Dantheman.3589

Ranger is arguably the best side node class rn- it has a super strong tanky or hybrid core build with menders amulet, an ok decap build and a few soulbeast builds that can function highly well

Engineer nerfs- check, was S teir on every teir listGuard nerfs- check, was beyond over performing in stronghold. You could literally kill opponents and door breakers at the same time. Perfect patch

Ranger a guardian counter- omegalul

Only one they need to bring back imo is magi amulet- simply becuz we can have focus designated supports and not this hybrid offensive menders amulet with only a Rez utility to carry the lack of support in the spec.

Do you have a link to that p/p condi DD build? Cant find any info on that. Uhh I think it’s on valluns YouTube. It probably Sa mid-mid-top Trickery bot-top-mid/bot and daredevil mid/mid/bot with withdraw, shadowstep, smokescreen and a venom + thief’s guild

Nope. Necro doesn’t even need to take Lich form to be S teir.

This is more like a question than a statement (as the total number of 3v3 matches I played is 4), but shouldn't builds be working in teamcomps in this format? Rating the classes on their own doesn't seem to make as much sense here. You can take 3 seemingly bad/nonviable builds and make a decent combo with them. Balanced comp is a good thing and you could literally take a meta comp and do things like replace a necro with a condi ranger or even something like a condi thief and still pump maybe even up to legend. In fact there such an insane amount of comps that are literally the same thing that I can guarantee that knowing about the class will help. If 2 teams of similar skill and similar comp go against each other the one with better scores should win. Also it is useful for basically your average joe in an lfg group- because if they slap together a team of all A or B + classes with viable builds than the success rate will assuredly be better than a random lfg of lower tier builds ex. An all silver skill level team of necros will probably do better than a team of all silver level thief’s in climbing ranked and I think anyone’s that’s climbed 3 would probably agree with that.

I updated the ranger rating due to a disparity between the condi builds and more bursty power builds

We’ve already had seasons of 2s and 3s, of which I was legend rated in(surprised myself too), which had clear defined metas. Ofc there’s meme stuff that can work also but Imo it is very defined- more so than 5v5 because you don’t have to worry about multiple nodes on a map. lol if you think ranked will developpe anything for pvp you are wrong, a single world tournament has speeded up faster development for pvp then 2 years of conquest ranked season and meta really has been defined by pretty much mAT only as well. ranked season is casual at best. and 2s and 3s are very different comp set up, not even the same thing. you may as well say 1v1 and 2v2 is the same thing lol.Ok mr.anarchy. Disagree with list sure why not, but it’s imo 100% incorrect to say that 3v3 is underdeveloped.

We’ve already had seasons of 2s and 3s, of which I was legend rated in(surprised myself too), which had clear defined metas. Ofc there’s meme stuff that can work also but Imo it is very defined- more so than 5v5 because you don’t have to worry about multiple nodes on a map.

Both got nerfed to oblivion which also eliminated the #1 threat, in fact the only threat to necro in legend+ skill rating besides maybe rev which would often be with an engi or guard, to necro which was already at least close to S teir making it definitely S now.

Had two groups, the Necro got rekt first always. Necro was a waste.I disagree with RangerI agree with Warrior and ElementalistGuardian would be an AMesmer I agree, can be an A if nobody pressuresThief? I feel like Daredevil would be good, but havent seen any Warrior I agree and anyone else who can CC you for 3+ seconds (engineer and mesmer?) is very strong especially if all 3 pouncing on you too. Since all 3 on you or stacked usually, That torment Revenant becomes super useful too. Necro is insanely op so that cannot change. Guard was nerfed to not viable in 5s but works in 3s and engi got big nerfs too. Ranger used to be ok in 3s cuz they could 1 shot but now they won’t and just have condi builds that are just worse than not even the strongest necro builds. Only thing I’d be willing to change is ranger to a C+, but I didn’t do that because there’s not a way to make it work even as good as Mesmer in high elo, aka legend rated +.

