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No more chore-I mean "hearts" please!


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10 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

The middle ground for me is simple. If you're going to put hearts back in, and I still hope they don't, and if they're going to be repeatable, allow me to access the merchant without repeating them.  I'd be okay with that.  Not thrilled mind you, but okay.

That and new rewards like materials, either random or selectable random.

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1 minute ago, Jilora.9524 said:

When it comes down to it if EoD has hearts we will all do them repeatable or not you/I will do them if something we want is locked behind them whether map complete or currency or novelty's. You all talking like I won't play a mmo if they have quests

This comment makes no sense. I don't like raids and didn't want them in the game. I never said I'd leave the game if they introduced raids. However, I don't raid.  I'll avoid hearts whenever I can and I'll focus on zones that don't have hearts, because heart are the worst content in the game for me. Asking Anet to not put what I consider the worst content in the game into the game is fair game.

 

That said, hearts are NOT the quests in this game. Dynamic events are and were always  meant to be as per Anet. And no one is asking for ANet to take dynamic events, the actual quests out of the game.

 

The very fact that you think hearts are the quests in this game, shows how bad hearts are for the game.

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1 minute ago, Vayne.8563 said:

This comment makes no sense. I don't like raids and didn't want them in the game. I never said I'd leave the game if they introduced raids. However, I don't raid.  I'll avoid hearts whenever I can and I'll focus on zones that don't have hearts, because heart are the worst content in the game for me. Asking Anet to not put what I consider the worst content in the game into the game is fair game.

 

That said, hearts are NOT the quests in this game. Dynamic events are and were always  meant to be as per Anet. And no one is asking for ANet to take dynamic events, the actual quests out of the game.

 

The very fact that you think hearts are the quests in this game, shows how bad hearts are for the game.

Not raids but you sure did about strike missions. And with EoD comes more plus CM's but you still here. And if you can't understand a heart is quests in disguise then I can't help you. 90 percent are kill mobs fetch this do that. Dynamic events are not quest either that's like saying fates in ff14 or domains in eso are quests yet they have a whole quest system. Just because a heart doesn't specifically say kill 15 mobs but if you kill 15 mobs it completes the heart you just did a quest.

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13 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Not raids but you sure did about strike missions. And with EoD comes more plus CM's but you still here. And if you can't understand a heart is quests in disguise then I can't help you. 90 percent are kill mobs fetch this do that. Dynamic events are not quest either that's like saying fates in ff14 or domains in eso are quests yet they have a whole quest system. Just because a heart doesn't specifically say kill 15 mobs but if you kill 15 mobs it completes the heart you just did a quest.

I said if Anet made zone metas required strike missions to complete, then I would leave the game. I absolutely said that, and look, didn't happen. Anet saw that people were angry at this and took that requirement out. I got my way, so why would I leave over strike missions?

 

Also you may have missed the ign article I linked. There were plenty more articles at the time, but since you missed it I'll link it here.

 

https://www.ign.com/wikis/guild-wars-2/Dynamic_Events

 

To paraphrase, Anet called hearts tasks and said straight out that dynamic events were the quests in this game.  Don't argue with me, argue with Anet. 


Anet included 1500 events in this game to replace quests. They added hearts to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawned as per Anet. You can say whatever you like about hearts being the quests in this game...but Anet said otherwise.


And of course, you misquoted what I said about strike missions, so I'm wondering how reliable your memory is for stuff that happened a far longer time ago. These statements I'm attributing to Anet were said by Anet. 

Edited by Vayne.8563
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I like them when I dont have to do a lot of them. I also think they're helpful for aimless people like myself sometimes. 

 

They're also pretty quick, which I like. In fact, I like sometimes that it gives me a reason to actually fight since most of the story in the game is like, story. I get exhausted, personally, when I have to go and like burn bushes - literally, not figuratively.

 

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3 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I said if Anet made zone metas required strike missions to complete, then I would leave the game. I absolutely said that, and look, didn't happen. Anet saw that people were angry at this and took that requirement out. I got my way, so why would I leave over strike missions?

 

Also you may have missed the ign article I linked. There were plenty more articles at the time, but since you missed it I'll link it here.

 

https://www.ign.com/wikis/guild-wars-2/Dynamic_Events

 

To paraphrase, Anet called hearts tasks and said straight out that dynamic events were the quests in this game.  Don't argue with me, argue with Anet. 


Anet included 1500 events in this game to replace quests. They added hearts to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawned as per Anet. You can say whatever you like about hearts being the quests in this game...but Anet said otherwise.


And of course, you misquoted what I said about strike missions, so I'm wondering how reliable your memory is for stuff that happened a far longer time ago. These statements I'm attributing to Anet were said by Anet. 

