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Can EoD introduce the concept or earning some mount skins in game?


Hanako.1827

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46 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

That'll be me... I can't stand farming. I'm a hero, not a peasant! 😉

Thats me in cases where its something i want, and no way am i farming gold like some bot farmer working in a sweatshop. I dropped 95 dollars cash in less than 2 months to get things i wanted. Thats about a year sub in wow or ff if you prebuy the sub. In that years times in those games i could have had multiple mounts rare and epic weapons and transmogs, all kinds of pets. the cost of which to buy through the gem shop would have been thousands. I have over 300 mounts and a thousand pets, uncountable numbers of weapons and gear in that game.It would have cost me a fortune to have here, good thing here is most mounts are just basic with only a few being different. In wow there are numerous different beast and mechanical mounts to collect.

 

I get it that anet is a much smaller company, but sometimes i think NCSoft pulls the reigns too tight, they are all about the bottom line.

Edited by Zuldari.3940
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On 9/15/2021 at 9:19 AM, Hanako.1827 said:

 

So? I enjoy collection and hard things to obtain. Its why skyscales were initially impressive to see around. That sounds like a dream compared to every mount being in the gemstore to me personally. If skyscales had a liscence pass to get them that would be infinitely more horrific. 

I, too, enjoyed the Skyscale collection and asked for more like it; unfortunately it's not that popular with the playerbase in toto.  I'm guessing the studio is unlikely to give up one of their best moneymakers just to aggravate a portion of their customers (especially if the skins were put in Raids/high-level Fractals/Skyscale-length/complexity collections). 

 

But, who knows?

Edited by Inculpatus cedo.9234
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2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Nope, but Anet still brings out collections because this gives replay value to existing content. So your argument below doesn't fly:

So really, looking at how many collections the game has and keeps getting, I think you should use terms like "ignorance" and "weakens your credibility" more sparingly. 

Hmm.  How many of those collections offer the reward of a high-revenue Gem Store item like a Mount Skin?  It seems, to me, there are few highly-desired items (especially those found in the Gem Store) offered as rewards; if highly-desired rewards are offered, they are usually RNG and very, very rare.

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12 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Hmm.  How many of those collections offer the reward of a high-revenue Gem Store item like a Mount Skin?  It seems, to me, there are few highly-desired items (especially those found in the Gem Store) offered as rewards; if highly-desired rewards are offered, they are usually RNG and very, very rare.

Well the argument that was made that I responded to was that Anet wouldn't "waste" resources on one-time content. But they do make one-time content.

 

As for your other point here, there are collections that provide backpack, armor and weapon skins. Those are all things you can buy in the gem store. However, don't get me wrong...I don't support this idea. I just explained why an argument against it was not a correct argument. That doesn't make me a supporter of this concept.

Edited by Gehenna.3625
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23 hours ago, Hanako.1827 said:

 

 

I mean theres already multiple posts in this thread as to why that isn't a particularly effective mindset for some. Having indistinguishable rewards from a credit card purchase and gold purchase doesn't provoke a lot of pristine backing for a mount which is what makes them gameplay incentives in other MMO's. Like rare mount exclusively tied to PvP, dungeons or raids is an indication of skill in that subsection, or a rare drop mount is an indication of being very lucky or committed to farming an enemy. 

 

Theres a reason people stop and stare at certain players on say a gladiator mount in WoW, or say they're jealous of a Time Lost Proto Drake.

But WoW is subscription based and GW2 is not. GW2 needs to be profitable to the devs and the Gemstore is the way. They're actually extremely generous for letting us convert gold to gems. Plus there already is incentive for doing content in the form of Titles, skins, and the actual mount itself etc. It's not appropriate to compare how wow gives out cosmetics to how gw2 does it because the two games have entirely different business models.

If this model isn't effective to some, then I'm sorry to say but GW2 may not be the best MMO for them. There are other great ones that have a subscription model that gives mount skins as direct rewards for doing in-game activities.

Plus, aren't legendaries already stop-and-stare worthy enough? They're earned in-game and can't be accessed through the gem store. Maybe refocus your efforts to that?

 

Edited by HowlKamui.5120
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23 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

As was made clear to me people have to buy those gems to sell on the gold exchange. The less people that do so the more the price increases. What happens when there are not enough players doing that and the cost in gold is astronomical? Because we have seen the price go up significantly over the years.  