For some of them yeah. Heal warrior is obvious. Necro has too many builds rn to list. Rev has condi and renegade builds and some off meta ones that all work. Ele is obviously tempest at the top but some cc builds too. Engineer is explosives holo + scrapper(these would be at least A+, but got nerfed). Guardian is trapper dh + scattered burn/support builds (symbol guard is very dead). Mesmer is power/condi mirage and maybe chrono, this in some ppls hands is very good but in most not so I have it as C++. Ranger is basically condi builds and occasional 1shot builds or power builds, these work but are mediocre at best. Thief only really works as condi, staff bunker or DE but is still fairly terribad

S-S+ - NecroA+ - WarriorA - RevA— - EleB+ - EngineerB - GuardianC++ - MesmerC+/D+ - Ranger(Condi bunkers/ burst builds respectively)F - Thief Based on meta specs and in some cases the average of the viable builds per class.

I would say either go a double staff power/bunker thief or a condi thief. The condi thief could actually have a decent amount of build variety- normal p/d core or condi s/d DrD or probably what’s I’d recommend the condi blind spam p/p daredevil w/ bound.

I’ll just say one thing. Any build that involved symbols is instantly dead because of the change, where it was only out performing other builds as a side noder due to the fact that the damage was better, not even sustain- many builds had monster sustain and disengage compared to guard. So if the damage is the only thing over performing just tweak those symbol modifiers and the damage for the accelerated burns. Now it will just mechanically awkward and even less viable than it is now.

There’s a difference between the symbol trait and grenades, if you are in th aoe for guard u take all the damage whilst for grenades it’s based on how many hit. That imo is a major difference between the 2, but let’s be honest the only thing we needed to balance symbol guard was a reduction in both(yes I am saying both) power damage modifiers for symbols and a reduction of damage for burns applied via the decreased burn cd for symbols.But I don’t wanna talk dooms day scenarios so let’s see what anet has in mind for the class

Make it top 50 imo. Also the current titles are the lamest thing in the world. I think if anyone reps them ppl would make fun of them.

Claiming all top stats for is being toxic is complete gibberish. I know some ppl, even some top teir players, say stats don’t actually matter. But stats matter a lot and to say otherwise, while it can be true in some cases, is just not true. Saying remove stats is like asking us to remove half of pvp and keep playing it.Removing top stats is usually just the “anarchist” front for ppl who just don’t care about the match.

Condi renegade is low key really good

Rip - he made a killer February patch

I wouldn’t call core rev good at all. Core thief is actually pretty ehh, it just gets carried by how brain dead shadow arts + condi pistols are.Core specs like core guard and ranger are like kings of core rn and thats becuz the traitline synergy is all there between 2-3 traitlines while no other class can pull that as well. Core necro almost has the trait synergy, it’s just op though so it works out.