That says dynamic events replace quests not that they are quests. It's was a way to make the world more alive while still having hearts which have the same requirements as every quest I have ever done so yeah hearts are closer to quests then dynamic events. And pretty sure you still have to do at least some strike achieves to complete Bjora meta so they didn't take it out they just didn't keep making 3 strikes per map so never had that overlap. You going to try and win an argument I wasn't having any way you can so I'm good. Like you even took my exaggeration of yall all act like you won't do quests in an mmo when if hearts are there you will do them at least once whether you like them or not was all I meant.

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8 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

Then. Don’t. Do. Hearts. 

I'd love to never have to do another heart again, especially after having to do all the hearts for Draconis Mons for 17 days straight because of Aurora.

3 hours ago, Devildoc.6721 said:

Hearts were not the intended game, they were an afterthought to cater to WoW players

So they were created for the folks who need hand-holding? Go figure.

3 hours ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Too bad you can not see the forum when HoT released and people complained about there not being any hearts to guide them through the maps.

Hell repeatable Hearts were praised when Ember Bay was released.

So my question for you is what is making you do the hearts? The new meta? Sorry gathering 30 wood ore and plants seem more of a chore than killing mobs in the general area to progress a bar.

I cannot stand Heart Quests. Having them be repeatable is the devs just mocking those who hate heart quests. Especially when if we return to the area, if we need an item from the NPC, we have to do the kitten heart again just to unlock his shop. The 30 Wood/Ore/Plants are a bit annoying, but at least I can just do those passively while moving AND they're mats so they still serve other purposes.

I'd rather run Chalice of Tears and other Jumping puzzles than do Heart Quests ever again.

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1 hour ago, Jilora.9524 said:

That says dynamic events replace quests not that they are quests.

That's just semantics though. They are quests that you get offered when you get close to them. They have an objective and a reward, just like quests in other games. It's just how they are delivered or presented to you that's different. I mean what's the difference between an escort quest and an escort event other than the way it's presented to you?

 

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4 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

That's just semantics though. They are quests that you get offered when you get close to them. They have an objective and a reward, just like quests in other games. It's just how they are delivered or presented to you that's different. I mean what's the difference between an escort quest and an escort event other than the way it's presented to you?

 

Not really the semantics was when he said hearts are tasks not quests like tasks and quests are different. Sure some dynamic events are similar to quests in some games but the things you do to complete hearts are more quest like. The events happen whether you are there or not and aren't always there or change due to conditions met which I would argue was a whole new idea that separates gw2 from other mmo's. You could run dozens of map completes and still not experience every version of every event which is why I don't consider them quests but events. I think hearts are quests and if you say you think dynamic events are quests that's fine but don't pull 1 sentence of mine from the 6 reply back and forth to argue semantics. 

Like my friend at work likes to make fun I play and do quests but then he started playing some destiny space game and would tell me about missions. I asked for an example of a mission. He's like well I had to go kill 20 of this mob and go scavenge some wood and ore to make a weapon. I'm like dude you are doing quests but to this day he will say no it's a mission.

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2 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

GW2 has found a nice middle ground that departs from the usual run across the world to get a cup of tea to run back to have them ask for some cream, to run back with that, to have the quest giver complain it's cold.  Unless it's for something specific, I don't repeat them on a daily basis.

OMg, yes! I figured I would try out FF14 the other day, and I got fed up with all the mundane tasks and running around within the hour. Even without reading the Quest text (I tried for the first couple) I was *still* in the city after that and had not encountered a single monster yet. I guess that was the Tutorial, but all the bad memories from  WoW just crept up on me.  I think GW2 has very organic leveling and exploring! 🙂

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17 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Not really the semantics was when he said hearts are tasks not quests like tasks and quests are different.

Same issue, they are quests marked on the map and they mostly consist of kill x mobs or fetch x items. The thing that's different about tasks and quests is that you can pick and choose and mix it up a bit more. And you don't need a quest log for them.

 

But in the end whether it's tasks or events. Even with their differences they are not different enough that what's required of you is the exact same thing: kill x mobs, fetch x items and escort x person.

 

Again the difference is in the delivery of the required "work" and whether or not the events still go on when you're not there really is of no consequence to me...since I'm not there. It's like a dead person not experiencing life or a person in one country not being around to experience events in another country. I really don't see how that's relevant.

 

Events and tasks are present in other MMOs, just in different formats. And you end up doing the same stuff because of them. However, the delivery in GW is very dynamic and that makes it feel fresh and less constrained.

