End of Dragons Hook

[Chaotic.9760]

I'm really sorry if this topic is old news, but I haven't been on these forums in years and after some pretty deep searching I came up with little on this subject specifically.

 

What exactly is the 'hook' for End of Dragons?

 

Heart of Thorns introduced a number of new things including, but not limited to the mastery system, gliding, elite specializations, and the Revenant class. Many of these things were defining changes that impacted the base game moving forward. My mind is a bit fuzzy, but did raids originate from HoT? Maybe even guild halls?

 

Path of Fire introduced mounts as it's biggest feature in addition to more elite specializations and other copy/paste ideas from the past (more fractals, more raids, more guild halls, etc). Mounts were a defining change to GW2 as a whole, I would say.

 

Which brings us to End of Dragons. Besides the usual suspects of specializations, raids, fractals, mounts, etc, what is our game defining feature(s)? Please don't tell me fishing is that feature. I'm not seeing a single thing that sets End of Dragons apart from previous expansions and changes up the game.

[Gehenna.3625]

fishing and mounts for 2 or more people but I'd say they haven't revealed everything yet.

[AgentMoore.9453]

Multi-person mounts, fishing, and instanced content with scaling difficulty modes seemed to be the big things they were showcasing, but you could argue those are all just things from previous releases (save fishing, though that might also be something from a previous release depending on how it functions).

 

So, going by the 'not seen in GW2 before' standard, there really is no hook yet. It's true that not everything has been revealed, but among the stuff that has been, I'm mostly seeing adjustments on things we already have. For some folks, that's enough and they'll buy EoD and be happy. Others are still waiting for the defining feature you describe.

[Chaotic.9760]

Do we expect Anet to hold bigger reveals for later? I would assume the heavy hitters (the entirely new to GW features) would be announced first and later on they would showcase the minor stuff like specializations and new mounts.

[Jilora.9524]

If there is one it will be one of the 2 remaining masteries because I am not hooked yet. I mean I know I'll buy it in Feb but I'm not like extra excited at all yet.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Jilora.9524

[Danikat.8537]

Considering the initial reveal of EoD was preceeded by an announcement that the expansion would be delayed until next year the order they're revealing things in might be partially dictated by the order things are ready to show. I don't know how well recieved it would be if the reveal for a big feature was a Powerpoint presentation using concept art or rough models because that's all they've got so far.

 

Of course I don't know what they've got planned, but there's 2 more masteries which haven't been announced so it's possible one or both of them will be appealing to you.

 

For me though the main selling point of an expansion is getting new maps and new story, and multi-person mounts are interesting too. I don't see the appeal of fishing but I know a lot of people have been asking for it over the years so I can imagine Anet saw that as a big deal too. And of course for some people the most important part of any expansion is new elite specs. So I suppose 'the hook' depends as much on your personal interests as what Anet chooses to announce first.

[Tyncale.1629]

For me the only hook left is exploring new Maps, a new culture and hopefully some good meta's. New Elites really do not exite me, if some new meta-build arises that just ticks all the boxes for my playstyle, I will just change to that.

 

The little I have seen of Fishing does not give me the feeling that Anet nailed this age-old MMO feature but they could still surprise me. Even if they manage to make it very involved and fun I do not really see it as a game-changing feature.

 

 The Skiffs are just another Mount, a boat glued on a skimmer, and I do not see the "chilling" on a Skiff to be very extra-ordinary. I mean, people chill in places in Tyria all the time, usually when there is stuff to do, now we can also do it on a Skiff.  Not a real hook.

 

Turtle mount is a gimmick made for specific encounters undoubtedly in PvE; for WvW this could be a cool addition. Always more fun to roam with two then one, at least to me. And shoot at some Gates. 🙂

Edited August 25, 2021 by Tyncale.1629

[Dawdler.8521]

Well what was the hook for HoT? Nobody cared about gliding and everybody knew the elites would be hell for balancing.

 

And what was the hook for PoF? Nobody wanted mounts either and even more elites... yeah... that turned out well for balance.

[Gehenna.3625]

I feel like there is a joke in asking if there's a hook and the answer is fishing.

