[Vid] Virtuoso PvP Guide Part 1 (Gameplay Part) + Community Chest Giveaway

[JazzXman.7018]

Hi new vid up.

 

i originally planned to do one even bigger/ longer essay vid guide about the virtuoso but the editing of the explanation and mechancial analysis and gameplay tips/tricks part needs way longer, so i decided to already upload the gameplay part of it (the vid is bit shorter this way, also still very long lol).

 

for the give away participation rules pls check the pinned commend under the vid on youtube!  i hope few of you can enjoy! greetings o/

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

the video shows issues with virtuoso.
you end up making copies of mirage builds and playing exactly the same but with a handicap instead.
Im surprised ether feast works with knives, after testing signet and inspiration I just assumed it wont work, im sure it will be nerfed shortly.

[JazzXman.7018]

1 hour ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

the video shows issues with virtuoso.
you end up making copies of mirage builds and playing exactly the same but with a handicap instead.
Im surprised ether feast works with knives, after testing signet and inspiration I just assumed it wont work, im sure it will be nerfed shortly.

you only counted one handicap? 🤣 

 

mesmer got mechanically deleted from eod. i guess to make it more casual friendly, less complex, easier to play and easier to play against and more mainstream/coffee-tabled for the masses. funny that this new profession (i refuse to call it a mesmer until dooms day) overall deletes counterplay compared to shattermes, at least the moment they will make it viable with requested changes to reduce clunkyness. since blades as a setup-mechanic have way less counterplay than clones (enemy cant interact with them at all and mes also doesnt need to care for clone positioning, clone spawn timing etc. so its also an insane deletion of mechancial complexity and tactical deepness and skill ceiling compared to mesmer). and just adding some casttime to songs will not make up for it, as long as songs dont have the current triple downgrade which as a side effect make it so clunky.

 

casttime is simply not all that determines counterplay (just as offensive instant skills are not per se, in general bad for the game, thats an insanely narrowed view on the topic), and the skill ceiling/cap that got deleted by replacing fast paced combo gameplay with simple chaincasting carried by quicknessspam to just range spam until enemy is out of defensive cds and then burst with one simple button use doesnt make it better.

 

neither visual clutter got reduced compared to clones nor is virtuoso unable to stealth burst with low tell, while now only need one button out of stealth after more or less passively stacking blades while spamming dmg skills left and right. and the projectiles have even worse visibility than gs2 when casted in stealth. 

 

but respect for turning mesmer completely away from its core identity basic mechanics while not even adding any new mechanics, instead just recycle traits and skills from core and other classes in a downgraded slomo version my grandma can understand and play/play against on her first day in gw2. 

 

like when you delete mes and release a new profession for eod, why not at least give it 5 new weaponsskills and release double dagger? why is f3 not a hard lock down cc like revs temporal rift so you can pull enemies in line for your piercing dmg f1/f2 songs? bc when you add casttime to f3 anyway, then you can turn it into a lock down cc (since a short interupt focused daze doesnt make sense with casttime). a lock down cc that actually has synergy with the song mechanics. so anet could have put a bit more creativity and work here. atm its nothing more than a recycler profession super far away from mesmers core defining mechanics.

 

all mesmer hater are happy tho. goal reached i guess.

 

will be super funny bc the moment that prof is playable after some clunkyness reduction (songs useable without target and into the mesmers back for example) this spec will be the most broken thing just without the trade off of higher skill requirement, higher mechanical complexity and tactical deepness previous mesmer specs have built into their spec mechanics. and with overall less counterplay than classic mesmer, even tho it has no instant shatters. He who laughs last laughs longest.

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Leonidrex.5649]

2 hours ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

you only counted one handicap? 🤣 

 

mesmer got mechanically deleted from eod. i guess to make it more casual friendly, less complex, easier to play and easier to play against and more mainstream/coffee-tabled for the masses. funny that this new profession (i refuse to call it a mesmer until dooms day) overall deletes counterplay compared to shattermes, at least the moment they will make it viable with requested changes to reduce clunkyness. since blades as a setup-mechanic have way less counterplay than clones (enemy cant interact with them at all and mes also doesnt need to care for clone positioning, clone spawn timing etc. so its also an insane deletion of mechancial complexity and tactical deepness and skill ceiling compared to mesmer). and just adding some casttime to songs will not make up for it, as long as songs dont have the current triple downgrade which as a side effect make it so clunky.

