Thief gets so much hate that's is honestly frightening.

[saerni.2584]

6 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Naturally since they can't see them, they can't target them and most of the time they can't de-stealth them.

What do you expect them to do? spam all  their useful skills and hope they manage to wing the invisible player? 
Hardly, with the mobility thieves get access to on top of stealth it's virtually effortless to avoid that kind of thing and you just screw yourself over.
 

Not what I said. Reread what I wrote.

[Teratus.2859]

12 minutes ago, saerni.2584 said:

Not what I said. Reread what I wrote.

"I also think too many people think "wait for them to naturally come out of stealth" should be a viable tactic"

That's what I was responding to specifically in your post because for most builds that is literally all they can do.

What else do you expect them to do?
I can put down traps sure.. if i'm playing a class that has them.
I can spam AoE skills and waste them.. not doing that.
Can use defensive skills.. and waste them too.

I could spam reveal skills to de-stealth the thief.. oh wait no I can't because I either the thief expects them and evades it, or I don't have any at all, or they require an active target to use them and a stealthed thief cannot be actively targeted.
And if I do reveal them they either port away to stall out the tiny duration of reveal or they just remove it, making the only anti-stealth mechanic in the game utterly useless! against stealth.
 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Teratus.2859

[Psycoprophet.8107]

On 10/15/2021 at 9:39 AM, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Well, yes, thief does suffer in PvE because of it's design choices. While it annoys me that it has never really had a meta PvE spec I can overlook that because I enjoy what the class does offer more than I miss what it lacks. 

See the parts of your post I underlined. You're not actually complaining about the initiation of combat, you're complaining about the resolution of combat and the difference in how thieves experience that resolution to everyone else. The only reason to complain about this is if you have the underlying assumption that you deserved the kill when the thief got away - no, you clearly didn't deserve the kill because you didn't do what was necessary to secure it, if you did then the thief would be dead at your feet.

I don't need thief to be more of a scrapper as I can already do that with two of my builds, both of which are boon builds by the way. The main problem with 90% of the thief playerbase is that they are stuck in the PvE DPS mentality or the PvP decap mentality so they limit their build choices for no particularly good reason. There is also the issue is that if a build is good against other classes it likely suffers vs other thieves depending on whether or not it uses shadow arts, if you're only planning on making one build for your thief then SA D/P daredevil simply gives you the most utility in a single build but because everyone and their dog runs that build it means that it is easily countered and forced off by experienced players. WvW is a whole new ball game if you're willing to think outside the box a bit and invest in the class heavily through legendary armor and multiple build templates, but pretty much the only people that go through with that are dedicated thief mains, and that's a pretty small group.

See the part of your post I bolded. The other day, I went to an upgraded camp and fought a soulbeast inside the camp for over 5 minutes after killing 2-3 people just outside the camp. The soulbeast repeatedly kited out when on low health using the CC from the camp guards to stop me from following, and eventually the people I killed came back with a couple others and the 5-6 of them killed me by clouding and denying me cover through LoS while two soulbeasts killed me from a distance. I then get a whisper telling me I'd been reported by someone in that group (I presume the ranger I was fighting in the camp), with no reason or explanation why. I didn't abuse OOC at all during the fight, only dropping combat once because the ranger decided to kite at the same time I did. If I was playing a soulbeast or a holosmith nobody would have even bothered whispering me after that fight, let alone report me for apparently not dying fast enough. That is the kind of hate that the OP is talking about and that is indirectly referenced in your comments; people tend to blow a vein when a thief kills you or refuses to die and provide their lootbag on command, when other classes doing the same thing wouldn't have made those same players bat an eye. 

This is just plain wrong. The conclusion that thief level stealth and mobility is OP does not follow from your argument, because again, that's not what you're actually talking about. I have no issue with another class being as fast as a thief or having as much stealth as a thief when considered in a vacuum, but what you're talking about is adding thief level mobility and stealth to another profession on top of what it already has. Of course it would be OP if you were fast and stealthy as a thief but durable and sustainable as a scrapper, but that doesn't prove that thief level mobility and stealth is OP on it's own.  

Ur last paragraph is the point I was trying to make to the guy.