[Tyncale.1629]

Mount was definately a hook for me with PoF. I really disliked all the running in GW2 from the very start. The game was good enough to accept that for the first years, but lots of people(me included) sort of 100% expected that Mounts would come some day.  And then they implemented the best Mount system in my book, that brought us Mounts that are gameplay in themselves apart from all the convenience.

 

I am a real boss with the Raptor and Skyscale, pretty good with the Griffon, ok with the Springer and Skimmer, but mediocre with the Beetle and Jackal.  Still lots of progression to make. 🙂

Edited August 25, 2021 by Tyncale.1629

[Gehenna.3625]

3 minutes ago, Tyncale.1629 said:

Mount was definately a hook for me with PoF. I really disliked all the running in GW2 from the very start. The game was good enough to accept that for the first years, but lots of people(me included) sort of 100% expected that Mounts would come some day.  And then they implemented the best Mount system in my book, that brought us Mounts that are gameplay in themselves apart from all the convenience.

 

I am a real boss with the Raptor and Skyscale, pretty good with the Griffon, ok with the Springer and Skimmer, but mediocre with the Beetle and Jackal.  Still lots of progression to make. 🙂

I am intrigued by the siege turtle mount. I mean, it's a walking siege weapon and it takes two people, so presumably one to move it and one to shoot the siege weapon. That interpretation comes with all sorts of consequences depending on where you can use it. I mean in WvW it's clearly a massive thing and may unhinge WvW, but then they might make specific maps for them where you need to use them in the meta for example. 

 

And while I'm at it, I would like to see demolition derby's with them where you can shoot at each other hehe.

[Randulf.7614]

After 9 years, id expect content to be the hook. HoT introduced features, but was light on maps and story and got away with it because of the highly replayable nature of it all. PoF had one big feature in mounts and a lot more maps, but limited replayability.

EoD hopefully keeps the features light, whilst piling on the content and story which they have already said will be highly replayable.

So at this point, yes content should be the hook. It doesn't need a game defining gimmick to be good

Although fishing, skiffs and a multi player mount are welcomed by me.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Randulf.7614

[Chaotic.9760]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Well what was the hook for HoT? Nobody cared about gliding and everybody knew the elites would be hell for balancing.

 

And what was the hook for PoF? Nobody wanted mounts either and even more elites... yeah... that turned out well for balance.

Well, I mentioned the hooks for HoT. If you didn't like gliding there's the entire Mastery system, which has redefined the game for level 80 players.

 

I'm just surprised there's nothing new beyond fishing, which as someone who's never played a single MMO outside of GW2, it doesn't wow me.

 

I was somewhat expecting this expansion to start bridging the gap between a potential GW3, but that doesn't seem to be Anets plan either.

[Chaotic.9760]

6 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

After 9 years, id expect content to be the hook. HoT introduced features, but was light on maps and story and got away with it because of the highly replayable nature of it all. PoF had one big feature in mounts and a lot more maps, but limited replayability.

EoD hopefully keeps the features light, whilst piling on the content and story which they have already said will be highly replayable.

So at this point, yes content should be the hook. It doesn't need a game defining gimmick to be good

Although fishing, skiffs and a multi player mount are welcomed by me.

This actually makes a bit of sense. Still slightly disappointing to me, even though I love new maps and story, but logically I think you may be on the right track.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

I would like to point out that we cannot feasibly expect them to provide new gamechanging mechanisms (likes of mastery system and mounts) at every single expansion they do - there has to be a point where they will need to stop doing these, even if only because there is only so many of such things you can squish ontop of each other.

 

That being said I would myself that the "big" thing of EoD are multi-player/functional mounts. Just as pof expanded on mastery system with using it to bring mounts, it seems fitting that EoD would expand that to give us mounts that cover different roles than "first gen" of mounts - which includes: 1. ability to carry multiple players (both siege turtle and skiff does that) and provide non-movement function - siege turtle being the first combat mount (second player controls artillery on it's back) and skiff being the "fishing mount" tho exact ramification of it seems not yet clear (we got confirmed that you can fish out of one, and play musical instruments, while on one and AN mentioned "anchoring" in preview stream, but after that recent trailer I am unsure if that will work in a way I thought it would from first peek)

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Chaotic.9760 said:

I'm really sorry if this topic is old news, but I haven't been on these forums in years and after some pretty deep searching I came up with little on this subject specifically.