 

casttime is simply not all that determines counterplay (just as offensive instant skills are not per se, in general bad for the game, thats an insanely narrowed view on the topic), and the skill ceiling/cap that got deleted by replacing fast paced combo gameplay with simple chaincasting carried by quicknessspam to just range spam until enemy is out of defensive cds and then burst with one simple button use doesnt make it better.

 

neither visual clutter got reduced compared to clones nor is virtuoso unable to stealth burst with low tell, while now only need one button out of stealth after more or less passively stacking blades while spamming dmg skills left and right. and the projectiles have even worse visibility than gs2 when casted in stealth. 

 

but respect for turning mesmer completely away from its core identity basic mechanics while not even adding any new mechanics, instead just recycle traits and skills from core and other classes in a downgraded slomo version my grandma can understand and play/play against on her first day in gw2. 

 

like when you delete mes and release a new profession for eod, why not at least give it 5 new weaponsskills and release double dagger? why is f3 not a hard lock down cc like revs temporal rift so you can pull enemies in line for your piercing dmg f1/f2 songs? bc when you add casttime to f3 anyway, then you can turn it into a lock down cc (since a short interupt focused daze doesnt make sense with casttime). a lock down cc that actually has synergy with the song mechanics. so anet could have put a bit more creativity and work here. atm its nothing more than a recycler profession super far away from mesmers core defining mechanics.

 

all mesmer hater are happy tho. goal reached i guess.

 

will be super funny bc the moment that prof is playable after some clunkyness reduction (songs useable without target and into the mesmers back for example) this spec will be the most broken thing just without the trade off of higher skill requirement, higher mechanical complexity and tactical deepness previous mesmer specs have built into their spec mechanics. and with overall less counterplay than classic mesmer, even tho it has no instant shatters. He who laughs last laughs longest.

 

when I tried virtuoso, I wondered in every single fight if I wouldnt do better in a core with 2 traitlines.
 

[JazzXman.7018]

1 hour ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

when I tried virtuoso, I wondered in every single fight if I wouldnt do better in a core with 2 traitlines.
 

🤣

 

edit: it dont even think its weak, the dmg is totally there and shouldnt be buffed its just ruined and dumbed down in mechancis. its like they did the clueless and lazy one dodge nerf from mirage just pre release to virtuoso instead developping interesting and fair new mesmerish mechanics. while now going even further and completely delete mesmer from the game. this thing doesnt need more skill nor does it have more counterplay or reduce the visual clutter...

Edited August 29, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Kuma.1503]

Anet were so focused on giving Virtuoso negative trade-offs they forgot trade-offs were supposed to have upsides. 

[JazzXman.7018]

29 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Anet were so focused on giving Virtuoso negative trade-offs they forgot trade-offs were supposed to have upsides. 

haha yep, if at least trade offs would fit into the mechanics and add skill requirement instead straight up contradicting and dumbing down mechanics... 

[RedAvenged.5217]

You guys just wish u could zoom around the map like my willbender

[Terrorhuz.4695]

2 hours ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

🤣

 

the dmg is totally there and shouldnt be buffed

600 damage on zerk amulet with dagger

Edited August 29, 2021 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Stand The Wall.6987]

looks like f1 does around 5k damage on average. ppl are complaining about this? i realize its much less then clones but you're at a safe distance and don't have to spend blink.

 

edit

f2 does 5k too lol.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Stand The Wall.6987

[Abelisk.5148]

Just now, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

looks like f1 does around 5k damage on average. ppl are complaining about this? i realize its much less then clones but you're at a safe distance and don't have to spend blink.

We've been saying it has the damage. It just lacks everything else. No emergency distort or daze. Weak new weapon kit. Meh elite skill. Redundant traits and some weaker options (why take anything BUT Infinite Forge for the GM?) Even the utility skills don't seem that good besides the invuln one, but that's a crutch for the lack of Distort.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

23 minutes ago, Abelisk.5148 said:

We've been saying it has the damage. It just lacks everything else. No emergency distort or daze. Weak new weapon kit. Meh elite skill. Redundant traits and some weaker options (why take anything BUT Infinite Forge for the GM?) Even the utility skills don't seem that good besides the invuln one, but that's a crutch for the lack of Distort.

seems like they were going for a trade off, ranged damage for on demand defense. makes sense.

 

edit

also f4 is a 4s block on a 30sec cd? how is that bad.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Stand The Wall.6987

[Leonidrex.5649]

4 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

seems like they were going for a trade off, ranged damage for on demand defense. makes sense.

