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Can EoD introduce the concept or earning some mount skins in game?


Hanako.1827

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2 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Not only that, but when a player obtains the desired skin, they probably won't play that content anymore.

 

So? Whats the point you're making exactly? If the players played that content before they probably won't want to play that content anymore? Or worse if that content has no decent reward incentive they probably won't play it at all. One of the most hated aspects of raids in GW2 is that the rewards felt petty for the effort. 

 

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3 hours ago, shrew.3059 said:

I think the problem is that you want a cashless route to rewards ANet could charge cash for. They need that cash to run the game, so if they give you what you ask, you are costing them money, not making them money.

 

If the argument is that giving you a cashless route would inspire you (or someone else) to spend the equivalent amount of money at some time in the future, then it may be worth it, but I assume they have run the numbers and assessed how many rewards to paywall.

 

I personally do not believe introducing some mount skins to earn in game that were relatively hard would effect the balance of income if it was like a 20/80 split with the favour of the gem store and the in game earnable skins being  relatively hard. Its not that I want a cashless route, its that I want a better game in general, I have sod all to do because reward incentives are so miniscule.

 

Also I disagree with  the latter part because I don't think the inclusion of the legendary back pieces and their gliders hampered the income of glider skin sales. Whales will always stay, players who want something to commit to will find GW2 rather frigid. 

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9 minutes ago, Hanako.1827 said:

 

 

So? Whats the point you're making exactly? If the players played that content before they probably won't want to play that content anymore? Or worse if that content has no decent reward incentive they probably won't play it at all. One of the most hated aspects of raids in GW2 is that the rewards felt petty for the effort. 

 

Putting mount skins behind specific in-game content will populate that content until the player obtains their skin.  Afterward, they will no longer engage in that content (generally speaking).  Why would Anet spend resources on content that could be "one and done" for players?

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3 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Putting mount skins behind specific in-game content will populate that content until the player obtains their skin.  Afterward, they will no longer engage in that content (generally speaking).  Why would Anet spend resources on content that could be "one and done" for players?

Don’t know how to tell you but, Anet already does that. Players already do specific things in the game for a specific reward. The answer is that you don’t have a single reward for content so that reward-driven players have a reason to want to play past one goal and you can also make the content fun and challenging. If content is engaging and has some benefit outside a mount skin then you’ll still see people play. If people can’t conquer a challenge on the first try then you’ll see repeated attempts at success. 

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1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Putting mount skins behind specific in-game content will populate that content until the player obtains their skin.  Afterward, they will no longer engage in that content (generally speaking).  Why would Anet spend resources on content that could be "one and done" for players?

If hypothetically the content to earn the mount had a challenge mode in order to obtain the mount in the first place, wouldn't that technically incentivize repeat play through of old content? Because this exact concept has been shown in other MMO's, even the simple premise of collections for the skyscale had the player (granted in a bare bones form) revisiting old maps.

 

I don't know a lot of people that go through living world once they're done with it, but I know plenty of people that will literally organise a day outside of their raid schedule to go into a raid and do the achievements to earn a mount, or even go back to old raids in other MMO's. 

 

I feel like you're committed to dying on this hill of "every skin has to be a gemstore item otherwise anet makes no money." theory.

Edited by Hanako.1827
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1 minute ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

All the gemstore items can be earned in-game by earning gold and exchanging it for gems though?

 

I mean theres already multiple posts in this thread as to why that isn't a particularly effective mindset for some. Having indistinguishable rewards from a credit card purchase and gold purchase doesn't provoke a lot of pristine backing for a mount which is what makes them gameplay incentives in other MMO's. Like rare mount exclusively tied to PvP, dungeons or raids is an indication of skill in that subsection, or a rare drop mount is an indication of being very lucky or committed to farming an enemy. 

 

Theres a reason people stop and stare at certain players on say a gladiator mount in WoW, or say they're jealous of a Time Lost Proto Drake.

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Again, I don't see a business reason for Anet to do this.

