Fueki.4753 Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said: And that what I meant when I said they were warriors of some kind. What would the gameplay of Jora/Asgeir look like? For all we know, Arenanet could use Jora and give use stance-like utilities based on the Great Spirits of the Wild, while the elite skill would be some kind of onslaught using all four of the Great Spirit. F2-4 could be based on the corrupted spirits of Ox, Wolverine and Eagle. Or they use F2-5 for the Great Spirits and use five of the Lesser Spirits on the utilities. Either way, the four mandible-looking protrusions on the Revenant-looking icon coincide with the number of the Great Spirits of the Wild. Having a Norn Legend might also please some of the Norn players who felt shafted with the lack of Norn content in the Icebrood Saga. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayHawk.7560 Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 3 hours ago, RabbitUp.8294 said: And that what I meant when I said they were warriors of some kind. What would the gameplay of Jora/Asgeir look like? Because with Kalla they gave us the whole warband. The point is there needs to be some gameplay hook. Ventari never fought, but his tablet and his pacifist nature dictated his kit. Shiro is the "Assassin" stance, his stance's attacks are full of blinks and evasions, there's nothing preventing more warrior type stance, probably focusing on things like stab, CC etc. If it's Asgeir though it would probably lean into the spirits of the wild, mechanically not sure how Anet could choose to use that but it's an easy option for a legend selection perspective, as a character he would make sense as well feat wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said: For all we know, Arenanet could use Jora and give use stance-like utilities based on the Great Spirits of the Wild, while the elite skill would be some kind of onslaught using all four of the Great Spirit. F2-4 could be based on the corrupted spirits of Ox, Wolverine and Eagle. Or they use F2-5 for the Great Spirits and use five of the Lesser Spirits on the utilities. Either way, the four mandible-looking protrusions on the Revenant-looking icon coincide with the number of the Great Spirits of the Wild. Having a Norn Legend might also please some of the Norn players who felt shafted with the lack of Norn content in the Icebrood Saga. I mentioned the spirits of the wild already, and that exactly the reason why. Any such approach is ignoring the legend to deliver a "Norn" elite spec. Jora didn't gave any particular mastery over the spirits, in fact quite the opposite she was notable for being unable to shapeshift to Bear when we meet her in gw1, before we killed Svanir. 1 hour ago, GrayHawk.7560 said: Shiro is the "Assassin" stance, his stance's attacks are full of blinks and evasions, there's nothing preventing more warrior type stance, probably focusing on things like stab, CC etc. If it's Asgeir though it would probably lean into the spirits of the wild, mechanically not sure how Anet could choose to use that but it's an easy option for a legend selection perspective, as a character he would make sense as well feat wise. Shiro is a good example of not being a typical assassin. Besides the Jade Wind which is a huge deal, his gw1 boss fight skillset was very expansive and inspired gw2 rev mechanics like Impossible Odds, Battle Scars, sword 3. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 In Asgeir's case, it's noted that it took a jotun-empowered weapon and special blessings from the Spirits of the Wild for him to do as well against Jormag as he did. So having Asgeir as a legend and giving that legend skills based around the Spirits of the Wild would make sense for his story, and would give norn revenants the ability to use such skills again. (It's worth remembering that of all the races, it's the norn for whom their racial skills are the biggest part of their identity.) It's a possibility, especially if the elite specs were originally intended to come with IBS until they decided to do an expansion after all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayHawk.7560 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said: In Asgeir's case, it's noted that it took a jotun-empowered weapon and special blessings from the Spirits of the Wild for him to do as well against Jormag as he did. So having Asgeir as a legend and giving that legend skills based around the Spirits of the Wild would make sense for his story, and would give norn revenants the ability to use such skills again. (It's worth remembering that of all the races, it's the norn for whom their racial skills are the biggest part of their identity.) It's a possibility, especially if the elite specs were originally intended to come with IBS until they decided to do an expansion after all. 100% what I would be thinking. If Anet hadn't said they were going to try tie the elites to Cantha Asgeir would have been the first legend I would think of, I mean we don't have a Norn yet and as far as legends go, the dude (with the help of the Spirits of the wild and Jotun scroll) defeated a Legendary dragon champion, stood toe to toe with an elder dragon, was the first person to injure one, single handedly saved his people, established their new capital and had to sacrifice his personal beliefs to do so. His story is pretty kitten epic. I doubt Jora, firstly she was a hero in GW1 second she was nowhere near as impressive as Asgeir. The only reason they would go Jora over Asgeur would be