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While y'all are talking about HoT not having Hearts, they did have Adventures, and those were way worse than any Heart.  Thankfully not required for map completion (perhaps worse, needed for Mastery completion) but, saying HoT was better for not having Hearts ignores some of the biggest pain points for that release.

And that so many of you are disagreeing about the names used to define an Event, Quest, Chore, whatever.  It's in game content, you can do it, or not, and that is okay.  The scripted content, Metas and Hearts and other events, are all time wasting puzzles designed by the developers to entertain us the players.  While this post is complaining about Hearts, there are others with similar disdain for Metas, WvW, PvP, Strikes, Raids etc etc cause there are collections locked behind that content that players don't enjoy.

 

If you want to do a collection, then you need to jump through the hoops the developers put in place.  If you don't like it, then you don't have to do it.

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9 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

While y'all are talking about HoT not having Hearts, they did have Adventures, and those were way worse than any Heart.  Thankfully not required for map completion (perhaps worse, needed for Mastery completion) but, saying HoT was better for not having Hearts ignores some of the biggest pain points for that release.

And that so many of you are disagreeing about the names used to define an Event, Quest, Chore, whatever.  It's in game content, you can do it, or not, and that is okay.  The scripted content, Metas and Hearts and other events, are all time wasting puzzles designed by the developers to entertain us the players.  While this post is complaining about Hearts, there are others with similar disdain for Metas, WvW, PvP, Strikes, Raids etc etc cause there are collections locked behind that content that players don't enjoy.

 

If you want to do a collection, then you need to jump through the hoops the developers put in place.  If you don't like it, then you don't have to do it.

Well adventures are not like hearts as you yourself explain. They are indeed a lot harder to do especially at gold level, but yeah, this thread is about the hearts and is a legitimate topic, just like the others you mentioned. I don't think it's needed to discuss every content type that exists in game in one thread. Everything in an MMO is a waste of time in the end, but we seem to enjoy wasting time under certain circumstances. Call it human nature, just like complaining 😉

Edited by Gehenna.3625
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11 hours ago, Devildoc.6721 said:

That's like saying "don't play the game"

since they're required for map completion, required for meta achievements etc.

most hearts do take a few minutes. there are only a few that are really bad. 
and most of them tell a story. you have to look, listen and read. stop watching netflix when playing the game.

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11 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I dislike hearts immensely. I think they're absolutely the worst content in the game. I understand why they were introduced, but the fact is they weren't actually meant to be in the game and the first two betas didn't have them. They were only added in the third beta because apparently people from other games couldn't function without marks on their map telling them where to go.

 

I can assure you that the hearts were in place long before the betas. To suggest they added the several hundred hearts to the game only after the third beta just before release is just ridiculous.

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5 hours ago, PookieDaWombat.6209 said:

 

Core game hearts are "required" if you want to get a legendary (which I already addressed in my original post) and I will again argue that the grind of getting your crafting up and all the materials for the legendary is WAY worse than the "horror" of doing the core game hearts, no matter how tedious some of them might be.

 

Once you've gotten the meta achievements on another map that might require that heart, you don't ever have to do it again after that first time if you don't want to, and if you don't care about it in the first place you can also avoid it all together.  I personally HATE doing bounties on PoF maps, but I accept I have to do certain ones if I want certain collections.  I still dislike most of the adventures in HoT, but accept I need to do them a few times to get other things I might want.  

 

As for the whole what was and wasn't part of the design in the game:  hearts have been in the live game since day 1.  (Please note I said LIVE game, not Beta, I've been here since the literal beginning).  In the "original design of the game" we had personality traits that were supposed to mean something and a whole slew of other things that were quietly shelved as ideas too.  In short, things change, but hearts were there from the start of the main game.  Technically speaking we had waypoints since the start of the game and mounts technically "go against the spirit of the game as well", but we have them now and the world has not burned to the ground.  Its all good.  Unless you have a reason to complete all the hearts, there is no reason to do them.  I have about 30 toons across 3 accounts, I've only map completed in tyria twice and might do it two more times and only because i have two legendaries to work on.

Right now each "return to" meta achievement is requiring doing the repeatable hearts.

things I did years ago and have no interest in doing again, I'm being compelled to do them even though they're boring and tedious as crap, because otherwise I'll just end up having 1 achievement short.

That's the kind of thing I don't want anymore.

let people who don't want to do hearts anymore not do them without sacrificing out larger things in the game.

 

or at the very least

SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the number of chores you have to do for each one.

Lake Doric and this one were awful because their completion % per action were just so tiny.

