Dantheman.3589

Not even close

Soulbeast isn’t played besides memeing ranked. If u did bring to an at you might get a meme kill in a tempest but u won’t do much else. Condi rev is still ez but would be worse than scrapper core ranger etc. Holo is degenerate for sure

You could give ranger a gun or something but it’ll not be healthy

Core, scrapper and holo. Doesn’t matter the variation becuz all they do is knockback with about x8 the knockback of other side noders.

Yes, thief damage is a huge problem. The fact they can run zerker and still have 15k hp due to daredevil is one of the issues. Its not, its quite low. I have been playing core Engineer and only core engineer for about a year now. I know why thief is good, but its the same thing its always been. Thief is not "the best class next to holo" (especially because Scrapper is arguably better than Holo as is). Thief is a mandatory 1-of due to its superior mobility that makes up for its inferior everything else. But you never want more than one thief on your team, else you will lose. Does that sound like a best class to you? The truth is that Thieves damage is pretty pathetic. Its enough to win +1s, but you need very little to win +1s. If you compared it to any other roamer, every single one blows thief out of the water. Same with defense, same with CC, same with utility. But it doesnt matter because Thief gets to the +1s fast than anyone else. Thats also why, if you took away shortbow 5, thief would instantly become unplayable. Because suddenly thief doesnt get to them faster than anyone else. And then its inferior everything else just makes it trash tier.Is that why legendary rated streamers have been calling thief “the most busted ranked carry next to holo”. This obsession over shortbow 5 is incredibly bizarre too, but u also think thief’s team fight with short bow and swap to dp to decap. Yes, the obsession with the one weapon skill all theif mains have known for year defines their class and is literally the only reason it functions is "bizarre". Also, why are you just saying a simple truth as if its supposed to mean anything? No that skill does not define the class neither does the short bow weapon it’s self. What thief mains say about shortbow is that it’s mandatory- saying just 1 skill in a mandatory weapon defines the class is a huge falsification. Considering have a weapon besides short bow is also mandatory means that short bow it’s self doesn’t define thief let alone 1 skill. Again there are no high rated thief’s that I’ve ever seen that say that nor anyone on metabattle or on streams. Most would say that’s actually bizarre in my experience. Of course it defines the class, and by extension so does shortbow. Now you mightve tuned out when people were discussing it, but thieves say that its mandatory because of shortbow 5, and shortbow is the reason thief is viable. The second weapon is honestly not that important. Thats why thieves change their main weapon between builds, change everything around, but one thing stays unchanged always. Shortbow is the second weapon you use, and shortbow 5 is why youre viable. Also many high rated thieves have said this multiple times, and metabattle says that thief is picked primarily for its insane mobility, which is synonymous with shortbow 5. No, what people would say is bizarre, is acting like shortbow 5 isnt the defining aspect of thief. What youre doing right now. But just for fun, try the following: Play thief without ever using shortbow 5. You can keep shortbow if you want, but no shortbow 5. And do it in a MAT to ensure that the competition is good. See how effective you will be. Spoiler: Youll be useless. There is a reason why Thief was the worst class in 2v2/3v3, and that reason is because shortbow 5, their defining skill, isnt useful in it. No there are no high rated thief’s that say that. Metabattle does not say it either, in fact the builds are named after the main hand weapon which isn’t shortbow becuz short now is a utility weapon not the offensive one that defines the build. The metabattle moderator has said before that short bow mandatory just like I said and like every high rated thief says. Maybe u got some random person on the forum to agree with you but no there are no high rated thief’s that say and I’m telling you that as probably the highest rated thief in this discussion at least on NA since I don’t know everyone here from Eu Ok now I am convinced you are just hard trolling here. Because I cant believe that even you would believe the nonsense youre writing here. Everyone says it (except you apparently). The builds arent named after shortbow because every build uses shortbow. Youd just have 4 thief builds called "shortbow thief" in that case. You dont see Ranger builds named after GS because every build uses GS, do you? Yes, shortbow is a utility weapon, but its that utility weapon that defines the entire class. Thief is picked because it moves faster than everyone else. It moves faster than everyone else because of shortbow 5. Thief is picked because of shortbow 5. The rest changes and doesnt really matter. Thief stays the same. A class defined by shortbow 5. If that’s what everyone says than get 1 high rated thief in here to agree. But no one would would they? No where on metabattle did it say that. No one who rates a build says “it doesn’t matter what weapon you take as long as you have short bow it’s meta”. There has been like 1 shortbow meta, never since than. Rn it’s a dp DrD meta. Not a short bow stealth meta. Of course not, but lets take a look at the flipside. "It doesn't matter what weapon you take, as long as you dont have shortbow, you will be useless". I think even you will have trouble saying that this isnt the undeniable truth. And then, if youre useless if you dont have a specific weapon (and also useless if you dont use a specific skill on that specific weapon), Id call that pretty defining. Thats what everyone says. Im not sure if youre trolling or trying to use semantical tricks to cover up your mistake, but either way, youre wrong. No what that is is backwards logic. That’s why no thief main with a brain says that. Trolling it is then. No, its not "backwards logic", its just logic. What defines a class? The things it cannot go without. The things that make it at all viable. Thief is viable only with shortbow. The rest of the class changes, you can go for different traitlines, different weapons, different gear and runes. But you cannot go without shortbow 5. Thats why it defines thief. And thats why every thief main with a brain says that shortbow 5 defines thief. Well, every one that isnt trolling, I suppose. Also you have still not answered the SA question. If SA lost its damage traits and had them replaced with very strong defensive traits. Would thieves still pick SA? Go on. That’s definitely backwards logic. Shortbow is mandatory for most builds so why would u go without shortbow 5. You don’t take short bow 5 you take an offensive weapon and short bow as an offhand. That why any thief main with a brain says short bow is mandatory on builds like DP DRD and no thief main with a brain or in high elo has ever said shortbow 5 defines thief Why is shortbow mandatory? Youre so close to realising why youre wrong, but it seems you just dont take that last step. So answer me, why is shortbow mandatory? And if SA lost its damage traits, would it still be picked? Go on. Answer.Your right I’ll just “listen to my self”- a thief main. From now on no more trolls on forums.