You say this like this isn't what ANet wants.  They don't want to release skins in content because it makes them less money.  They have allowed gold to gems exchange as a way of defending against the pay2win accusations.  Technically, they cannot be skewered by the US justice department because everything that is available on the gem store can be obtained by playing the game.  No money required makes it pretty hard to argue P2Win.

 

Personally, I don't mind this model.  I don't need skins, don't feel they are necessary to "win" the game, so I don't feel the need to buy gems.  Other people do, so they buy gems.  This profits me and ANet as the developer gets the $$ for gems and I get the gems from other players.

 

All I'm saying is that this request for more skins via content is not new.  People have been asking for that for years.  It has not changed.  It hasn't changed because ANet does not want to lose the revenue stream.  From a business standpoint, why would they?

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55 minutes ago, MokahTGS.7850 said:

All I'm saying is that this request for more skins via content is not new.  People have been asking for that for years.  It has not changed.  It hasn't changed because ANet does not want to lose the revenue stream.  From a business standpoint, why would they?

Ever hear the expression, throw them a bone? usually used in a manner that means give them a little something to make them happy. these are humans we are talking about, not walking credit cards.

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6 hours ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

But WoW is subscription based and GW2 is not. GW2 needs to be profitable to the devs and the Gemstore is the way. They're actually extremely generous for letting us convert gold to gems. Plus there already is incentive for doing content in the form of Titles, skins, and the actual mount itself etc. It's not appropriate to compare how wow gives out cosmetics to how gw2 does it because the two games have entirely different business models.

If this model isn't effective to some, then I'm sorry to say but GW2 may not be the best MMO for them.

Then what business does it have calling itself an MMORPG? If the initial proposition of GW2 before it released, included the  current formula you think is fair than the truth is GW2 initial release would have probably sold so poorly that it wouldn't see an expansion. Its literally happy being a game for the few whales who prop it up which is saddening to me. Its further saddening that its a point that people are happy with. 

Also if guild wars 2 doesn't have an armour chase for stats, and relies on cosmetics, but those cosmetics are mostly affiliated with the gem store. Then what actually is the progression incentive in guild wars 2 if its neither cosmetics or stats?

Edited by Hanako.1827
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7 minutes ago, Hanako.1827 said:

Then what business does it have calling itself an MMORPG? If the initial proposition of GW2 before it released, included the  current formula you think is fair than the truth is GW2 initial release would have probably sold so poorly that it wouldn't see an expansion. Its literally happy being a game for the few whales who prop it up which is saddening to me. Its further saddening that its a point that people are happy with. 

Also if guild wars 2 doesn't have an armour chase for stats, and relies on cosmetics, but those cosmetics are mostly affiliated with the gem store. Then what actually is the progression incentive in guild wars 2 if its neither cosmetics or stats?


MMORPGs are large scale role playing games which GW2 is what do you mean.

Also, GW2 currently IS like this because the business model on release almost killed the game. You also have no right to judge other people who are happy playing the game in its current iteration. It is what has worked for the game and its community.

You suggesting for the game to have an armor chase for stats for it to have a sense of progression for you (vertical progression, basically) tells me that you don't fully grasp how unique GW2 is as an MMO. This game is not about a gear treadmill and that's what I (and others) enjoy about this game. 

I suggest watching some comparison videos between MMOs you're familiar with and GW2 as this game really isn't your vertical progression MMO. If you don't like how this game is set-up, then sorry to say but GW2 isn't the game for you.

There are other bigger MMOs that have the progression you are looking for.

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On 9/15/2021 at 7:06 PM, kharmin.7683 said:

Again, I don't see a business reason for Anet to do this.

The skyscale example is flawed, IMO.  Sure, players returned to older maps but only to do the content required for the skyscale.  It didn't engage them enough to remain in the older maps.  Once a large majority of players got their skyscales, it was difficult for those who didn't to find maps populated enough to do the necessary content for their own skyscales.

As for your raid example, how many of those players do you know that would organize a day outside of their raid schedule to do the content necessary for a mount skin once they have already obtained it?  Unless there are other rewards within that content, I can't imagine players would go back to it.

And, as has been pointed out, there is the gold to gem conversion which allows anyone to obtain items from the gem store.  Granted, this will not necessarily bring in a lot of capital either, but clearly Anet is managing well enough with that business model to allow it to continue.

