Dantheman.3589

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage Video I referenced: Neither of which come close to slapping a thief as hard as it did in 2014. Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot. That right there is a true skill. You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said: This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs without assassins signet . Over 10k with assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher. No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP?? No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do less damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either. Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be. It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent any stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its really bad. The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was proven entirely correctly. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old. Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ? The 12k one didnt use Shadow Arts. It did however use Acrobatics. But I digress. However, the other one, which still did more damage, did in fact use Shadow Arts. Also, are you saying that SA/DrD, the meta version of D/P is bad and that your glass cannon build is "actually usable". Your glass cannon build that is incredibly bad and is played by absolutely noone? And you accuse others of misinformation? The only one spreading misinformation is you when you engineer builds noone used, scenarios that arent realistic, all in a desperate attempt to make it seem like damage back then wasnt higher, and that thief does a lot more damage than it actually does. Your argument is unusable as u seem to think 2 incomparable builds proves anything when compared and again that was why it was moved to the thief forum because it’s a thief meta concern. If u compare 2 builds that are even close 1-1 as I did you would find out that thief damage is generally about the same, not to mention how elite specializations can bring much much greater damage reducing your and the op topic to mere disinformation First of all, the 2 builds are comparable. Your build is the one that isnt comparable. The build we used is as close to 1-1. You, however, didnt like that, so you created a build far more glassy and far more focused on maximising damage (to the point of even doing that song and dance I mentioned that isnt at all realistic) just to try and get close to that old damage (and only close). Knowing that its unlikely any of us could find an equivalent attempt from back then, as people back then didnt create an unrealistic build and scenario to push up damage as high as possible, but merely actual builds doing realistic damage. Also I hate that I keep having you to remind of your own thing, but you used Daredevil. You used an Elite Specialisation when trying to push up that damage, and you maximised it. It still wasnt as high. Also, this is still in the PvP forum, not the thief forum. Bit of an odd thing to lie about. ? the 2 builds aren’t even meant to be close in damage and therefore aren’t comparable, but then again you think ppl are fabricating builds, videos and numbers to prove not even your own point is false Both builds are burst builds that dont go completely glass cannon with no utility. They are 100% comparable. Now your build is a build that goes full glass cannon with no utility, and additionally uses an unrealistic out of combat scenario that in combat will not be achieved. Now this build is indeed not comparable. When we use the comparable builds, we see, clearly, that the old build does a whole lot more damage. Now of course, this isnt at all surprising. If you look back, the only thing that happened to Thieves damage and its multipliers, is that they were nerfed. Quite significantly so. Backstab ate a 25% nerf. Lead Attacks have become much harder to have at 15% when bursting. Exposed Weakness became more conditional and usually worse. So how exactly do you think the damage wouldnt be worse, given that it was nerfed accross the board? I only say people do that, when they objectively did do that. Though I think even you cant deny that you created this build to push damage as high as possible without any concern for its viability (or rather complete lack thereof), and that you created a scenario with no concern of how realistic (or rather not) it is. Then you tried to compare it to builds people actually used, in actual combat scenarios, and tried to act like its "as close to 1-1 as possible". What a joke.Again your argument is invalid, the build I presented had the same amount of utility as the one in 2014. In fact if u take into account the amulet it is tankier. ???

Than wouldn’t it be worse as thief and ranger are already proven otherwise? Despite your attempt at using a bad comparision to push the numbers up (and still falling short), thief has already been proven correct.The thief thread even got moved to the thief sub forum because it was invalid ????

+1 like the best thing on blood is the Rez trait which already got a burst Rez nerf that is significant to the point where 2 Rez wells in a team fight is incredibly ez to cleave hence there is no problem with blood just sustain which is more due to shroud, especially when death magic and signets come into play

No it’s not rated matches as for dailies means unranked or ranked not sure about servers

Than wouldn’t it be worse as thief and ranger are already proven otherwise?