Yes, thief damage is a huge problem. The fact they can run zerker and still have 15k hp due to daredevil is one of the issues. Its not, its quite low. I have been playing core Engineer and only core engineer for about a year now. I know why thief is good, but its the same thing its always been. Thief is not "the best class next to holo" (especially because Scrapper is arguably better than Holo as is). Thief is a mandatory 1-of due to its superior mobility that makes up for its inferior everything else. But you never want more than one thief on your team, else you will lose. Does that sound like a best class to you? The truth is that Thieves damage is pretty pathetic. Its enough to win +1s, but you need very little to win +1s. If you compared it to any other roamer, every single one blows thief out of the water. Same with defense, same with CC, same with utility. But it doesnt matter because Thief gets to the +1s fast than anyone else. Thats also why, if you took away shortbow 5, thief would instantly become unplayable. Because suddenly thief doesnt get to them faster than anyone else. And then its inferior everything else just makes it trash tier.Is that why legendary rated streamers have been calling thief “the most busted ranked carry next to holo”. This obsession over shortbow 5 is incredibly bizarre too, but u also think thief’s team fight with short bow and swap to dp to decap. Yes, the obsession with the one weapon skill all theif mains have known for year defines their class and is literally the only reason it functions is "bizarre". Also, why are you just saying a simple truth as if its supposed to mean anything? No that skill does not define the class neither does the short bow weapon it’s self. What thief mains say about shortbow is that it’s mandatory- saying just 1 skill in a mandatory weapon defines the class is a huge falsification. Considering have a weapon besides short bow is also mandatory means that short bow it’s self doesn’t define thief let alone 1 skill. Again there are no high rated thief’s that I’ve ever seen that say that nor anyone on metabattle or on streams. Most would say that’s actually bizarre in my experience. Of course it defines the class, and by extension so does shortbow. Now you mightve tuned out when people were discussing it, but thieves say that its mandatory because of shortbow 5, and shortbow is the reason thief is viable. The second weapon is honestly not that important. Thats why thieves change their main weapon between builds, change everything around, but one thing stays unchanged always. Shortbow is the second weapon you use, and shortbow 5 is why youre viable. Also many high rated thieves have said this multiple times, and metabattle says that thief is picked primarily for its insane mobility, which is synonymous with shortbow 5. No, what people would say is bizarre, is acting like shortbow 5 isnt the defining aspect of thief. What youre doing right now. But just for fun, try the following: Play thief without ever using shortbow 5. You can keep shortbow if you want, but no shortbow 5. And do it in a MAT to ensure that the competition is good. See how effective you will be. Spoiler: Youll be useless. There is a reason why Thief was the worst class in 2v2/3v3, and that reason is because shortbow 5, their defining skill, isnt useful in it. No there are no high rated thief’s that say that. Metabattle does not say it either, in fact the builds are named after the main hand weapon which isn’t shortbow becuz short now is a utility weapon not the offensive one that defines the build. The metabattle moderator has said before that short bow mandatory just like I said and like every high rated thief says. Maybe u got some random person on the forum to agree with you but no there are no high rated thief’s that say and I’m telling you that as probably the highest rated thief in this discussion at least on NA since I don’t know everyone here from Eu Ok now I am convinced you are just hard trolling here. Because I cant believe that even you would believe the nonsense youre writing here. Everyone says it (except you apparently). The builds arent named after shortbow because every build uses shortbow. Youd just have 4 thief builds called "shortbow thief" in that case. You dont see Ranger builds named after GS because every build uses GS, do you? Yes, shortbow is a utility weapon, but its that utility weapon that defines the entire class. Thief is picked because it moves faster than everyone else. It moves faster than everyone else because of shortbow 5. Thief is picked because of shortbow 5. The rest changes and doesnt really matter. Thief stays the same. A class defined by shortbow 5. If that’s what everyone says than get 1 high rated thief in here to agree. But no one would would they? No where on metabattle did it say that. No one who rates a build says “it doesn’t matter what weapon you take as long as you have short bow it’s meta”. There has been like 1 shortbow meta, never since than. Rn it’s a dp DrD meta. Not a short bow stealth meta. Of course not, but lets take a look at the flipside. "It doesn't matter what weapon you take, as long as you dont have shortbow, you will be useless". I think even you will have trouble saying that this isnt the undeniable truth. And then, if youre useless if you dont have a specific weapon (and also useless if you dont use a specific skill on that specific weapon), Id call that pretty defining. Thats what everyone says. Im not sure if youre trolling or trying to use semantical tricks to cover up your mistake, but either way, youre wrong. No what that is is backwards logic. That’s why no thief main with a brain says that. Trolling it is then. No, its not "backwards logic", its just logic. What defines a class? The things it cannot go without. The things that make it at all viable. Thief is viable only with shortbow. The rest of the class changes, you can go for different traitlines, different weapons, different gear and runes. But you cannot go without shortbow 5. Thats why it defines thief. And thats why every thief main with a brain says that shortbow 5 defines thief. Well, every one that isnt trolling, I suppose. Also you have still not answered the SA question. If SA lost its damage traits and had them replaced with very strong defensive traits. Would thieves still pick SA? Go on.That’s definitely backwards logic. Shortbow is mandatory for most builds so why would u go without shortbow 5. You don’t take short bow 5 you take an offensive weapon and short bow as an offhand. That why any thief main with a brain says short bow is mandatory on builds like DP DRD and no thief main with a brain or in high elo has ever said shortbow 5 defines thief

Yes, thief damage is a huge problem. The fact they can run zerker and still have 15k hp due to daredevil is one of the issues. Its not, its quite low. I have been playing core Engineer and only core engineer for about a year now. I know why thief is good, but its the same thing its always been. Thief is not "the best class next to holo" (especially because Scrapper is arguably better than Holo as is). Thief is a mandatory 1-of due to its superior mobility that makes up for its inferior everything else. But you never want more than one thief on your team, else you will lose. Does that sound like a best class to you? The truth is that Thieves damage is pretty pathetic. Its enough to win +1s, but you need very little to win +1s. If you compared it to any other roamer, every single one blows thief out of the water. Same with defense, same with CC, same with utility. But it doesnt matter because Thief gets to the +1s fast than anyone else. Thats also why, if you took away shortbow 5, thief would instantly become unplayable. Because suddenly thief doesnt get to them faster than anyone else. And then its inferior everything else just makes it trash tier.Is that why legendary rated streamers have been calling thief “the most busted ranked carry next to holo”. This obsession over shortbow 5 is incredibly bizarre too, but u also think thief’s team fight with short bow and swap to dp to decap. Yes, the obsession with the one weapon skill all theif mains have known for year defines their class and is literally the only reason it functions is "bizarre". Also, why are you just saying a simple truth as if its supposed to mean anything? No that skill does not define the class neither does the short bow weapon it’s self. What thief mains say about shortbow is that it’s mandatory- saying just 1 skill in a mandatory weapon defines the class is a huge falsification. Considering have a weapon besides short bow is also mandatory means that short bow it’s self doesn’t define thief let alone 1 skill. Again there are no high rated thief’s that I’ve ever seen that say that nor anyone on metabattle or on streams. Most would say that’s actually bizarre in my experience. Of course it defines the class, and by extension so does shortbow. Now you mightve tuned out when people were discussing it, but thieves say that its mandatory because of shortbow 5, and shortbow is the reason thief is viable. The second weapon is honestly not that important. Thats why thieves change their main weapon between builds, change everything around, but one thing stays unchanged always. Shortbow is the second weapon you use, and shortbow 5 is why youre viable. Also many high rated thieves have said this multiple times, and metabattle says that thief is picked primarily for its insane mobility, which is synonymous with shortbow 5. No, what people would say is bizarre, is acting like shortbow 5 isnt the defining aspect of thief. What youre doing right now. But just for fun, try the following: Play thief without ever using shortbow 5. You can keep shortbow if you want, but no shortbow 5. And do it in a MAT to ensure that the competition is good. See how effective you will be. Spoiler: Youll be useless. There is a reason why Thief was the worst class in 2v2/3v3, and that reason is because shortbow 5, their defining skill, isnt useful in it. No there are no high rated thief’s that say that. Metabattle does not say it either, in fact the builds are named after the main hand weapon which isn’t shortbow becuz short now is a utility weapon not the offensive one that defines the build. The metabattle moderator has said before that short bow mandatory just like I said and like every high rated thief says. Maybe u got some random person on the forum to agree with you but no there are no high rated thief’s that say and I’m telling you that as probably the highest rated thief in this discussion at least on NA since I don’t know everyone here from Eu Ok now I am convinced you are just hard trolling here. Because I cant believe that even you would believe the nonsense youre writing here. Everyone says it (except you apparently). The builds arent named after shortbow because every build uses shortbow. Youd just have 4 thief builds called "shortbow thief" in that case. You dont see Ranger builds named after GS because every build uses GS, do you? Yes, shortbow is a utility weapon, but its that utility weapon that defines the entire class. Thief is picked because it moves faster than everyone else. It moves faster than everyone else because of shortbow 5. Thief is picked because of shortbow 5. The rest changes and doesnt really matter. Thief stays the same. A class defined by shortbow 5. If that’s what everyone says than get 1 high rated thief in here to agree. But no one would would they? No where on metabattle did it say that. No one who rates a build says “it doesn’t matter what weapon you take as long as you have short bow it’s meta”. There has been like 1 shortbow meta, never since than. Rn it’s a dp DrD meta. Not a short bow stealth meta. Of course not, but lets take a look at the flipside. "It doesn't matter what weapon you take, as long as you dont have shortbow, you will be useless". I think even you will have trouble saying that this isnt the undeniable truth. And then, if youre useless if you dont have a specific weapon (and also useless if you dont use a specific skill on that specific weapon), Id call that pretty defining. Thats what everyone says. Im not sure if youre trolling or trying to use semantical tricks to cover up your mistake, but either way, youre wrong.No what that is is backwards logic. That’s why no thief main with a brain says that.

