Thief gets so much hate that's is honestly frightening.

[Graeaw.6329]

8 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

GW2 is the only game I have ever played where the Rogue class gets increased mobility while in stealth, many methods with which to disengage and a lot of CC to boot. Stealth is usually offset by lower mobility. 

 

It's just not fun to be CCd, chain immobed, have your boons ripped and have almost three dozen condition stacks placed on you from stealth in an instant.

 

You are going to die if you;

If you're somewhat new to the game.

Have a triple digit ping.

If you're playing a support build.

If you don't have stability.

If you don't have a lot of condi cleanses.

If you do not have hotkeys/mouse mapped for your skills.

If you're not paying complete attention at all times when running across the map.

 

For a lot of people, this is extremely difficult and frustrating to play against. 

Well isn't that funny, in WoW you could be in Stealth which is not only not slowing you down, but actually makes you faster than normal movements speed.
You have a targeted shadowstep, useable in stealth
On Subtlety specialisation your "backstab" has a 30 yard teleport to target funtcion
You can Cheap Shot - Kidney Shot somebody from stealth for a whopping 10-11 seconds of chain Stun
Have I told you about Crippling and Wounds poisons? a slow and a %healing reduction that you apply just by attacking 🙂

But sure go ahead and tell us your tales of all the great MMO-s you've experienced where the Rogue class is so much worse in terms of stealth 🙃

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

18 minutes ago, Graeaw.6329 said:

Well isn't that funny, in WoW you could be in Stealth which is not only not slowing you down, but actually makes you faster than normal movements speed.
You have a targeted shadowstep, useable in stealth
On Subtlety specialisation your "backstab" has a 30 yard teleport to target funtcion
You can Cheap Shot - Kidney Shot somebody from stealth for a whopping 10-11 seconds of chain Stun
Have I told you about Crippling and Wounds poisons? a slow and a %healing reduction that you apply just by attacking 🙂

But sure go ahead and tell us your tales of all the great MMO-s you've experienced where the Rogue class is so much worse in terms of stealth 🙃

 

On Point! 😄

 

But all that is not the issue, it wouldn't be if you could do it in GW2 aswell. What people are complaining about in my opinion is just the ability to disengage through stealth, which in WOW is/was limited to vanish with a 2min CD (at the point i did know about the game). And to some degree at least in PvP or WvW i can understand this, but because most of the same people mentioned above can't express the exact reason what is the issue cleary and give constructive ideas on how to fix it, they rather want to get rid of stealth entirely.

 

Maybe increasing the revealed debuff, shorten the duration of stacking abilities like shadow refuge, make smokefield blasts unstackable f.e. 

 

Those are not my suggestions but if these kind of ideas would be the demands of the anti-thiefs i could see a point in there, but when i see sentences like stealth needs to be removed or stuff like this i can't take them seriously. this is not about balancing but out of some self-proclaimed entitlement that got denied in their last encounter

Edited October 17, 2021 by Felices Bladewing.3914
clearification

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

1 hour ago, Graeaw.6329 said:

...But sure go ahead and tell us your tales of all the great MMO-s you've experienced where the Rogue class is so much worse in terms of stealth 🙃

I said game, not MMO.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

6 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Hmm so thieves have to build a certain way to survive and be effective leading to the situations u described but u aswell has had to build a certain way leading to the situation u described, a stale mate that was a frustrating waste of time for the both of u. So whose the problem? Should the thief lose mobility/disengage potential and stealth access so the get killed easy since that's their defense or should ur class not be able to build soo defensively to the point a glassy burst spec can't hope to burst u down even if they outplay u? Tough questions.

As I clearly stated, it is not a problem of the class, it is my personal inability to react quick enough to someone who knows how to play Thief well, because of the stealth and mobility.

 

If you are suggesting that sustain needs to be nerfed because a Thief whom I can't kill because they are invisible half the time and able to shadow step frequently is not able to kill me too, then you need to have a good look in the mirror mate.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

3 hours ago, Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said:

...Non-thieves cried to Anet and got them nerfed...

 

Just wondering. Do you believe ANet bases its balance decisions on forum QQ?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

15 minutes ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Just wondering. Do you believe ANet bases its balance decisions on forum QQ?

Have not around long, it may happen infrequently cuz balance passes from anet are just that but when enough players cry about a build or skill it definitely is usually the next thing anet "adjusts" which usually nukes the build. I mean u seriously don't think that qq's steer anets balance decisions lol they don't kno their game enough to rely on themselves unfortunately.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

6 hours ago, MrForz.1953 said:

He didn't say that Thief was a no-skill class but one that is generally perceived as the pinnacle of high level gameplay by some of its players to the point that one would almost mentally mast- stimulate oneself at the idea, a little bit like Engineer and Elementalist. And while it's not exactly true, mechanically at least, it's often brought up to look down upon others, and as an excuse to pass as victims at times.

 

That's about right, all of it.