Would it be cool to have skins obtained from actual content?  For some (perhaps many?), sure, just as having skins available for gems is preferred for other players.  If Anet could find a profitable way to do both, then that might satisfy a large majority of the base.  I'm guessing that their data says otherwise.

 

Do you know of the idea of legacy boardgames?

These are boardgames on which the board changes after every playtrough and can only be played for a fixed amount of times till the story is gone.

 

When these first came around it got asked alot why one would design a boardgame you can only play 9 times. On which the response was, their boardgames people will play 9 times. (9 was for the specific boardgame the designer made, i forget which.)

 

My point here is that people leaving after having gotten it is not nessecarily a bad thing. You have still populated these maps for a while and gave a meaningfull experience.  People will still have engaged with the game more then they would have otherwise.

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1 hour ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

MMORPGs are large scale role playing games which GW2 is what do you mean.

Because it model pretty heavily goes against a lot of the RPG aspects typically found in an RPG. progression, power climb and rewards? Dunno how thats confusing to you unless GW2 is the only MMO you've played.

 

1 hour ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

Also, GW2 currently IS like this because the business model on release almost killed the game. You also have no right to judge other people who are happy playing the game in its current iteration. It is what has worked for the game and its community.

I mean has it worked or has it just kept it barely alive? One common complaint with the new expansion at the moment is it seems like corners are being cut. With the showcase of very miserable looking tier 3 legendaries and constant reuse of animation on abilities for new specs

 

1 hour ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

You suggesting for the game to have an armor chase for stats for it to have a sense of progression for you (vertical progression, basically) tells me that you don't fully grasp how unique GW2 is as an MMO. This game is not about a gear treadmill and that's what I (and others) enjoy about this game. 

Actually no, if you're able to actually read, I say this because if it is to abandon that concept of an armour chase it requires replacing it with another one (I'm not gonna get into why reward incentives for gameplay should exist since if you argue against this point you're lost as to why MMO's one of their fundamental levels are enjoyable) . I'm willing to let that go if GW2 stuck to its initial vision of finding a decent replacement which it used to do sort of with cosmetics. Now I ask what is the reward inventive for playing the game? Its relatively dull living world no one plays? It seems like the only answer is "for the sake of playing it" which is never a concept that bodes well in an MMORPG which is about exploring an expansive world and the rewards it has to offer. Its gameplay has to intertwine with rewards otherwise both have little value. Seeing someone in cool looking armour in gw2 is such a "who cares" moment compared to other MMO's because of this. 

 

1 hour ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

You suggesting for the game to have an armor chase for stats for it to have a sense of progression for you (vertical progression, basically) tells me that you don't fully grasp how unique GW2 is as an MMO. This game is not about a gear treadmill and that's what I (and others) enjoy about this game. 

I suggest watching some comparison videos between MMOs you're familiar with and GW2 as this game really isn't your vertical progression MMO. If you don't like how this game is set-up, then sorry to say but GW2 isn't the game for you.

There are other bigger MMOs that have the progression you are looking for.

Im fully aware going into this game that it wasn't going to have vertical progression, given I like the game on its base level (its very intriguing legendary building system, its mounts, its combat, its visuals) I was hoping it would build on that to make a good MMORPG rather than a big dress up game with the few left being people with far too little time to be invested in something but a big enough wallet to look pretty and stand in lion arch. 

 

Im actually curious to your opinion on what game Guild Wars 2 is, because you avoided that question in that post btw?? What about it is satisfying to you given theres no positive feedback loop present in how it works and is known as the MMO people play for a bit, and then quit for months at a time. 

Edited by Hanako.1827
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7 hours ago, Hanako.1827 said:

Because it model pretty heavily goes against a lot of the RPG aspects typically found in an RPG. progression, power climb and rewards? Dunno how thats confusing to you unless GW2 is the only MMO you've played.