[itspomf.9523]

21 hours ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

I think a lot of this debate centers around different win conditions.

If the win condition is getting a kill, then yes, killing a decent thief isn't easy.  At the same time, skill and numbers being equal, thieves generally have less kill-power than most DPS/dueling builds.  To secure a kill, they generally have to expend more resources and play more skillfully than their opponent.  ("Thief is a high skill floor/infinite skill ceiling class.")  Stealth and mobility don't kill anything.  They just help avoid being killed.  ("Thieves excel at running from fights.")  If the thief is running away, he or she isn't killing you either.  If they reset, you usually, but not always, have a chance to reset as well.

If the win condition is defending/capturing an objective, thieves are at a decided disadvantage since stealth prevents capture, they're not tanky or sustainy enough to camp nodes, and they lack mass-target AOE pressure, so they have no choice but to employ a single target, hit-and-run, in-and-out, bail if things go wrong playstyle.

What we're left with is thieves excel at precisely one aspect of one win condition--not dying.  They aren't particularly great at securing kills (others do it better with less effort).  They aren't very useful for pursuing objectives.  ("Thief is not a zerg class.")  So what people are really complaining about, objectively, is their subjective annoyance with not being able to kill the thief, while ignoring the fact that avoiding death is the one and only thing thief does well.

 

Thank you.  This summarizes everything I've felt in the 9 years or so of playing GW2.

 

Thief is good at getting in and out of fights, but on its own, very poor at anything more than mop-up, and I say this is a largely solo PvE player.  My singular experience with WvW was abysmal and largely consisted of watching myself get bursted down by whatever wandering soulbeast or the like spotted me, and the one time I did encounter a necromancer on even footing, it still took two other players to finish the guy off while I dumped everything I had into the guy.  And please, don't ask about the time I tried to fight a mesmer and ended up defeated by their own clones (though now I know how those flame legion felt).

 

Thief's biggest problem, as someone who has played since the head-start release, is that it lacks in active defenses but excels in antagonizing foes by redefining the terms of combat.  This is fine in PvE (and one of the few ways to stay alive), but very obviously frustrates human players who very clearly aren't another dumb NPC mob.  The same as any enemy -- human or monster -- is a massive annoyance when you can't see or hit the thing (looking at you, smokescales and itzel).

 

The saddest part, however, is that the community is largely at fault for pushing us into the "decap" and "+1" roles by asking for nerfs because they simply refuse to adapt to different methods of combat.  Because until Heart of Thorns, no one else save a mesmer could enable (or mitigate) large-scale stealth or employ it with any rapidity -- even shortbow ranger.  Equally was it not until Path of Fire that anyone else could match or even exceed ranger's longbow, another massive point of contention.

 

In short, thief has edged into other niches through elites, but each time it does, it gets decried as OP, unfair, or no fun to fight against, despite the fact that it has to work harder, specialize more aggressively, and just plain play more defensively to make up the differences.

[saerni.2584]

9 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

"I also think too many people think "wait for them to naturally come out of stealth" should be a viable tactic"

That's what I was responding to specifically in your post because for most builds that is literally all they can do.

What else do you expect them to do?
I can put down traps sure.. if i'm playing a class that has them.
I can spam AoE skills and waste them.. not doing that.
Can use defensive skills.. and waste them too.

I could spam reveal skills to de-stealth the thief.. oh wait no I can't because I either the thief expects them and evades it, or I don't have any at all, or they require an active target to use them and a stealthed thief cannot be actively targeted.
And if I do reveal them they either port away to stall out the tiny duration of reveal or they just remove it, making the only anti-stealth mechanic in the game utterly useless! against stealth.
 

 
The rest of what I wrote, which you are ignoring. 
 

"For example, ranged capabilities are a good way to put pressure on someone who pops out of stealth. Not having ranged options you need to have teleports ready to engage. If you are fighting someone with high damage spikes from stealth then you need to focus on staying mobile and using your mobility to kite when they try to spike you." 

 

So what you are not paying attention to are examples of tactics other than "just stand there" that are available to everyone. Sure, not everyone has ranged or teleports or mobility. But in that case they are running something completely deficient for a PvP matchup. You can't balance by looking to builds that can't be mobile/apply pressure at range. 
 

