kapri.5918

I was talking about your previous posts that wasn't the one quoted had political slants. The post I quoted didn't have much of an argument at all. Perhaps you don't understand the mechanics of GW2 cosmetics. Cosmetics aren't armor. Cosmetics are SKINS that you put on armor. Armor is merely the quantifiable object in a player's inventory that holds stat points. If the prospect of a skin that is designed to be open and expose the avatar's body is the problem, then perhaps I could leave you be, but it seems you're complaining about semantics. And this is the argument of realism. It doesn't work. What do you even gain by trying to prohibit a character from using a specific skin to fight in? It's extremely petty. To sum up your argument: "You want to look like a half-naked bimbo on my screen? Well I want to punish you for it. Good day." Bye Felicia. Hopefully I can make this clear. I gave my reasons on why it is wrong to me and how GW2/fantasy lore is. You seem to have thought that I wish you punished for having a bikini "skin." I honestly do not. Each person in this game wants their characters to be unique in their own way. If that involves their character wearing a bikini then who am I to judge? I am tired of saying this and being punished for it...so I apologize if you felt that I was being offensive.

Just going on the record, I fundamentally disagree with pretty much that whole post but I'd rather not go into such tangents here. I think it's suffice to say that limiting what options an avatar in a game can wear isn't going to change social norms nor is it going to protect or aid anyone. At best, it caters to the sensibilities of certain individuals that wish not to see such things while also losing out on easy potential profit from those that would indeed purchase the cosmetic. So...in the end, let's let ArenaNet ignore the biggest factor that makes this game great and that is the overall depth of lore it has to it. Are there things in the game that clash with "realism" and logical outfitting? Yes. Does the fact that I do not mention or talk of them mean that I do not bear them in mind? No. Should ArenaNet implement a bikini armor or armor skin? Totally up to them. And whether or not you want to continue this discussion, I'll leave you with this. Research the MMO Scarlet Blade. How far is ArenaNet willing to go for profit? I wish you well. You keep adding "realism" into your argument. It doesn't help you. No, it does not. Especially since this is a game where this is the only point that would hold up having bikinis as armor. And you keep dodging my arguments. That doesn't help you. What argument? The only other portion of the post that had an argument had to do with depth of lore and likely immersion. Are you arguing that swim suits don't exist in the lore of GW2? Or that magic predicates the form that their clothing takes? Or that swim suit skins/outfits is the straw that breaks the camel's back? I'm waiting to hear a better statement, hopefully not bogged down with other political messages, of what the game needs and doesn't need. But while saying that, I'm also not petty enough to press a dialog when there really is no room for it, for example, with @"Dante.1763". First and foremost, if you think my argument is somehow political then you have blatantly missed my stance on this. This topic and the issue that I have is Bikini Armor. Armor being the key word. The stuff one wears when going into battle. Do not have an issue with having a bikini in the game but with no armor value and just as a cosmetic...but as actual armor I find it horrendous. You want it as a skin...go for it. I have made my statements. You have neither addressed or acknowledged them. Each time you have responded has been a deflection or a blatant different thing. The only point raised has been that "it could work cause this game isn't real." To which I say Scarlet Blade. Apparently, we seem to be done. Good day.

Just going on the record, I fundamentally disagree with pretty much that whole post but I'd rather not go into such tangents here. I think it's suffice to say that limiting what options an avatar in a game can wear isn't going to change social norms nor is it going to protect or aid anyone. At best, it caters to the sensibilities of certain individuals that wish not to see such things while also losing out on easy potential profit from those that would indeed purchase the cosmetic. So...in the end, let's let ArenaNet ignore the biggest factor that makes this game great and that is the overall depth of lore it has to it. Are there things in the game that clash with "realism" and logical outfitting? Yes. Does the fact that I do not mention or talk of them mean that I do not bear them in mind? No. Should ArenaNet implement a bikini armor or armor skin? Totally up to them. And whether or not you want to continue this discussion, I'll leave you with this. Research the MMO Scarlet Blade. How far is ArenaNet willing to go for profit? I wish you well. You keep adding "realism" into your argument. It doesn't help you.No, it does not. Especially since this is a game where this is the only point that would hold up having bikinis as armor. And you keep dodging my arguments. That doesn't help you.