Yes, thief damage is a huge problem. The fact they can run zerker and still have 15k hp due to daredevil is one of the issues. Its not, its quite low. I have been playing core Engineer and only core engineer for about a year now. I know why thief is good, but its the same thing its always been. Thief is not "the best class next to holo" (especially because Scrapper is arguably better than Holo as is). Thief is a mandatory 1-of due to its superior mobility that makes up for its inferior everything else. But you never want more than one thief on your team, else you will lose. Does that sound like a best class to you? The truth is that Thieves damage is pretty pathetic. Its enough to win +1s, but you need very little to win +1s. If you compared it to any other roamer, every single one blows thief out of the water. Same with defense, same with CC, same with utility. But it doesnt matter because Thief gets to the +1s fast than anyone else. Thats also why, if you took away shortbow 5, thief would instantly become unplayable. Because suddenly thief doesnt get to them faster than anyone else. And then its inferior everything else just makes it trash tier.Is that why legendary rated streamers have been calling thief “the most busted ranked carry next to holo”. This obsession over shortbow 5 is incredibly bizarre too, but u also think thief’s team fight with short bow and swap to dp to decap. Yes, the obsession with the one weapon skill all theif mains have known for year defines their class and is literally the only reason it functions is "bizarre". Also, why are you just saying a simple truth as if its supposed to mean anything? No that skill does not define the class neither does the short bow weapon it’s self. What thief mains say about shortbow is that it’s mandatory- saying just 1 skill in a mandatory weapon defines the class is a huge falsification. Considering have a weapon besides short bow is also mandatory means that short bow it’s self doesn’t define thief let alone 1 skill. Again there are no high rated thief’s that I’ve ever seen that say that nor anyone on metabattle or on streams. Most would say that’s actually bizarre in my experience. Of course it defines the class, and by extension so does shortbow. Now you mightve tuned out when people were discussing it, but thieves say that its mandatory because of shortbow 5, and shortbow is the reason thief is viable. The second weapon is honestly not that important. Thats why thieves change their main weapon between builds, change everything around, but one thing stays unchanged always. Shortbow is the second weapon you use, and shortbow 5 is why youre viable. Also many high rated thieves have said this multiple times, and metabattle says that thief is picked primarily for its insane mobility, which is synonymous with shortbow 5. No, what people would say is bizarre, is acting like shortbow 5 isnt the defining aspect of thief. What youre doing right now. But just for fun, try the following: Play thief without ever using shortbow 5. You can keep shortbow if you want, but no shortbow 5. And do it in a MAT to ensure that the competition is good. See how effective you will be. Spoiler: Youll be useless. There is a reason why Thief was the worst class in 2v2/3v3, and that reason is because shortbow 5, their defining skill, isnt useful in it. No there are no high rated thief’s that say that. Metabattle does not say it either, in fact the builds are named after the main hand weapon which isn’t shortbow becuz short now is a utility weapon not the offensive one that defines the build. The metabattle moderator has said before that short bow mandatory just like I said and like every high rated thief says. Maybe u got some random person on the forum to agree with you but no there are no high rated thief’s that say and I’m telling you that as probably the highest rated thief in this discussion at least on NA since I don’t know everyone here from Eu Ok now I am convinced you are just hard trolling here. Because I cant believe that even you would believe the nonsense youre writing here. Everyone says it (except you apparently). The builds arent named after shortbow because every build uses shortbow. Youd just have 4 thief builds called "shortbow thief" in that case. You dont see Ranger builds named after GS because every build uses GS, do you? Yes, shortbow is a utility weapon, but its that utility weapon that defines the entire class. Thief is picked because it moves faster than everyone else. It moves faster than everyone else because of shortbow 5. Thief is picked because of shortbow 5. The rest changes and doesnt really matter. Thief stays the same. A class defined by shortbow 5.If that’s what everyone says than get 1 high rated thief in here to agree. But no one would would they? No where on metabattle did it say that. No one who rates a build says “it doesn’t matter what weapon you take as long as you have short bow it’s meta”. There has been like 1 shortbow meta, never since than. Rn it’s a dp DrD meta. Not a short bow stealth meta.

Yes, thief damage is a huge problem. The fact they can run zerker and still have 15k hp due to daredevil is one of the issues. Its not, its quite low. I have been playing core Engineer and only core engineer for about a year now. I know why thief is good, but its the same thing its always been. Thief is not "the best class next to holo" (especially because Scrapper is arguably better than Holo as is). Thief is a mandatory 1-of due to its superior mobility that makes up for its inferior everything else. But you never want more than one thief on your team, else you will lose. Does that sound like a best class to you? The truth is that Thieves damage is pretty pathetic. Its enough to win +1s, but you need very little to win +1s. If you compared it to any other roamer, every single one blows thief out of the water. Same with defense, same with CC, same with utility. But it doesnt matter because Thief gets to the +1s fast than anyone else. Thats also why, if you took away shortbow 5, thief would instantly become unplayable. Because suddenly thief doesnt get to them faster than anyone else. And then its inferior everything else just makes it trash tier.Is that why legendary rated streamers have been calling thief “the most busted ranked carry next to holo”. This obsession over shortbow 5 is incredibly bizarre too, but u also think thief’s team fight with short bow and swap to dp to decap. Yes, the obsession with the one weapon skill all theif mains have known for year defines their class and is literally the only reason it functions is "bizarre". Also, why are you just saying a simple truth as if its supposed to mean anything? No that skill does not define the class neither does the short bow weapon it’s self. What thief mains say about shortbow is that it’s mandatory- saying just 1 skill in a mandatory weapon defines the class is a huge falsification. Considering have a weapon besides short bow is also mandatory means that short bow it’s self doesn’t define thief let alone 1 skill. Again there are no high rated thief’s that I’ve ever seen that say that nor anyone on metabattle or on streams. Most would say that’s actually bizarre in my experience. Of course it defines the class, and by extension so does shortbow. Now you mightve tuned out when people were discussing it, but thieves say that its mandatory because of shortbow 5, and shortbow is the reason thief is viable. The second weapon is honestly not that important. Thats why thieves change their main weapon between builds, change everything around, but one thing stays unchanged always. Shortbow is the second weapon you use, and shortbow 5 is why youre viable. Also many high rated thieves have said this multiple times, and metabattle says that thief is picked primarily for its insane mobility, which is synonymous with shortbow 5. No, what people would say is bizarre, is acting like shortbow 5 isnt the defining aspect of thief. What youre doing right now. But just for fun, try the following: Play thief without ever using shortbow 5. You can keep shortbow if you want, but no shortbow 5. And do it in a MAT to ensure that the competition is good. See how effective you will be. Spoiler: Youll be useless. There is a reason why Thief was the worst class in 2v2/3v3, and that reason is because shortbow 5, their defining skill, isnt useful in it.No there are no high rated thief’s that say that. Metabattle does not say it either, in fact the builds are named after the main hand weapon which isn’t shortbow becuz short now is a utility weapon not the offensive one that defines the build. The metabattle moderator has said before that short bow mandatory just like I said and like every high rated thief says. Maybe u got some random person on the forum to agree with you but no there are no high rated thief’s that say and I’m telling you that as probably the highest rated thief in this discussion at least on NA since I don’t know everyone here from Eu