Weird u think that that is about right lol considering the amount of threads of thief complaining about their class is dwarfed by thief hater whine threads, most accounts of thieves stating theirs classes issues are in a defensive response to some biased thief hate thread lol. Man this game attracts the best community.

[MrForz.1953]

29 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Weird u think that that is about right lol considering the amount of threads of thief complaining about their class is dwarfed by thief hater whine threads, most accounts of thieves stating theirs classes issues are in a defensive response to some biased thief hate thread lol. Man this game attracts the best community.

Thief haters and thief divas are just... normal I guess, it's just like the other classes.

 

Mesmers under all their forms are "unfun" to fight against.

Elementalists are invincible death dealing machines.

Guardians are Anet's chosen ones.

Necros are pea-brain caliber classes that perform way too well for the amount of effort required.

Rangers delete anyone at 1500 range without even paying attention.

Revs hit too hard with Sevenshot and condi Mallyx is obnoxious.

Engineers are one-shot machines overloaded with boons and mobility.

I can't come with with anything about Warrior though these days lol.

 

Many players of each class will tell you how their class is gutted or how they're the least played class in the game, are permanently in downstate or anything to pass as victims as if it grants some form of power in these parts somehow.

 

I get insulted on both my Thief and my Engineer, many times on the latter by the former due to stacking reveals if I ever had the time to switch before the encounter. Most are venting and therefore it ends with a swift block before I could answer, but some can be open to rematches and experiments for the sake of understanding.

 

Try to reason with your "haters". If they're unwilling to listen, ignore them. If you believe that for some reason they have more weight on Anet's final judgement ask yourself if being more hostile or condescending will change anything beyond being dangerously closer to them in behavior.

Edited October 18, 2021 by MrForz.1953

[Sansar.1302]

People hate thief not because they get killed, they hate thief because so many of them only engade when they have the upper hand ( as they 100% chose their fights due to stealth and mobilety)  and they flee when things go bad ( no denying thief is the escape artist of gw2 )

 

Thing is if you beat a thief he should die not flee

Edited October 18, 2021 by Sansar.1302

[ASP.8093]

4 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

People hate thief not because they get killed, they hate thief because so many of them only engade when they have the upper hand ( as they 100% chose their fights due to stealth and mobilety)  and they flee when things go bad ( no denying thief is the escape artist of gw2 )

 

Thing is if you beat a thief he should die not flee

Through the magic of Warclaw + Waypoints, almost anyone can choose close to 100% of their fights simply by running away before any engagement. I see PvE scrubs grinding Gift of Battle do it all the time, I'm sure veteran WvW players can figure out how to do this, too, if they wanted to.

What the "someone ran away from me!" discourse constantly misses is that thieves, and rangers, and engineers, and Shiro roaming revs, and greatsword warriors, and eles, and mesmers, and uhhh medi guards, and sometimes reapers how did that happen ok but it does… the way these people are getting away from you is by using cooldowns that they've saved for escaping.

If you don't want them to run away… focus on bursting them down from 50% hp to 0 instead of from 100% hp to 50%. Or make them actually fight for something. Like a downed ally. (Or one of your allies that they desperately want to stomp.) Or a camp or keep you're gonna take from them if they don't contest it. Start treating WvW as a place where you engage with the objectives in order to engage the enemy rather than just a weird little wasteland where you wander around looking for duels / embarrassing 5v1s.

 

P.S. Oh, but you can't burst them down from 50% hp to 0, you say? If you're running some kind of sustain-happy condi tank or flavor-of-the-month cele build, you are absolutely, 100% signing up for "people will run away from you all the time when they realize they can't wear you down faster than you'll kill them." You chose that life. You chose it. (Go try to accomplish something on the map. Or just bait them into overstaying. By trolling.)

Edited October 18, 2021 by ASP.8093
Added the "P.S."

[shrew.3059]

4 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Thing is if you beat a thief he should die not flee

 

Thing is, if you beat a Thief they will die. If they flee, you didn’t beat them.

[Raizel.1839]

It can't be helped, it's an obnoxious class to play against. Remove stealth at all (not rework, REMOVE) and hate will be gone too.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Thing is, people are blinded at their own builds. Was fighting a grp the other day and i got a whisper saying "sa d/p is so cringe" turns out the person who said that was plying super speed scrapper kiting whole throwing nades and motor over their heads. I mean, do you have any idea how cring that build is lol

Edited October 18, 2021 by Fat Disgrace.4275

[ASP.8093]

6 minutes ago, Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

Thing is, people are blinded at their own builds. Was fighting a grp the other day and i got a whisper saying "sa d/p is so cringe" turns out the person who said that was plying super speed scrapper kiting whole throwing nades and motor over their heads. I mean, do you have any idea how cring that build is lol

Yup. There's like 3 non-"cringe" builds in the entire game and they're all total B-tier sadsack stuff.

Edited October 18, 2021 by ASP.8093

[Axl.8924]

6 hours ago, MrForz.1953 said:

Thief haters and thief divas are just... normal I guess, it's just like the other classes.

 

Mesmers under all their forms are "unfun" to fight against.