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage Video I referenced: Neither of which come close to slapping a thief as hard as it did in 2014. Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot. That right there is a true skill. You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said: This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs without assassins signet . Over 10k with assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher. No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP?? No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do less damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either. Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be. It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent any stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its really bad. The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was proven entirely correctly. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old. Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ? The 12k one didnt use Shadow Arts. It did however use Acrobatics. But I digress. However, the other one, which still did more damage, did in fact use Shadow Arts. Also, are you saying that SA/DrD, the meta version of D/P is bad and that your glass cannon build is "actually usable". Your glass cannon build that is incredibly bad and is played by absolutely noone? And you accuse others of misinformation? The only one spreading misinformation is you when you engineer builds noone used, scenarios that arent realistic, all in a desperate attempt to make it seem like damage back then wasnt higher, and that thief does a lot more damage than it actually does. Your argument is unusable as u seem to think 2 incomparable builds proves anything when compared and again that was why it was moved to the thief forum because it’s a thief meta concern. If u compare 2 builds that are even close 1-1 as I did you would find out that thief damage is generally about the same, not to mention how elite specializations can bring much much greater damage reducing your and the op topic to mere disinformation First of all, the 2 builds are comparable. Your build is the one that isnt comparable. The build we used is as close to 1-1. You, however, didnt like that, so you created a build far more glassy and far more focused on maximising damage (to the point of even doing that song and dance I mentioned that isnt at all realistic) just to try and get close to that old damage (and only close). Knowing that its unlikely any of us could find an equivalent attempt from back then, as people back then didnt create an unrealistic build and scenario to push up damage as high as possible, but merely actual builds doing realistic damage. Also I hate that I keep having you to remind of your own thing, but you used Daredevil. You used an Elite Specialisation when trying to push up that damage, and you maximised it. It still wasnt as high. Also, this is still in the PvP forum, not the thief forum. Bit of an odd thing to lie about.? the 2 builds aren’t even meant to be close in damage and therefore aren’t comparable, but then again you think ppl are fabricating builds, videos and numbers to prove not even your own point is false

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage Video I referenced: Neither of which come close to slapping a thief as hard as it did in 2014. Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot. That right there is a true skill. You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said: This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs without assassins signet . Over 10k with assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher. No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP?? No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do less damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either. Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be. It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent any stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its really bad. The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was proven entirely correctly. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old. Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ? The 12k one didnt use Shadow Arts. It did however use Acrobatics. But I digress. However, the other one, which still did more damage, did in fact use Shadow Arts. Also, are you saying that SA/DrD, the meta version of D/P is bad and that your glass cannon build is "actually usable". Your glass cannon build that is incredibly bad and is played by absolutely noone? And you accuse others of misinformation? The only one spreading misinformation is you when you engineer builds noone used, scenarios that arent realistic, all in a desperate attempt to make it seem like damage back then wasnt higher, and that thief does a lot more damage than it actually does.Your argument is unusable as u seem to think 2 incomparable builds proves anything when compared and again that was why it was moved to the thief forum because it’s a thief meta concern. If u compare 2 builds that are even close 1-1 as I did you would find out that thief damage is generally about the same, not to mention how elite specializations can bring much much greater damage reducing your and the op topic to mere disinformation

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage Video I referenced: Neither of which come close to slapping a thief as hard as it did in 2014. Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot. That right there is a true skill. You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said: This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs without assassins signet . Over 10k with assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher. No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP?? No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do less damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either. Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be. It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent any stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its really bad. The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was proven entirely correctly. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old.Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ?

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage Video I referenced: Neither of which come close to slapping a thief as hard as it did in 2014. Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot. That right there is a true skill. You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said: This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs without assassins signet . Over 10k with assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher. No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP?? No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do less damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either. Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be. It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent any stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its really bad.The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage

Thief mobility is pretty wild making it pretty safe where as engineer can have good sustain mobility, even damage, though thief can have those too, but usually not all at once. I’d say thief would always be safe at this point- just play with dash whereas engineer- while it’s been good in the meta for a long time might not always be safe

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage Video I referenced: Neither of which come close to slapping a thief as hard as it did in 2014. Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot. That right there is a true skill. You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said: This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs without assassins signet . Over 10k with assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher. No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP?? No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do less damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either. Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be.It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage Video I referenced: Neither of which come close to slapping a thief as hard as it did in 2014. Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot. That right there is a true skill. You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @Dantheman.3589 said: This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs without assassins signet . Over 10k with assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher.No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP??Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage Video I referenced: Neither of which come close to slapping a thief as hard as it did in 2014. Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot. That right there is a true skill. You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling Boy that ain't nothing but photoshop. I also specified same stats as meta and no assassination signet which you broke. Nothing but photoshop???- that was taken from a live stream using same stats as you and guess what- who’s care about assassins signet as the metric you also provided was to get no more than 4K ever on that golem and this would still be more than x2 even without signet. In fact it would be like 2.3x what you claim

So after merging with pet, pre-stacking 10 might and quickness, using the trait that gives % bonus damage with quickness, then attacking you do a lot of damage thus completely invalidating every metric I set forth for you to actually match. Guess what yes there’s might and correction percent damage with fury trait, but that’s not the only reason I merged. Btw take off the 7% dmg mid on fury and the tiny bit of might and that still hits for x2 what you posted from 2014Edit: also guess what if I just didn’t take the traits that give boons on merge, which why would I, they would actually give flat increase to the damage anyways and actually pull up from what I’m calculating as extremely close 9.5k anyways, so not worth complaining

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage Video I referenced: Neither of which come close to slapping a thief as hard as it did in 2014. Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot. That right there is a true skill. You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

It so true though???