Every profession has options that work when fighting a Thief. Stealth isn't invulnerability, it is a temporary pause in combat which gives both parties the chance to reposition, resustain, and get their cooldowns back. 

[Keitaro Dragonheart.9047]

3 hours ago, fluffdragon.1523 said:

In short, thief has edged into other niches through elites, but each time it does, it gets decried as OP, unfair, or no fun to fight against, despite the fact that it has to work harder, specialize more aggressively, and just plain play more defensively to make up the differences.

And you know what's even more sad? The people crying for nerfs to thief know this. They just don't care. They're selfish, only interested in improving their own game experience, to the detriment of thief players. If they actually cared about game balance, like the claim to (we all know that's a lie), then they'd be looking more at Scourge and Firebrand, which are both completely busted.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Keitaro Dragonheart.9047

[Tails.9372]

9 hours ago, Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said:

And you know what's even more sad? The people crying for nerfs to thief know this.

No, that's not sad. It's pathetic. The sad part is that A-Net actually listens and agrees with them. Take P/P as an example:

A thief player says: "I don't like how 3 is the only thing worth using on the set, the rest is either redundant or creates a conflict of interest when it comes to the shared resource. The set is supposed to be used for high pressure run n gun gameplay but it doesn't even have any mobility skills, please give it a proper rework."

A non thief player says either one of these two things: "It's spammy and weak and thus boring to fight against so please nerf it out of existence so that I don't have to deal with it anymore." or "Unload spam, I feel like I have no counterplay because I don't want to make the effort to learn how to use the defensive options the game is providing me with. A-Net plz save me by nerfing it into the ground."

And A-Net pretty much always sides with non thieves on these issues cause I guess giving in to popular demand is easier than actually solving the underlying problems which for this example would be the weapon set not being able to put up a proper fight and players not knowing how to use their defensive tools.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Teratus.2859]

10 hours ago, saerni.2584 said:

 
The rest of what I wrote, which you are ignoring. 
 

"For example, ranged capabilities are a good way to put pressure on someone who pops out of stealth. Not having ranged options you need to have teleports ready to engage. If you are fighting someone with high damage spikes from stealth then you need to focus on staying mobile and using your mobility to kite when they try to spike you." 

 

So what you are not paying attention to are examples of tactics other than "just stand there" that are available to everyone. Sure, not everyone has ranged or teleports or mobility. But in that case they are running something completely deficient for a PvP matchup. You can't balance by looking to builds that can't be mobile/apply pressure at range. 
 

Every profession has options that work when fighting a Thief. Stealth isn't invulnerability, it is a temporary pause in combat which gives both parties the chance to reposition, resustain, and get their cooldowns back. 

Do tell how "ranged" skills that require an active target (which is almost all of them) are useful against a player you can't see or target because they are stealthed.

I'll agree that they are useful against a non stealthed thief who is away from you but once that thief goes invisible and if you don't have a channel skill in effect while that happens the vast majority of your ranged skills are useless.
Unless they're AoE skills but then those tend to have long CD and are wasted trying to just guess where the thief is and are better used on yourself as a damage shield or way to deter the thief from attacking for a few seconds, but even then the thief can just yank you out of it with a pull so not always that useful.

And no matter how much mobility you put into your build the thief is going to have more, so unless you get the chance to mount up and run when the thief resets the fight, the thief is going to stop you running from them.

And on a second note, swapping to some ranged weapons on some classes is a bad idea as it's basically an open invitation for the thief to get up close and stab you while you can't really get an attack off.
This is a like a huge freebie for the thief to smack you around while your weapon swap is on CD.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Teratus.2859

[Skada.1362]

The Thief class is not oppressive, obnoxious, overpowered and broken in a WVW small scale/roaming setting at all you guyzzz, thief players told me.

 

Why are there way more thieves, especially SA d/p Daredevils, than any other "roaming build/class" running around the borders? for kittening years? Why are most of EUs "roaming/ganker guilds" mostly filled with Daredevils? Hmmmz... could it be because it's such an incredibly forgiving, safe yet effective (op af) build? Could it be that fighting builds like this is incredibly infuriating and unfun for most people? HMMMMMM

[Dadnir.5038]

15 minutes ago, Skada.1362 said:

The Thief class is not oppressive, obnoxious, overpowered and broken in a WVW small scale/roaming setting at all you guyzzz, thief players told me.