 

I mean has it worked or has it just kept it barely alive? One common complaint with the new expansion at the moment is it seems like corners are being cut. With the showcase of very miserable looking tier 3 legendaries and constant reuse of animation on abilities for new specs

 

Actually no, if you're able to actually read, I say this because if it is to abandon that concept of an armour chase it requires replacing it with another one (I'm not gonna get into why reward incentives for gameplay should exist since if you argue against this point you're lost as to why MMO's one of their fundamental levels are enjoyable) . I'm willing to let that go if GW2 stuck to its initial vision of finding a decent replacement which it used to do sort of with cosmetics. Now I ask what is the reward inventive for playing the game? Its relatively dull living world no one plays? It seems like the only answer is "for the sake of playing it" which is never a concept that bodes well in an MMORPG which is about exploring an expansive world and the rewards it has to offer. Its gameplay has to intertwine with rewards otherwise both have little value. Seeing someone in cool looking armour in gw2 is such a "who cares" moment compared to other MMO's because of this. 

 

Im fully aware going into this game that it wasn't going to have vertical progression, given I like the game on its base level (its very intriguing legendary building system, its mounts, its combat, its visuals) I was hoping it would build on that to make a good MMORPG rather than a big dress up game with the few left being people with far too little time to be invested in something but a big enough wallet to look pretty and stand in lion arch. 

 

Im actually curious to your opinion on what game Guild Wars 2 is, because you avoided that question in that post btw?? What about it is satisfying to you given theres no positive feedback loop present in how it works and is known as the MMO people play for a bit, and then quit for months at a time. 


Ive played a lot of mmos. Right now I play GW2 and FFXIV a lot. 
 

I didnt avoid the question of what I think GW2 is, you’re just refusing to acknowledge it. Ill say it again. Guild Wars 2 is an MMORPG that’s different from yout typical gear treadmill mmo that you so desperately want it to be. 
 

This game has reward incentives in the form of map currency and gold. You play living world episodes for the story and masteries, and you grind events on its maps for map currency. If you dont like that, then let me repeat. This game is not for you. Note that this isn’t an attack on your character. Im simply saying that there might be other better games for you out there. 

If you really want gear progression, are you already on full legendaries? Do you have maxed out masteries? If you don’t, then that’s something you can do. If you don’t wanna bother because legendaries and masteries are only for convenience, then again: this game is not for you. 

Nothing personal.

Edited by HowlKamui.5120
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On 9/15/2021 at 10:15 PM, Hanako.1827 said:

What I have always liked about MMO's is seeing something someone has got and thinking "kitten I want that" and finding out they had to do a hard trial and tribulation to earn it only invigorates a positive feedback loop within me to play, learn, get better and earn it, this incentive BARELY exists within Guild Wars 2.

This is exactly what happened with me and GWAMM. I saw someone had a cool title and went about figuring out how to get it. I think - on and off - it took me about 5ish years to get it because of the sheer grind and difficulty of some of those titles.

I've not seen a single thing like that in gw2. Anything that looks decent can be bought with gold (including wvw ticks and raids if you're that desperate). There's nothing for me to sink my teeth into, and it's leaving me wanting. The worst part is I know EoD will be more fluff that I can breeze through with hardly any meat.

I've mentioned this to newer players and they try to "helpfully" suggest things that I "might not have done" when the likelihood is I've done it on at least 9 different characters already just because it's given me something to fill the time.

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1 hour ago, Miss Lana.5276 said:

 Anything that looks decent can be bought with gold (including wvw ticks and raids if you're that desperate). There's nothing for me to sink my teeth into, and it's leaving me wanting. 

I'm not sure that's true, but even if it is, there's a difference between "can be bought with gold" and "has to be bought with gold". I'm sitting on enough gold to buy up each of the different legendaries on the TP but I'm not going to. If I want another legendary, then I will earn it.

Which I guess is the point of this thread. If it was possible to earn some different mount skins in game (other than the warclaw), people would likely value those skins more than the ones for sale in the gem store.

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Personally I am fine with the way it is now. Yes, the skins are only available on the store, but you can grind for them in the game, so it ends up the same. I farmed a lot to be able to buy some of the 2k skins, and it definitely felt good when I got them. 🙂

I understand your desire and respect your arguments, but I personally don't think any of this is necessary. 

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6 hours ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

I didnt avoid the question of what I think GW2 is, you’re just refusing to acknowledge it. Ill say it again. Guild Wars 2 is an MMORPG that’s different from yout typical gear treadmill mmo that you so desperately want it to be. 

You understand you're avoiding my question again right? What kind of MMO is guild wars 2, what is its positive feedback loop. Im not asking what it isn't.