Just going on the record, I fundamentally disagree with pretty much that whole post but I'd rather not go into such tangents here. I think it's suffice to say that limiting what options an avatar in a game can wear isn't going to change social norms nor is it going to protect or aid anyone. At best, it caters to the sensibilities of certain individuals that wish not to see such things while also losing out on easy potential profit from those that would indeed purchase the cosmetic. So...in the end, let's let ArenaNet ignore the biggest factor that makes this game great and that is the overall depth of lore it has to it. Are there things in the game that clash with "realism" and logical outfitting? Yes. Does the fact that I do not mention or talk of them mean that I do not bear them in mind? No. Should ArenaNet implement a bikini armor or armor skin? Totally up to them. And whether or not you want to continue this discussion, I'll leave you with this. Research the MMO Scarlet Blade. How far is ArenaNet willing to go for profit? I wish you well.

"No. Women are not 1st class citizens that have rights above every other citizen (or they shouldn't be). They (the adults) will be treated like all other adults and can/will be subjected to the same amount of harassment and recrimination that their actions require. No person should be above and protected from these things call social stigmas." I can actually agree to this. Though I would not say stigma as it be-notes a certain bigotry. More along the lines of a social standard. "Is it not a tinge hypocritical to withold the ability to express an opinion while descriminating by an individual's choice of profession?" A person cannot state their opinion without being discriminatory towards someone else. You may find a consensus with others but there will always be an individual or individuals who feels "offended" by that opinion. To hold one's piece on something though is up to the individual or group alone. That opinion should be allowed to be expressed freely but is ultimately determined by the person with the opinion and at what level importance they hold it. Various reasons will dictate this choice. "Frankly, it's not about who feels what, it's about the double standards being held, not by those sex workers, but by the regular people going out of their way to make other regular people adhere to the same faulty double standards they hold." We, as a society, have always held the notion on how people should be. Even in today we hold the standard of what it is to be "cool" or relevant. From the type of clothes, car, the music you listen to, even onto the petty little things have we always adhered to an image set by political leaders, religious leaders, celebrities. We follow those we deem important to tell us what is important and what is taboo. My thoughts on that though is I could care less about what you have. You could be richer than me. You could be a world leader. Or you could be some poor fellow homeless on the street. Who are you. The masses throughout history have shown in how badly in decision making they are. It is the individual I care about. Do you follow the lines like everyone else or do you do your best to stand out and be different? But I am straying. "This conflates that "beauty standards" are literal for women when, in fact, men are far less likely to judge a woman's appearance against the ideal beauty standard (there have been studies to attest to this) than a woman is...who is also apparently being oppressed by said beauty standard. To word it simply, men don't mind a non-ideal woman. On the other hand, muscles aren't the standard for men's attractiveness...that tends to lean more on height among other things. I won't go into the standards for men..." Have you not seen a magazine section of a store? How many magazines are displayed dedicated to women's beauty? That this is the way to look? Same goes for men's health magazines. Men predominantly will not solely judge a woman on her appearance alone. But us men, as a whole will not chase after that girl we do not know that do not meet a certain expectation. I cannot ask you as an individual to honestly answer this but it is true nonetheless that a woman not "prettied up" will be passed over for a woman that is "pretty." The same standard is held to men as well. As a man who is not muscled nor skinny I can attest the fact that women will pass me over for a guy who is in shape and all. How many times has guys like me heard "you're a good/nice guy..."... a lot. "Firstly, take into consideration that your stance may be projecting. You assume wearing certain clothes = sexy (that wouldn't be wrong, in lots of cases) then jump to the conclusion that this "legitimizes women being forced to be sexy". Secondly, your example...I haven't seen it. To be considered sexy is subjective and cannot be made an example of unless it's a widely shared opinion (maybe it is) but dismiss the components of what makes a woman sexy...that is beauty and personality/attitude. Power and intelligence tends not to be in that equation." Projecting...maybe. I also don't assume wearing certain clothes = sexy. They do. Example, take a picture of a real life nurse. Is she, by the standards set of this day and age, sexy? No. But if you take this same woman and dress her in a sexy nurse outfit then yes. Even if you do not dress her that far but add what is the fashion sense of today. Breasts exposed and pushed up. Legs, thighs, and more showing. Full on makeup. Then she is sexy. I use this as a comparison and nothing else. As for forcing people to be "sexy" let me share an article with you. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/instagram-influencer-says-dress-coded-louvre-picasso-loved-outfit-182239493.html Now, my opinion is this. She has the right to wear what she wanted to. But she did this for selfish reasons. She also tried to fight the standards. To which, I feel, were inappropriate. Why? Because visitors to an art museum should not deflect from the art nor treat the art in a way that disrespects it or detracts it. The lady in question then said that she was being "artful" but in this case was being disrespectful as it is not her place to be artful. I am not trying to be disrespectful to her as an individual but her actions were disrespectful. She is not a part of the museum but she went there to force herself to be an art piece. The final thing that she stated was that she said that Picasso would have loved her. Beauty may be subjective but our society has clearly defined what is beauty. Finally, Intelligence is a guiding force towards one's personality. If one does not have intelligence then how can an individual have a personality? If I am to ever meet a woman that I would be lucky enough to have a date or even share a coffee with (let alone share their time) I would hope that that woman is intelligent enough to determine who she is instead of following the norm. The I like it because everyone likes it is degrading in anyone. A woman who is not afraid to speak up. That can debate and reason. A women that follows what a magazine tells her or what the latest fashion trend is just an object. Something that exists and yet exercises no free will. A woman who doesn't seek to appease society and follow the rules because that's how it is done. I kind of feel like I am going to be lamb basted now...