Why are there way more thieves, especially SA d/p Daredevils, than any other "roaming build/class" running around the borders? for kittening years? Why are most of EUs "roaming/ganker guilds" mostly filled with Daredevils? Hmmmz... could it be because it's such an incredibly forgiving, safe yet effective (op af) build? Could it be that fighting builds like this is incredibly infuriating and unfun for most people? HMMMMMM

The real answer to your questions is probably because the profession have a thematic and tools that fulfill the fantasy of a certain category of players that despise group fight and enjoy taking down isolated foes.

The main reason there is hate against thief is that their design favour a gameplay that doesn't necessarily create enjoyable fights for the "hater". In case of the thief, stealth is the main tool that generate this kind of hate. In case of the necromancer it will be it's way to deal with incoming damage and it's ability to convert boons. In case of the mirage it was it's ability to avoid hits... etc.

No profession is free from the hate generated by the many game mechanisms of GW2. Sometime the devs bend under the pressure and nerf things to oblivion and sometime, they don't because it touch to mechanisms that form the foundation of the whole profession (which is the case for thief's stealth or the necromancer's shroud).

[Tails.9372]

50 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

mechanisms that form the foundation of the whole profession (which is the case for thief's stealth

And that's not even true, it's just an assumption the game makes about thief builds in general regardless whether or not they actually even have synergy with it.

It's also something that can easily be addressed by putting more emphasis on the specializations. If damage, stealth and sustain would mostly come from the specialisations the player chooses then balancing around it would be a lot easier as it then would force those who want to primarily focus on stealth to take significant hits in other areas but also allow for "dualist" type builds with decent sustain and offensive without being burdened by "but stealth".

[ASP.8093]

1 hour ago, Skada.1362 said:

The Thief class is not oppressive, obnoxious, overpowered and broken in a WVW small scale/roaming setting at all you guyzzz, thief players told me.

 

Why are there way more thieves, especially SA d/p Daredevils, than any other "roaming build/class" running around the borders? for kittening years? Why are most of EUs "roaming/ganker guilds" mostly filled with Daredevils? Hmmmz... could it be because it's such an incredibly forgiving, safe yet effective (op af) build? Could it be that fighting builds like this is incredibly infuriating and unfun for most people? HMMMMMM

Looking at the forums, I'm convinced that fighting literally anything other than a skill-clicker doing their best Veteran Guard roleplay is "incredibly infuriating and unfun for most people."

[Keitaro Dragonheart.9047]

4 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

No, that's not sad. It's pathetic. The sad part is that A-Net actually listens and agrees with them. Take P/P as an example:

A thief player says: "I don't like how 3 is the only thing worth using on the set, the rest is either redundant or creates a conflict of interest when it comes to the shared resource. The set is supposed to be used for high pressure run n gun gameplay but it doesn't even have any mobility skills, please give it a proper rework."

A non thief player says either one of these two things: "It's spammy and weak and thus boring to fight against so please nerf it out of existence so that I don't have to deal with it anymore." or "Unload spam, I feel like I have no counterplay because I don't want to make the effort to learn how to use the defensive options the game is providing me with. A-Net plz save me by nerfing it into the ground."

And A-Net pretty much always sides with non thieves on these issues cause I guess giving in to popular demand is easier than actually solving the underlying problems which for this example would be the weapon set not being able to put up a proper fight and players not knowing how to use their defensive tools.

Yeah, you're definitely right. And until ANet stops listening to the whiners, thief will continually get nerfed. And because Anet caters to these players, they know they can get what they want if they whine loud enough. And let's be honest, most of the "nerf thief" threads are nothing more than whining.

They don't want to listen to the actual thief players, telling them exactly how to counter us, they'd rather whine until the thing they don't like gets gutted.

I guess rolling your face across the keyboard for easy wins is much more appealing than putting in actual effort. As someone whose been gaming since the 90s, players like these are exactly why games have been dumbed down so much.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Keitaro Dragonheart.9047

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

GW2 is the only game I have ever played where the Rogue class gets increased mobility while in stealth, many methods with which to disengage and a lot of CC to boot. Stealth is usually offset by lower mobility. 