Its specced almost entirely for damage. You pick Daredevil because its the traitline that gives the most damage (after DA, the traitline previously picked over it, was nerfed hard). You pick SA because its the most reliable damage (it does basically nothing for your sustain, especially now that people are using hidden thief). And you pick Trickery because its mandatory (though it also gives a lot of damage). And ontop of that it runs Berserkers amulet. And for how all-in it goes on damage, it hits pretty poor. Backstabs on a squishy class hit for 5k. If the enemy has any toughness, it hits for less. Heartseeker can hit for 5.5k on a squishy class at <25%, less on toughness again. Thats very little. I do close to that damage on core engineer just using grenades. While actually picking an entire traitline purely for defense (Id hit harder if I used Firearms, but core engineer cant run away with ease, so I cant exactly lower my survivability to as low as thieves). Shadow arts is and has been a defensive trait line since gw1 are u such an online miracle that you can change the definition of the trait lines since before the game was created? I think not, there are some damage modifiers but the #1 reason for these lines are mobility(DrD) intiative(trickery) and stealth(shadow arts). None of these traitlines are specifically taken to improve damage it’s just in the long run they add some, mostly from modifiers though that are not even close to 100% guaranteed to be present. Shadow arts was a defensive traitline. Keyword WAS. While it was a defensive traitline, it was largely unpicked. Then a while back they changed it around a bit, and now its not used as a defensive traitline. In fact, the reason its picked now is because of shadow siphoning, leeching venoms and Rending Shade. 3 traits with no real defensive value. In fact, lets look beyond that. The remaining 3 traits are the 2 minor traits (stealth when using healing skill. Redundant since HiS is used anyway. Provides no defense. Increased stealth duration from skills. Also pointless, no defense.) And Hidden Thief, which gives Stealth on steal (used for quick backstabs) and cd reduction. So tell me, where in this pile of traits do you see any defense. Its used as a damage traitline with minor utility. Daredevil is picked 100% for damage, dash is just gravy. Remember, it wasnt so long ago that the meta thief build was DA/SA/Trickery. The only reason Daredevil was picked again over DA was because DAs damage was hard nerfed, and now Daredevil gives more damage. If Daredevil was picked for mobility, why was it ignored in favour of DA? And Trickery is the only one that isnt picked for damage. Its picked because its mandatory for initiative. But even so it provides a decent chunk of damage. In order, the #1 reason to pick these traitlines is damage (Shadow Arts), damage (Daredevil) and initiative with a bit of damage (Trickery). Its more damage-focused than most classes. Daredevil is taken for mobility and shadow arts for stealth. Comparing to an old build is well redundant since that build was used for like a month and basically absent for like 5 years. Shadow arts is still by definition a defensive traitline. It has options of stealth or defensive traits and then life shipon which is still fairly defensive. Only offensive one is basically rending shade which isn’t always picked so yeah no. You cant just repeat a wrong thing until it turns true. It will stay false. Shadow Arts is not taken for defense, or stealth, its taken for damage. Why do you think it went unpicked entirely (Even while providing boosts to stealth) all the way up until they added leeching venoms and shadow siphoning? In fact, lets take a closer look, shall we? It does actually have a few defensive traits. Shadow's Embrace. No longer picked. Flickering Shadows, not picked (despite being a 33% damage reduction while revealed). Shadow Saviour, not picked. Instead, its only picked for traits that have no defensive value and are purely offensive. Like the siphon traits (that you only proc when you engage a fight 95% of the time, and as such the healing goes to waste). Shadow Siphoning is an offensive trait. Leeching Venoms is the only offensive trait in a slot that has 2 defensive traits, and its picked 100% of the time. Rending Shade is offensive and picked 90+% of the time. Hidden thief is offensive and used 90+% of the time. I dont know how I can simplify it further for you, but the simple fact is that its purely taken as a damage traitline. Oh and as for the "oh its picked for stealth thing", D/Ps primary stealth source is black powder + heartseeker, which doesnt benefit from SA. Meld with Shadows theoretically would, but you already have swiftness. The stealth on heal does nothing, since your heal stealths anyway (And you only use your heal in combat, where you want to drop stealth ASAP, so the duration does nothing). The increased stealth from skills does nothing for similar reasons. As for Daredevil my point still stands. Of course I can compare it to the build that immediately preceded it. Especially because that build followed from a Daredevil build, where Daredevil was dropped in favour of DA because DA did more damage. And of course it was absent for 5 years, Shadow Arts used to be a defensive traitline after all. Which meant no one ever picked it. But after it was changed to a damage traitline, it replaced DA originally, before people figured out "hey, DA also adds more damage than Daredevil, so lets just drop Daredevil". But then DA was nerfed hard, and people went back to Daredevil. Mind you, when the patch that obliterated DA dropped, Sindrener explained why DD D/P is now recommended over DA D/P, and he specifically said its because DA was nerfed so much it just does less damage. Dash is just gravy. You didn’t simplify anything just make it more complicated by mixing stuff up from over the course of many years. And no daredevil isn’t taken for more damage it’s taken becuz the additional mobility is very worth the trade off of slightly higher damage and yeah I’ve seen sinderners argument he said even if you took DA it would only ever be slightly more damage. The additional stealth and mobility are just so huge on this build that the trade offs are barely present and the damage like wise is good enough without these things as well as being incredibly simple and effective with all the stealth and mobility on top. Please dont try to evade answering my question. So tell me once again. Which part of SA is supposed to be defensive? Why was it only picked after its defensive capabilities were nerfed, and it instead got several offensive traits added? Why is it that only the offensive traits get picked instead of defensive alternatives in the same slot? Go ahead, answer it. No, Daredevil is taken because its more damage than DA. There is no trade-off, DA just adds less damage because it was nerfed. Thats why when DA did provide more damage, you picked it over Daredevil. Because the additional mobility of dash is pretty minor considering you have shortbow 5. There is no additional stealth. Full stop. You could make hidden thief and concealing restoration both do nothing for stealth, and people would still pick SA 100% of the time, because those traits are irrelevant as they are. You pick SA for damage. No ones going to answer your question. It’s not the point of a forum. I know you think calling ppl out with your gold facts is cool, but I see no need since this isn’t a thread for that. Feel free to disagree with the op though I will give him answer for you :D @UNOwen.71321 Concealing restoration -> 2s stealth on healing skill use 1 second. The currently used healing skill is Hide in Shadows. This trait does basically nothing. Used for quick backstabs mid-combat. The cooldown reaction is nice, but its not really defensive, since you dont use them twice in a single fight. Pointless since you already max out on swiftness and rarely stealth up while still in combat (And you dont stay in combat for long even if you were still suffering from the reduced speed since those rare situations are when you already disengaged but havent broken the in-combat thing yet). At the start of the fight where the healing goes completely to waste. Used exclusively for damage. At the start of the fight where the healing goes completely to waste. Used exclusively for damage. Well, boonrip or fear. Its a utility trait used for offense. And yet, the only traits its picked for are leeching venoms, shadow siphoning and to a lesser degree rending shade. The former 2 are exclusively damage traits, since the healing gets wasted while youre at full hp. SA may conceptually be a utility/defensive traitline, but its picked as a damage traitline with every defensive trait being completely ignored. If you wanted defense, youd use Flickering Shadows, not leeching venoms. And yet, no one ever does. Its a similar concept to Valor for burning guard. Its supposed to be a defensive traitline, and you even pick one defensive trait as burn guard. But you pick the traitline purely for Permeating Wrath. A damage trait.Wrong, it gives a total of 2 becuz the trait that gives +1 sec to all stealth skills 2.) Wrong. It’ll reduce your defensive cds and gives stealth which is defensive. You’ll see streamers like bluri use it all the time for defense or just stealth. 3.) Wrong. It gives more MS than swiftness, which is useful. Again I see players like bluri use stealth all the time just for the MS increase. 4.) Wrong. It gives up to 2 poison stacks. Which is useful to prevent healing and for sustain + damage that wouldn’t be present without the siphon trait since your power 5.) wrong. You even pointed out stealth is mid combat yet this isn’t for sustain? You contradicting yourself. 6.) Yeah. But the other 2 options for grandmaster are still very common and the other most used 1 is purely sustain. Why ruin the formatting, cmon. Lets see. 1) thats a seperate trait, dont conflate 2 traits. Also still not useful. 2) the reduction in CD is nice, but it will rarely end up used for defense. Also, stealth is offensive, not defensive. The stealth on steal is used pretty much only to either A, get a quick backstab in combat, or B, to prolong your stealth out of combat to burst with a backstab. 3) movement speed has a max cap. Out of combat, that max cap is 400, which is reached with Swiftness. The swiftness you have permanently. So the movement speed does absolutely nothing. 4) If you cared just for the poison, DA has you covered. You pick it for damage. 5) I didnt. I pointed out specifically stealth isnt used mid-combat other than exactly with hidden thief. 6) theyre very uncommon. They get picked, but not much. You use stealth out of combat, correct. This however is accomplished without any benefit from SA, as the stealth you use does not get increased duration (combo finishers dont count as skills) and the movement speed is wasted due to the cap. You do not go in and out of stealth in combat. The only time you enter stealth in-combat is either hidden thief backstab, or HiS/Blinding powder. In all 3 cases you exit stealth ASAP, so you do not gain any benefit from SA either, other than possibly some healing and obviously damage. Except, even healing-wise, if you want that, Mug completely outpaces all healing SA provides. The traitline is for damage. But let me just ask you one very simple question. If Shadow Siphoning and Leeching Venoms were both removed from the traitline (lets say venoms gets put in DA, and Siphoning just gets removed), and get replaced by very strong defensive traits. Do you think the traitline would be picked? I know the answer, but lets see what you think.Stealth by definitiontion is defensive. cautious and surreptitious action or movement. Cautious movements are not generally offensive. You clearly have the entire role of thief confused and for some reason you seem be to be out of combat 24-7 and yet going to backstab ppl. Again you are probably staying up late farming bots if that’s the case.

Yes, thief damage is a huge problem. The fact they can run zerker and still have 15k hp due to daredevil is one of the issues. Its not, its quite low. I have been playing core Engineer and only core engineer for about a year now. I know why thief is good, but its the same thing its always been. Thief is not "the best class next to holo" (especially because Scrapper is arguably better than Holo as is). Thief is a mandatory 1-of due to its superior mobility that makes up for its inferior everything else. But you never want more than one thief on your team, else you will lose. Does that sound like a best class to you? The truth is that Thieves damage is pretty pathetic. Its enough to win +1s, but you need very little to win +1s. If you compared it to any other roamer, every single one blows thief out of the water. Same with defense, same with CC, same with utility. But it doesnt matter because Thief gets to the +1s fast than anyone else. Thats also why, if you took away shortbow 5, thief would instantly become unplayable. Because suddenly thief doesnt get to them faster than anyone else. And then its inferior everything else just makes it trash tier.Is that why legendary rated streamers have been calling thief “the most busted ranked carry next to holo”. This obsession over shortbow 5 is incredibly bizarre too, but u also think thief’s team fight with short bow and swap to dp to decap. Yes, the obsession with the one weapon skill all theif mains have known for year defines their class and is literally the only reason it functions is "bizarre". Also, why are you just saying a simple truth as if its supposed to mean anything?No that skill does not define the class neither does the short bow weapon it’s self. What thief mains say about shortbow is that it’s mandatory- saying just 1 skill in a mandatory weapon defines the class is a huge falsification. Considering have a weapon besides short bow is also mandatory means that short bow it’s self doesn’t define thief let alone 1 skill. Again there are no high rated thief’s that I’ve ever seen that say that nor anyone on metabattle or on streams. Most would say that’s actually bizarre in my experience.