 

6 hours ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

This game has reward incentives in the form of map currency and gold. You play living world episodes for the story and masteries, and you grind events on its maps for map currency. If you dont like that, then let me repeat. This game is not for you. Note that this isn’t an attack on your character. Im simply saying that there might be other better games for you out there. 

I will never take people seriously when their response of people having an issue with a game on its forum is "this game just isn't for you, why are you complaining?", especially when the request is just wanting a few mount skins to be earned in game. Again gold has intrinsically little value or form of pristiness when its intertwined with gems/real life money.

If a "reward" like currency is indistinguishable from people real life money then it contributes to the ever growing issue of guild wars 2, which is cool looking items are not impressive to see as it is in other MMO's which to me is just an overall bad. The "go play other games" argument is such a flawed and childish one and contributes to people wanting to leave the game knowing it has such a depressing community that supports what is generally considered bad practice in MMORPG's. The "massively multiplayer" part of MMORPG's isn't really bolstered in guild wars 2 when its content with having less people that spend more money and don't really venture out into the world because theres little reason to. 

 

Edited by Hanako.1827
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6 hours ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

If you really want gear progression, are you already on full legendaries? Do you have maxed out masteries? If you don’t, then that’s something you can do. If you don’t wanna bother because legendaries and masteries are only for convenience, then again: this game is not for you. 

Lol what a joke of a response. I have all the legendaries I want to own from both tier 1 and 2 and the masteries I find worth having. Also its actually some of the VERY few things I can do buddy lol, thats the point im making. 

Edited by Hanako.1827
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On 9/15/2021 at 6:41 PM, Hanako.1827 said:

Its not that I want a cashless route, its that I want a better game in general, I have sod all to do because reward incentives are so miniscule.

Your whole chain of argument in this thread builds on the assumption that players are motivated into playing by chasing rewards, and that rewards are the main (or even only) incentive that makes people play this came. It's an easy assumption to make, since generations of computer rpgs have conditioned us into looking at the rewards first, gameplay second, and at worst grind endlessly for rewards long past the point of where the gameplay stops being fun.

 

GW2 is a different beast in a well-grown market. This game's reward scheme for the most part does not rely on motivating players into playing specific content, nor does it offer a lot of account-bound sparkles locked behind "high challenge". Instead, most shinies are tradeable, so you are spared the frustration of grinding content long past the point of enjoyment just because you aren't lucky enough to drop the loot you desire. Incidentally, this is also one of the reasons why raids have no extraordinary rewards (although you could argue that the rate at which you can gain ascended equipment in them already is way above average). You can play them if you enjoy that kind of content, but get comparable rewards through other parts of the game if raiding isn't your cup of tea.

 

GW2 has carved its niche in the MMORPG market to cater to the players that value gameplay over rewards. I play this game because I can play whatever catches my fancy that day without seriously disadvantaging me in working towards whatever shiny has caught my fancy. The game rewards all of the time I invest into actually playing it, rather than dictating what I need to play to get to the shinies.

Your definition of a "better game" seems to be one that gates rewards very rigorously, so you have to play (and possibly replay over and over if it's a rng drop rather than a one-and-done collection) whatever content ANet has decided to use as gatekeeper. This clashes horribly with a large part of the game's playerbase that came here precisely to get away from such wide-spread loot-gating and (artificial) prestige attached to arbitrary pieces of loot.

I wouldn't mind more outfits, gliders, mount skins, whatever as in-game rewards, but only if they are tradeable so everybody has a shot at getting them, even if the content they are attached to doesn't appeal to them. Having been on the wrong side of rng too often in other games, I think we have more than enough grind-only skins already. There really is no need to force the "grind or pay" mentality any stronger.

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2 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

but only if they are tradeable so everybody has a shot at getting them

I mean you have a shot of getting anything in any MMO. You just don't like the shot you'd potentially have to take so as a result everything has to be streamlined. 

Edited by Hanako.1827
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Unfortunately, that is what modern gaming has (d)evolved to.

 

Why give players who achieve XYZ a reward when you can just sell that reward for money? 

 

I am sure there are plenty of game designer at arenanet who rather have the players earn rewards instead of buying it. But a corporation just wants to make as much money as possible, so that is not going to happen.

 

Don't forget that, as time goes by, more and more gamers will never have played an online game without microtransactions.

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