Scourge is fundamentally not suited for PvP. ANet should seriously consider disabling it in PvP

[SevlisBavles.3059]

There is no way to rework it to be similar enough to WvW and PvE and still be balanced in PvP. Scourge is killing PvP, one single class is nuking this entire gamemode. Go for broke and just disable its use in PvP, you won't have to devote resources to balancing it, you won't have the constant headache of people complaining about it, and you can spend your team finetuning classes that aren't fundamentally disruptive to the gamemode.

[ovenglove.9528]

I don't think socurge is good for pvp, but removing it is a bit hyperbolic.

 

Scourge and prot holo have made condi builds not great for quite a while, they have too much cleanse.

 

What if desert shroud was a chanelled ability like overloads where casting other skills interuppted shroud?

[SevlisBavles.3059]

Removing it is not hyperbolic. There is no middle ground. Either it is completely oppressive, or it gets nerfed to the point where it is useless. Its entire design is flawed for PvP.

[Shao.7236]

I find it to be better than it was right now. Waiting out Barrier is another alternative. Since the changes people have been busting through barrier a lot more than before with proper focus.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

this reminds me of internet censorship. don't be surprised when they come for your class next.

[Genesis.5169]

No.

I suppose we should remove pvp out of pvp so people don't cry when they die, or come to the forums to remove an entire spec out of pvp.

 

Also read my sig people follow it and slowly but surely we will fix pvp.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Arheundel.6451]

3 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

No.

I supposed we should remove pvp out of pvp so people don't cry when they die, or come to the forums to remove an entire spec out of pvp.

 

Also read my sig people follow it and slowly but surely we will fix pvp.

People get downvoted, reported and banned for following your suggestions so...no, we can't tell people anything

[zipiyzape.3781]

yes, is broken, is a build that does too much and you don't have too think, just hit buttons, get close to people and they explode, I remember that mirage was also completely busted a year ago and you could just mash all your skills and get kills, it's mostly the same with scourge, when I just want to relax I just create a level 1 scourge, get the meta build and just around killing people

 

it's funny that the counter to scourge is to run around and try to decap as much kitten as possible, you can't win a teamfight against a scourge

Edited August 25, 2021 by zipiyzape.3781

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

just nerf necro. Its barely been touched in years

[Master Ketsu.4569]

The problem comes down to the fact that Anet caved to the casuals and brought back its shroud skill on self mechanic. Scourge was fine during the time shroud skills only were on shades, because during that time the class actually required a brain to play. I had tried scourge during that time and with good planning, the spec was still entirely playable and dare I say fun. 

Should scourge be disabled in PvP? No, that would be a lame way to deal with it. The ideal scenario would be to revert it back to no shroud on self and tell the casuals to L2P.  Because then the class becomes balanced by the fact that it takes time and consideration to cover the point rather than being able to just walk on to it and instantly say "this point is mine now me scourge me stand on point me press buttons oook oooook AAAAAH EEEEEE EEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE".  Scourge will never be beneficial for the meta as long as it works like this. 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Master Ketsu.4569
simplify

[Ragebru.1397]

Would love to see a montage of all the times a scourge necro sits on a point and doesn't even have to dodge roll. Literally standing there facetanking everything. 

[Kuma.1503]

 Virgin Mirage Mains: I only have one dodge. Uninstalling. Anet hates mesmers. 

 

Chad Scourge Mains: Bro you can dodge in this game?

 

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 8/25/2021 at 5:08 PM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

just nerf necro. Its barely been touched in years

 

This isn't true. I've watched necro get reworks to its traitlines that affected its traits that granted cooldown reduction, only to have the resulting playstyle get swiftly nerfed due to complaint without the cooldown reduction being returned to them. This happened to signets, spectrals, wells and some other things as well. 

 

Scourge is annoying, but to claim they haven't been getting rolled by nerfs isn't true. Even scourge itself being just baseline viable is relatively new. They went a couple years without seeing the meta at all. 

 

@OP

 

Nah. Scourge deserves a spot in the meta. It isn't annoying enough to warrant complete removal. If it continues to overperform, they just need to shave barrier/ minions being able to transfer condis from necro to their opponent a little each iteration until it settles down. 

 

 

On 8/25/2021 at 6:19 PM, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

this point is mine now me scourge me stand on point me press buttons oook oooook AAAAAH EEEEEE EEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE".  

 

The torment rework cut this significantly y'know. standing in circles is still punished but it doesn't dissuade melee players completely anymore. 

 

Quote

Should scourge be disabled in PvP? No, that would be a lame way to deal with it. The ideal scenario would be to revert it back to no shroud on self and tell the casuals to L2P. 

 

This nerfed it so much that literally nobody played it. There has to be some kind of middle ground. you're essentially suggesting the same thing as OP. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[SevlisBavles.3059]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

There has to be some kind of middle ground. 

There isn't, and that is the problem with Scourge.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

On 8/25/2021 at 3:19 PM, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

The problem comes down to the fact that Anet caved to the casuals and brought back its shroud skill on self mechanic. Scourge was fine during the time shroud skills only were on shades, because during that time the class actually required a brain to play. I had tried scourge during that time and with good planning, the spec was still entirely playable and dare I say fun. 

i can see why people thought it was unplayable. the radius of shades are tiny without sand savant (for faster recharge) and the cooldown of them was too long with sand savant. so when you're pressured for any amount of time you get forced out of shades and the spec falls apart.