 

What exactly is the 'hook' for End of Dragons?

 

Heart of Thorns introduced a number of new things including, but not limited to the mastery system, gliding, elite specializations, and the Revenant class. Many of these things were defining changes that impacted the base game moving forward. My mind is a bit fuzzy, but did raids originate from HoT? Maybe even guild halls?

 

Path of Fire introduced mounts as it's biggest feature in addition to more elite specializations and other copy/paste ideas from the past (more fractals, more raids, more guild halls, etc). Mounts were a defining change to GW2 as a whole, I would say.

 

Which brings us to End of Dragons. Besides the usual suspects of specializations, raids, fractals, mounts, etc, what is our game defining feature(s)? Please don't tell me fishing is that feature. I'm not seeing a single thing that sets End of Dragons apart from previous expansions and changes up the game.

What "hook" exactly do you need? Are you asking the same questions about the other mmorpg's expansions? I've seen a thread like this before in here and  I'm just wondering why is it ok for other mmorpgs to have an expansion with "new zones, maybe a class and that's about it", but for some reason it seems gw2 needs to reinvent things in every expansion with some people intentionally trying to downplay expansion-worthy content (like zones, story, 9 new especs) to be unacceptable despite the same people praising it for other games. What's up with that?

[Doggie.3184]

The whole hook is Cantha.

[Chaotic.9760]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What "hook" exactly do you need? Are you asking the same questions about the other mmorpg's expansions? I've seen a thread like this before in here and  I'm just wondering why is it ok for other mmorpgs to have an expansion with "new zones, maybe a class and that's about it", but for some reason it seems gw2 needs to reinvent things in every expansion with some people intentionally trying to downplay expansion-worthy content (like zones, story, 9 new especs) to be unacceptable despite the same people praising it for other games. What's up with that?

 

Sorry, I thought I explained my point of view clearly. I've never played an MMO outside of GW2 so I'm personally not going by anything other than what ANET has given me over the years. I guess they've kind of set up an internal expectation on what the expansions should have vs what the living world seasons have. Going by the Guild Wars 2 Wiki itself this is what I'm seeing for each expansion:

 

Heart of Thorns:

- Obligatory story/lore/new maps

- Obligatory PvP/WvW updates and additions

- New Fractals

- New legendary equipment

- Nine elite specializations

- The mastery system

- Gliding

- New profession: Revenant

- Guild Halls

- Raids

 

Path of Fire:

- Obligatory story/lore/new maps

- Obligatory PvP/WvW updates and additions

- New Fractals

- New legendary equipment

- Nine elite specializations

- New Raids

- New Guild Hall

- Mounts

- Strike missions
 

End of Dragons:

- Obligatory story/lore/new maps

- New legendary equipment

- Nine elite specializations

- New Guild Hall

- New strike missions

- New mounts

- Skiffs

- Fishing

 

Bold items are new features unique to the respective expansion. Everything else is new content for a previously released feature. Looking at just the bold items, to me, it seems as though EoD is a bit lackluster. We've gotten new mounts in the living world seasons so if skiffs (arguably a mount) and siege turtles are the tent pole features of the next big expansion, then yes, I'm left a bit disappointed and wondering what the hook is supposed to be. Things like new maps/story and elite specializations have become the base line expectation of expansions, but they shouldn't hold the entire product up.

 

As others have said, perhaps I'm expecting too much and this really is an expansion more focused on the story and map exploration, but for me, I'm not going to have much else to enjoy along the way. Mileage will vary, but I hardly ever touch the elite specializations because they're a sidestep for my characters, not a progressing forward step for them. And I spent the better part of a half decade working towards my first and only legendary for my Mesmer so I don't see myself doing that again no matter how many they release. I'm just wondering what is suppose to be the big thing here. Fishing ain't it.