 

edit

also f4 is a 4s block on a 30sec cd? how is that bad.

you lose 4s of instant disortion for 4s of channeled block.
and since e-spec has 0 cleansing whatsoever, gl without a disort lol

[Leonidrex.5649]

14 hours ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

Hi new vid up.

 

i originally planned to do one even bigger/ longer essay vid guide about the virtuoso but the editing of the explanation and mechancial analysis and gameplay tips/tricks part needs way longer, so i decided to already upload the gameplay part of it (the vid is bit shorter this way, also still very long lol).

 

for the give away participation rules pls check the pinned commend under the vid on youtube!  i hope few of you can enjoy! greetings o/

 

 

32:41 
for mirage leap/sword leap special

 

[JazzXman.7018]

8 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

You guys just wish u could zoom around the map like my willbender

true, new guard main here just for the zoom! but when i want to be overly useful while zooming i better go necro

[JazzXman.7018]

8 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

600 damage on zerk amulet with dagger

even dagger has good dmg when you got used to it. the problem is more that you can simply side step the slow projectiles, so its not rly a range weapon what i actually like about it. and its main strength is, that you have a nearly instant low cd blade generation on dagger2. buffing its dmg would pretty fast make it obnoxious while not deleting its mechancial issues. the problem with dagger is, that it is just a pretty braindead spam weapon without any tactical deepness (thats like the whole profession more or less, just dmg spam from more or less range with a low iq blade setup mechanic that has way less tactical deepness but alos way less counterplay than clones), it has no defense and no utility, no mobility. if you just buff its dmg even more you get another ranger axe syndrom.

Edited August 30, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[JazzXman.7018]

7 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

32:41 
for mirage leap/sword leap special

 

i mean yes it almost looks like they tried to make virtuoso to suffer from all known bugs in the game and make it as clunky as possible. making it all projectiles with targetneed (so you cant even manually aim into stealthed targets or precast and then about face retarget) and also add face your target requirement after we complained about mantra of distraction not hitting without reasons due to face your target nonsense that has like a 20 degree hitbox instead 180 degree, getting obstructed and no line of sighted for no reason by little uneven ground ect. we also can enjoy the miss miss miss and obstructed for no reason projectile bugs on moving targets on every single skill of that new profession. and ofc the only nice skill in the kit (sword3) has the sword ambush bug included as feature and even more also likes to bug and doesnt leap you forward but on spot sometimes (aside from the missing little icd that often makes you double click it so you get instantly backported without doing dmg).

Edited August 30, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[JazzXman.7018]

7 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

you lose 4s of instant disortion for 4s of channeled block.
and since e-spec has 0 cleansing whatsoever, gl without a disort lol

the only distort that is instant is one second. the other seconds have setup requirement to spawn clones and keep them alive until you have 3 of them up. then the distort also consumes all the setup resource as a trade off. 

the new block only gets affected by its dmg from blades. dmg that will make your block get interupted and neutralized by shocking aura stuff and reveales you. dmg that is so low that it harms you more than it helps.

 

also a channeled block that will be completely neutralized by unblockable cc, what is deadly for a prof that shares mesmers basic squishyness. guard/warriors and even engis have other strengths and more facetank and resustain abilities to deal with that. mesmer doesnt, esp since the block has the additional downgrade of consuming prof resource (blades) for still low dmg harms you more than anything.

 

f4 needs to be a shield block (bit like arcane shield from ele) during you can cast other stuff and that isnt completely gone when you get hit by unblockable cc. the distortion utility should be also a stunbreak (what isnt too much to ask when it has 60 secs cd) but can stay a channel then, esp since you can stow blade renewal and still keep the distortion up and only lose the remaining blade generation what is imo a fair trade.

 

 

the problem is, when you do all the changes which make sense in terms of making this new prof playable and less clunky, it will end up to become the most broken thing on the planet with  way less counterplay than classic mesmer (even tho it has no instant shatters) while now it is so easy to play and needs way less skill to be impactful with it that every newbie will be able to be carried by it. so its another scourge everyone can relog to in few days when it has a viable meta build. what is also what mesmer haters (the ones who are actually not in gold and lower div) wanted, a spec they can easy relog to when it is good, not a high iq high skill requirement class like classic mes with high iq utilties like portal, no one can simply relog to and your team has problems without access to a good mesmer main...

Edited August 30, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

10 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

looks like f1 does around 5k damage on average. ppl are complaining about this? i realize its much less then clones but you're at a safe distance and don't have to spend blink.

 

edit

f2 does 5k too lol.

That would be true if ranged weapons weren't all trash on virt.