The skyscale example is flawed, IMO.  Sure, players returned to older maps but only to do the content required for the skyscale.  It didn't engage them enough to remain in the older maps.  Once a large majority of players got their skyscales, it was difficult for those who didn't to find maps populated enough to do the necessary content for their own skyscales.

As for your raid example, how many of those players do you know that would organize a day outside of their raid schedule to do the content necessary for a mount skin once they have already obtained it?  Unless there are other rewards within that content, I can't imagine players would go back to it.

And, as has been pointed out, there is the gold to gem conversion which allows anyone to obtain items from the gem store.  Granted, this will not necessarily bring in a lot of capital either, but clearly Anet is managing well enough with that business model to allow it to continue.

Would it be cool to have skins obtained from actual content?  For some (perhaps many?), sure, just as having skins available for gems is preferred for other players.  If Anet could find a profitable way to do both, then that might satisfy a large majority of the base.  I'm guessing that their data says otherwise.

 

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22 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Again, I don't see a business reason for Anet to do this.

Again I'm not asking if you're an investor. At this rate I'm just going to ask, if you could magically Thanos snap your fingers and allowed this to be a change that wouldn't effect the income of the game would you want it. Since it feels like you're just playing devils advocate for a company you neither work for, nor are and investor in. Im finding it hard to distinguish your position from others in the thread that wants everything easily is all.

 

22 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

The skyscale example is flawed, IMO.  Sure, players returned to older maps but only to do the content required for the skyscale.  It didn't engage them enough to remain in the older maps.  Once a large majority of players got their skyscales, it was difficult for those who didn't to find maps populated enough to do the necessary content for their own skyscales.

I mean I already mentioned the flaw with it being bare bones. But nope its still perfectly valid and sound if you read the contingency I made about it being implemented through challenge modes of particular content like living world. Also.... yeah... thats the point, they return to maps to do the content, if my desire is more of that then there's now more incentives right? Also that last part is simply not true, me and my partner got ours a whole year later with no issue, some friends of mine a year after that. 

 

22 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

As for your raid example, how many of those players do you know that would organize a day outside of their raid schedule to do the content necessary for a mount skin once they have already obtained it?  Unless there are other rewards within that content, I can't imagine players would go back to it.

I mean there's a reason the term mount runs exist dude, I actually don't know if you've played another MMO outside of GW2 now because this quote is too indicative that you maybe haven't. Also you act like the content has to be INFINETELY replayable, which is  a strawman you're making in your head, I can't even suggest that is even possible. But it certainly would make it content to be able to go back to a few times before you wipe your hands with it if incentivizes going back, as opposed to literally doing it once which is the outcome of your position which is essentially the experience with living world and most dungeons of this game.

 

22 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

And, as has been pointed out, there is the gold to gem conversion which allows anyone to obtain items from the gem store.  Granted, this will not necessarily bring in a lot of capital either, but clearly Anet is managing well enough with that business model to allow it to continue.

 

And, as has been pointed out. That is not a sound argument because people like pristine uniqueness tied behind certain ways to get mounts. I don't understand how this concept is hard for you to grasp? Do you think legendries would have an equal amount of value as they do now if they were gemstore items?

 

22 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Would it be cool to have skins obtained from actual content?  For some (perhaps many?), sure, just as having skins available for gems is preferred for other players.  If Anet could find a profitable way to do both, then that might satisfy a large majority of the base.  I'm guessing that their data says otherwise.

The problem is we don't have a strong reference for if that;s the case because the initial incentive were mount skins being exclusive. The only thing we could go off of are the skin gliders from the legendary back pieces effecting sales of the gem store glider skins (something I very much doubt effected skin glider sales)

Edited by Hanako.1827
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1 minute ago, Hanako.1827 said:

Does it have to in order for the collection to warrant existing in the first place? What a stupid argument

Certainly it does.  Why would Anet expend precious resources for content that players only play once?  Your questioning of that concept, to me, shows business ignorance.