I didn't say you wanted bikinis, I was just expressing my opinion that I'd want exposing armor on my male characters too. I think the primary reason lots of people would want it is so they have the option of something that isn't a buttcape to wear that also shows some of the avatar's legs that can be mixed with other armor options, not simply for the sake of wearing as little as possible. And you think the freedom of exposing their bodies is empowerment is a lie? So feminism is a lie? Well thank goodness you said it and not me. And none of this is saying how women should be beautiful. It is and always has been about the freedom of wearing what they want without people like you chastizing them for it...I guess you're at least holding up your end of the bargain. You're not shaming women for wearing exposing clothes, you're shaming men for liking it, society for allowing men to like it and shaming logical people in the middle trying to explain why your view is contradictory. You're slowly starting to understand what I am saying. Showing one's body in a sexual way is not feminism. How, in any way, does it help promote women as a whole other than give them an image as someone who would only use their sexual assets to promote themselves? Like any group that is non white male, asking for rights but to turn around and only use one asset of their whole being? Would that then be a degradation to those women who want to get into fields that do not require "sexuality" then have to walk around in skimpy attire or bikinis? I am not going to chastise them for wearing what they please. But appearances can tell you a lot about a person. I am also not going to shame my fellow man for enjoying something. But what I am going to do is fight the legitimization that somehow only "strong" and "empowered" women wear sexy clothing or bikinis. This is probably the closest I'll get to an SJdub in actually direct discussion as most normal people I talk to don't actually like or use and disagree with views that directly target people by proxy of group identities such as male, straight, people of color, white, etc. Those identities have a meaning but those idenities are not entities that exist. They are merely categories that don't carry agency, goals, beliefs or rights themselves. It's the individual people that carry and mix those identities that have these things. The ideology that we need to promote women (the identity) rather than women (the actual individuals) is why feminism has created such a bizarre contradictory and backwards atmosphere that has you so confused on the subject. You say showing one's body in a sexual way is not feminism when feminism has said that very thing (in defense of sex workers) as well as the opposite at the same time. Degradation to women? Using only one asset? Fighting against sexy women being considered strong? If you truly believe this group identity is a living being that exists, at what point do you start treating this group identity (women) as an adult rather than a child that must be protected from the ills of the world? But this is getting off topic and likely will get this thread closed. On topic: Introducing a bikini isn't legitimizing sexy women as being the ONLY strong and empowered women. I have no idea how you jumped to that conclusion. First off, Kudos to you for having deep points. Let's delve in shall we? The ability for women to express themselves freely has been a part of feminism forever. I do not disagree on this. A woman should be free to dress how she pleases without fear of harassment or recrimination of any kind. I can understand if I am in some way confused by the twists and turns of the basis of promoting women's identity vs. the individual. But there are very understandable things to it. You make an example of sex workers. Now, I am not going to be offended by their choice of profession. But I do not think they have a right to cry foul tbh. Whether Female or Male individuals in this area, it is not a job that I would consider the promotion of either gender. Nor does it promote the human race in any way. Let's be clear on this that I do not believe I am above them either. But, as stated, with the amount of money the sex industry makes, what people feel should be the least of their worries. Let's continue. I do treat this subject with both thoughts towards adults and children. Because you sit in a world whose mindset is that "sex sells." Tv, movies, comics, games, etc. You can see that in the most predominant cases that each image of the women involved always seem meet a certain requirement. This game does this as well. For example, Eir Stegalkin. Wording this will be tricky but here we go. Eir is an older lady who has fought many battles. And yet, every time we see her she appears young and without blemish. Why? A woman who has dedicated her life in the fight against Elder Dragons and she does not have a scar of any kind? Yet her image is that of what a strong woman is supposed to be...despite that she has led a very hard life she appears young and unblemished. So furthermore to this, what are women and girls supposed to think when this is not only applied to GW2 but to everything else as well? I am not saying beauty should not be celebrated...what I am saying is that beauty/sex appeal should not be made predominant to who a woman is. Similar that a man should not be judged on the amount or lack of muscles he has. A bikini would be adding to this and is one half of the basis of why I am against it. I feel that it furthers the legitimization of "a woman should be sexy." Plenty of cases throughout real life, gaming, etc. where a woman did not show off their body through armor or other measures and yet were beautiful. One example to give, in one of my favorite tow separate book series The Belgariod and The Mallorean series is a lady named Polgara. She never wore sexy clothes. And yet she was always one of the most beautiful (and powerful) women around. In the end, adding bikini armor, in my opinion, hurts the character and further sets a mindset that showing more T&A is more important to the character then say the fighting prowess or the intelligence of the character. And, whether you consider the importance of the character being real or just a silly pixel image, I believe it would promote a false legitimization to girls and women that showing one's bodily assets are just as, if not more, important towards strength.