Staff and scepter pressure without clones is pathetic, GS damaging skill still needs to be on melee and even worse without clones it will hit only once without any bounce at range, dagger is absolute trash.

So yeah, who cares about 1200 range shatters if you still need to be at melee.

[Quadox.7834]

10 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

seems like they were going for a trade off, ranged damage for on demand defense. makes sense.

 

edit

also f4 is a 4s block on a 30sec cd? how is that bad.

1. You will never hit f1 on high range, ever. The tracking is next level terrible.

2. It's not 4s block, it's literally 1.5 seconds.

[JazzXman.7018]

44 minutes ago, Quadox.7834 said:

1. You will never hit f1 on high range, ever. The tracking is next level terrible.

2. It's not 4s block, it's literally 1.5 seconds.

yep but bug report is planned for guide part 2. so i didnt mention until now

[mortrialus.3062]

15 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Anet were so focused on giving Virtuoso negative trade-offs they forgot trade-offs were supposed to have upsides. 

This perfectly sums up exactly what went wrong with Virtuoso.

Edited August 30, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[mortrialus.3062]

12 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

looks like f1 does around 5k damage on average. ppl are complaining about this? i realize its much less then clones but you're at a safe distance and don't have to spend blink.

 

edit

f2 does 5k too lol.

The F1 requires 5 blades to get that 5k damage which requires actual set up on berserker amulet.  A DH on beserker amulet can fire off a true shot with no set up with has the same cast time and a faster projectile for as much damage.  And if they use a spear of justice to proc the damage multipliers from traits they can  easily be critting for 10k+ with that , which again has like 1/10th the set up time and cooldown use as getting 5 blades. 

 

Rapid Fire with no set up on ranger does as much damage as setting up a maximum power F1 on Virtuoso.

Edited August 30, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[mortrialus.3062]

15 hours ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

🤣

 

edit: it dont even think its weak, the dmg is totally there and shouldnt be buffed its just ruined and dumbed down in mechancis. its like they did the clueless and lazy one dodge nerf from mirage just pre release to virtuoso instead developping interesting and fair new mesmerish mechanics. while now going even further and completely delete mesmer from the game. this thing doesnt need more skill nor does it have more counterplay or reduce the visual clutter...

The damage is absolutely not there.    Pretty much everything needs at least a 50% damage increase except maybe the auto attack if they actually get the thing working.  Some areas of the class deserver a 400-600% damage increase.  There's no reason a 5 blade F1 should hit less than a 1 clone+Illusory Persona Mind Wrack.  That's just silly.  Multiple longrange builds, from Ranger to DH to Deadeye can right out the gate do double the damage of a maximum power Virtuoso F1 and they don't need any set up or a fraction of the set up to do it. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[JazzXman.7018]

2 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

The damage is absolutely not there.    Pretty much everything needs at least a 50% damage increase except maybe the auto attack if they actually get the thing working.  Some areas of the class deserver a 400-600% damage increase.  There's no reason a 5 blade F1 should hit less than a 1 clone+Illusory Persona Mind Wrack.  That's just silly.  Multiple longrange builds, from Ranger to DH to Deadeye can right out the gate do double the damage of a maximum power Virtuoso F1 and they don't need any set up or a fraction of the set up to do it. 

i mean yes in comparision you are right with some of your points (your numbers are a bit crazy tho) but i never give balance suggestions to make mesmer (or any class) as braindead, easy to play and broken as other meta stuff (and some non meta stuff) in the game. not only is high dmg spam pretty unreactive spam at some point the dmg gets too high but you also enable an pretty obnoxious, broken and low skill requirement chaos inspi playtsyle that still has kill potential with it. 

 

i make balance suggestions for a highly skillbased, healthy and fair gamewide meta with reactive/ interactive fight-interactions with high iq outplay potential but also a fair amount of high iq counterplay and the least possible player carry by builds. 

 

 and while i kept myself out of other classes channels to leave those to the main ppl who clearly have more clue about that class than i do, i always  just hoped, that other ppl for their main classes have the same as least as possible biased toward classes/builds approach and do the same sugestions for a healthy, fair and skillful balance of the class they love. 

just as i hoped that devs have enough clue about the game and all classes to distinguish between healthy and as much as possible objective suggestions with the only bias towards high skill requirement and just selfish "dont nerf my class but delete the class i hate" suggestions.

 just as i hoped that devs  know pvp and the classes they balance well enough and also have enough resources for fair and senseful balance steps

(some/well most of hose hopes turned out to be pretty delusional from my side the last months)

Edited August 30, 2021 by JazzXman.7018