the female representation. There's also a chance the Rev elite won't be Canthan themed since we already channel Shiro who is essentially and arguably the most influential Canthan legend as it is. Aesgir with a Spirits of the Wild mechanic could be interesting icon wise, everyone has been assuming the eye or mask are Rev but imagine that's a red herring and the animal face icon is the Rev icon.... Edited September 9, 2021 by GrayHawk.7560 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 35 minutes ago, GrayHawk.7560 said: 100% what I would be thinking. If Anet hadn't said they were going to try tie the elites to Cantha Asgeir would have been the first legend I would think of, I mean we don't have a Norn yet and as far as legends go, the dude (with the help of the Spirits of the wild and Jotun scroll) defeated a Legendary dragon champion, stood toe to toe with an elder dragon, was the first person to injure one, single handedly saved his people, established their new capital and had to sacrifice his personal beliefs to do so. His story is pretty kitten epic. I doubt Jora, firstly she was a hero in GW1 second she was nowhere near as impressive as Asgeir. The only reason they would go Jora over Asgeur would be the female representation. There's also a chance the Rev elite won't be Canthan themed since we already channel Shiro who is essentially and arguably the most influential Canthan legend as it is. Yeah, I'd been thinking myself that just because they're tying the elites to Cantha generally doesn't mean that the revenant will be. It was the odd one out in PoF too. Jora I tend to stick under the "if you can reasonably ask if they're just getting credit for something the GW1PC did, should they really be a legend?" umbrella. Jora's primary accomplishment was killing Svanir - Svanir is the one that really had an impact on the norn and if either were to be a legend, it should be Svanir (particularly since he actually has an interesting theme to build off, while we don't really have anything Jora can offer that I can think of beyond "warrior themed", and I personally think it's a bit of a waste for any revenant legend to just be themed around what another profession can already do). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayHawk.7560 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 minute ago, draxynnic.3719 said: Yeah, I'd been thinking myself that just because they're tying the elites to Cantha generally doesn't mean that the revenant will be. It was the odd one out in PoF too. Jora I tend to stick under the "if you can reasonably ask if they're just getting credit for something the GW1PC did, should they really be a legend?" umbrella. Jora's primary accomplishment was killing Svanir - Svanir is the one that really had an impact on the norn and if either were to be a legend, it should be Svanir (particularly since he actually has an interesting theme to build off, while we don't really have anything Jora can offer that I can think of beyond "warrior themed", and I personally think it's a bit of a waste for any revenant legend to just be themed around what another profession can already do). I agree totally. Svanir is also pretty unlikely as, given GW2 's over arching story and all, I can't really picture the commander electing to channel a corrupted dragon champion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 Just now, GrayHawk.7560 said: I agree totally. Svanir is also pretty unlikely as, given GW2 's over arching story and all, I can't really picture the commander electing to channel a corrupted dragon champion. Yeah, it might be a case where, similar to channelling Joko, channelling Svanir is technically possible but is just something that makes the PC shudder too much to make a habit of it. That said, though, revenant is supposed to be unafraid of channelling villains, but thus far every elite specialisation legend has been on the virtuous side. In Joko's case, it was personal, but with Jormag dead, Svanir might be viewed as just another power source. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayHawk.7560 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said: Yeah, it might be a case where, similar to channelling Joko, channelling Svanir is technically possible but is just something that makes the PC shudder too much to make a habit of it. That said, though, revenant is supposed to be unafraid of channelling villains, but thus far every elite specialisation legend has been on the virtuous side. In Joko's case, it was personal, but with Jormag dead, Svanir might be viewed as just another power source. True, still I think it may be a bridge too far conceptually. In every way possible Asgeir would make more sense than Svanir if they wanted to go the Norn route. I guess we'll find out soon enough in a few days but the speculation is fun nonetheless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 Except that IBS deconstructed Asgeir's legend. In the end, he chipped a tooth, ran away, and lied to his people. The commanded has been involved in the killing of 5 elder dragons, why do we need to channel the tooth chipper? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayHawk.7560 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said: Except that IBS deconstructed Asgeir's legend. In the end, he chipped a tooth, ran away, and lied to his people. The commanded has been involved in the killing of 5 elder dragons, why do we need to channel the tooth chipper? I mean, no one else managed to chip a tooth before that? By that logic with the commander having been involved in killing 5 elder dragons there really isn't anyone stronger than us from the past so why bother channeling anyone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loules.8601 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 17 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said: Except that IBS deconstructed Asgeir's legend. In the end, he chipped a tooth, ran away, and lied to his people. The commanded has been involved in the killing of 5 elder dragons, why do we need to channel the tooth chipper? His main achievement is not in fighting a dragon or damaging its fang, but in saving the Norn race. He became a kind of "Moses" who was able to unite with powerful spirits and organize the exodus of an entire race. And while all the civilians were leaving, the Norn warriors, along with Asgeir, covered their departure. This is the achievement of Asgeir. And Svanir... quite a small fry, in fact. The sect was named after him, yep, but he was clearly weaker than Asgeir, and he did not influence history very much either. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 54 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said: Except that IBS deconstructed Asgeir's legend. In the end, he chipped a tooth, ran away, and lied to his people. The commanded has been involved in the killing of 5 elder dragons, why do we need to channel the tooth chipper? Next revenant elite spec: deceiver Coming with the legendary liar stance! 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 34 minutes ago, GrayHawk.7560 said: I mean, no one else managed to chip a tooth before that? By that logic with the commander having been involved in killing 5 elder dragons there really isn't anyone stronger than us from the past so why bother channeling anyone? That's why they need to avoid legends directly involved with the elder dragons because they make these comparisons easy. 27 minutes ago, Loules.8601 said: His main achievement is not in fighting a dragon or damaging its fang, but in saving the Norn race. He became a kind of "Moses" who was able to unite with powerful spirits and organize the exodus of an entire race. And while all the civilians were leaving, the Norn warriors, along with Asgeir, covered their departure. This is the achievement of Asgeir. And Svanir... quite a small fry, in fact. The sect was named after him, yep, but he was clearly weaker than Asgeir, and he did not influence history very much either. The whole exodus was the result of Jormag's burgain. For all we know, if they norn united they could have dealt with Jormag right then and there. It was Jormag that convinced Asgeir to flee south. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raolin Soulherder.3195 Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) If they go with a Cantha-themed legend, I am thinking they might go with one of the 4 Envoys, spirits from gw1 (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Envoy). They played an important role in the Factions main story, having the job of shepherding souls in the mists (which seems like a good fit for revenant), and bring the rogue envoy, Shiro to justice. They feature in cutscenes and concept art showed them with the below weapons: Herald Demrikov- sword https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Herald_Demrikov Emissary Heleyne- staff https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Emissary_Heleyne Messenger Vetaura- scythe https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Messenger_Vetaura Courier Torivos- axes https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Courier_Torivos The e-spec could have a utility skill associated with each envoy, kind of like the Herald spec has different facets. The blue flame in the revenant silhouette makes me think spirits of some sort. Which also might fit with one of the hero-spirits that you liberate from the Shiro’ken in the Tahnnakai Temple mission, such as Vizu (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vizu), though she technically wields daggers instead of a sword. Jaizhanju (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jaizhanju) is said to have wielded a sword in the lore text, though she is a much more minor character than Vizu and only appears in that one mission. I used to think Talon Silverwing would be a good legend, giving players the option of sort of playing a tengu w/o making a new playable race. He also wields a sword. But someone brought up a good point that none of the current rev legends are mundane fighters. The utility skills all revolve around special magic (Jalis’ Rite of the Great Dwarf, Shiro’s jade wind, Ventauri’s tablet, etc). And even though Talon was a skilled hero, I don’t remember any magic. Edited September 14, 2021 by Raolin Soulherder.3195 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses.2058 Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 33 minutes ago, Raolin Soulherder.3195 said: If they go with a Cantha-themed legend, I am thinking they might go with one of the 4 Envoys, spirits from gw1 (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Envoy). They played an important role in the Factions main story, having the job of shepherding souls in the mists (which seems like a good fit for revenant), and bring the rogue envoy, Shiro to justice. They feature in cutscenes and concept art showed them with the below weapons: Herald Demrikov- sword https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Herald_Demrikov Emissary Heleyne- staff