Its specced almost entirely for damage. You pick Daredevil because its the traitline that gives the most damage (after DA, the traitline previously picked over it, was nerfed hard). You pick SA because its the most reliable damage (it does basically nothing for your sustain, especially now that people are using hidden thief). And you pick Trickery because its mandatory (though it also gives a lot of damage). And ontop of that it runs Berserkers amulet. And for how all-in it goes on damage, it hits pretty poor. Backstabs on a squishy class hit for 5k. If the enemy has any toughness, it hits for less. Heartseeker can hit for 5.5k on a squishy class at <25%, less on toughness again. Thats very little. I do close to that damage on core engineer just using grenades. While actually picking an entire traitline purely for defense (Id hit harder if I used Firearms, but core engineer cant run away with ease, so I cant exactly lower my survivability to as low as thieves). Shadow arts is and has been a defensive trait line since gw1 are u such an online miracle that you can change the definition of the trait lines since before the game was created? I think not, there are some damage modifiers but the #1 reason for these lines are mobility(DrD) intiative(trickery) and stealth(shadow arts). None of these traitlines are specifically taken to improve damage it’s just in the long run they add some, mostly from modifiers though that are not even close to 100% guaranteed to be present. Shadow arts was a defensive traitline. Keyword WAS. While it was a defensive traitline, it was largely unpicked. Then a while back they changed it around a bit, and now its not used as a defensive traitline. In fact, the reason its picked now is because of shadow siphoning, leeching venoms and Rending Shade. 3 traits with no real defensive value. In fact, lets look beyond that. The remaining 3 traits are the 2 minor traits (stealth when using healing skill. Redundant since HiS is used anyway. Provides no defense. Increased stealth duration from skills. Also pointless, no defense.) And Hidden Thief, which gives Stealth on steal (used for quick backstabs) and cd reduction. So tell me, where in this pile of traits do you see any defense. Its used as a damage traitline with minor utility. Daredevil is picked 100% for damage, dash is just gravy. Remember, it wasnt so long ago that the meta thief build was DA/SA/Trickery. The only reason Daredevil was picked again over DA was because DAs damage was hard nerfed, and now Daredevil gives more damage. If Daredevil was picked for mobility, why was it ignored in favour of DA? And Trickery is the only one that isnt picked for damage. Its picked because its mandatory for initiative. But even so it provides a decent chunk of damage. In order, the #1 reason to pick these traitlines is damage (Shadow Arts), damage (Daredevil) and initiative with a bit of damage (Trickery). Its more damage-focused than most classes. Daredevil is taken for mobility and shadow arts for stealth. Comparing to an old build is well redundant since that build was used for like a month and basically absent for like 5 years. Shadow arts is still by definition a defensive traitline. It has options of stealth or defensive traits and then life shipon which is still fairly defensive. Only offensive one is basically rending shade which isn’t always picked so yeah no. You cant just repeat a wrong thing until it turns true. It will stay false. Shadow Arts is not taken for defense, or stealth, its taken for damage. Why do you think it went unpicked entirely (Even while providing boosts to stealth) all the way up until they added leeching venoms and shadow siphoning? In fact, lets take a closer look, shall we? It does actually have a few defensive traits. Shadow's Embrace. No longer picked. Flickering Shadows, not picked (despite being a 33% damage reduction while revealed). Shadow Saviour, not picked. Instead, its only picked for traits that have no defensive value and are purely offensive. Like the siphon traits (that you only proc when you engage a fight 95% of the time, and as such the healing goes to waste). Shadow Siphoning is an offensive trait. Leeching Venoms is the only offensive trait in a slot that has 2 defensive traits, and its picked 100% of the time. Rending Shade is offensive and picked 90+% of the time. Hidden thief is offensive and used 90+% of the time. I dont know how I can simplify it further for you, but the simple fact is that its purely taken as a damage traitline. Oh and as for the "oh its picked for stealth thing", D/Ps primary stealth source is black powder + heartseeker, which doesnt benefit from SA. Meld with Shadows theoretically would, but you already have swiftness. The stealth on heal does nothing, since your heal stealths anyway (And you only use your heal in combat, where you want to drop stealth ASAP, so the duration does nothing). The increased stealth from skills does nothing for similar reasons. As for Daredevil my point still stands. Of course I can compare it to the build that immediately preceded it. Especially because that build followed from a Daredevil build, where Daredevil was dropped in favour of DA because DA did more damage. And of course it was absent for 5 years, Shadow Arts used to be a defensive traitline after all. Which meant no one ever picked it. But after it was changed to a damage traitline, it replaced DA originally, before people figured out "hey, DA also adds more damage than Daredevil, so lets just drop Daredevil". But then DA was nerfed hard, and people went back to Daredevil. Mind you, when the patch that obliterated DA dropped, Sindrener explained why DD D/P is now recommended over DA D/P, and he specifically said its because DA was nerfed so much it just does less damage. Dash is just gravy. You didn’t simplify anything just make it more complicated by mixing stuff up from over the course of many years. And no daredevil isn’t taken for more damage it’s taken becuz the additional mobility is very worth the trade off of slightly higher damage and yeah I’ve seen sinderners argument he said even if you took DA it would only ever be slightly more damage. The additional stealth and mobility are just so huge on this build that the trade offs are barely present and the damage like wise is good enough without these things as well as being incredibly simple and effective with all the stealth and mobility on top. Please dont try to evade answering my question. So tell me once again. Which part of SA is supposed to be defensive? Why was it only picked after its defensive capabilities were nerfed, and it instead got several offensive traits added? Why is it that only the offensive traits get picked instead of defensive alternatives in the same slot? Go ahead, answer it. No, Daredevil is taken because its more damage than DA. There is no trade-off, DA just adds less damage because it was nerfed. Thats why when DA did provide more damage, you picked it over Daredevil. Because the additional mobility of dash is pretty minor considering you have shortbow 5. There is no additional stealth. Full stop. You could make hidden thief and concealing restoration both do nothing for stealth, and people would still pick SA 100% of the time, because those traits are irrelevant as they are. You pick SA for damage. No ones going to answer your question. It’s not the point of a forum. I know you think calling ppl out with your gold facts is cool, but I see no need since this isn’t a thread for that. Feel free to disagree with the op though I will give him answer for you :D @UNOwen.71321 Concealing restoration -> 2s stealth on healing skill use 1 second. The currently used healing skill is Hide in Shadows. This trait does basically nothing. Used for quick backstabs mid-combat. The cooldown reaction is nice, but its not really defensive, since you dont use them twice in a single fight. Pointless since you already max out on swiftness and rarely stealth up while still in combat (And you dont stay in combat for long even if you were still suffering from the reduced speed since those rare situations are when you already disengaged but havent broken the in-combat thing yet). At the start of the fight where the healing goes completely to waste. Used exclusively for damage. At the start of the fight where the healing goes completely to waste. Used exclusively for damage. Well, boonrip or fear. Its a utility trait used for offense. And yet, the only traits its picked for are leeching venoms, shadow siphoning and to a lesser degree rending shade. The former 2 are exclusively damage traits, since the healing gets wasted while youre at full hp. SA may conceptually be a utility/defensive traitline, but its picked as a damage traitline with every defensive trait being completely ignored. If you wanted defense, youd use Flickering Shadows, not leeching venoms. And yet, no one ever does. Its a similar concept to Valor for burning guard. Its supposed to be a defensive traitline, and you even pick one defensive trait as burn guard. But you pick the traitline purely for Permeating Wrath. A damage trait.Wrong, it gives a total of 2 becuz the trait that gives +1 sec to all stealth skills 2.) Wrong. It’ll reduce your defensive cds and gives stealth which is defensive. You’ll see streamers like bluri use it all the time for defense or just stealth. 3.) Wrong. It gives more MS than swiftness, which is useful. Again I see players like bluri use stealth all the time just for the MS increase. 4.) Wrong. It gives up to 2 poison stacks. Which is useful to prevent healing and for sustain + damage that wouldn’t be present without the siphon trait since your power 5.) wrong. You even pointed out stealth is mid combat yet this isn’t for sustain? You contradicting yourself. 6.) Yeah. But the other 2 options for grandmaster are still very common and the other most used 1 is purely sustain.7.) wrong. You’ve probably been spending to much time just attacking golems if you think this trait line is for damage. Considering that a whole match you are constantly using stealth whenever out of combat and even going into and out of stealth in combat. If you go a whole match staying at full hp the whole time you are either already winning by a lot of just being a decap bot or afk

