Let's talk about tradeoffs

[tyrellian.3706]

There's been a lot of focus on espec weapons and not much on everything else.

Based on what we've seen so far, tradeoffs are going to get built into whatever espec we get.  It might help to guess what those tradeoffs will be now, and point out problems with them before they happen. 

 

Useful questions to ask:

• What game mode and role is this class currently less strong in?
• What's preventing this class from being strong in that game mode?
• What would make this class too strong if its current weakness in that game mode were removed?
• What will Anet change to fix these things?
• What are they likely to miss?

Some (simplified) examples from the revealed especs:
 

Mesmer:

• What game mode and role is this class currently less strong in?: WvW, squad/zerg
• What's preventing this class from being strong in that game mode?: Clones die before reaching enemy, attacks are single-target-focussed.
• What would make this class too strong if its current weakness in that game mode were removed?: Massive clone spam making it impossible for enemies to target effectively.
• What did Anet change to fix these things?: Remove clone physical presence and fixation mechanic, replace with blades.  Provide multi-target/piercing attacks.
• What did they miss?: Projectile hate is abundant in WvW zergs.
   

Necromancer:

• What game mode and role is this class currently less strong in?: PvE, boon support/DPS
• What's preventing this class from being strong in that game mode?: Selfish/low damage skills
• What would make this class too strong if its current weakness in that game mode were removed?: Tankiness from shroud.
• What did Anet change to fix these things?: Add DPS/support skills, reduce shroud tankiness for espec.
• What did they miss?: Party compositions work better with individual supports providing full coverage for a small set of boons, rather than partial coverage for a large set of boons.

Reply filling in the gaps for engineer.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by tyrellian.3706
Formatting

[Amadeus.5687]

Interesting thought experiment, but I can't pu in the last two yet I feel like; I will give it a go:

 

• What game mode and role is this class currently less strong in?: Condi DPS PvE, DPS cleave WvW and Condi DPS PvP
• What's preventing this class from being strong in that game mode?: No elite spec to support condi in PvE and weapons + kits with condi being to weak, weak dmg/tanky ratio for cleaving DPS in WvW and again noting to support condi in PvP and you make to many utility and trait trade offs to get a "somewhat" build
• What would make this class too strong if its current weakness in that game mode were removed?: Depends a lot on where we get the condition dmg buffs from, but it could make us to versatile with the vast toolkit we got access to
• What did Anet change to fix these things?: 
• What did they miss?:  

[Esorono.1039]

It's hard for me to say with certain truth, as I mainly focus on Solo Open World PvE, but that is where I feel both E-Specs shine. Much like elementalists they are balanced around the potential of doing everything at the same time, you can either focus on something using something like Berserkers, or focus being on doing everything with Celestials. Both Holosmith and Scrapper have large potential build options, but if they try to focus too much, they risk being outdone by other professions. This weird identity given to them however makes them exceptionally bulky if built that way as they are slightly above average in both healing and defense. It is not too difficult to sustain 25 stacks of might and vulnerability, as well as keep up perma quickness. And because they can survive easily in more DPS focused gear they can become a juggernaut on the field.

 

But when running with groups, I found this not to be very essential. Almost everyone had might stacking builds that shared them with the group, and most had vulnerability on one of their attacks, between 5 people it is very easy to get everyone to 25 stacks of might and the enemy with 25 stacks of vulnerability. It's possible to give quickness though, but the process you will also knock everything back which is not ideal in anything not involving a singular boss you are trying to burn with immunity to knock back, or in better conditions a breakbar.

 

I feel the biggest problem with Engineer is that somewhat similar to Elementalists, their support is very generic, quickness is neat they don't really bring anything special to the table in terms of support. They can do a bit of everything but that isn't really needed when you can specialize and be really good at it. Furthermore, engineers seem to be designed in a vacuum, the best example of this I can think of is that the base damage of sword/hammer are both slow and semi-weak, but it's stupidly easy to keep perma stacks of max might/vuln that it makes the weapon damage fairly decent, and quickness makes it so that their weapons are fairly quick. But when buffs start flying everywhere and everyone gets a ton of stacks of  everything, that no longer matters as now everyone is quicker and does more damage than the engi. It gives me early Reaper vibes, where it was amazing in a vacuum until you shoved it on a team, then the flaws become very apparent.

 

In truth, I don't really know how they can fix this, as unlike with most professions, the problem isn't the core mechanics, but the utility skills. They have the potential to do just about anything with Kits and have access to way too many skills. It may only take a light push to accidently put Engi into SS tier. While fairly different, I do TTRPG skill balancing and this is surprisingly easy with a Jack-Of-All-Trades class, the moment you make them really good at one thing, their slightly above ability in everything and massive move-kit makes them very powerful and outshine almost everything.

 

TL;DR: Engineers are held back by Kits, it was bad for future updates and now they are stuck with balancing around them.