Crab Fear.1624

Duelist and roamer and decapper are not the same. If how you described duelist was true, thief would be best duelist. But, it's not. It has limited presence in any skirmish, and it's value is in boosting a fight or decapping, and ANY deviation from this role, for most thieves is 99% a waste. Holo, Weaver, Druid, Spellbreaker, and Core Ranger have way more value in a team or sides, and they can all hold a 1 v x. Literally trying to fabricate a situation that doesn't exist. phony baloney Players will gatekeep OP builds by complaining. Trash builds like side node scrapper decapper and pulse off revs are garbage tanks and unwanted. Crap like this will be erased. Bro, ele is the single most OP class in the game, gatekeeping eveyone else from side node and support metas, and even top spotting team fighting and roaming. That's the class to delete.

Man, if it was a reasonable nerf, I swallow the pill. Maybe I cry, but they can take smokescreen and SA to the dumpster, and I'll own it like a champ. Now, I have to play SA or no DP? Not once have they ever walked back any smiter's boon nerfs. They have never once, never, ever once, conceded they made a mistake.

One other thing, with the patch... Where is the warrior buffs? You can't be so out of touch to actually believe warrior has a top spot or a meta spot in any role. Can they be viable, and are they capable in the strongest of hands? Yes Is that right? Consider guardian and necro. Then compare the strength of those compare to the strength of war. I wonder how many players are with an unknown warrior and automatically assume they have a liability on their team. Doubly so when you see zerker.... It's really out of touch when you make comments saying they have a strong presence in any role. Bros, Warrior needed buffs, not ele... But, since you gave ele buffs, you must be focused so much on that. Truth be told, the average player has to be able to lb for lb the role. It shouldn't be viable only in 1700+ hands. Just this shows, this patch ain't ready.

So this is the build I run almost exclusively when I play daredevil. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAgqVlFw2YisLGJOaXntSA-zZIPlMFC9KC6WBUwEwPDA If you clicked the link and reviewed the build, you will see I run deadly arts instead of shadowarts. I can't keep stealth up permanently, but I run a waterdown version of the OLD DASH DP. It hits a bit harder in compensation, but I am easier to hawk down because I don't have SA boosting my stealth or speed. Now, the heal and one stunbreak are going to be hammered. I won't reap any of the benefits from SA. The players know to keep playing SA because their cooldowns will go up to what mine are now, which are obviously viable, at my point. Now, I can't run these skills. The problem is shadowarts, and always was shadowarts, and you are going to slap cooldowns on skill, instead of just nerfing shadowarts. It seems like the direction is just coming from nowhere. IF shadowarts is going to make SPECTRE too strong, then go AFTER SHADOWARTS. SO, instead of nerfing the problem, you are killing diversity. I play alternative builds because I don't like the insinuation that I am carried to whatever level I achieve, and I prefer to make my own way. These kind of nerfs literally shoehorn players into one thing. I don't agree with any of this patch and honeslty, it doesn't look like you guys prepared for it. It seems to me this is just a false play to make us think you gave pvp a thought. For real, it would be better to hold off on any pvp patch until after the dust settles with the final release of the expansion. Why touch anything before then? You had to have made some changes to the new specs that you can't be certain what will be on release day. So, why are you patching on release day? Can you not ruin the game for one patch and on an expansion release for crap sake? I know the devs don't read this but I wanted to type it out, and either get bashed or a back pat lol.

You can duel, but it will get interrupted. That's the nature of the game. Numbers, making fights uneven for advantage. The players voiced it enough, they don't want builds that can sustain 1 v x long term, as it is slow and tanky. Also, holding out so long and still making kills isn't fun or fair to fight. Side noders exist well enough. But something has to be available to put that fire at out. Duelists, just don't have a place in the game when fused with a side noder. And what roamers? There is only a +1/decapper and everyone else is either side node or duelist or team fight. there won't be any more poeple playing. you should be happy as ele is the top side noder and duelist in the game, to the point of being broken.

Side noders as it seems the OP and many want, are undesirable and unwanted and have been virtually removed from SPvP....for good reason. If no one can kill them, and they can hold 1 v 2 v 3 v x, and can still score kills....how is that balanced. The balance has happened over the years so you have to decide what to bring. Your builds are too low on sustain if you can't hold a plus against thief....it means you speced into dps.... This is how balance works. Dueling is for ffa and public rooms. Expect to get eliminated quick by a plus if you are trying that. Another nerf thief thread in disguise. Thief can burst and move on, but they don't take a sustained fight or duel....this is the tradeoff. You can hold the point against multiple players, even other plus, as long as it's not thief? Then you want to nerf thief so that isn't problem, and you can be a god. Sounds like you are trying to create an essay advantage. I hope anet doesn't listen to this, as it is completely illogical and biased.