By "meta specs" you maybe referring to the PvE "optimal builds" which people are running in raids and fractals? Those ones with Guardians with 12K HP playing against punching bag NPCs with dismal A.I. and entirely predictable patterns? Those builds don't work in PvP. Symbolbran uses mender: low crit chance with 0 ferocity: mediocre dps. It's role is mainly support/tank (and they aren't even the best at that, currently), with most of the traits and skills devoted to make the healings from aegis and pulses to work (which barely do after all the nerfs). On the other hand, if you run Honor 1,3,2, and Virtues 1,2,1 replacing Zeal and wielding carrion you get better burst than physical based symbol Guardians: despite the lower physical damage you'll proc burns like crazy, and cleans doesn't matter that much since you're constantly re-aplying the burns. Works better with core and DH, of course: Firebrand braces too many things for his own good. So your meme build is better than core symbol guard, which is probably by far the best side noder for ranked? FYI the meta symbol guard build you are talking about uses Sage amulet, and is, SURPRISE, a hybrid relying on burn procs from symbols and shattered aegis, retal, and a bit of power damage in between. Yeah no sages is already proven as a meme and no one is fooled since menders has been the way to play symbols since core.> @Megametzler.5729 said: By "meta specs" you maybe referring to the PvE "optimal builds" which people are running in raids and fractals? Those ones with Guardians with 12K HP playing against punching bag NPCs with dismal A.I. and entirely predictable patterns? Those builds don't work in PvP. Symbolbran uses mender: low crit chance with 0 ferocity: mediocre dps. It's role is mainly support/tank (and they aren't even the best at that, currently), with most of the traits and skills devoted to make the healings from aegis and pulses to work (which barely do after all the nerfs). On the other hand, if you run Honor 1,3,2, and Virtues 1,2,1 replacing Zeal and wielding carrion you get better burst than physical based symbol Guardians: despite the lower physical damage you'll proc burns like crazy, and cleans doesn't matter that much since you're constantly re-aplying the burns. Works better with core and DH, of course: Firebrand braces too many things for his own good. So your meme build is better than core symbol guard, which is probably by far the best side noder for ranked? FYI the meta symbol guard build you are talking about uses Sage amulet, and is, SURPRISE, a hybrid relying on burn procs from symbols and shattered aegis, retal, and a bit of power damage in between. Most people I encounter use mender's amulet though. I suppose burn procs don't do enough without cover conditions at some level and the additional sustain makes more than up for it. €: On topic, there are many many builds able to do much more damage in these cases. It is simply unrealistic. Most ppl do play menders, becuz it is and has been the meta.> @ollbirtan.2915 said: By "meta specs" you maybe referring to the PvE "optimal builds" which people are running in raids and fractals? Those ones with Guardians with 12K HP playing against punching bag NPCs with dismal A.I. and entirely predictable patterns? Those builds don't work in PvP. Symbolbran uses mender: low crit chance with 0 ferocity: mediocre dps. It's role is mainly support/tank (and they aren't even the best at that, currently), with most of the traits and skills devoted to make the healings from aegis and pulses to work (which barely do after all the nerfs). On the other hand, if you run Honor 1,3,2, and Virtues 1,2,1 replacing Zeal and wielding carrion you get better burst than physical based symbol Guardians: despite the lower physical damage you'll proc burns like crazy, and cleans doesn't matter that much since you're constantly re-aplying the burns. Works better with core and DH, of course: Firebrand braces too many things for his own good. So your meme build is better than core symbol guard, which is probably by far the best side noder for ranked? FYI the meta symbol guard build you are talking about uses Sage amulet, and is, SURPRISE, a hybrid relying on burn procs from symbols and shattered aegis, retal, and a bit of power damage in between. Most people