 

It's just not fun to be CCd, chain immobed, have your boons ripped and have almost three dozen condition stacks placed on you from stealth in an instant.

 

You are going to die if you;

If you're somewhat new to the game.

Have a triple digit ping.

If you're playing a support build.

If you don't have stability.

If you don't have a lot of condi cleanses.

If you do not have hotkeys/mouse mapped for your skills.

If you're not paying complete attention at all times when running across the map.

 

For a lot of people, this is extremely difficult and frustrating to play against. 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

4 hours ago, Skada.1362 said:

The Thief class is not oppressive, obnoxious, overpowered and broken in a WVW small scale/roaming setting at all you guyzzz, thief players told me.

 

Why are there way more thieves, especially SA d/p Daredevils, than any other "roaming build/class" running around the borders? for kittening years? Why are most of EUs "roaming/ganker guilds" mostly filled with Daredevils? Hmmmz... could it be because it's such an incredibly forgiving, safe yet effective (op af) build? Could it be that fighting builds like this is incredibly infuriating and unfun for most people? HMMMMMM

U serious? Could it be because thief mains are using their class in the role it's best at....roaming? Ur post is ridiculous at best wow, again THIS game attracts some special players holly. could it also be that theif mains dont have a great zerg build option aswell so they stick to what their fav class is good at......roaming? 

Lastly maybe theif mains picked a rogue archetype because they like that playstyle......which lends to roaming. Maybe these are the reasons why their are a lot of DD roaming hmmm, this reasons seem more plausible than twisting it to ur bias bs regarding thief being OP, forgiving and such. Thief has thee most threads in its section from players who recently swapped to thief or new players who picked thief asking for advice on how not to get stomped by every opponent they meet as their having trouble surviving any engagement let alone winning fights. U guys see a thief doing its thing and because u see them using ACTIVE damage avoidance effectively get all annoyed while u guys use ur blocks, dodges, barriers, invulnerable skills etc etc and whine thief's to forgiving lmao what a joke. Seems the only players left in this game are bad whiny players that instead of learning to fight classes properly come here and try and complain hoping that 1- class will be nerfed so their easy kills for them and 2- class will be changed to THEIR prefered way so THEY are are not annoyed fighting them cuz the games class design should revolve around them. Quit fing whining and learn to play the game instead, just a tip.

[BobbyT.7192]

15 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

You are going to die if you;

If you're somewhat new to the game.

Have a triple digit ping.

If you're playing a support build.

If you don't have stability.

If you don't have a lot of condi cleanses.

If you do not have hotkeys/mouse mapped for your skills.

If you're not paying complete attention at all times when running across the map.

 

For a lot of people, this is extremely difficult and frustrating to play against. 

Players dying with these problem, will die from alot of builds out there, not just thieves and stealth.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

Just now, BobbyT.7192 said:

Players dying with these problem, will die from alot of builds out there, not just thieves and stealth.

And they will at least see it coming from those other builds. They can understand they got outplayed. Being burst from stealth is extremely disheartening for people.

 

Like, imagine you are getting into WvW after playing a few months and you keep running into thieves who have 5-10 years of experience up their sleeves. They have literally zero chance to even understand what is happening. 

 

Learning counterplay to half decent thieves is a trial of frustration that will just put people off the game mode for good and have them lining up at the forum to complain about it. 

 

I'm just not twitch reflex fast enough to deal with them, so I have to build tanky. Usually I end up fighting to a stalemate because they can't kill me and they can disengage before I can kill them. Mostly they just leave. Which is just a frustrating waste of time for both of us.

[kash.9213]

2 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

GW2 is the only game I have ever played where the Rogue class gets increased mobility while in stealth, many methods with which to disengage and a lot of CC to boot. Stealth is usually offset by lower mobility. 

 

It's just not fun to be CCd, chain immobed, have your boons ripped and have almost three dozen condition stacks placed on you from stealth in an instant.

 

You are going to die if you;

If you're somewhat new to the game.

Have a triple digit ping.

If you're playing a support build.

If you don't have stability.

If you don't have a lot of condi cleanses.

