"Need help at XYZ" "My grp has been fighting zergs all night"

[Naxos.2503]

I've seen that very occasionally on servers we got linked with, but that's been a long time ago. Most of the time everyone is fairly cordial now, if a bit snarky. But I reckon that's a healthy snark.

I dont request to join squads most of the time, I run with a small party as an outlier to an existing squad. I'm playing glass cannon exclusively, so I dont want them to deal with resing me constantly when a pebble get stuck in my boot. If a squad invite, then that's another matter, I'll join in, and stay on tag. But I dont do teamspeaks. After a time, it's not too hard to know when a push is happening, and when everyone's meant to stack (just watch everyone else). 

Even when I'm not inside the squad, I noticed that people go out of their way to res me, or make stands with me regardless of situation. I dont think it has anything to do with server pride, but I think EU in general is way more chill community wise, and it's beneficial for players like me

Edited August 25, 2021 by Naxos.2503

[AlCapwnd.7834]

On 8/23/2021 at 10:55 PM, cesmode.4257 said:

Then open up your tags to randoms and/or stop booting randoms out. 

Saw some discussion in WvW tonight that my server didnt have enough numbers to fight larger zergs.  The guy complaining had his tag set to invite only.  So, as a random I went somewhere else, another tag, another borderlands. You lost this body.  Im only one person, but if a dozen or more people were deterred the same way I was, then that does matter.

 

Then joined up with a tag later in the evening only to get booted because I wasnt part of the two guilds in the squad.  Again... this isn't helping the cause of the server having issues against large zergs.  Enjoy your niche small group of 11 people.  I guess the one extra was a burden?  

 

tldr; stop being cliquey and open things up so that we randoms can join up, hop on comms, and help out.  Closing it off to just your little group of friends and then complaining about why we dont have sizeable zergs is just silly.  Most tags are open and its a fun experience, but tonight was the most unpleasant in WvW that Ive experienced in a long while.

Sometimes tags run private because they do guild training. Most guild will recruit comp players (FB, Scourges, Heal Scrapper, ELE/ REV DPS) Most guild or zergs do not want Rangers, Thief's, mesmers, necros that dont strip, and other pointless classes in a zerg fight. It took me a while to realise this. But once I did and I learned comp classes. WVW became A LOT more fun! Our commander will allow in non zerg classes into our zerg, however you will not get put into a comp group with stab, cleanses ect...

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

the mesmer part isn't really true, as gravity well + veil and stripsupport is big on chronos and always welcome. afaik all good guilds welcome a few of them

necros... well issue is that most people are really not good at playing reaper. and reaper rarely gets close enough to do sufficient work

 

many people these days just never even tried to run with a competitive guild, i feel. from what i remember, very few guild get applicants, even the best guilds in the game have only very few, if any, recruits, amongst the last  ... years even, i feel.

 

u simply need a specific level of understanding the game to play coordinated. randoms often refuse to cooperate and their lacking understanding of our movement can mess up a lot, especially on bad numbers.

 

people that get kicked may be not on voice, or be on random classes. if the squad gets full, and some veteran player asks for an invite, the general of the squad (lieutnant, can be declared by com) may just kick some "randoms" to make space - as there simply is a cap for the squad of 50 players.

 

it's these days rare enough to even get a full blob together... so not a very big issue.

IF u are motivated, just try to apply to some guild, maybe u'll enjoy it, maybe not. likely u will learn sth out of it, even if it is too tryhard for you. then u stilll learnt likely a lot about the game and get new ideas about "how to play Wvw". there's a lot more community outside of map- and teamchat lol. or even outside of the boundary of servers.

[Boh.4568]

It always depends on the objective of the tag. Of course if you are trying to join scrims in low borderlands they are almost certainly GvG or at least people in the same VC doing blob duels again and again all day in the same spot. Those will straight up refuse you or at least ask you to use a meta class and join VC. That's understandable because if the enemy blob has a proper comp and you just clown around yours, you will get pulled and melted in seconds.

Even other tags that at a first glance seem randomly going through the map might be guild raids, or VC groups looking for semi-organizes skirmishes with other groups.

Private squads could even be just a group of friends doing their thing and not wanting too much people to follow them. A lot of pugs see the commander tag and they immediately think "oh the big strong zerg is here, time to clap some cheeks", and then they are disappointed in the 15-man squad fighting another 15-man squad.

The only ones I don't get are those invite-only squads that actively advertise themselves in map chat to join them, but ONLY if you join their VC, and that's fine they might want to do some organized content........but then they just PPT random stuff and avoid the big fights. Why should I join your Discord (or, worse, your TeamSpeak) just to roam around and kill NPCs?

[subversiontwo.7501]

On 8/25/2021 at 7:53 AM, gebrechen.5643 said:

I partially agree with the op, but still I see why people tag hidden.

The big problem with GW2 are self-sustaining builds. Yes, you should be able to have good fights in small scale, but a huge group should by definition (and if they know how to cleanse, dodge, dps) be always superior to a solo player. In GW2 this isn't necessarily true. That's why clouding is so popular (and stupid at once)

This leads to mostly terrible gameplay as you can see on many servers these days. One server sits inside SMC, sieges it up to the roof and all that's going on is a bunch of solo players  (up to 50 per side) shooting each other to no end.