Yes, thief damage is a huge problem. The fact they can run zerker and still have 15k hp due to daredevil is one of the issues. Its not, its quite low. I have been playing core Engineer and only core engineer for about a year now. I know why thief is good, but its the same thing its always been. Thief is not "the best class next to holo" (especially because Scrapper is arguably better than Holo as is). Thief is a mandatory 1-of due to its superior mobility that makes up for its inferior everything else. But you never want more than one thief on your team, else you will lose. Does that sound like a best class to you? The truth is that Thieves damage is pretty pathetic. Its enough to win +1s, but you need very little to win +1s. If you compared it to any other roamer, every single one blows thief out of the water. Same with defense, same with CC, same with utility. But it doesnt matter because Thief gets to the +1s fast than anyone else. Thats also why, if you took away shortbow 5, thief would instantly become unplayable. Because suddenly thief doesnt get to them faster than anyone else. And then its inferior everything else just makes it trash tier.Is that why legendary rated streamers have been calling thief “the most busted ranked carry next to holo”. This obsession over shortbow 5 is incredibly bizarre too, but u also think thief’s team fight with short bow and swap to dp to decap.

Its specced almost entirely for damage. You pick Daredevil because its the traitline that gives the most damage (after DA, the traitline previously picked over it, was nerfed hard). You pick SA because its the most reliable damage (it does basically nothing for your sustain, especially now that people are using hidden thief). And you pick Trickery because its mandatory (though it also gives a lot of damage). And ontop of that it runs Berserkers amulet. And for how all-in it goes on damage, it hits pretty poor. Backstabs on a squishy class hit for 5k. If the enemy has any toughness, it hits for less. Heartseeker can hit for 5.5k on a squishy class at <25%, less on toughness again. Thats very little. I do close to that damage on core engineer just using grenades. While actually picking an entire traitline purely for defense (Id hit harder if I used Firearms, but core engineer cant run away with ease, so I cant exactly lower my survivability to as low as thieves). Shadow arts is and has been a defensive trait line since gw1 are u such an online miracle that you can change the definition of the trait lines since before the game was created? I think not, there are some damage modifiers but the #1 reason for these lines are mobility(DrD) intiative(trickery) and stealth(shadow arts). None of these traitlines are specifically taken to improve damage it’s just in the long run they add some, mostly from modifiers though that are not even close to 100% guaranteed to be present. Shadow arts was a defensive traitline. Keyword WAS. While it was a defensive traitline, it was largely unpicked. Then a while back they changed it around a bit, and now its not used as a defensive traitline. In fact, the reason its picked now is because of shadow siphoning, leeching venoms and Rending Shade. 3 traits with no real defensive value. In fact, lets look beyond that. The remaining 3 traits are the 2 minor traits (stealth when using healing skill. Redundant since HiS is used anyway. Provides no defense. Increased stealth duration from skills. Also pointless, no defense.) And Hidden Thief, which gives Stealth on steal (used for quick backstabs) and cd reduction. So tell me, where in this pile of traits do you see any defense. Its used as a damage traitline with minor utility. Daredevil is picked 100% for damage, dash is just gravy. Remember, it wasnt so long ago that the meta thief build was DA/SA/Trickery. The only reason Daredevil was picked again over DA was because DAs damage was hard nerfed, and now Daredevil gives more damage. If Daredevil was picked for mobility, why was it ignored in favour of DA? And Trickery is the only one that isnt picked for damage. Its picked because its mandatory for initiative. But even so it provides a decent chunk of damage. In order, the #1 reason to pick these traitlines is damage (Shadow Arts), damage (Daredevil) and initiative with a bit of damage (Trickery). Its more damage-focused than most classes. Daredevil is taken for mobility and shadow arts for stealth. Comparing to an old build is well redundant since that build was used for like a month and basically absent for like 5 years. Shadow arts is still by definition a defensive traitline. It has options of stealth or defensive traits and then life shipon which is still fairly defensive. Only offensive one is basically rending shade which isn’t always picked so yeah no. You cant just repeat a wrong thing until it turns true. It will stay false. Shadow Arts is not taken for defense, or stealth, its taken for damage. Why do you think it went unpicked entirely (Even while providing boosts to stealth) all the way up until they added leeching venoms and shadow siphoning? In fact, lets take a closer look, shall we? It does actually have a few defensive traits. Shadow's Embrace. No longer picked. Flickering Shadows, not picked (despite being a 33% damage reduction while revealed). Shadow Saviour, not picked. Instead, its only picked for traits that have no defensive value and are purely offensive. Like the siphon traits (that you only proc when you engage a fight 95% of the time, and as such the healing goes to waste). Shadow Siphoning is an offensive trait. Leeching Venoms is the only offensive trait in a slot that has 2 defensive traits, and its picked 100% of the time. Rending Shade is offensive and picked 90+% of the time. Hidden thief is offensive and used 90+% of the time. I dont know how I can simplify it further for you, but the simple fact is that its purely taken as a damage traitline. Oh and as for the "oh its picked for stealth thing", D/Ps primary stealth source is black powder + heartseeker, which doesnt benefit from SA. Meld with Shadows theoretically would, but you already have swiftness. The stealth on heal does nothing, since your heal stealths anyway (And you only use your heal in combat, where you want to drop stealth ASAP, so the duration does nothing). The increased stealth from skills does nothing for similar reasons. As for Daredevil my point still stands. Of course I can compare it to the build that immediately preceded it. Especially because that build followed from a Daredevil build, where Daredevil was dropped in favour of DA because DA did more damage. And of course it was absent for 5 years, Shadow Arts used to be a defensive traitline after all. Which meant no one ever picked it. But after it was changed to a damage traitline, it replaced DA originally, before people figured out "hey, DA also adds more damage than Daredevil, so lets just drop Daredevil". But then DA was nerfed hard, and people went back to Daredevil. Mind you, when the patch that obliterated DA dropped, Sindrener explained why DD D/P is now recommended over DA D/P, and he specifically said its because DA was nerfed so much it just does less damage. Dash is just gravy. You didn’t simplify anything just make it more complicated by mixing stuff up from over the course of many years. And no daredevil isn’t taken for more damage it’s taken becuz the additional mobility is very worth the trade off of slightly higher damage and yeah I’ve seen sinderners argument he said even if you took DA it would only ever be slightly more damage. The additional stealth and mobility are just so huge on this build that the trade offs are barely present and the damage like wise is good enough without these things as well as being incredibly simple and effective with all the stealth and mobility on top. Please dont try to evade answering my question. So tell me once again. Which part of SA is supposed to be defensive? Why was it only picked after its defensive capabilities were nerfed, and it instead got several offensive traits added? Why is it that only the offensive traits get picked instead of defensive alternatives in the same slot? Go ahead, answer it. No, Daredevil is taken because its more damage than DA. There is no trade-off, DA just adds less damage because it was nerfed. Thats why when DA did provide more damage, you picked it over Daredevil. Because the additional mobility of dash is pretty minor considering you have shortbow 5. There is no additional stealth. Full stop. You could make hidden thief and concealing restoration both do nothing for stealth, and people would still pick SA 100% of the time, because those traits are irrelevant as they are. You pick SA for damage.No ones going to answer your question. It’s not the point of a forum. I know you think calling ppl out with your gold facts is cool, but I see no need since this isn’t a thread for that. Feel free to disagree with the op though

/stuck can work but even devs have pointed at to my knowledge that it’s safer to go to character select screen and relog. Either way your character will be put on respawn but you don’t have to wait 30 secs for stuck to work which it might not anyways