I encounter use mender's amulet though. I suppose burn procs don't do enough without cover conditions at some level and the additional sustain makes more than up for it. €: On topic, there are many many builds able to do much more damage in these cases. It is simply unrealistic. Mender's amulet doesn't dish out more damage. It's a little bit more tankier, but Sage is still better. Hybrid is the only way for guardian right now. Also, the role of symbol core guard is mostly side noder, which it performs quite well up until plat 1 ~2.More on the topic of OP's build --- suggest to swap traits around, because your current version isn't really good at anything._Edit_As someone already mentioned, you really need Valor line to be able to function. Sage is absolutely Garbo and non-viable as I stated before. Menders core guard has been probably the most dominant side noder in ranked for months. I find it embarrassing that you are pointing out your meme build as good for plat1-2 omegalul > @Megametzler.5729 said: By "meta specs" you maybe referring to the PvE "optimal builds" which people are running in raids and fractals? Those ones with Guardians with 12K HP playing against punching bag NPCs with dismal A.I. and entirely predictable patterns? Those builds don't work in PvP. Symbolbran uses mender: low crit chance with 0 ferocity: mediocre dps. It's role is mainly support/tank (and they aren't even the best at that, currently), with most of the traits and skills devoted to make the healings from aegis and pulses to work (which barely do after all the nerfs). On the other hand, if you run Honor 1,3,2, and Virtues 1,2,1 replacing Zeal and wielding carrion you get better burst than physical based symbol Guardians: despite the lower physical damage you'll proc burns like crazy, and cleans doesn't matter that much since you're constantly re-aplying the burns. Works better with core and DH, of course: Firebrand braces too many things for his own good. So your meme build is better than core symbol guard, which is probably by far the best side noder for ranked? FYI the meta symbol guard build you are talking about uses Sage amulet, and is, SURPRISE, a hybrid relying on burn procs from symbols and shattered aegis, retal, and a bit of power damage in between. Most people I encounter use mender's amulet though. I suppose burn procs don't do enough without cover conditions at some level and the additional sustain makes more than up for it. €: On topic, there are many many builds able to do much more damage in these cases. It is simply unrealistic. Mender's amulet doesn't dish out more damage. It's a little bit more tankier, but Sage is still better. Hybrid is the only way for guardian right now. Also, the role of symbol core guard is mostly side noder, which it performs quite well up until plat 1 ~2. > (...) No no, mender's does not dish out more damage. But when those single stacks of burn do get cleansed quickly? Then it actually might. The main advantage, as you say, is significantly more sustain of course. I guess it is dependant on the compositions, if you might get +1ed more often, if you might have to get into team fights, which enemies you have on sides and stuff. Both seem to be viable up to average plat though in my experience (my statistics about seeing more mender's is surely not empirically relevant, I admit). Single stacks of burning are cleansed so fast that sage ends up with half the damage and has half the sustain + takes traits that are x3 worse than normal ones. The only cases where burning is good if ppl are constantly running away from you, but that is not an important thing to spec for as a side noder. It’s like telling me that as a side noder rn I need to make sure my match up into thief is good. sage takes the exact same traits as menders, no i dunno how u come up with half dmg, sustain and takes traits that are 3x worseaeon who used sage in last matthere is no reason to not use sage against holos, renegades, scrappers which can't really cleanse a burn stack every 2 secondslots more dmg and only loses like 10% healThe sage build I’ve seen posted takes 3 of the most important traits as different ones and also takes different utilities. The sage build is a mediocre version of symbol guard, there is a reason why it’s literally laughed at.

