Twilight Tempest.7584

Whataboutism and strawman arguments at their finest. Or do point to where I kid myself by saying cele harb is the only thing broken in WvW. And how would you know whether anyone is offended at being told cele harb is busted unless you were part of the DMs I've had with said players in game?

The hit to frame rates would surely hinder the invaders!

Whether Desert home BL is an advantage or disadvantage is certainly debatable. But the map differences aren't just limited to DBL. EBG is an asymmetric map. The Wiki suggests that red garrison is the most challenging to defend, while green's is the easiest. Regardless, there's no ignoring the inconsistency within the mode's own internal logic: Right now, both winning teams (those moving up a tier), and the third place team in T4 (the absolute bottom of the WvW ladder), are assigned Red. I don't know if the latter is always like that, but it has been for the past three weeks and counting in the current link. If DBL is an advantage, it makes no sense for winning teams to get it the following week. If it's a disadvantage, it makes no sense for the weakest team in WvW to be stuck on it week after week.

If: RBL is generally disliked and seen as a disadvantage to have as HBL; Teams that place first in a match and move up a tier (winners) are assigned red HBL; and Teams that place third in a match and move down a tier (losers) are assigned green HBL; then Why does the losing-est team in the entire ladder get perma-stuck on T4 RBL? This is now three weeks in a row and counting on RBL, not to mention another week prior to the last World Restructuring beta week, and in my personal case, during the beta week as well. That's 5 out of the last 6 weeks on RBL for me, all while coming in dead last (not even close scores). I know rankings don't matter other than for matchmaking, but HBL assignments do affect the match experience. Red HBL is not insurmountable, but it's certainly a handicap/disadvantage an already struggling team does not need. Wouldn't it make more sense for the third place team in T4 to be assigned GBL if they must be stuck on anything week after week?

Imagine equating theoretical build options with actual in-game representation.

Somewhere in the past year (?) Anet acknowledged the WvW-compared-to-other-modes rewards disparity and the glacial rate of Skirmish Ticket gain, and suggested they want to improve these as part of their efforts towards making WvW a "cornerstone" game mode. While it would seem relatively simple to implement, I suppose it's paced with World Restructuring development.

Did you even watch the video? The guy who said he thinks the berserk variant of this build is strongest, lost! Despite being big-brained by Vallun, he probably wouldn't have gone down so fast, if at all, had he not been pure glass. Unlike all the cele-condi or condi-tank builds running around. One guy giving the opinion that the power variant of a specific build is better than the cele version of that build ≠ condi builds in general are not OP. It's one guys' opinion, about one specific build, and nothing more. 8 out of 10 meta builds being power, even if accurate ≠ condi builds in general are not OP. For instance, what if there are only 2 out of 10 meta builds that are condi, but 50% or more of the population plays them? What would that suggest? Yes, condi can be cleansed, but it also ignores armor, tends to be spammy, ranged, subtlely animated, and allows building heavily into survivability since it only depends on 1-2 stats.

IME a lot of cele harbinger players are remarkably ignorant they're playing a busted build, and get super offended if you point it out. Kinda like the ones in here.

When was the last time you actually played thief seriously? EDIT: No answer, as expected. People sure love to talk about things they have no clue about.

Member when Thief had damage appropriate to its glassiness?

Harb, WB, and Mech all seem to be FOTM. They're everywhere. They can be built stupidly tanky while doing decent damage thanks to Cele stats, WB's mobility rivals Thief's, and Harb is still busted in WvW since none of the nerfs carried over from other modes (why?!). No surprise that the Holy Trinity's EoD specs are over-tuned and overrepresented. Generally agree. But that also suggests that about 10% of the Thief player base is alone responsible for all the salt and qq against Thieves. Compare that to any other meta roamer with whom certainly more than 1 in 10 encounters may not go well for the average player.

SA changes had no effect on Vault. That's a niche build that can catch people off guard because it's not common. It has lots of evade frames and can hit like a truck if it gets on top of you. Its drawback is that it's 100% melee... something a Ranger should be able to capitalize on.

And at least they let me get my Veteran Creature daily 😄

That happens sometimes, but I wouldn't say it's more than Sic 'em SLB. That combo is just too accessible. Anyone who can press four keys in the right order can do it so long as they pick an appropriate target. Certain servers have a reputation for having more of them too, so experiences may differ.

"Memebeast" really isn't healthy for the game. Its only purpose is the dopamine hit the degens who play it enjoy at the expense of eliminating any potential for actual engagement by their target. Outside of boon blobs, beginners and veterans alike too often fall prey to it when singled out from 1500+ range (often off screen), especially when they're focused on something else. The build is not without counters, but when inadequately mitigated, the basic combo is so easy and effective, it probably has the highest instagib success rate in WvW currently. The effort to effectiveness ratio is unmatched. The only skill required is picking out a squishy/distracted/inexperienced target. Given that, the odds of success are high. I don't think Rangers generally should be nerfed. Only the "Memebeast" degen build should be toned down. It can still hit like a truck, just reduce the instagib effectiveness so more players actually get to do something besides respawn. The way OWP was nerfed in PvE may not be the most elegant solution, but if they were going to reign in the burst anyway, they ought to have done so in WvW, where other players are the unsuspecting victims, not just NPCs. Sometimes it seems Anet's balance focus is more concerned with NPC feelings than players'.