Its specced almost entirely for damage. You pick Daredevil because its the traitline that gives the most damage (after DA, the traitline previously picked over it, was nerfed hard). You pick SA because its the most reliable damage (it does basically nothing for your sustain, especially now that people are using hidden thief). And you pick Trickery because its mandatory (though it also gives a lot of damage). And ontop of that it runs Berserkers amulet. And for how all-in it goes on damage, it hits pretty poor. Backstabs on a squishy class hit for 5k. If the enemy has any toughness, it hits for less. Heartseeker can hit for 5.5k on a squishy class at <25%, less on toughness again. Thats very little. I do close to that damage on core engineer just using grenades. While actually picking an entire traitline purely for defense (Id hit harder if I used Firearms, but core engineer cant run away with ease, so I cant exactly lower my survivability to as low as thieves). Shadow arts is and has been a defensive trait line since gw1 are u such an online miracle that you can change the definition of the trait lines since before the game was created? I think not, there are some damage modifiers but the #1 reason for these lines are mobility(DrD) intiative(trickery) and stealth(shadow arts). None of these traitlines are specifically taken to improve damage it’s just in the long run they add some, mostly from modifiers though that are not even close to 100% guaranteed to be present. Shadow arts was a defensive traitline. Keyword WAS. While it was a defensive traitline, it was largely unpicked. Then a while back they changed it around a bit, and now its not used as a defensive traitline. In fact, the reason its picked now is because of shadow siphoning, leeching venoms and Rending Shade. 3 traits with no real defensive value. In fact, lets look beyond that. The remaining 3 traits are the 2 minor traits (stealth when using healing skill. Redundant since HiS is used anyway. Provides no defense. Increased stealth duration from skills. Also pointless, no defense.) And Hidden Thief, which gives Stealth on steal (used for quick backstabs) and cd reduction. So tell me, where in this pile of traits do you see any defense. Its used as a damage traitline with minor utility. Daredevil is picked 100% for damage, dash is just gravy. Remember, it wasnt so long ago that the meta thief build was DA/SA/Trickery. The only reason Daredevil was picked again over DA was because DAs damage was hard nerfed, and now Daredevil gives more damage. If Daredevil was picked for mobility, why was it ignored in favour of DA? And Trickery is the only one that isnt picked for damage. Its picked because its mandatory for initiative. But even so it provides a decent chunk of damage. In order, the #1 reason to pick these traitlines is damage (Shadow Arts), damage (Daredevil) and initiative with a bit of damage (Trickery). Its more damage-focused than most classes. Daredevil is taken for mobility and shadow arts for stealth. Comparing to an old build is well redundant since that build was used for like a month and basically absent for like 5 years. Shadow arts is still by definition a defensive traitline. It has options of stealth or defensive traits and then life shipon which is still fairly defensive. Only offensive one is basically rending shade which isn’t always picked so yeah no. You cant just repeat a wrong thing until it turns true. It will stay false. Shadow Arts is not taken for defense, or stealth, its taken for damage. Why do you think it went unpicked entirely (Even while providing boosts to stealth) all the way up until they added leeching venoms and shadow siphoning? In fact, lets take a closer look, shall we? It does actually have a few defensive traits. Shadow's Embrace. No longer picked. Flickering Shadows, not picked (despite being a 33% damage reduction while revealed). Shadow Saviour, not picked. Instead, its only picked for traits that have no defensive value and are purely offensive. Like the siphon traits (that you only proc when you engage a fight 95% of the time, and as such the healing goes to waste). Shadow Siphoning is an offensive trait. Leeching Venoms is the only offensive trait in a slot that has 2 defensive traits, and its picked 100% of the time. Rending Shade is offensive and picked 90+% of the time. Hidden thief is offensive and used 90+% of the time. I dont know how I can simplify it further for you, but the simple fact is that its purely taken as a damage traitline. Oh and as for the "oh its picked for stealth thing", D/Ps primary stealth source is black powder + heartseeker, which doesnt benefit from SA. Meld with Shadows theoretically would, but you already have swiftness. The stealth on heal does nothing, since your heal stealths anyway (And you only use your heal in combat, where you want to drop stealth ASAP, so the duration does nothing). The increased stealth from skills does nothing for similar reasons. As for Daredevil my point still stands. Of course I can compare it to the build that immediately preceded it. Especially because that build followed from a Daredevil build, where Daredevil was dropped in favour of DA because DA did more damage. And of course it was absent for 5 years, Shadow Arts used to be a defensive traitline after all. Which meant no one ever picked it. But after it was changed to a damage traitline, it replaced DA originally, before people figured out "hey, DA also adds more damage than Daredevil, so lets just drop Daredevil". But then DA was nerfed hard, and people went back to Daredevil. Mind you, when the patch that obliterated DA dropped, Sindrener explained why DD D/P is now recommended over DA D/P, and he specifically said its because DA was nerfed so much it just does less damage. Dash is just gravy. You didn’t simplify anything just make it more complicated by mixing stuff up from over the course of many years. And no daredevil isn’t taken for more damage it’s taken becuz the additional mobility is very worth the trade off of slightly higher damage and yeah I’ve seen sinderners argument he said even if you took DA it would only ever be slightly more damage. The additional stealth and mobility are just so huge on this build that the trade offs are barely present and the damage like wise is good enough without these things as well as being incredibly simple and effective with all the stealth and mobility on top.

Its specced almost entirely for damage. You pick Daredevil because its the traitline that gives the most damage (after DA, the traitline previously picked over it, was nerfed hard). You pick SA because its the most reliable damage (it does basically nothing for your sustain, especially now that people are using hidden thief). And you pick Trickery because its mandatory (though it also gives a lot of damage). And ontop of that it runs Berserkers amulet. And for how all-in it goes on damage, it hits pretty poor. Backstabs on a squishy class hit for 5k. If the enemy has any toughness, it hits for less. Heartseeker can hit for 5.5k on a squishy class at <25%, less on toughness again. Thats very little. I do close to that damage on core engineer just using grenades. While actually picking an entire traitline purely for defense (Id hit harder if I used Firearms, but core engineer cant run away with ease, so I cant exactly lower my survivability to as low as thieves). Shadow arts is and has been a defensive trait line since gw1 are u such an online miracle that you can change the definition of the trait lines since before the game was created? I think not, there are some damage modifiers but the #1 reason for these lines are mobility(DrD) intiative(trickery) and stealth(shadow arts). None of these traitlines are specifically taken to improve damage it’s just in the long run they add some, mostly from modifiers though that are not even close to 100% guaranteed to be present. Shadow arts was a defensive traitline. Keyword WAS. While it was a defensive traitline, it was largely unpicked. Then a while back they changed it around a bit, and now its not used as a defensive traitline. In fact, the reason its picked now is because of shadow siphoning, leeching venoms and Rending Shade. 3 traits with no real defensive value. In fact, lets look beyond that. The remaining 3 traits are the 2 minor traits (stealth when using healing skill. Redundant since HiS is used anyway. Provides no defense. Increased stealth duration from skills. Also pointless, no defense.) And Hidden Thief, which gives Stealth on steal (used for quick backstabs) and cd reduction. So tell me, where in this pile of traits do you see any defense. Its used as a damage traitline with minor utility. Daredevil is picked 100% for damage, dash is just gravy. Remember, it wasnt so long ago that the meta thief build was DA/SA/Trickery. The only reason Daredevil was picked again over DA was because DAs damage was hard nerfed, and now Daredevil gives more damage. If Daredevil was picked for mobility, why was it ignored in favour of DA? And Trickery is the only one that isnt picked for damage. Its picked because its mandatory for initiative. But even so it provides a decent chunk of damage. In order, the #1 reason to pick these traitlines is damage (Shadow Arts), damage (Daredevil) and initiative with a bit of damage (Trickery). Its more damage-focused than most classes.Daredevil is taken for mobility and shadow arts for stealth. Comparing to an old build is well redundant since that build was used for like a month and basically absent for like 5 years. Shadow arts is still by definition a defensive traitline. It has options of stealth or defensive traits and then life shipon which is still fairly defensive. Only offensive one is basically rending shade which isn’t always picked so yeah no.

Its specced almost entirely for damage. You pick Daredevil because its the traitline that gives the most damage (after DA, the traitline previously picked over it, was nerfed hard). You pick SA because its the most reliable damage (it does basically nothing for your sustain, especially now that people are using hidden thief). And you pick Trickery because its mandatory (though it also gives a lot of damage). And ontop of that it runs Berserkers amulet. And for how all-in it goes on damage, it hits pretty poor. Backstabs on a squishy class hit for 5k. If the enemy has any toughness, it hits for less. Heartseeker can hit for 5.5k on a squishy class at <25%, less on toughness again. Thats very little. I do close to that damage on core engineer just using grenades. While actually picking an entire traitline purely for defense (Id hit harder if I used Firearms, but core engineer cant run away with ease, so I cant exactly lower my survivability to as low as thieves). Shadow arts is and has been a defensive trait line since gw1 are u such an online miracle that you can change the definition of the trait lines since before the game was created? I think not, there are some damage modifiers but the #1 reason for these lines are mobility(DrD) intiative(trickery) and stealth(shadow arts). None of these traitlines are specifically taken to improve damage it’s just in the long run they add some, mostly from modifiers though that are not even close to 100% guaranteed to be present.