Thief can't be stealth and attack at same time. All you want is ez mode, and any decent shirro will melt you as a plus. You are not outplaying a shiro plus if the other is worth their salt and not a outplaying a thief....lol... Just strait bias in your words. I've watched and played against many side noders that can hand around linger than they should while being plused by a thief. That in itself is outrageous. You just said yourself though....you can outplay other pluses..... So you want to create a no counter play scenario for yourself.... Lmao

The side node is not a duelist.... Why you don't understand? Side node should be tanky, or built just as you described. Sorry to the dude below you, but dueling doesn't really have a strong role in conquest, because of +1s...... Which don't only come from thief. If I come on shiro, +1 is like 2 seconds, you at least get 5 according to you with thief.

Main issue isn't thief, side node is not dueling. If you are duelist, you will have damage, but running away becomes harder. Duelist isn't tank, it is a technical mechanical reactive role. Side noding is getting at least a decap and stalling it from being anything but neutral, even better if it's your color against multiple. You a r e aide node so expecting kills is a bonus, not the main deal. If you win fights it's through attrition and stupidity of the other party. Thief is good to neutralize roles like yours, but not always possible. If no counterplay to sidenode...very op and boring

If they would remove duo, remove ftp, and hard reset everyone soft, but without placement volatility, you would see more accurate leaderboard and ratings. Any system that can be gamed, will be gamed. Play the "game".

Lol, lies. All you want is a free kill. A "Good thief".....like someone who mastered their class is an issue. I've seen plenty of fat mouths saying how easy thief is, yet less then 10 worldwide are as impressive as people make them out to be. I see dead thieves all the time, most people that play them are not "good". The ones, you must be xomplaining about, fall in that group of 10. Any duelist can sit on the node....boom counterplay. Stupid thief comes to team fight.....I. counterplay. Thief trys to duel at or above its skill level....counterplay. All thief can do is decap unguarded points, and jump you when you are busy...but this is natural order. There has to be something that can punish the stallers...side noders... Fun builds generally turn out to be broken OP carrying bullcrap. Get better my dude.

They say duelist and side nodes are not the same though. The reasoning was side noders are mobile stallers...shot callas...20 inch blades on the impala..... And duelist are not nearly as mobile but they can take fights and put bad dogs down. But, just imagine for a moment.... A very mobile duelist that can team fight... You would be asking for what was the very reasoning why thief receives so many nerf...... Lol, amazing

Dude, they knew what they were doing when they made spectre. They knew it would be high mobility and have stealth, it has to have something to help it sustain because it doesn't have all the extras that a tempest, druid, or the omega core guardian has. Remember when FB was viable, omegalul. All those options were not only better at offering support, cleansing condis, providing boons, they were also better at surviving against direct focus. Thief doesn't have things in their kit to stand up to the wombo combos and focus, other than mobility and stealth. You say take away mobility and stealth, it's obvious that mindset just wants a free kill. Unfortunatly, some unknown using these two skills on a WvW Spectre build isn't justification to nerf the PVP skills, that literally makes ZERO sense. If stealth is a problem, but thieves need stealth, then why leave the cooldown reduction in shadowarts and the stealth extension, and the stealth on steal? Thieves that use shadowarts will be inconvenienced, but it's ok. Thieves that have relied on thee skills without using shadowarts, are omega-screwed. Defending their decision is odd, because it was made probably the night before, and they are just going to cooldown the top used skills, that's it. There is no major philosophy or insight. The insight comes from at best, from a cheetoh stained lot, snickering on discord. This 100% makes shadowarts mandatory, so if stealth was the problem, they would have went after it. But, they are TRYING to sell spectre, and weaken other builds. They did it for the last two expacs. Nerfed acro for daredevil. Nerfed daredevil for DE, which is still garbage.

Could they not just nerf shadow arts? If you take SA, the skills will be 32 and 40secs, after the nerfs. *normal training Still viable for SA users, but uh....what about deadly art users? These skills are kittening whack then, wtf..... Literally they should go for shadowarts, but this is a push into using it. You are probably right, they want to sell spectre Edit.... You SHOULD HAVE to make a class choice to perform certain roles. Why 9 professions if all are going to be the same one day? Ridiculous

This doesn't matter. If they play pvp, it affects them, doesn't matter the mode.

No, you have it wrong dude. Many play thief because it has stealth and that play style. Literally, making it anything else, and there are better options for non stealth play, which one should play. Such as revenant. They need to stop listening to a vocal minority that hates thief because they refuse to learn how it functions. Necro mains should try to ressurect their ability to adapt. If they remove stealth from thief.... I'll adapt my kitten to another game.

If I want to play non stealth thief, I'll play revenant.

Nerf shadowarts, and smokescreen. Why are you making thieves have a 40 second heal, and nerfing a skill you have already basically destroyed? These nerfs only boost reliance on shadowarts. Completely out of touch with your players.

The one making decisions is getting ideas from a private discord

Hide in shadows is the goat heal, on any build. These changes make shadowarts mandatory for dp. Bye bye diversity.

Meh, I play war just like I do thief and guard and rev. I'd rather see them make war have damage be added to cc skills based on meeting conditions. Like imagine if bull charge didn't knockdown unless the target was movement impaired, but bring back the original damage.

nevermind, i dont care.

1 week

For these 2 v 2 and 3 v 3 bot fiestas, a week is good enough.

There is really only one class that can do that right now. You know, I'm not gonna beat around the bush. Weaver.