I’d say yes we should give stronghold a chance, but I don’t think it needs much of a rework at all, maybe just more maps. Also not sure how much effort I would personally wanna put into the game since 1.) I’m getting bored of it 2.) becuz of general toxicity level of a lot of players

By "meta specs" you maybe referring to the PvE "optimal builds" which people are running in raids and fractals? Those ones with Guardians with 12K HP playing against punching bag NPCs with dismal A.I. and entirely predictable patterns? Those builds don't work in PvP. Symbolbran uses mender: low crit chance with 0 ferocity: mediocre dps. It's role is mainly support/tank (and they aren't even the best at that, currently), with most of the traits and skills devoted to make the healings from aegis and pulses to work (which barely do after all the nerfs). On the other hand, if you run Honor 1,3,2, and Virtues 1,2,1 replacing Zeal and wielding carrion you get better burst than physical based symbol Guardians: despite the lower physical damage you'll proc burns like crazy, and cleans doesn't matter that much since you're constantly re-aplying the burns. Works better with core and DH, of course: Firebrand braces too many things for his own good. So your meme build is better than core symbol guard, which is probably by far the best side noder for ranked? FYI the meta symbol guard build you are talking about uses Sage amulet, and is, SURPRISE, a hybrid relying on burn procs from symbols and shattered aegis, retal, and a bit of power damage in between. Yeah no sages is already proven as a meme and no one is fooled since menders has been the way to play symbols since core.> @Megametzler.5729 said: By "meta specs" you maybe referring to the PvE "optimal builds" which people are running in raids and fractals? Those ones with Guardians with 12K HP playing against punching bag NPCs with dismal A.I. and entirely predictable patterns? Those builds don't work in PvP. Symbolbran uses mender: low crit chance with 0 ferocity: mediocre dps. It's role is mainly support/tank (and they aren't even the best at that, currently), with most of the traits and skills devoted to make the healings from aegis and pulses to work (which barely do after all the nerfs). On the other hand, if you run Honor 1,3,2, and Virtues 1,2,1 replacing Zeal and wielding carrion you get better burst than physical based symbol Guardians: despite the lower physical damage you'll proc burns like crazy, and cleans doesn't matter that much since you're constantly re-aplying the burns. Works better with core and DH, of course: Firebrand braces too many things for his own good. So your meme build is better than core symbol guard, which is probably by far the best side noder for ranked? FYI the meta symbol guard build you are talking about uses Sage amulet, and is, SURPRISE, a hybrid relying on burn procs from symbols and shattered aegis, retal, and a bit of power damage in between. Most people I encounter use mender's amulet though. I suppose burn procs don't do enough without cover conditions at some level and the additional sustain makes more than up for it. €: On topic, there are many many builds able to do much more damage in these cases. It is simply unrealistic.Most ppl do play menders, becuz it is and has been the meta.> @ollbirtan.2915 said: By "meta specs" you maybe referring to the PvE "optimal builds" which people are running in raids and fractals? Those ones with Guardians with 12K HP playing against punching bag NPCs with dismal A.I. and entirely predictable patterns? Those builds don't work in PvP. Symbolbran uses mender: low crit chance with 0 ferocity: mediocre dps. It's role is mainly support/tank (and they aren't even the best at that, currently), with most of the traits and skills devoted to make the healings from aegis and pulses to work (which barely do after all the nerfs). On the other hand, if you run Honor 1,3,2, and Virtues 1,2,1 replacing Zeal and wielding carrion you get better burst than physical based symbol Guardians: despite the lower physical damage you'll proc burns like crazy, and cleans doesn't matter that much since you're constantly re-aplying the burns. Works better with core and DH, of course: Firebrand braces too many things for his own good. So your meme build is better than core symbol guard, which is probably by far the best side noder for ranked? FYI the meta symbol guard build you are talking about uses Sage amulet, and is, SURPRISE, a hybrid relying on burn procs from symbols and shattered aegis, retal, and a bit of power damage in between. Most people I encounter use mender's amulet though. I suppose burn procs don't do enough without cover conditions at some level and the additional sustain makes more than up for it. €: On topic, there are many many builds able to do much more damage in these cases. It is simply unrealistic. Mender's amulet doesn't dish out more damage. It's a little bit more tankier, but Sage is still better. Hybrid is the only way for guardian right now. Also, the role of symbol core guard is mostly side noder, which it performs quite well up until plat 1 ~2.More on the topic of OP's build --- suggest to swap traits around, because your current version isn't really good at anything._Edit_As someone already mentioned, you really need Valor line to be able to function. Sage is absolutely Garbo and non-viable as I stated before. Menders core guard has been probably the most dominant side noder in ranked for months. I find it embarrassing that you are pointing out your meme build as good for plat1-2 omegalul > @Megametzler.5729 said: By "meta specs" you maybe referring to the PvE "optimal builds" which people are running in raids and fractals? Those ones with Guardians with 12K HP playing against punching bag NPCs with dismal A.I. and entirely predictable patterns? Those builds don't work in PvP. Symbolbran uses mender: low crit chance with 0 ferocity: mediocre dps. It's role is mainly support/tank (and they aren't even the best at that, currently), with most of the traits and skills devoted to make the healings from aegis and pulses to work (which barely do after all the nerfs). On the other hand, if you run Honor 1,3,2, and Virtues 1,2,1 replacing Zeal and wielding carrion you get better burst than physical based symbol Guardians: despite the lower physical damage you'll proc burns like crazy, and cleans doesn't matter that much since you're constantly re-aplying the burns. Works better with core and DH, of course: Firebrand braces too many things for his own good. So your meme build is better than core symbol guard, which is probably by far the best side noder for ranked? FYI the meta symbol guard build you are talking about uses Sage amulet, and is, SURPRISE, a hybrid relying on burn procs from symbols and shattered aegis, retal, and a bit of power damage in between. Most people I encounter use mender's amulet though. I suppose burn procs don't do enough without cover conditions at some level and the additional sustain makes more than up for it. €: On topic, there are many many builds able to do much more damage in these cases. It is simply unrealistic. Mender's amulet doesn't dish out more damage. It's a little bit more tankier, but Sage is still better. Hybrid is the only way for guardian right now. Also, the role of symbol core guard is mostly side noder, which it performs quite well up until plat 1 ~2. > (...) No no, mender's does not dish out more damage. But when those single stacks of burn do get cleansed quickly? Then it actually might. The main advantage, as you say, is significantly more sustain of course. I guess it is dependant on the compositions, if you might get +1ed more often, if you might have to get into team fights, which enemies you have on sides and stuff. Both seem to be viable up to average plat though in my experience (my statistics about seeing more mender's is surely not empirically relevant, I admit).Single stacks of burning are cleansed so fast that sage ends up with half the damage and has half the sustain + takes traits that are x3 worse than normal ones. The only cases where burning is good if ppl are constantly running away from you, but that is not an important thing to spec for as a side noder. It’s like telling me that as a side noder rn I need to make sure my match up into thief is good.