I think thief damage is fairly busted. The dp build is almost entirely specced for mobility, stealth and sustain- granted it uses berserker amulet but it still hits insanely hard granted what it’s specced for. It can get by just spamming backstabs and heartseekers etc which I’ve seen hit like 6-7k per at times. It’s not 100% necessary as some suggest, but it might as well be since it has no boundaries due to mobility and stealth and has instant high impact and also insanely high passive impact due to the idea that “o they can stealth for 10s and get across the map in that time”.

There is no longer a reason to play stuff like mauraders with a damage rune becuz they took away all utility of damage amulets and lowered stats of 4 stat amulets and there is no longer a way to tank plus 1s with out defensive amulets. Likewise classes like soulbeast and mirage are useless with trades. They literally are deleting ways to play the game and the smoothness of skills- it’s also hard now to stomp enemies cuz lack of stab. The game feels less diverse becuz it is and there is longer a reason to play anything but builds that are power crept after a patch meant to reduce power creep

I think u complained about me bunkering a node too. Not gold rated plat2 Eu and plat3 + up on NA

Placements start at 1200 averaged with previous season elo and u gain or lose points for every win/lose. Rating gain and loss are greater the less games u have and depend on average rating in matches so if your say in legend u gain little per win and loss a good bit per loss or vise versa if your gold going against legend players. Amount of matches to be on the leaderboard raise by 15 per week until it hits 120 and the last day of season ends a few hours before reset so that the boards will be finalized before reset where they send out titles for top 250 100 25 10 3 2 1

I don’t think condi core or dh are that good. Firebrand is passable for sure and symbol core is probably the eziest and best side noder for ranked.

That bug wasn't there before apparently, and all competitive ele mains I know ask for it to be fixed. Instant targeting can be flexible in its cast for lots of stuff. To ppl unfamiliar with instant casting may think it’s like locking onto a target, but yeah that’s just how instant casting is

I never said we were in a condi meta. I said we were in a condi heavy meta. Reread it.Thieves are nearly 75% PD Condi in NA and they are played often. Even in ATs good teams stack them lately, which is obnoxious. I had recently posted a screenshot of my team against Vaans' team in the final round of an AT. We had 4 PD Thieves in the match. This is where the difference is between EU players saying that condi isn't that big of a thing, but NA players complaining about too much condi. Outside of that yeah, it's nearly 50/50 power & condi play. But that doesn't change my point of view that condi heavy metas have bad dynamic.What passive CC am I talking about? Exactly what I said in the OP post. And yes, Shocking Aura is as passive as it gets. The Tempest itself casts it frequently and then after it is cast it lingers passively and auto CCs when players attempt attacks. Now when we're talking Aura Share, OTHER PLAYERS ARE DOING NOTHING to benefit Shocking Aura Share which once it goes onto them, it passively lingers there, interrupting enemies who attempt attacks around them. That's pretty much the epitome of passive CC. I don't understand how you can try to argue that.About Supports - I don't care if the Supports are Full-Support, Hybrid-Support, or Berserker Amulet-Support. The fact of the matter is that regardless of what ratio of Offense to Defense they are running on the build, they're still pumping out over-tweaked support whereas other classes don't have support at all. You fail to mention that things like Shocking Aura Share with Lightning Rod actually work better with high DPS for its support factor. And how things like condi cleansing & prot spam & team stab & bubbles for proj reflection type support, works exactly the same whether a Full-Support build or a Berserker-Support build. The only thing different on a Full-Support build really, is heal factor when someone is choosing to run something like Mender. Right now in this meta, Supports are optimizing for high damage with damage mitigation techniques, rather than raw healing. This style of support is showing to be much stronger and proving that my statement holds true when I said that: "Supports are too strong right now" regardless of why or how. I don't understand what your point in your 3) was, as if it were trying to avoid this fact. Shocking aura is not passive at all , you don't get passively stunned unless you attack the ele exactly like full counter that you consider "heavy telegraph"; furthermore the aura is plenty visible. Since launch auras have worked "on hit" and full counter can be used way more frequently than SA seen as it's on a 8s CD If I put down a symbol then the tempest uses shock aura and runs into my symbol, I get stunned. I continue to get stunned if it AOE's shock aura onto more people and am basically stunlocked from CC I had to ""predict"" coming by literally not pressing my highest damaging ability. Shock aura is completely broken and passive, and it's counter play is simply not playing the game at all. Not playing GW2 isn't good counterplay for an ability btw. Shocking aura has been here since launch ..which was 8 years ago, that was plenty of time to learn how to counterplay the skill : 1.The stun is only meleeYou have stabilityOnly last 4s and stun once every 2s for 1sDoes not reflect or block incoming dmg be it condi or direct Saying that Shocking aura stops you from playing the game is a pompous grossly exaggeration to say the leastNo it isn't. When I try to use Lightning Reflexes while in range of Shocking Aura, it prevents me from using my evade and nullifies the point of the stun break to begin with. The same goes for other non melee damage sources.You reference Shocking Aura being in the game for 8 years and this is true. But in those initial years, it was convenient for every build to run as much Stability as they could. And later years, +conc stat amulets were introduced along with runes that added wildly large amounts of flat +boon durations. During these years, a single proc of Stability with say 10 stacks, would last like 15s to 20s. This is why no one noticed Shocking Aura during those years. AFTER the legend nerf patch that massively lowered DPS, removed tons of stun breaks, removed stability procs, removed +conc stat amulets, and hard nerfed +boon duration runes, players now have access to roughly 2/3rds of the stun breaks they previously had, and only 1/3rd of the Stability access & uptime. This makes it so that for many classes/builds, it simply isn't worth bringing Stability at all because the procs are infrequent and short duration. Utility skills slots & traits are often better used in other ways. <- These are the reasons why Shocking Aura is a problem now, post legend nerf patch."Only lasts 4s and stun once every 2s for 1s" Yeah against 5 opponents. Each opponent can be struck by Shocking Aura once per 2s. So with that 4s of Shocking aura while in a team fight, it can potentially land 10x instant unavoidable interrupts against 5 opponents, for a total of 10s worth of stun collectively and on only a 25s CD. And that 25s CD is for just the actual normal skill, not countering traits or abilities or other sources that cause it to happen much more frequently. Dude that's way too much CC to be healthy for the game after so much counter play vs. CC was removed from the game. And that's not even mentioning the entirely passive nature of it.Doesn't reflect or block damage? Dude it interrupts incoming damage. That's like equal to reflects or blocks if not better, because it is CCing opponents so they themselves are being setup to be counter pressured. Not sure if you're being serious with your responses or not tbh. No one said Shocking Aura stops them from playing the game. People say it bogs the game dynamic down, and it does.It is melee range, this is a factand 3. How people run their builds got nothing to do with what is available in game in terms of counterplay , as a matter of fact elementalist was the most affected by the removal of stability/stunbreak, they removed stability from weaver and doubled the CD of Twist of fate; the stability uptime of : rangers, warriors, guardians, engineers is basically the same here as far as I can remember, yes Soulbeast had Dolyak stance doubled in CD and Corona burst/Foot in the grave removal of stability....other than that there has been no massive reduction in the number of stunbreaks and stability uptimeDoes not reflect or block damage as fact, it interrupts melee attacks from opponents lacking stability Shocking aura works as deterrent and it does its job, now I have seen the idea of changing stun to daze, that would work too.....anything that doesn't change the defensive nature of the skill would work. As long there is counterplay is available in game...you can't really expect the game to be balanced based on what you find "convenient" to run on your buildNo one even plays soulbeast for competitive. Rangers only source of stab got cut in half and now it’s just a very temporary source of stab.> @Supreme.3164 said: Don't want to comment too much but....1.Guardian sustain is not nearly as high as you make it sounds2.Weaver is not used ...because simply it's weak, even more in PvP than WvW where still doesn't see much play ( not even staff weaver is used anymore ), the number of people playing eles has drastically reduced over the years and if my words are not enough, here are some more info from @Blamthrax , supposedly one of the few TOP eles https://arenalabsgw2.podbean.com/e/episode-7-the-last-weaver-feat-blam/ Weaver is fine wouldn’t even call that a top ele player. Ppl played weaver to win mATs after the big patch and someone even got rank1 on it.