it literally tops the chart atm with something like 45k DPS at kitty ... Yay, finally a top DPS, which as a first time is actually NOT a bug 🙂. Please ANet ... Pretty PLEASE, keep it there! After so many years being the very bottom of the barrel, they now deserve that first spot ... at least for a while! The BAD: POWER DPS .... You have a full traitline dedicated to power DPS augmentation and it's turning out to be terrible. Absolutely no-one will use the upper traitline with numbers and results like that! Reaper is in every regard a better choice ... so is every other Power DPS class, btw. And they all have much better survivability. Elixers are a bit underwhelming at the moment. Maybe because the traits are already simple in design, you don't want to have the utility skills be simple in design as well? And it's definitely very simple in design. Boons, stunbreak, condicleanse ... that's it. Imo ANet should add some more spice to it. Maybe adding some damage to it, or condi's, or maybe combo fields/finishers. And definitely longer durations of the boons. It's kinda low on boon duration at the moment imo. I myself actually only took them along for the added blight. It's a bit of a more mobile spec, but doesn't seem to have that many "avoidance" options available. Yes it has an evade skill now, and it has that one trait (in the terrible upper trait line) that offers stability, but it's still missing blocks, invulns and other real good "avoidance" stuff. I know it's not really supposed to be catered to PvP and WvW where "avoidance" is really important, but also in PvE it's important to have some, and thus remains the ONE big gap in the Necro's arsenal. Whereas many other gaps (like high dps benchmarks, mobility and boonshare) have now been closed with the Harbinger. The UGLY: Elixer skill icons ... Why the pirate-hat 😄

Wow, I really like what I see, and it almost sounds like it's exactly giving that what I've been asking for, for a long time now. It almost looks like a more mobile, glassy, pure cDPS spec with some self-inflicting/punishing mechanism. In other words, not the easiest to play class anymore, but in the right hands absolutely devastating. The only thing I don't get is that it looks like a condi dps spec. Scourge is finally setting some good condi benchmarks now, could it receive the nerf-hammer?

and I think here lies the real problem, not if some class is or isn't beginner friendly, but what we see as beginners. I hope we both (in the sake of OP's question) aren't talking about first timers that still have to level to 80. Because well, if that's the goal (level 80) and want to reach that as easily as possible, there's only one real profession, and that's warrior. It has the highest innate armor rating AND health pool, and especially that first part is incredibly valuable in the beginning of the game where you probably don't even know what that small yellow bar is above your health globe and you don't get that many DoT's against you yet. I hope we're both actually talking about beginners beyond that! And then we're getting both on a different page here. You see, I see beginners (in the beyond 80 stage) as people that don't know how to dodge at the right moment, people that can't yet tell telegraphed signs from their opponents/monsters, people that facetank most of the damage and don't do much about positioning or don't even know how to do ranged in the first place (just stand there in the thick of things). On the other hand, I don't see any reason for a beyond level 80 beginner to not know what their skills do: it's not such a big time investment to actually read your traits/skills and maybe visit a website like metabattle.com, discretize.eu, etc. or even the forums. I see a lazy person (which a lot of gamers are, nothing wrong with that, btw) but not necessarily a beginner! I know veterans that still don't know what their skills/traits do!!! Hell, it's not even that difficult to learn rotations. Mostly half an hour on a golem is enough (to at least get the rythm of it, which is all you need as a beginner). So again, IMO, difficulty of rotations, etc. is not something that makes a class beginner friendly or not. It makes a player lazy if they don't want to invest half an hour of their time into it, but not necessarily a beginner (again beyond level 80). Btw, I'm not judging here, I know a lot of players that don't want to practise rotations, it just mostly takes them longer to complete stuff! If they still enjoy the game that way, who am I to judge. Now back to what I see as something a beginner (beyond level 80) cannot do, is mostly about knowing your surroundings/enemies/mechanics and avoiding the damage you could take from them. And if you look at that video, it's especially the things this guy is NOT doing (and is even proud of it: not dodging ones even)! Ow and things like using skill 1 on your Jackal, considering as not beginning friendly ... well, I can then only say we're in a complete different ballpark as what you think is beginner friendly and what I think is. I will throw you a bone though, Trailblazer is indeed something you get only when you play the game for more than just a while. But like @Konrad Curze.5130 was stating already, Celestial is probably superior now anyway, so beginners can always go for that now! *edit: @Obtena.7952 and @Daddy.8125, it sounds like I'm saying you're wrong when I read it back, but I'm not trying to say that, btw. It's just a difference of opinion on how we see beginners. It shows how subjective terms like easy and beginner-friendly are!