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5 hours ago, Tyncale.1629 said:

I like the Hearts better then the system they have in WoW and FF14. Hearts are tied to a very local area and usually you already start to fill that Heart when you are just exploring/fighting in the area anyway. 

 

I like Dynamic Events even more, I love running into them, however these are not always around, and waiting for one to start is not that much fun.   I think Anet has found a nice middle road here.  

 

I agree that the repeatable Hearts are busywork, but I guess we can forgive Anet to create "content" like that.  If it is for some collection it is not so bad: you can  get re-acquainted with the area and some Lore  which can be fun.    However I do dislike the grinds where you have to do the Hearts every day to get a once-a-day item from the Heart vendor, like the Funerary Incenses.   But even then Anet has given players more options to obtain the same materials.  Tbh, they are pretty good at this. 

 

An important side-effect of this is, that you will always see some players in a map, no matter how old the map is. Core maps in GW2 still have players and sometimes lots of them. You can forget that in WoW and Everquest.  Total abandonment. 

Hearts don't keep players in maps, meta events and world bosses do.

 

people never go to maps just to do hearts.

you don't see tons of people flocking to snowden drifts, snowden drifts does have hearts, but it has no meta events or bosses, so it's dead.  Hearts are completely solo content, so it doesn't even matter if other people are on the map and in fact, the less people that are in the area, the easier time you'll have completing your chores since unlike the entire rest of the game, heart objectives are not shared between players.

 

This is a dumb myth that hearts somehow get people flocking to maps.

the most constantly high population maps are ones that have no hearts but have metas and world bosses that people like to run.

Dragon's Stand, provided you pop in the right map where everyone is, that one's constantly being run

Dragonfall, when I make new characters and instant boost them to 80 to farm some keys, I do this map for map completion trying to get a key out of it (precisely because it has no hearts, I don't bother with any of the maps that require hearts), I always see a good amount of people making progress on the meta.

Silverwastes, there are constantly RIBA maps going on in LFG  

I always find good populations in Bloodstone Fen and Grothmar Valley too.  I was on break when the return events for Bloodstone Fen and Ember Bay.  Guess which one I had trouble finding people for doing the boss events I couldn't solo when I came back and people were no longer doing the return to event for them?

Yup, the one that has repeatable hearts.

If your theory was correct that repeatable hearts keep people coming back to a zone, then why on earth were there dozens of people doing the Anomaly at the bottom of Bloodstone Fen but like, only 3-4 people on Ember Bay?

Ember Bay is the one with the precious population retaining hearts afterall.

People should be coming back and doing those hearts every day, because they're repeatable

and they're "content" right?

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4 hours ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Not raids but you sure did about strike missions. And with EoD comes more plus CM's but you still here. And if you can't understand a heart is quests in disguise then I can't help you. 90 percent are kill mobs fetch this do that. Dynamic events are not quest either that's like saying fates in ff14 or domains in eso are quests yet they have a whole quest system. Just because a heart doesn't specifically say kill 15 mobs but if you kill 15 mobs it completes the heart you just did a quest.

Events are quests

Hearts are chores

Different

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10 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

You literally have to. Want goodies from any of the repeatable heart vendors? Guess what you have to do.

 

I dont have any issue with hearts, love em, they add flavor. Repeatable hearts that lock the vendor, annoy the kitten out of me, those should not be a thing.

 

You can cheese that one 🙂

Yeah. The repeatable ones are the worst. At least with older maps you could do the heart and never have to do it again. But now...ugh. 

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1 hour ago, vicky.9751 said:

You don't have to do them....

Only time i've ever put work into hearts was for the skyscale map currencies.

You do though if you want to do map completion, after that first time its usually achievements. I wouldnt mind them if the vendor remained unlocked, but no..you have to do them over again to get the vendor, so ew.

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2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well adventures are not like hearts as you yourself explain. They are indeed a lot harder to do especially at gold level, but yeah, this thread is about the hearts and is a legitimate topic, just like the others you mentioned. I don't think it's needed to discuss every content type that exists in game in one thread. Everything in an MMO is a waste of time in the end, but we seem to enjoy wasting time under certain circumstances. Call it human nature, just like complaining 😉

Adventures are not my favorite thing to do on maps, but I don't have to do them for map completion, and until this last return to event, I hadn't had to do them for meta achievement completion either.

if you make the "return to" metas not require doing the hearts again, that'd at least be something.

I actually kind of had fun doing the rest of the achievements for istan

just not the hearts.

I mean I guess the harvesting?  But I need to harvest for mats every once in awhile anyway, and getting ALL the mats needed for those achievements ends up being less tedious than completing a single heart, because you get 3% completion per tap on a node, vs 1-2% completion for each objective done for a heart.

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