[Linken.6345]

54 minutes ago, Chaotic.9760 said:

 

Sorry, I thought I explained my point of view clearly. I've never played an MMO outside of GW2 so I'm personally not going by anything other than what ANET has given me over the years. I guess they've kind of set up an internal expectation on what the expansions should have vs what the living world seasons have. Going by the Guild Wars 2 Wiki itself this is what I'm seeing for each expansion:

 

Heart of Thorns:

- Obligatory story/lore/new maps

- Obligatory PvP/WvW updates and additions

- New Fractals

- New legendary equipment

- Nine elite specializations

- The mastery system

- Gliding

- New profession: Revenant

- Guild Halls

- Raids

 

Path of Fire:

- Obligatory story/lore/new maps

- Obligatory PvP/WvW updates and additions

- New Fractals

- New legendary equipment

- Nine elite specializations

- New Raids

- New Guild Hall

- Mounts

- Strike missions
 

End of Dragons:

- Obligatory story/lore/new maps

- New legendary equipment

- Nine elite specializations

- New Guild Hall

- New strike missions

- New mounts

- Skiffs

- Fishing

 

Bold items are new features unique to the respective expansion. Everything else is new content for a previously released feature. Looking at just the bold items, to me, it seems as though EoD is a bit lackluster. We've gotten new mounts in the living world seasons so if skiffs (arguably a mount) and siege turtles are the tent pole features of the next big expansion, then yes, I'm left a bit disappointed and wondering what the hook is supposed to be. Things like new maps/story and elite specializations have become the base line expectation of expansions, but they shouldn't hold the entire product up.

 

As others have said, perhaps I'm expecting too much and this really is an expansion more focused on the story and map exploration, but for me, I'm not going to have much else to enjoy along the way. Mileage will vary, but I hardly ever touch the elite specializations because they're a sidestep for my characters, not a progressing forward step for them. And I spent the better part of a half decade working towards my first and only legendary for my Mesmer so I don't see myself doing that again no matter how many they release. I'm just wondering what is suppose to be the big thing here. Fishing ain't it.

You do know that 99% of the time elite specs are a step up right?

[Touchme.1097]

You guys forgot we are getting Strike mission CMs in EoD  and WvW alliance feature.

I think it's too early to sum things up and do a fair comparison. We can only do this after the EoD release, but not before because not everything has been revealed or tested yet so further investigations are futile.

[Chaotic.9760]

41 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

You do know that 99% of the time elite specs are a step up right?

Sure, I know they can be. I moved from the Chronomancer to the Mirage with my Mesmer and I personally can't see going back. But for the most part I would rather have something for my Mirage Mesmer to work towards that doesn't cause him to lose his Mirage abilities. I want forward movement, not side movement.

[Linken.6345]

46 minutes ago, Chaotic.9760 said:

Sure, I know they can be. I moved from the Chronomancer to the Mirage with my Mesmer and I personally can't see going back. But for the most part I would rather have something for my Mirage Mesmer to work towards that doesn't cause him to lose his Mirage abilities. I want forward movement, not side movement.

Sounded like you were still playing core all classes, mirage is a elite spec so your first post is kinda confusing.

[ugrakarma.9416]

Understand that they reached "ceiling" in matter of movement with mounts. so theres no really much room in that area, specially after skycale.

 

That's why i'm satisfied with the skiffs, at least will bring some use for a lot's of water in tyria.

[Roda.7468]

1 hour ago, Chaotic.9760 said:

I want forward movement, not side movement.

You are absolutely playing the wrong game if you want this for specs from expansions.

GW2 prides itself on being about horizontal progression at level cap.

[Chaotic.9760]

1 minute ago, Roda.7468 said:

You are absolutely playing the wrong game if you want this for specs from expansions.

GW2 prides itself on being about horizontal progression at level cap.

We are getting way off topic here. I don't mind side movement in GW2 and I know it prides itself in it. My point with this post is that the side movement stuff we're getting in the next expansion is not as exciting as the stuff in previous expansions and I thought it odd. That's all.