What about changing signets to be a fully passive skill (with no active command)

[anduriell.6280]

Ranger has the signets which are very underwhelming generally speaking and they work no different on how they would do for any other professions. 

 

To give them some differentiating characteristics and accommodate all those players which preffer to not to have so many skills why not make them passive skills with no active effects but to have a passive effect and other effect which triggers in specific conditions. 

It would not require much change it would simply make them work like traits. For example. 

 

Signet of Stone: Provides passive additional toughness. When  health falls under 50% Signet_of_Stone_(active_effect)  for 3 seconds ( iCD 40 seconds )

Signet of Renewal: Provides passive health regeneration. When  is effected for more than 3 conditions the effect cleanses up to 5 conditions( iCD 50 seconds ) 

Signet of the Hunt: Provides additional movement speed over current (10% accumulative over current movement speed) . When an attack is blocked or reflected the ranger gains 10 stacks of  Unblockable (6s) ( iCD 40 seconds )

Signet of the Wild: Provides additional Ferocity.  When is affected by movement impairing conditions (similar conditions requirements as for Predator's Onslaught ) it cast  stability and resistance (iCD 40 seconds ) .

 

 Brutish Seals:  Would be reworked to improve the effects of the passives ( doubling the health regeneration, stats gained or accumulative speed ) and reduce the iCD of the secondary effects. 

 

This will not change the effects overall (it has only changes in signets of the Hunt and Wild ) and it would open the class for that people that preffer to focus in the weapon skills and pet management over the skills. It would also give a differentiating flavor and identity to the ranger as lately i feel like the classes are merging into feeling the same. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by anduriell.6280
movement speed

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[anduriell.6280]

13 minutes ago, Acyk.9671 said:

So you want the old Signet of the Wild back? We do indeed lack stability but i don't want to play markmanship in zergs.

Yeah i mean current effect is only used in the meme immo build with a very inconsistent effects, other players complain about too much immob for the druid, have cast immobilise on passive wont work very well and ranger really need some stability back in their toolset. 

 

You don't need to use Marksmanship if you don't need the CD reduction. Otherwise i see it like a nice compromise, you need to go glassier if you want that additional stability in a shorter cooldown.  

 

I do understand CmC don't like passive traits and I am with him on that but what about an utility skill slot which the player has to sacrifice. It would be the same as having the active skill but it would trigger passively in exchange to have less control (stability would be cast when affected by immobilize or chilled) . 

 

The animation is very pretty thou, it would be good it it kept it or it can be reused for other reworks. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by anduriell.6280
animation is pretty

[Xaylin.1860]

"Alexa, please set my Signet Ranger on autopilot." 🤣

 

You don't really think that after the 300s ICD trait "rework" ANet would ever do something like you just suggested? Looking at MMOs, GW2 already is one with a very specific and limited amount of skills per active template. Personally, I don't see the need to make it even less challenging. It also doesn't distinguish Ranger from other classes considering it only affects one specific group of Utilities. Does that mean that non-Signet Rangers don't want to focus on their pet? To be honest, as I insinuated with my initial sentence, it appears that you're just looking for a very low maintenance build. No judgement from my side. But there is nothing to be gained from this for Rangers as a class.

 

That aside, passives are bad for balance for a reason. That's not just CmCs opinion.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Xaylin.1860

[anduriell.6280]

1 minute ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

You don't really think that after the 300s ICD trait "rework" ANet would ever do something like you just suggested?

Currently the signet is in 40 seconds CD for 3s of immunity (in pvp). This will change nothing, it will just make it go on auto mode. Also the signet is visible to enemy players (in the status bar) in opossition to trait which is not. 

 

So i dont see any real incovenience there, effects are the same, enemies can bait the signet effect and more importantly it allows other players that want to learn how to manage the pet but for the moment can not deal with all of it to have a build choice. If you don't like passive utility skills dont use them, you have plenty of other choices.

[Xaylin.1860]

That is not what I said.

You are asking for Signets actives to be turned into passively triggered effects. In PvP, all traits that work like this have been hit with 300s ICD. The same should happen to Signets if your change was implemented. That's why I don't see the point in it. ANet clearly doesn't approve of gameplay that is passive to this extent.

 

I don't see any inconvenience (on the Rangers side). I just don't see the point.

[anduriell.6280]

1 hour ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

You are asking for Signets actives to be turned into passively triggered effects. In PvP, all traits that work like this have been hit with 300s ICD. The same should happen to Signets if your change was implemented. That's why I don't see the point in it. ANet clearly doesn't approve of gameplay that is passive to this extent.