Just because you disagree doesn't make it stupid.  Saying so only weakens your credibility in debate.

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I see nothing wrong with adding rare drops like a mount to events bosses factuals w/e. Its not a guaranteed drop its a possible drop on the loot table. It can incentivze people to do content they normally would not, it can revitalize dead content. Its a good thing for the game to give your playerbase a chance at a big ingame reward like a mount. 

Personally it feels good to earn the items in game rather than buy them. Its an accomplishment, rather than whip out the cc and  just buy it. 

Edited by Zuldari.3940
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1 minute ago, Hanako.1827 said:

They're are people in this thread who legitimately do not believe that is the case for some reason. 

This is a problem, because most people I know play games to have fun , but also have rewards. Its called incentive to play, hoping for that drop, then ecstatic when it finally happens. You know people that play FF and WoW do so because there is a ton of things to be rewarded in game, years and years worth of content to build your achievements and rewards on. I was a mount and weapon and pet  collector in those games, there was always something to work towards and collect. And it felt good to get rewarded whether it was a random drop or a long quest chain that ended in a nice reward.

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4 minutes ago, MokahTGS.7850 said:

The mechanic already exists:  Gold to Gems Exchange.  That is how they allow gem skins for gameplay.  This is not going to change anytime soon.

As was made clear to me people have to buy those gems to sell on the gold exchange. The less people that do so the more the price increases. What happens when there are not enough players doing that and the cost in gold is astronomical? Because we have seen the price go up significantly over the years.  

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1 minute ago, Hanako.1827 said:

Its so much worse than that. I am listening to you, I just don't really respect your opinion because you've avoided questions constantly like a cat does rain and been unable to back it up. Now that Ive asked you to defend something that exists in game and will continue to exist, that you previously is something you deemed as business ignorance and a waste of time and resources, you're now running with your tail between your legs. 

(sigh)

Yes, I admit that there are collections which mimic what you are suggesting.  Let me ask you this:  suppose a mount skin were offered as a "collection" type of content in the Domain of Vabbi.  Would you do any content on that map other than the minimum required to get that skin?  This is entirely my point, which you seem to not understand.

There were a lot of threads about the death of the maps where people were trying to complete content for various reasons, collections, skyscale or whatever.  Maybe Anet has learned from these and has realized that collections aren't good for map population retention?  Or, further, such things do not bring in enough profit?  Perhaps their data shows that many more players will go after mount skins than other collections, so it makes more sense to sell them in the gemstore instead of giving them away for free via map content collections?

I am not running away or anything.  I just find it no longer worth my time to continue to try to get you to understand my point of view.  Instead, you'd rather be contentious so sure, fine, whatever,  you win the thread.  I hope that makes your day.

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54 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Exactly.  And do players repeat the same content for the collections once they have achieved them?

Nope, but Anet still brings out collections because this gives replay value to existing content. So your argument below doesn't fly:

40 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Certainly it does.  Why would Anet expend precious resources for content that players only play once?  Your questioning of that concept, to me, shows business ignorance.

Just because you disagree doesn't make it stupid.  Saying so only weakens your credibility in debate.

So really, looking at how many collections the game has and keeps getting, I think you should use terms like "ignorance" and "weakens your credibility" more sparingly. 

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2 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

When they start releasing mount skins as obtainable through game play, and not the gemstore, then we'll know.

I mean if the grand majority of the player base thinks like you and unreservedly backs every incentive of Arenanet earning quick money even if its comes to the detriment of game quality long term, which given the time past is plausible at this rate. Then unfortunately that probably won't be the case. 

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1 hour ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

As was made clear to me people have to buy those gems to sell on the gold exchange. The less people that do so the more the price increases. What happens when there are not enough players doing that and the cost in gold is astronomical? Because we have seen the price go up significantly over the years.  

Well then some people who cant be bothered to farm gold will just buy gems with cash and exchange gems for gold brining it down again.

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