[Vancho.8750]

4 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

i can see why people thought it was unplayable. the radius of shades are tiny without sand savant (for faster recharge) and the cooldown of them was too long with sand savant. so when you're pressured for any amount of time you get forced out of shades and the spec falls apart.

They could have made it so it leaves a shade under the necro so you get the extra shade always, but not be like the dumbed down version where you kitten up and run up to people and still get rewarded that is right now. They could have made the moving shade a trait that lets you have it on the move but not get to spawn the extra ones. 
They could have added 1/4 cast time on the shade skills, so CCed Scourge is different from non CCed.
But here we are with a class that has low CD wells as main mechanic and they can move, and it will get more and more numerical nerfs till it becomes useless.   

[Stand The Wall.6987]

2 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

They could have made it so it leaves a shade under the necro so you get the extra shade always, but not be like the dumbed down version where you kitten up and run up to people and still get rewarded that is right now. They could have made the moving shade a trait that lets you have it on the move but not get to spawn the extra ones. 

huh. how is this different from what we got now?

[Vancho.8750]

59 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

huh. how is this different from what we got now?

Area of effect , shades are area denial, but now since you can move around with them you are area denial + you leave bonus areas. You have large area of effectiveness currently. If you have self moving shade with no extra shades I can for example pull or knockback the scourge out of the team, if It is the static shade I can still pull or knockback the scourge off its shades and it is now vulnerable to attacks.
Currently if you pull a scourge it still hits your team and you dragged the shade to you with it, also they can move after you with the shade, if it is static they can't move their effective area constantly.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Vancho.8750

[Master Ketsu.4569]

On 8/27/2021 at 11:47 AM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

This nerfed it so much that literally nobody played it. There has to be some kind of middle ground. you're essentially suggesting the same thing as OP. 

A good middle ground would be reverting it to no shroud on self, but also reducing the cooldown on MSS to 4 seconds in PvE and 6s in pvp/wvw. This way it would be balanced by being able to reposition shades more frequently and scourge skills would be more limited by their cooldown on F2-F5 than by waiting to summon shades.

[eyelogix.1654]

On 8/26/2021 at 6:27 AM, jwhite.7012 said:

Would love to see a montage of all the times a scourge necro sits on a point and doesn't even have to dodge roll. Literally standing there facetanking everything. 

Fear, fear and what about more fear? I swear i hate them and the barrier is just nuts 😐

[Arheundel.6451]

On 8/27/2021 at 10:01 PM, Highlie.7641 said:

It should be like Dead eye , Useless.   You guy's are too biased though, you give thieves kitten for being one sided but 3/4 of the community where against Deadeye since it was bad for Spvp.  Now look at the comments from  scourges and DH's. You are biased and it killed gw2, not the dev's, You. 

The devs killed GW2, they deemed more important to sell copies than having a working game...hence they released all this specs that play themselves , without them, the population of GW2 would drop by more than 50%

[Swagg.9236]

On 8/22/2021 at 12:53 PM, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

Removing it is not hyperbolic. There is no middle ground. Either it is completely oppressive, or it gets nerfed to the point where it is useless. Its entire design is flawed for PvP.

Welcome to the crux of the issue regarding GW2's PvP at large.  You'll find that this sort of paradigm is reflected in every single build--meta or otherwise.  You'll also see, judging by the forum reactions, that you're probably going to be derided for speaking the truth rather than invited to open discussion about why GW2 has the design issues that it does.

[Mik.3401]

But why not just nerf it further? I think if it had damage drastically lowered it would become balanced

[Swagg.9236]

9 minutes ago, Mik.3401 said:

But why not just nerf it further? I think if it had damage drastically lowered it would become balanced

GW2 is a very binary game, and it has traditionally relied on number adjustments to "balance" PvP content.  The problem is that this design philosophy only results in two distinct phases for any given build:  exceedingly oppressive and overrepresented by the community, or ineffective against the former and thus abandoned by the community.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Swagg.9236

[Leonidrex.5649]

you guys need to relax with your " bad design for pvp NERF " mentality.
Almost every single kittening class is " bad design " for pvp.
Rev has almost no kittening cooldowns and doesnt have to swap weapons untill focused, so he can sit on you offensively forever untll pressured and his defensive cooldowns will always be ready.
Thief has ACTUALLY no cooldowns and instant teleports daze unblockable boonsteal damage, poison weakness might thing as its skill.
Guard as its class mechanic has kittening PULSING AOE and PULSING PASSIVES and INSTANT EFFECTS which is all community dislikes right?
Necro mechanic is having 3x more hp then others, fun and engaging indeed!
Mesmer has clones and insta shatters, everyone hates it.
Ranger has pet AI ( reeee omg pet REEEE )
and we are left with 3 classesm warrior, ele, engi.
If I knew enough about them I could pull some design kitten, like weaver hurr durr dodge spam 10k barrier lets go or engi perma 25might gaming.