Elementalists are invincible death dealing machines.

Guardians are Anet's chosen ones.

Necros are pea-brain caliber classes that perform way too well for the amount of effort required.

Rangers delete anyone at 1500 range without even paying attention.

Revs hit too hard with Sevenshot and condi Mallyx is obnoxious.

Engineers are one-shot machines overloaded with boons and mobility.

I can't come with with anything about Warrior though these days lol.

 

Many players of each class will tell you how their class is gutted or how they're the least played class in the game, are permanently in downstate or anything to pass as victims as if it grants some form of power in these parts somehow.

 

I get insulted on both my Thief and my Engineer, many times on the latter by the former due to stacking reveals if I ever had the time to switch before the encounter. Most are venting and therefore it ends with a swift block before I could answer, but some can be open to rematches and experiments for the sake of understanding.

 

Try to reason with your "haters". If they're unwilling to listen, ignore them. If you believe that for some reason they have more weight on Anet's final judgement ask yourself if being more hostile or condescending will change anything beyond being dangerously closer to them in behavior.

 

I think a lot of times these kinda things are overblown.

Yeah every class has its OP side but at the same time there is so much bias its unreal. People won't be happy until the class they died to has no chance of winning and is just free kill.

 

Thief won't work without the stealth and mobility probably due to lack of invulns and other stuff.

[anduriell.6280]

4 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

Thief won't work without the stealth and mobility probably due to lack of invulns and other stuff.

Well that is true, still stealth and mobility within the proffesion could be better designed for PvP and not to have PvE mechanics. Other games do it better and this is not 2012 anymore. 

[Axl.8924]

3 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Well that is true, still stealth and mobility within the proffesion could be better designed for PvP and not to have PvE mechanics. Other games do it better and this is not 2012 anymore. 

And thats fine if they wish to improve so long as they don't gut it.

 

The problem i have isn't that some want it improved, its that a lot of the folks i see don't care for improvement and just want the class they hate to be always at a disadvantage.

They care about winning not true balance a lot of these folks.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Axl.8924]

2 minutes ago, Skada.1362 said:

s/d builds still work really well, even kitten d/p builds work really well. However sadly 90% of thieves will not pick these options because they require a brain. People want easy mode therefor pick SA instead. If you play SA Daredevil in WVW you literally cannot die unless you disconnect or your cat walks on the keyboard. That's how insane it is. I wish s/d s/p and staff builds would get buffed.

 

The only thing i saw staff was in video recent was only in group play in WVW not solo roaming. Can't remebmer if there was acro too involved. It didn't seem to have the right amount of mobility and escapes for solo play prob and was better soloed to zergs. Damage was pretty good though but well its staff its  a good dps weapon even in pve.

When i pvped i did play D/P and S/D or whatever i tried a bunch of them i wasn't great though il admit that watching sindrenner helped.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Axl.8924

[anduriell.6280]

5 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

And thats fine if they wish to improve so long as they don't gut it.

 

The problem i have isn't that some want it improved, its that a lot of the folks i see don't care for improvement and just want the class they hate to be always at a disadvantage.

They care about winning not true balance a lot of these folks.

You are right again, and that is a very good point. But the same as there are absurd suggestions which would only ended up gutting the profession there are others which are very valid still aren't met with any understanding and are treated with extreme vitriol. 
So i would say as long as most thief mains do not accept their profession mechanics are broken and need balancing the general disgust for the class won't go away. 

 

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

2 hours ago, Raizel.1839 said:

It can't be helped, it's an obnoxious class to play against. Remove stealth at all (not rework, REMOVE) and hate will be gone too.

"It can't be helped, it's obnoxious to argue with guys like this. Remove them at all (no mute, BAN) and hate will be gone too."

More seriously, what do you expect your command to achieve in that tone? Be constructive make some suggestions for compensation than you have a contribution to the topic, but not in the way you did it

Edited October 18, 2021 by Felices Bladewing.3914

[Tails.9372]

15 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

i would say as long as most thief mains do not accept their profession mechanics are broken

The actual professional mechanics (initiative, triple dodge and malice) are fine and in some aspects even undertuned.

[anduriell.6280]

1 minute ago, Tails.9372 said:

The actual professional mechanics (initiative, triple dodge and malice) are fine and in some aspects even undertuned.

Sure for PvE they are.

[Tails.9372]

3 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Sure for PvE they are.

Even for PvP, weapon sets that are based around high pressure upkeep should not suffer from a constant lack of initiative.

[anduriell.6280]

Just now, Tails.9372 said:

Even for PvP, weapon sets that are based around high pressure upkeep should not suffer from a constant lack of initiative.

They aren't, stealth attacks don't require initiative. The rest are spammy enough with how it is with total lack of cooldowns. 

[Tails.9372]

2 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

They aren't, stealth attacks don't require initiative. The rest are spammy enough with how it is with total lack of cooldowns. 

Not every weapon set is based around "one shots from stealth" and skills like unload are way too overpriced for both the role they are supposed to serve and their actual performance.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Tails.9372