I didn't say you wanted bikinis, I was just expressing my opinion that I'd want exposing armor on my male characters too. I think the primary reason lots of people would want it is so they have the option of something that isn't a buttcape to wear that also shows some of the avatar's legs that can be mixed with other armor options, not simply for the sake of wearing as little as possible. And you think the freedom of exposing their bodies is empowerment is a lie? So feminism is a lie? Well thank goodness you said it and not me. And none of this is saying how women should be beautiful. It is and always has been about the freedom of wearing what they want without people like you chastizing them for it...I guess you're at least holding up your end of the bargain. You're not shaming women for wearing exposing clothes, you're shaming men for liking it, society for allowing men to like it and shaming logical people in the middle trying to explain why your view is contradictory. You're slowly starting to understand what I am saying. Showing one's body in a sexual way is not feminism. How, in any way, does it help promote women as a whole other than give them an image as someone who would only use their sexual assets to promote themselves? Like any group that is non white male, asking for rights but to turn around and only use one asset of their whole being? Would that then be a degradation to those women who want to get into fields that do not require "sexuality" then have to walk around in skimpy attire or bikinis? I am not going to chastise them for wearing what they please. But appearances can tell you a lot about a person. I am also not going to shame my fellow man for enjoying something. But what I am going to do is fight the legitimization that somehow only "strong" and "empowered" women wear sexy clothing or bikinis.

Don't like it? Oh well. No one made you read my posts. And no one is making you agree with me. Agenda...smdh

If somebody would use the magical barrier argument for cloth, why can it not apply to bikini armor?It could be but it then depends on the ability of the spell itself. Does the spell only cover the cloth or covered areas or is it a full body coverage? If it is a full body coverage then the bikini could protect it's wearer.

Just to be clear.

I responded as I was reading the thread from the 1st post. No, I understand that you're conflating wanting certain fashion choices as sexualization rather than the desire for feminine expression as outlined by feminist empowerment advocates. Your logic flies in the face of those you're trying to "protect" with your contrary opinion. That being said, if female avatars get some kind of bikini or 2-piece, my male Charr deserves a banana hammock too. If you had actually read everything then you would have understood that I don't want bikinis in the game. Nor am I for armor that promotes exposure of skin and vital spots of the body. If you had read my post you would understand this. One thing to be beautiful...whole nother thing with it on the battlefield. If you think blatantly that the over exposure of T&A is empowering to women then you are lying to women. The only people who should say how women should be beautiful are women themselves. Calling yourself a feminine expression advocate is not only a blatant lie and laughably pathetic but is dangerous to women. It's like your Weinstien or some other person who wants to give "advice" to women. Using big words and false friendly terms to objectify how a "strong" woman looks like....

When? That can be answered once you decide when taking realism too far. It's a pointless argument because it doesn't matter. Immersion isn't some fragile china set that GW2 cradles and protects vigilantly. Instead, it creates its own atmosphere and reality that it decides to adhere to. Unless you can point to an example in the game that adheres to your sensibilities specifically, asking when fantasy or reality goes too far is as futile as hypothesizing the inverse (when do you take fantasy or reality not far enough). How does one take realism to far? I have also already acknowledged that ArenaNet controls the "atmosphere" of the game. Maybe since you came into this conversation you would have read the topic of the post let alone wanting to comment on my post you would know just what I am talking about. But again, it seems like you want to look at one post, ignore everything else, and comment without any understanding of the conversation.