Have you clicked this link ... I mean if that's not easy ... then, what is??? The guy isnt even dodging ... doesn't do a perfect rotation and is just facetanking most of the dmg ... and this is before the Elements of Rage buff ... and btw Avatar of Balthazar is considered to be hard content by most players, let alone beginners. Really, people can complain all they like about the difficulty of classes, but when it comes to open world: EVERY single class has their beginner friendly options available!

Good point!

I never said it was the absolute easiest option (which is subjective btw, but hey), I said that also Ele's have their faceroll builds when it comes to open world ... just like every other class. Don't forget, open world is generally easy! It's supposed to be, it's the design of the game. Except for maybe soloing HoT champions (which Trailblazer Ele happens to be really good at, btw), most of the content in open world is really beginner friendly, with all classes!!! As long as you know how to play them: which you can actually learn by reading your skills and traits (first of all), know which ones are important (rotations), and then have some practice with it (there's a whole open world for you to do that 🙂). And it really helps if you (as a beginner) don't dive into full Berserker or Viper gear straight away (with the exception of Reaper and to a somewhat lesser extend: Warrior, cause you're capped in DPS, so if you don't want to be useless, going full DPS as in: Berserker gear is the only option). @Daddy.8125: I know all Ele mains are really (b***)hurt right now, and I agree they're not in a very good state right now, but this has nothing to de with open world! I actually have the opinion that ANet should not ever balance towards open world, they should balance to the PvE endgame, PvP and WvW.

Well, you got me there, I mean Vagabond of course!!! 🙂

I just have to disagree with you. You're playing the (Trailblazer) Ele wrong then. I recommend the Tempest, cause in my experience they tend to be a bit easier. Although Weaver, once you know the rhythm of the rotation you'll be amazed how much AoE damage you can do in open world. And the best thing about it is, which a LOT of people don't even know but is statistically proven when gw2raidar was still a thing: the condi Weaver actually has quite a forgiving rotation! Sure there are some key skills (like Weave Self), but missing a beat is not that punishing like say: "the Necro using that 1 button as a second life bar" which will plummet its already lowest DPS output. But back to the topic at hand. Although I have quite some experience in raiding with all classes, cause well ... my main has never actually been really welcome in raids in the first place, so you'll start to learn other professions really well!!! I think the OP wants to know about open world and beginner friendly classes. And the only real answer is this: all classes have their builds (especially if you're open to different stat combinations than the ones set in stone) that shine in open world ... EVEN Eles! Just have a look at this page: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Open_World It's not a coincidence that Ele has the most 5-star rated builds on this page!

Stigma's are hard to get rid of, but full Trailblaizer gear says hi! It doesn't get much easier in open world with a full Trailblazer Ele (doesn't matter which spec, it's all faceroll!). For some kind of reason, people only think there's only 2 stat combinations in this game: Berserker and Viper, but open your eyes: Trailblazer and Marauder (and such) are really good alternatives for the so called "difficult classes" out there. It's not for nothing that their max damage cap is significantly higher compared to the so called "beginner friendly" classes! Which actually makes every single class beginner friendly. You just have to think out of the box! My 2 cents, though: Marauder Daredevil (or any Thief for that matter) with Invigorating Precision. You heal crazy amounts pretty much every time you do damage (cause Marauder gear gives you the extra precision which synergizes really well with Invigorating Precision) and still do a LOT of damage! And the extra vitality from Marauder is so you hardly ever get one-shotted! And oh yeah: mobility ... it's a breeze! (compared to the Necro you were getting tired of)

I see quite a lot of people that are probably not REAL Necro players! Marauder is a good choice for pretty much every other profession out there (especially in open world), but Reaper is the one big exception to that rule! Reaper should have enough Precision to maximize its critical chance to 100% quite easily (in many occasions (especially in Fractals, for instance)). And everything above 100% is useless!! Furthermore, Reaper has the lowest (power) damage cap compared to all other professions. That's why other professions are pretty much "allowed" to go a bit more for defence (with Marauder gear) compared to a Reaper. A Reaper is "supposed" to go full Berserker for a reason! Anyway, you can always put "training wheels" on if you really want to be a bit more defensive, but I would then go for Valkyrie, and definitely NOT Marauder. But again, it would be a good idea to eventually throw these "training wheels" off!! Btw: it's obviously quite negligible, but there's always the option to go for 'Berserker+Valkyrie' stat on Trinkets. You get a tiny bit of Vitality in return for a tiny bit of Precision (which is again, not really needed for the Reaper). It might help a little bit for you!