If you do not have hotkeys/mouse mapped for your skills.

If you're not paying complete attention at all times when running across the map.

 

For a lot of people, this is extremely difficult and frustrating to play against. 

Increased speed in Stealth feels overdone, but I would like increased speed or another Swiftness option within traits somewhere, like maybe increased speed delayed until 4 sec after coming out of stealth for about 4 sec or something for map travel. 

There are a few ways to disengage if you build and kit for it, and then you have to maintain blinking in and out or setting up the bomb. Otherwise, apart from Stealth, people should be able to keep up or lockdown if they build for it. 

I think Jungle and others had suggestions for regulating Stealth stacking with the problematic trait/kit combos and that seemed realistic with the current game build.

I think something should replace Stealth on Dodge with Rifle and Stealth on Heal. They're annoying to use anyway but they do kick off a lot in Stealth and post Stealth. I'd rather have a more reasonably priced Infiltrators Arrow again with maybe a short arrow reload duration or something and have some protection/slower crouch movement for Kneel stance to Stealth from Snipers Cover and replace Shadow Meld with something that boosts Kneel/Crouch.

Edited October 17, 2021 by kash.9213

[Dawdler.8521]

17 hours ago, Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said:

And you know what's even more sad? The people crying for nerfs to thief know this. They just don't care. They're selfish, only interested in improving their own game experience, to the detriment of thief players. If they actually cared about game balance, like the claim to (we all know that's a lie), then they'd be looking more at Scourge and Firebrand, which are both completely busted.

About as sad as so many choosing to play thief for obvious reasons yet will never admit playing their strengths. Because of course they picked the extra skillful class, unlike those other plebs.

Fun thing happened not many days ago. I got whispered and taunted by a stealthing jumping bean of a thief because I "needed to call for help to kill him" when I ran to north camp to defend.

I had been commander tagged for the past 30 minutes and didnt say a peep ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited October 17, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[Psycoprophet.8107]

3 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

And they will at least see it coming from those other builds. They can understand they got outplayed. Being burst from stealth is extremely disheartening for people.

 

Like, imagine you are getting into WvW after playing a few months and you keep running into thieves who have 5-10 years of experience up their sleeves. They have literally zero chance to even understand what is happening. 

 

Learning counterplay to half decent thieves is a trial of frustration that will just put people off the game mode for good and have them lining up at the forum to complain about it. 

 

I'm just not twitch reflex fast enough to deal with them, so I have to build tanky. Usually I end up fighting to a stalemate because they can't kill me and they can disengage before I can kill them. Mostly they just leave. Which is just a frustrating waste of time for both of us.

Hmm so thieves have to build a certain way to survive and be effective leading to the situations u described but u aswell has had to build a certain way leading to the situation u described, a stale mate that was a frustrating waste of time for the both of u. So whose the problem? Should the thief lose mobility/disengage potential and stealth access so the get killed easy since that's their defense or should ur class not be able to build soo defensively to the point a glassy burst spec can't hope to burst u down even if they outplay u? Tough questions.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Keitaro Dragonheart.9047]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

About as sad as so many choosing to play thief for obvious reasons yet will never admit playing their strengths. Because of course they picked the extra skillful class, unlike those other plebs.

Fun thing happened not many days ago. I got whispered and taunted by a stealthing jumping bean of a thief because I "needed to call for help to kill him" when I ran to north camp to defend.

I had been commander tagged for the past 30 minutes and didnt say a peep ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Oh yes, because every thief is in GW2 is a jerk, and nobody from any other class trash talks either. Also, I love that little "extra skillful class" jab. You mean like Scourge, Minion Necro, and Firebrand? Oh yes, because those require so much skill to play well. 🙄

[ASP.8093]

6 hours ago, Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said:

They don't want to listen to the actual thief players, telling them exactly how to counter us, they'd rather whine until the thing they don't like gets gutted.

In fairness, it's really hard to have this conversation when half the "actual thief players" are doing a big song and dance about how the class is a poor little overnerfed bean that couldn't kill a fly, just a sad little guy, plz mister it's my birthday, you wouldn't hit a little guy on his birthday.

Lots of people love hyperbole and they almost constantly get mad that any other class/build can do anything at all. No one is immune.