I only began playing the holy trinity classes in the past year (still have barely touched engi) and coming from everything else it's all too obvious what the devs play.

Sure, but at the end of the day, who's the better thief? Willbender or... Thief? That's basically the sub-debate Arolandis and I were having since WB got compared to Thief. The survive options you mentioned only go so far and are 100% active defenses. WB is loaded with passive block spam and on-block traits, near perma-Protection, access to stab and invuln, all on a heavy armor class that's at least as mobile as Thief. When you have that combination of survivability, mobility, and burst potential, who needs stealth? WB can do everything a good Thief player can do, but with a lot less effort. Chalk it up to classic xpac power creep.

Another constructive comment from the forum smart aleck.

As you focus on comparing to Thief, it's not hard to see how WB is overtuned: Mobility: A heavy-armor class that took the "king of mobility" title from Thief. So it has best-in-game chase and disengage potential, which means it 100% picks its fights. Survivability: Thief really only has stealth--with all the counterplay and anti-stealth mechanics in WvW (marked, revealed) that literally cancel Thief's primary survival strategy. Stealth by definition means not fighting, not doing damage, not capturing objectives. It's a glorified "time out." Meta WB has block (Aegis) spam, on-block traits, high protection up-time, access to stability, and access to invulns/effective invulns in Renewed Focus and Reversal of Fortune, all on a heavy armor class. A key difference: WB's types of survivability allow it to actually remain engaged in a fight or objective capture. Offense: When Thief fails a burst, its only options are to disengage or stay and die. When WB fails a burst, it can stick around and brawl, thanks to its superior survivability. If things go south, it can outrun anything that isn't another WB. Otherwise, it can stick to its opponent who has no chance of escape. Certainly in 1v1, skill being equal, I don't see how WB isn't favored versus most Thief builds. WB is more or less the non-stealth-dependent, mobile brawler concept that many thief players have long wanted. Dare I say WB is basically a better thief? In a perfect balance world, tiers wouldn't even exist, because everything would be in the same tier. So if we'd rather not nerf WB, then underperforming builds should be buffed to bring them more in line. The problem with balancing things this way too much is it leads to overall power creep and sets the meta up for mass nerfs like in February 2020 again.

Equal access to these things doesn't balance out builds that start off in different performance tiers. If one build is A-tier and another is B-tier, buffing both the same amount does not put then in the same tier. Outrunning them. While having solid damage and survivability.

D/P SA = Dagger/Pistol Shadow Arts (trait line).

If you haven't seen it, the June 28th update changed several Shadow Arts traits along with other trait lines and utilities. One direct nerf to stealth uptime is the new Meld with Shadows which no longer increases the duration of self-applied stealth. So every time you stealth via Silent Scope, you no longer have that extra duration. I used to use my DE to farm Winterberry bushes in Bitterfrost Frontier, and it was by far the most expedient farming. I didn't bother with stacking stealth duration. Instead, I only relied on Silent Scope to stealth as I approached bushes, losing any aggro from the nearby NPEs, gather the berries, and mount up and zoom off as the stealth wore off. This was all possible because I used Glyph of Industry which reduces gather time by 50%. It can be purchased on the TP or it comes with the Firestorm Logging Tool rotationally available through the Gem Store. If you don't already have the Glyph of Industry, I think you'd find it indispensable for expedient farming. If you do find that you need longer uninterrupted stealth uptime, your only option is to continue using various stealth utilities and perhaps Hide in Shadows, which is now the only stealth heal since the update eliminated Concealing Restoration, in conjunction with the combo effects others mentioned. The combos may seem awkward and spammy at first, but you can stack solid stealth duration from them to fill in the gaps between utilities. And as mentioned, they can be done outside of combat, even when you're already stealthed. However, In order not to waste existing stealth time by performing the combos in stealth, you should start off with the combos, then use utilities after. Keep repeating as needed. Hope this helps.

Fast forward to EoD. OP has found their busted cele build and gets their pistol fix with the Harbinger FOTM so many "skilled" roamers are flexing around on.

People tend to think Deadeye, stealth, and thief in general are stronger than they are--until they play it themselves and realize it's not all it's cracked up to be. They won't be used to how easy it is to be blown up coming from their tanky guardians and necros, the lack of passive defenses like periodic aegis, and lack of actual invulns like mesmers and eles. They'll be surprised how much they still get hit in stealth and how skilled opponents almost seem to have thermal vision as they chase, cleave, and throw AOEs that make them question whether they're actually invisible. They'll have a rude awakening when channeled skills like Rapid Fire follow them into stealth. Coming from specs that have passive defenses, actual invulns, and the luxury of face tanking some damage, they'll quickly realize how thieves have only active defenses and reaction time to count on. That stealth is overrated and mainly only good for avoiding fights. Eventually, most will decide it's too much effort and go back to lower intensity things to play. And that's why thieves, especially Deadeyes, aren't especially common outside WvW roaming. Cracking the stealth code is pretty much a right of passage in competitive modes. Right there with learning how to pick out the real mesmer. It can feel miserable/broken/toxic at first. But once the learning curve is passed, it isn't so bad.