Hmm, to make it even worse, it's not even consistent! I tried it about 100 times (using the reset skills mechanism midfight) Around 80% of the time I end up with 5 stacks of bleeding om me, but the other 20% I ended up with the single stack of poison still on me. I tried different timings (sometimes with big gaps between them), with or without quickness, but I don't see any clear consistencies there, except that Torment was always transferred (for me, at least). So real randomness, is also NOT the case! Pfff

As far as I know, it's actually quite complex. I think you have to press F5 (shroud) precisely in the aftercast of the 2nd BiP. Then and only then you get the right 2 condi's to transfer (Torment and Bleed). I haven't tested it yet, but if you pause the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW9vqxZnp_w video at the exact right timing around 5 3/4th of a second, you see F5 is already in recharge, whereas BiP isnt yet, and it still transfers the right conditions. The reason behind it, I don't really know, but I guess it has to do something with the fact that Plague Sending works on your first attack (or first strike damage), whereas it can already be activated beforehand ... But again, not entirely sure how it exactly works though

I always thought the next e-spec would be the absolute Condi King the Necro so much deserves and was expected to be by many people, but never really was! But, this last patch did buff the Necro (especially Scourge) quite a lot in that matter, so I'm a bit confused now what's going to be next?!? - Maybe a vampire theme where you deal a LOT of damage, but it comes with a (significant) cost. - Maybe a real Minion Master, where minions are baked into the espec (like Dadnir is also mentioning). - Maybe a completely new playstyle experience, like a Wraith where you control your material self, but also your ghostly self. (How... I don't know, but not comparable to a pet or illusion/clone, but really a 2nd necromancer with different skills!)

Hmmm, I'm actually really excited about these changes. I guess condi builds are going to be (more of) a thing in the PvE endgame, again!! Which is really nice. Also: Necro (probably Scourge the most), who was wildly underperforming (especially) in condi dmg in the PvE endgame will definitely get a major boost by these changes! What I do wonder now though: is how the new elite spec will pan out then. I really thought it HAD to become a condi king, for we didnt have one, so far (sure: Scourge is/was nice, but mostly support, and when taken for condi, pretty much outshined by all other professions).

OK ... I'm not debating how skill and gear interact here compared to other games. GW2 allows players to choose from a wide range of builds that they can be successful with. Many other MMO's don't. Success threshold is low and this is why you can take "40% less DPS" builds and win. If you did that in other games, you would be crushed. This is just not true! Have you played any other MMO's?Just like in GW2, when you hit endgame content in pretty much any other MMO, you have a very wide range of viable builds available! Not to mention the fact, that pretty much every MMO has some sort of a carry option/buying success option out there, so if you look at it from that point of view, you can be successful with literally anything / any build in any MMO! So, the argument of being able to be successful in GW2 (or any other game for that matter) is a non argument. Optimal or near optimal builds on the other hand: I don't know if there's any other game out there that's worse than GW2 at the moment, or if that's possible, even! I mean: GW2 has only a handful (near) optimal builds in the endgame (not even 1 in every single class!), whereas, I don't know any other MMO out there that has at least twice the amount of that, or far more common, around 10x the amount of very close to optimal builds available. Btw: I think I see where you might be confused: builds are something different than for instance a character level or gear level, or gated content. That has nothing to do with builds. As far as I know, you have to be level 80 to get into raids in GW2 as well. It's just gated like that! But once you hit that (gear) level and can open that gate in any MMO, builds are going to matter, and really, you would be surprised how many viable builds there are in any MMO, just like there is in GW2. So again, we can talk a lot about the viability of builds on these forums (i.e. can you be successful with a build, or not), but it's just talking about the weather, it doesn't get you anywhere and is only mildly interesting to talk about, imo. (near) Optimal builds, on the other hand, is a very painful topic here in GW2!

At what point do people see that that's very predictive behaviour of ANY community. We are sheep after all! Follow the leader, leader, leader, follow the leader!