I find interesting how you extrapolate your opinion as the Anet devs official statements.

In any case i doubt Anet has ever pronuncianted about this because there are no precedent of this type of skills in the game. For what you are describing it sounds more like a your opinion and a you problem situation.

 

In any case it is not like the signets (or their actives) are being used otherwise and this type of skills also have its uses. Some players will definitely start using those even if its just in fractals or strike missions. Some could even have some utility in wvw for some players.

 

Think of it as training wheels for new players.

Edited August 24, 2021 by anduriell.6280
addtional comment

[Swagger.1459]

On 8/23/2021 at 3:50 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

Ranger has the signets which are very underwhelming generally speaking and they work no different on how they would do for any other professions. 

 

To give them some differentiating characteristics and accommodate all those players which preffer to not to have so many skills why not make them passive skills with no active effects but to have a passive effect and other effect which triggers in specific conditions. 

It would not require much change it would simply make them work like traits. For example. 

 

Signet of Stone: Provides passive additional toughness. When  health falls under 50% Signet_of_Stone_(active_effect)  for 3 seconds ( iCD 40 seconds )

Signet of Renewal: Provides passive health regeneration. When  is effected for more than 3 conditions the effect cleanses up to 5 conditions( iCD 50 seconds ) 

Signet of the Hunt: Provides additional movement speed over current (10% accumulative over current movement speed) . When an attack is blocked or reflected the ranger gains 10 stacks of  Unblockable (6s) ( iCD 40 seconds )

Signet of the Wild: Provides additional Ferocity.  When is affected by movement impairing conditions (similar conditions requirements as for Predator's Onslaught ) it cast  stability and resistance (iCD 40 seconds ) .

 

 Brutish Seals:  Would be reworked to improve the effects of the passives ( doubling the health regeneration, stats gained or accumulative speed ) and reduce the iCD of the secondary effects. 

 

This will not change the effects overall (it has only changes in signets of the Hunt and Wild ) and it would open the class for that people that preffer to focus in the weapon skills and pet management over the skills. It would also give a differentiating flavor and identity to the ranger as lately i feel like the classes are merging into feeling the same. 

Devs were actively trying to get rid of and lessen passive stuff. I would suggest just pressing the button when you need a signet. 

[anduriell.6280]

19 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Devs were actively trying to get rid of and lessen passive stuff. I would suggest just pressing the button when you need a signet. 

ok let me set this simple example, btw you seem specialy angry today. 

 

New ranger in wvw, does not know how the class work in pvp . But it uses a signet build: SoS, SoW and SoR.  This will allow them to have the oportunity to learn the ropes while experiencing the gamemode.

While playing this new ranger realizes most of the longbow shots are reflected. So while learning how to position and looking for the kitten in the armor and how to cancel skills,  equips SoH instead SoR. Now you get a new ranger who gets less allies dead because of reflects.And less hate toward the profession as result.

 

And if you think a new player in wvw would not use this signets think again. Although this skills would work just while learning the ropes or in very specific builds as signets are easy to spot and bait they would not work against experienced players.

 

And again i dont believe  Anet has ever said anything about utility slots having passives, there are plenty of those in game. You totally miss the point of nerfing the passive traits and you are doing exactly the same as the other dude expresing your opinion like is an official statement from Anet.

 

i have yet to read a valid counterpoint to having the signets as passive utilities.

[Beddo.1907]

On 8/23/2021 at 9:50 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

Signet of Stone: Provides passive additional toughness. When  health falls under 50% Signet_of_Stone_(active_effect)  for 3 seconds ( iCD 40 seconds )

Signet of Renewal: Provides passive health regeneration. When  is effected for more than 3 conditions the effect cleanses up to 5 conditions( iCD 50 seconds ) 

Signet of the Hunt: Provides additional movement speed over current (10% accumulative over current movement speed) . When an attack is blocked or reflected the ranger gains 10 stacks of  Unblockable (6s) ( iCD 40 seconds )

Signet of the Wild: Provides additional Ferocity.  When is affected by movement impairing conditions (similar conditions requirements as for Predator's Onslaught ) it cast  stability and resistance (iCD 40 seconds ) .

Ok so here is the issue.

Signet of stone becomes worthless since everyone knows when to stop damaging you instead of you being able to time it right into a burst.

Signet of Renewal having a cleanse that clears a part of condi burst instead of the whole burst is pointless.

Signet of the Hunt is practically the same except you can't control when you burst so it's a no no.

Signet of the Wild is poorly writen so I don't even know what you mean.

 

Ranger needs harder mechanics that reward you for proper use NOT less mechanics for lesser reward.