When do you take fantasy to far? When do you sit there and say "So, how does this protect my character?" You have a steel bikini that only covers a small portion of the female body and we are supposed to throw reality with it? Yet again, we are supposed to ignore the over exposure of vital spots of the body to satisfy fashion? No. Other games have gone down this path and have suffered for it. This throw out reality cause I want my female character to be over sexualized in a bikini. I do not want this game to go down the path that Scarlet Blade did. There's a difference between being sexualized and being idealized. The dress is metaphor. Our character's outfits figuratively represent who they are, and that is all they need to do, because none of it is real. Real or not, that does not matter and has nothing to do with the point. The word idealized does not mean what you think it does. For one it is a general terminology. Based off of the word idea. Point blank,if you think that a woman in high heels and a steel bikini fighting on a battlefield is not sexual in any way then you are either mentally lacking or just in pure denial of facts. For one, unless your world is blatantly to the point to which even outright nudity is safe from sharp objects, this would never happen. Who's denying facts here. Fact: men are idealized for their physical strength not fairness; women are idealized for their fairness not their physical strength.Fact: because men are physically stronger than women and women are viewed as fairer than men. I feel the stray of logic comes in with the term of "sexualization". Apparently, it's no longer possible to appreciate physical beauty without wanting to have sex with the thing of beauty same as it's apparently wrong to admire physical prowess without offending those that lack such prowess.Do you even understand the conversation or are you basing your responses on my tidbit? Apparently your missing the whole conversation that has happened around these two statements of mine.