https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Emissary_Heleyne Messenger Vetaura- scythe https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Messenger_Vetaura Courier Torivos- axes https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Courier_Torivos The e-spec could have a utility skill associated with each envoy, kind of like the Herald spec has different facets. The blue flame in the revenant silhouette makes me think spirits of some sort. Which also might fit with one of the hero-spirits that you liberate from the Shiro’ken in the Tahnnakai Temple mission, such as Vizu (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vizu), though she technically wields daggers instead of a sword. Jaizhanju (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jaizhanju) is said to have wielded a sword in the lore text, though she is a much more minor character than Vizu and only appears in that one mission. I used to think Talon Silverwing would be a good legend, giving players the option of sort of playing a tengu w/o making a new playable race. He also wields a sword. But someone brought up a good point that none of the current rev legends are mundane fighters. The utility skills all revolve around special magic (Jalis’ Rite of the Great Dwarf, Shiro’s jade wind, Ventauri’s tablet, etc). And even though Talon was a skilled hero, I don’t remember any magic. Kalla would fit into the "mundane fighter" without any "special" power category. That's one of the reasons many people consider her to be a questionable choice for a legend, myself included. I wouldn't mind a tengu legend mind you, but comparing Talon (or his descendant) to Shiro is... Don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayHawk.7560 Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Raolin Soulherder.3195 said: If they go with a Cantha-themed legend, I am thinking they might go with one of the 4 Envoys, spirits from gw1 (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Envoy). They played an important role in the Factions main story, having the job of shepherding souls in the mists (which seems like a good fit for revenant), and bring the rogue envoy, Shiro to justice. They feature in cutscenes and concept art showed them with the below weapons: Herald Demrikov- sword https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Herald_Demrikov Emissary Heleyne- staff https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Emissary_Heleyne Messenger Vetaura- scythe https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Messenger_Vetaura Courier Torivos- axes https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Courier_Torivos The e-spec could have a utility skill associated with each envoy, kind of like the Herald spec has different facets. The blue flame in the revenant silhouette makes me think spirits of some sort. Which also might fit with one of the hero-spirits that you liberate from the Shiro’ken in the Tahnnakai Temple mission, such as Vizu (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vizu), though she technically wields daggers instead of a sword. Jaizhanju (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jaizhanju) is said to have wielded a sword in the lore text, though she is a much more minor character than Vizu and only appears in that one mission. I used to think Talon Silverwing would be a good legend, giving players the option of sort of playing a tengu w/o making a new playable race. He also wields a sword. But someone brought up a good point that none of the current rev legends are mundane fighters. The utility skills all revolve around special magic (Jalis’ Rite of the Great Dwarf, Shiro’s jade wind, Ventauri’s tablet, etc). And even though Talon was a skilled hero, I don’t remember any magic. I actually quite like this concept. Demikrov's artwork also actually fits the silhouette quite well. Maybe it would be the oracle and all the envoys with a similar concept to the one you outlined. Oracle could also give those wanting a ritualist spec a ritualist. They certainly have a tie to the mists and quite an important role in the Factions MSQ. They may be a bit lite on lore but that can always be written. May be a little similar to Kala and her warband though and I doubt they would choose any of the individual Envoys. Nice theory! Hopefully we have a chance of finding out a bit more tonight if this week plays out like the last beta did. Edited September 14, 2021 by GrayHawk.7560 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Ulysses.2058 said: Kalla would fit into the "mundane fighter" without any "special" power category. That's one of the reasons many people consider her to be a questionable choice for a legend, myself included. I wouldn't mind a tengu legend mind you, but comparing Talon (or his descendant) to Shiro is... Don't know. They still managed to make her legend's powers represent the higher cause she fought for and the impact she had on history, though, rather than simply copying what she did in life. Which is the issue with Talon - Talon didn't really do much rather than being a Warrior who was known to Togo and then to the GW1PC. A Tengu-themed legend could work, but I think it would have to be the Tengu who led the exodus and founded the Dominion of Winds (who I think was a descendent of Talon) rather than Talon himself. You could then have powers related to the spirit of the tengu and culture of the Dominion of Winds, similar to how Kalla, Jalis and Ventari represent post-shamans charr, dwarfs, and sylvari respectively. I would note