That's how you end up as a class that nobody wants in pve/pvp/wvw because X class does the same thing but they are not the "noob class".

There wasn't, isn't and won't be a point where making sigils automatic makes ranger (or any other class) better.

 

[Xaylin.1860]

"The other dude..." 😆

 

Okay, I'll tell you my secret. I it is comprehensive reading skills, knowledge transfer and... common sense. No premonition, clairvoyance, advanced mathematics nor hidden agenda involved. ANet has made remarks about passive play on several occasions (not only defensive mechanics but even on damage procs that are too easy to trigger). If you want to check out the reasoning behind the 300s-change read up on the Feb 2020 patch which does directly concern at least Signet of Renewal (Stunbreak) and probably also Signet of Stone (Invuln).

 

Wether you value or consider my input or recognize parallels betweens passive traits and passive skills, is up to you, of course. Luckily, convincing you most certainly isn't a me problem. I have nothing to gain here. 😉

[anduriell.6280]

you are right, i am not an anet developer either.

But in any case we can entertain the idea of this kind of skills can be possible otherwise there is no conversation to be had if we shut down the ideas from the get go. That's not fun.

I get you dont like the idea thou.

 

(dude is a neutral term right? it is a bit confusing for me as sometimes i got told it is other times it isnt) 

Edited August 25, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Abyssisis.3971]

I do like the idea of brutish seals trait doubling the passive effect along with cooldown reduction. Tho the existing cooldowns could be reduced a bit to make them a little more attractive to take.

 

I don’t agree with the active becoming a passive effect based on whatever requirements to trigger it. 

 

[bigo.9037]

I really dont want to sound demeaning or anything, but this is just a terrible idea imo. 

The last thing we need is more passive effects. maybe if you kept these changes to pve ONLY i wouldnt mind them, but why complicate things even further? is it really that hard for some people to press a button on their keyboard? 

I already see an occasional soulbeast in wvw using MM and running  the signet trait + utility, and its a pain in the butt.
I dont see why we need to cater so much to players who seemingly want to play this game and enjoy it but.. are unable to press a button? gw2 is the MMORPG I've played over the years with the FEWEST amount of skills. most games have multiple rows and stacks, usually bordering on needing a dedicated macrokeyboard or a mouse with extra buttons on it. you can fit nearly every single skill on the number row. that should be easy enough. 

If pve players want to play on easy mode and focus on their pets, weapon interactions.. they could just go to an easier area? or play with tankier gear? pick easier fights? You seem to think that new players are so dumb and so bad they arent even able to press a skill when they need it. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by bigo.9037

[The Boz.2038]

Does clicking a skill overwhelm you? Is the choice between active and passive effect breaking your brain? Why would you want to dumb this down so much?

[Bilgato.8034]

On 8/23/2021 at 12:50 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

...accommodate all those players which preffer to not to have so many skills...

 

 

 

That's pretty much how it's set up now, you can play without ever having to worry about activating signets, the only time I ever use them is when I'm playing with others in open pve situations and it looks like a total party wipe is only a second away, when soloing I really just forget about them and only focus on weapon skills, and personal strategy.
I'll explain so you don't take me as a 'forum pro', or someone who doesn't apply the advice they give, to themselves.
I am remedial beyond belief, so much so that you'd be disgusted at my level of ineptitude, I can't even play really in groups because of 'things', or any other MMOs because of their deep-deep complexities, I can't even do a lot of things in GW2 as it's just too much for me, so I run the easiest ranged class (preferably with a pet, because it gets lonely out there when you can't play with others without being more of a burden than you're worth) with the least amount of complexities and buttons as is possible.
You won't really be missing out on anything by running straight passive signets.

 

[Avatar.3568]

On 8/24/2021 at 5:27 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

I find interesting how you extrapolate your opinion as the Anet devs official statements.

In any case i doubt Anet has ever pronuncianted about this because there are no precedent of this type of skills in the game. For what you are describing it sounds more like a your opinion and a you problem situation.

 

In any case it is not like the signets (or their actives) are being used otherwise and this type of skills also have its uses. Some players will definitely start using those even if its just in fractals or strike missions. Some could even have some utility in wvw for some players.

 

Think of it as training wheels for new players.

I use them regularly in pvp (hunt and renuvual (not used togheter) ) snd the ferocity signet is used in some pve builds a, and signet of stone is still signet of stone

 

Bringing them to full passivs would make them actually useless in every game mode excluding open world. 

 

There are builds that uses them and Ranger really does not need more passive gameplay, it's holding the class back already