OK guys as you can see I have video proof that damage atm is more than x2 what it was in 2014 if we consider maul builds decent atm-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582017577In case u were wondering what that hit for- it was 9.6k just walking up to target

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in generalIf you look at what classes were doing then and doing now, yes, it is. Across the board. which I thought you’d know by now becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher You'd be wrong. Before Path of Fire I barely ever posted on the forums at all, even when I played in PvP. I mean heck in that Era I mained Warrior. You're welcome to browse my posts. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/search/all?page=1&q=mortrialus.3062 I will say Backstab is not doing 9k on golems without assassination signet and it isn't doing 6k on heavy armor targets the way it used to, you know, like the actual video evidence I provided. Actually your right because if like in the video you posted those backstabs had LA stacks or even conditions + might they would be doing significantly more than the 9k and oncheavy golems even more than 6k. In fact you could run that build and be very tanky with insane stealth, mobility and get probably up to 12k backstabs if aforementioned stars align

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage Video I referenced: Neither of which come close to slapping a thief as hard as it did in 2014. Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

Correction This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

Though many modifiers now are vastly superior Lead Attacks is only in combat,Marauder amulet has 50 less power and 60 less ferocity,I don't even count other DA nerfs. U seem to forget that elite specs exist also they tweak some skills yes ex. Swindlers equilibrium now gives power which helps a lot. But not counting De just look at daredevil +5% per dodge which is up to 15% which is really good and again look at bounding dodger another 15% that’s 30% alone from taking daredevil which alone brings the coefficient near what you mentioned also damage per unique condition is nothing to laugh about in DA and for one you have more condition and a completely superior new skill - even the odds which adds 5% more and extra power.So sry no matter which way you look at it modifiers are vastly superior bringing damage to actually great levels in addition to many new skills which are actually great like basically everything in SA rn Yes, go ahead and berzerker amulet bounding dodger into backstab oh wait, you're (just like I said) doing less damage than Vanilla Guild Wars 2. Just like how Bull's Rush with Peak Performance into Arcing Slice Into 100 Blades is less damage than just Bull's Rushing into 100 Blades back in Pre-HoT (Or Earth Shaker into Hundred Blades which is what I used to use back then). Ok I just tested it out on the same build and guess what- ON A LIGHT GOLEM WHERE U GOT 7K, guess what??? I GOT 9K ???This thread is so misinformed except a few post likes chaithe’s which where even when we consider the much lower damage “meta builds” you refer to, guess what even then the combat is just as deadly which speaks volumes about how good elite specializations are

Though many modifiers now are vastly superior Lead Attacks is only in combat,Marauder amulet has 50 less power and 60 less ferocity,I don't even count other DA nerfs. U seem to forget that elite specs exist also they tweak some skills yes ex. Swindlers equilibrium now gives power which helps a lot. But not counting De just look at daredevil +5% per dodge which is up to 15% which is really good and again look at bounding dodger another 15% that’s 30% alone from taking daredevil which alone brings the coefficient near what you mentioned also damage per unique condition is nothing to laugh about in DA and for one you have more condition and a completely superior new skill - even the odds which adds 5% more and extra power.So sry no matter which way you look at it modifiers are vastly superior bringing damage to actually great levels in addition to many new skills which are actually great like basically everything in SA rn

Though many modifiers now are vastly superiorWhich now just imo shows anet is balancing properly if the damage is the same on average builds

He means "check warrior damage now and check warrior damage in core, then compare those two" I already checked the thief damage of similar builds and got the exact same and sometimes higher though so why would i

I already tested it and u seem to be wrong. A video is useful if it’s helpful, but anyone can tell that their builds are way different and figure it’s just not 1-1 and if they test this 1 case? They will find it’s not much different just certain skills and equipment that are different. I just see near zero evidence that this is overall true Alright, post your videos on Berserker Amulet no Assassin Signet Back Stabs hitting harder than the 8k they were hitting in Core GW2 Again that would be completely irrelevant a video is useful if it’s helpful which in this case a single extreme case backstab doesn’t prove that the entire game has less damage than it did before. Actually what I’d suggest this being moved to the thief sub forum as it is only about thief and only a thief meta issue not pvp in general This doesn't apply to thieves. It applies to every build. Thief is just the quickest example because there are so many sweaty pre-hot thief pvp videos. No it doesn’t apply to anything but thief’s as you only posted 2 thief builds that aren’t 1-1 except for the fact that they are popular. This is a thief meta issue not a pvp issue You are more than welcome to go on warrior and record yourself doing a 100 blades burst and comparing it against a 2012-2015 hundred blades burst on the same stat set and proving me wrong. There are plenty of Berserker's Amulet warrior PvP videos to compare yourself with. Don’t need to compare with warrior lol they are thief builds ?