that one of the other Envoys could be an interesting choice. They're all supposed to have done things that are at least nearly as bad as Shiro, after all, we just don't know what they happen to be. So it is at least theoretically possible that they might make Demrikov a legend, particularly if they give him a backstory that ties into the End of Dragons plot somehow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raolin Soulherder.3195 Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 32 minutes ago, Ulysses.2058 said: Kalla would fit into the "mundane fighter" without any "special" power category. That's one of the reasons many people consider her to be a questionable choice for a legend, myself included. I wouldn't mind a tengu legend mind you, but comparing Talon (or his descendant) to Shiro is... Don't know. yea, I guess Kalla does feel out of place and boring. No magic. And nothing evoking the concepts of death/immortality and the mists, except garden-variety warfare. Every other legend checks those other boxes. Jade-wind at Shiro’s death, tablet at Ventari’s death, Rite of the Great Dwarf which doomed dwarves to extinction, the ghostly facets of Glint, & the undead demon. I fear that Tengu would be too Kalla-esque in that regard, unless the writers put in some work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses.2058 Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said: They still managed to make her legend's powers represent the higher cause she fought for and the impact she had on history, though, rather than simply copying what she did in life. Which is the issue with Talon - Talon didn't really do much rather than being a Warrior who was known to Togo and then to the GW1PC. A Tengu-themed legend could work, but I think it would have to be the Tengu who led the exodus and founded the Dominion of Winds (who I think was a descendent of Talon) rather than Talon himself. You could then have powers related to the spirit of the tengu and culture of the Dominion of Winds, similar to how Kalla, Jalis and Ventari represent post-shamans charr, dwarfs, and sylvari respectively. I would note that one of the other Envoys could be an interesting choice. They're all supposed to have done things that are at least nearly as bad as Shiro, after all, we just don't know what they happen to be. So it is at least theoretically possible that they might make Demrikov a legend, particularly if they give him a backstory that ties into the End of Dragons plot somehow. True, Kalla's legend treatment was quite similar to Jalis'. Still, Jalis' actions were arguably much more impactful to his race than Kalla's (or Talon descendant's) , and that could explain why he doesn't stand out as a legend as much as she does. As I said, I wouldn't mind channeling the spirit of the tengu through Talon, but the rev in me still craves channeling another truly powerful legend such as Kanaxai, Balthazar, Menzies and such. Edited September 14, 2021 by Ulysses.2058 Grammar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayHawk.7560 Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) Actual spec has just been released, uses Archemorus and Viktor channel both in their alliance! Looks like you can stance dance between the two, Archemorus being offensive and Viktor defensive. Plus Dragoon dives!! Edited September 14, 2021 by GrayHawk.7560 Excitement 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 It looks like it's going to be a 08/15 power dps melee Greatsword. I'm not even remotely surprised that it's not something interesting. And that they chose Viktor and Archemorus, yet don't have Vizu in there is disappointing (to say the least). If they use a small part of Shiro's legend, they should at least use all of that small part, not merely two thirds. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loules.8601 Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 11 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said: And that they chose Viktor and Archemorus, yet don't have Vizu in there is disappointing (to say the least). Maybe Vizu - character in EoD or Elite-skill? 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronoPinoyX.7923 Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 Welp, my prophecy has been fulfilled... I knew those colours had to mean something and here we are 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loules.8601 Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 On 9/7/2021 at 6:04 AM, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said: A thought just occurred to me actually. Considering ANet has been saying they're breaking the usual rules with their E-Spec, there's a possibility this E-Spec doesn't have one but TWO Legends, however the catch is that they're the only Legends you can use and you can't equip others. Legendary Luxon ArchemorusLegendary Kurzick Saint Viktor Those are essentially your Legends but since you get two, the others get locked out in the process. Just a thought since I realised they use dark red and blue to potentially represent the Luxon and Kurzick alliances in the silhouette. If this is the case, then each Legend could have a focus, one Power (Archemorus), the other Support (Viktor) and the elite skills for each legend corresponds with the effects of their relic item's effects from GW1 without the need for charging it. Spear of ArchemorusUrn of Saint Viktor South-park level? Not bad, not bad 😄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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