This is an interesting side to it.

 

However, I think it harkens back to the same things I keep trying to bring up as well. In the early days people would play the strategic layer of the game with home defense, corner defense and tiebreakers more. Some servers still home defend but quite alot of servers stopped doing that quite early when they understood the impact of nightcapping. However, a development in the recent year or two is that alot of servers have figured out that most players who can not decide where to go tend to end up on EB (just look at these forums and I'm sure you'll see some post from a new player claiming to be overwhelmed getting responses to just go to EB and follow the tag). By extension this means that alot of servers have issues forming quality squads on EB because there are just too many new, inexperienced or aloof players taking up spots on that map. As a result they tend to organise more on the borders (at least the alpines) and then leave EB as an overflow.

 

Furthermore, some servers have figured out that their opponents will also have issues forming good groups there so a relatively experienced cloud (of people who like clouding and people who sit in queue to a tagged map) will be enough to deal with the advances of only loosely organised groups. They also tie that back to the old understanding of the mode. Where they know to play the strategy of keeping their corner clean and just maintaining SM as a tiebreaker, point farm and map-control extension (being able to treb any tower from the second level, being able to cannon attempts at the castle from the second level etc.). SM is an excellent objective to hold like that because it makes the map very comfortable to lounge on. Taking SM is far from difficult but it does have a certain barrier of entry that requires a group strong enough to sustain the siege and clouding from all those favourable positions. It is, however, a getting  "my" players to map issue.

 

The result is that some servers still play HBL like that and some servers play EB like that. Some servers are uninterested or incapable of doing it on either map.

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[subversiontwo.7501]

On 8/24/2021 at 8:11 AM, SweetPotato.7456 said:

These is the type of players I deal with everyday. Now they go invisible tag or ask another person to tag. They only want to play with their own people and do their own thing, their intention is not for the server.  

Just block them and carry on doing what you like doing, server pride is dead.

I hate to break it to you, but server pride has never existed. Things like tags and scouts have always had this uneasy relationship of cooperating to navigate the ladder. However, it has never been for server pride or for attempting to become the best server. Already in the early tournament days you had the same general attitude towards the ladder that we have now (where "tier 1" [gold] and "tier 5" are generally unwanted and most servers find tiers 2-4 to have the best content and matchups). Tags may appreciate scouting and they may appreciate it more when the server is pressed for content. However, there was never some misplaced pride, it was all about practicality, and when the server is sitting pretty they tend to care less.

 

The ladder itself, as you should know, has always been tainted by the mismatch of regions and coverage-based scoring. SEA has never had a good place to be in, for some reason they've been prone to clump up instead of spreading out and Anet decided to place the ES and FR speaking servers only in EU (even though only 50 of the 550 million spanish speakers worldwide live in Spain). This has meant that it only took us players a couple of months back in 2012 to figure out the problems with population imbalance and that populations were even more imbalanced in the region's night than in the region's day or prime.

 

In fact, the perhaps most interesting development to follow with Alliances is whether Anet decides to address the scoring issues or whether they will let the system do its thing and let players loose across the regions, since the system opens up more mobility and because, for scoring/ladder maintenence, it is likely superior to build cross-regional alliances/guilds.

 

That is what ultimately lead to the tier 2-4 balancing act because tier 1 has always been seen as overpopulated and malbalanced while tier 5 (or w/e) is often seen as underpopulated with one or more dead (off-transfered) or unfavoured (eg., inappropriately unlinked) contenders in the matchup making the matchup boring. In fact, an interesting development in recent years is that T5 and T4 are usually alot more PPT-competetive than T3 and T2 because people are fighting tooth and nail to get out or stay out. T1 and T2 are more prone to avoid promotion and that too can be a reason why a tag doesn't listen to you or care about you - because they do not actually want to win the matchup and go up to a worse balanced and content-starved tier.

 

So people manipulate the ladder for content and they are more or less prone to listen to scout calls for PPT depending on their position on the ladder.

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[ArchonWing.9480]

Well, in the past when pve and wvw were more connected, I think there were things that would be considred a server wide effort.

Also, friends. This is the real reason why Blackgate is the top server.

 

[kash.9213]

I don't join groups or squads but I appreciate when they tag up so I can read the map better and it's easier to see them prep so I'm not standing in their fields when they stealth or whatever. As long as I'm getting data from the maps I'll probably be at xyz before them. I get it if you're actually trying to get into a group composition for your build but I think people have been mistakenly conditioned to construct their main build around a meta instead of survival, when their main build should be able to travel a map, then have a team comp template at the ready. 

 

 

[T G.7496]

It's always somebody else's fault.

That's the first rule of WvW.

[Gwaihir.1745]

On 8/23/2021 at 9:42 PM, ASP.8093 said:

A closed group running with a visible tag is a courtesy to allow the rest of the map to see where they are and what they're up to.

 

I understand that it's annoying if they're lecturing everyone else on what to do or being fussy about numbers, but if they're actually cooperating with everyone else on the strategic level then I see no reason to get mad that they have a limited group comp.

Nope they have no ground to stand on running a closed group and saying they lack numbers.