 

5 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

You are going to die if you;

If you're somewhat new to the game.

Have a triple digit ping.

If you're playing a support build.

If you don't have stability.

If you don't have a lot of condi cleanses.

If you do not have hotkeys/mouse mapped for your skills.

If you're not paying complete attention at all times when running across the map.

Ah, the zergling's lament.

If you're playing a support build you can just spam your support abilities and walk on out of almost any 1v1. You ever seen people chase a Healbrand or Minstrel Scrapper? Takes forever to bring one down.

You don't need Stability against thieves, their CC is mostly short dazes; at worst you'll use up your stun break on Binding Shadow or Basi Venom.

Triple-digit ping + no hot keys mapped means you are running back to the fight just to be rally bait when you get there. ;_;

Also, ride your dang Warclaw.

[MrForz.1953]

1 hour ago, Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said:

Oh yes, because every thief is in GW2 is a jerk, and nobody from any other class trash talks either. Also, I love that little "extra skillful class" jab. You mean like Scourge, Minion Necro, and Firebrand? Oh yes, because those require so much skill to play well. 🙄

He didn't say that Thief was a no-skill class but one that is generally perceived as the pinnacle of high level gameplay by some of its players to the point that one would almost mentally mast- stimulate oneself at the idea, a little bit like Engineer and Elementalist. And while it's not exactly true, mechanically at least, it's often brought up to look down upon others, and as an excuse to pass as victims at times.

 

4 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

In fairness, it's really hard to have this conversation when half the "actual thief players" are doing a big song and dance about how the class is a poor little overnerfed bean that couldn't kill a fly, just a sad little guy, plz mister it's my birthday, you wouldn't hit a little guy on his birthday.

Lots of people love hyperbole and they almost constantly get mad that any other class/build can do anything at all. No one is immune.

That's about right, all of it.

Edited October 17, 2021 by MrForz.1953

[Tails.9372]

1 hour ago, ASP.8093 said:

In fairness, it's really hard to have this conversation when half the "actual thief players" are doing a big song and dance about how the class is a poor little overnerfed bean that couldn't kill a fly

Like it or not but in some aspects it objectively is. There is a reason as for why P/P is such a meme set for over half a decade now. The last change specifically aimed at the set was a nerf neither A-Net nor the people who were in favor of it could actually justify. A-Net didn't even made an attempt to and the people who liked it just argued "it was bad anyway so it's good that they killed it off".

1 hour ago, ASP.8093 said:

Lots of people love hyperbole and they almost constantly get mad that any other class/build can do anything at all.

But here is the difference: they don't make up nonsensical complains in the hope that whatever they don't like to play against gets nerfed into oblivion akin to how other classes do it to thief. Reflects shut down certain thief builds pretty effectively but you don't see the people who play these builds going on and on about how projectile reflection should be removed from the game just because they find it inconvenient to play against. 

When Harbinger pistol got revealed to have ricocheting bullets people who play a pistol based thief build didn't ask for it to be removed from them but merely reiterated that they wanted their old trait back because it's ultimately not about the other classes so your criticism here is a hyperbole in and of itself.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Keitaro Dragonheart.9047]

1 hour ago, ASP.8093 said:

In fairness, it's really hard to have this conversation when half the "actual thief players" are doing a big song and dance about how the class is a poor little overnerfed bean that couldn't kill a fly, just a sad little guy, plz mister it's my birthday, you wouldn't hit a little guy on his birthday.

Lots of people love hyperbole and they almost constantly get mad that any other class/build can do anything at all. No one is immune.

And half the conversation from non-thief players, one who has no experience with the game would think Thief is some overpowered, omnipotent invisible deity that can delete anyone, at anytime, anywhere without ever being seen at all. If it was so oppressive and overpowered as the thief QQers seemed to believe, it wouldn't be one of the least played classes in the game.

We had some non-stealth dueling builds, and guess what happened? Non-thieves cried to Anet and got them nerfed. So when we went back to stealth, ya'll started crying about stealth again.

Hit-and-run, +1, roaming and decap is all thief has. And players like you are working hard to have stealth nerfed so you can have an easy loot bag.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Keitaro Dragonheart.9047