When do you take fantasy to far? When do you sit there and say "So, how does this protect my character?" You have a steel bikini that only covers a small portion of the female body and we are supposed to throw reality with it? Yet again, we are supposed to ignore the over exposure of vital spots of the body to satisfy fashion? No. Other games have gone down this path and have suffered for it. This throw out reality cause I want my female character to be over sexualized in a bikini. I do not want this game to go down the path that Scarlet Blade did. There's a difference between being sexualized and being idealized. The dress is metaphor. Our character's outfits figuratively represent who they are, and that is all they need to do, because none of it is real. Real or not, that does not matter and has nothing to do with the point. The word idealized does not mean what you think it does. For one it is a general terminology. Based off of the word idea. Point blank,if you think that a woman in high heels and a steel bikini fighting on a battlefield is not sexual in any way then you are either mentally lacking or just in pure denial of facts. For one, unless your world is blatantly to the point to which even outright nudity is safe from sharp objects, this would never happen. ... Did you read my post? Yes...and? Because everything you're saying is contradicted by what I wrote in my original post, and yours don't follow a coherent theme of any sort. It looks like you're just writing things to be contrarian. BTW, for all of you guys debating realism in this game: Have you seen my elementalist lately? Quite frankly, all of this discussion about dodging bullets and practicality is moot when half of the light armored players in the game are already running around in a wool dress with no front. It's funny that now you come back to talk kitten after I have let it go. First off, you're first post did not make a point. It told us how you view about bikini's in the game. Your second post in response to mine was basically the incorrect use of the word idealized. To say that you want your character how you envision it. Third is nothing more than a simple question. You latest and last response is nothing more than you coming after the fact, though I never gave up my opinion and still do not want bikinis in the game, to repeat what has already been said on cloth armor, another repeat about those being shot while wearing light armor, and a sad insult thrown my way about how I somehow missed your point. It's surprising to hear that when, again, you never made a point in your first post...all you did was post your feelings about bikini's. I wonder how it is that others were able to debate my stance with full understanding of what I said but after I had decided to bow out of the conversation you come back to "reiterate" their points. The only reason why the cloth argument is valid is only because of the game mechanics. No one would play light armor classes if they could not stand up to the hits given out. So ArenaNet and every other MMO producer/developer makes the mechanics of the game that cloth has more armor value to it than it should have. That is the only thing keeping your belief on solid ground. In the end, your the type of person who seems to believe that vampires sparkle. That is a lot of words dedicated just to complaining. For you see, when I say something like And then you say It means that you don't care enough to pay attention to what I wrote. Because otherwise, you'd know what I mean and what I am saying, or you'd at least have the decency to respect it. This isn't the only time you did it, either. Case "B", both you. Then follow it up with: Repeated in many more places. Do you get what this says when you do this? You have substituted reason with indignation, and are operating under the impression that if you're stubborn enough, you'll "win." You throw around words like "facts" and "realism," then readily abandon them when they don't suit you. You aren't right, you've just cultivated an immunity to rebuttal. Declaring yourself "done" doesn't mean anything, because everyone is free to respond to anything you said in their own time.Let's play with words then. For one, your idealogy that a women in a bikini or some sort of sexy outfit is "strong" is a backward belief. That, somehow, a strong woman is only based off of how much skin she shows. Not only is that false but also degrading to a woman's strength somehow being based on T&A. A woman can be beautiful but to solely base her being on that beauty makes her an object. More to women than just their bodies. Whether or not you agree with my "realism" opinion towards bikinis in the game you ignore the statements that I have stated. Let me repeat them, this is a game but as such this game meets a certain amount of realism to make it believable. You take damage when you get hit by an enemy, when you fall, etc. If this game decided that there should not be any such iota of realism to it then the game really would not be as fun. The reality of the game would be so messed up to where it would not make sense. Now, you may be ok with reality in this game to allow a bikini to afford the same protection similar to whatever armor class it is tailored towards. However, I don't buy into it. Your argument (and others) towards cloth armor is only held up by the game mechanics. Since I have no control over the mechanics I cannot change the validity of the standard of them. So if ArenaNet decided to place bikinis in the game then people would be free to use them in however way they wish. Again, that's my opinion on it. But it seems like you cannot or refuse to understand it since you state that I am somehow complaining or not paying attention to you. Not only that but also twisting my sentence and taking it out of context. As with my statement "real or not..." It seems you purposely skew it to fit into what you want it to be and ignore what it was used for in response. You "ask" me to have decency to what you have said but have already insulted before. If I do the same would you respect me? I doubt it. You also have a lot to learn as to what indignation is. Since I have met most of your comments with either stating/repeating my opinion or clarifying what you were talking about and the understanding of your position with maybe a smidgeon of insult you have yet to meet indignation. For one, it means "anger or annoyance provoked by what is perceived as unfair treatment." Since, you have no authority over me in any way how would I be indignant? Let alone that we are discussing something in which we both have no control over and if ArenaNet decided to place bikinis in the game it would not effect me in any way..and in the end not matter. Also your belief in stubborn is skewed as well. My opinion on whether or not bikinis belong into the game is just that...an opinion. There are no facts or falsehoods to it. Just an opinion. To say that I am stubborn about it is just downright idiotic. It's an opinion...get over it. I also have not abandoned anything I have stated. Accusing someone of something without facts is not a good thing. I also have yet to hear a rebuttal from you. The only one you have used is one that was already stated before...but you decided to use as your own somehow. Also, I did not say I was "done" and left the conversation with the belief that because I left I had somehow won the debate. Again, I have the fortitude to know that, despite my opinion, the game mechanics works how the developers make it to work and if they want bikinis in the game they will program it to work. Anyone can respond however they wish to. But I can note how ironic it is for someone to respond with a line already stated after the fact that I had apparently left the conversation. Because that is what you have done. You took some one else's work and plagiarized it as your own. All in an effort for what? The last word? Over an opinion that,in the end, doesn't matter to my game play at all? Kind of petty to be honest.

Alright let's try to handle the realism versus fantasy factor towards armor. Set of facts to lay down. Plate armor is stronger than cloth and leather. Whether by game or real life standards. So with that comes the fact that if plate armor could deflect or minimize the damage of an arrow then the leather and cloth armor would be inherently worse. The thing is now on cloth armor. Would the argument be null and void because cloth armor, no matter by full coverage of the body or not, would not stop an arrow. But now we get into fantasy logic. The people who predominantly wore cloth armor used magic/spells of various nature. So would they not have spells that helped them in the armor department? You do have in game certain cloth armor that has toughness and vitality (or whatever else stat that adds to defense) and can add insignias to add to the defense. It probably does not put it on par with plate armor defense. In the end, Guild Wars 2 is a world created by a group of people who set what is and isn't. I have absolutely no say in the end if they create a bikini armor set. I am not happy nor comfortable with it but that does not give me the right to condemn those who may enjoy it. It's wrong on so many levels to me. But each person plays this game for their own reasons and I have no right to dictate how a person plays. I don't think AreanNet should put something like this in but it is their game.