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Legendary gen. 3 account bound?


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22 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Not sure if serious.

 

If trading and making gold in this game was so important to you, there are other far more important issues one would need to tackle.

 

For example: the gray market outside of the game, where ironically a portion of the trading happens in relation to legendarys (both in terms of legendary items as well as materials).

 

If more trade of legendary gear were the goal, shutting down out of game trading would be a far more reasonable approach, instead of asking for even more high value items to get added, some of which would ultimately be traded out of game yet again.

I think he is being serious. I've noticed this in SWTOR as well. People just want to be as rich as possible. They maxed out all their toons to the max. amount they can carry and also in their shared storage and are now asking for other ways to store credits (the currency in that game). 

 

I suppose some people's fantasies revolve around being rich, very rich since in real life this isn't possible for them (this is not a sneer at them btw). So why should their fantasy world not count?

 

However, they're not as numerous as the OP might suggest compared to the rest of the player base and Anet has to consider the rest of the player base as well. So if they were tradeable it would be for different reasons in my view. The OP, however, just sees a business opportunity and would like to sell these gen3 legendaries. It's understandable. We all have our own fantasies we want to live out in a fantasy game.

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I sincerely hope they're account bound. All legendaries should be account bound.

It is a very unintelligible move by ANet to make Gen 2 legendary weapons account bound. They could have taken in a lot more revenues if Gen 2 weapons are saleable.   I hope they have statist

I see no downside to having tradable legendaries. Players who believe that legendaries should be earned are free to make legendaries on their own. It's none of their business if other players trade le

1 hour ago, Modliszka.5027 said:

You really claim that Eternity (or any other gen 1)  is devalued, because you can buy it?

Do you really claim that item A that can be bought straight off trading post has same prestige behind it as item B that cannot? 

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1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

For example: the gray market outside of the game, where ironically a portion of the trading happens in relation to legendarys (both in terms of legendary items as well as materials).

 

If you consider trading not via TP as "ouside of the game" and "grey market" you really need to change approach. Trading via communities is a part of this game economy. 

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8 minutes ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Do you really claim that item A that can be bought straight off trading post has same prestige behind it as item B that cannot? 

Do you really claim that people who bought Eternity from TP feel less prestigeous than people who made Exordium?

(Eternity is 6,5 k at TP atm, crafting cost of Exordium is around 2,6 k)

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2 minutes ago, Modliszka.5027 said:

If you consider trading not via TP as "ouside of the game" and "grey market" you really need to change approach. Trading via communities is a part of this game economy. 

Frankly, when items are so rare, they become so expensive they only get traded out of game it is an issue imo. No item should be that rare, sorry.

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13 minutes ago, Modliszka.5027 said:

If you consider trading not via TP as "ouside of the game" and "grey market" you really need to change approach. Trading via communities is a part of this game economy. 

 

Ah, so all you want is more items which can be traded via communities potentially circumventing the TP tax most players face. Fair enough, you never specified which type of trading you wanted to see increased.

 

True, trading in gray spaces is part of this games economy and it is tolerated by the developers currently. If it were encouraged, we would have better in game support for such a feature allowing circumventing the TP tax in the actual game and better player protection from scams.

 

There is a difference between something being tolerated via it being encouraged/intended. Let's keep that in mind and stay honest here shall we?

Edited by Cyninja.2954
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9 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Ah, so all you want is more items which can be traded via communities potentially circumventing the TP tax most players face. Fair enough, you never specified which type of trading you wanted to see increased.

 

True, trading in gray spaces is part of this games economy and it is tolerated by the developers currently. If it were encouraged, we would have better in game support for such a feature allowing circumventing the TP tax in the actual game and better player protection from scams.

 

There is a difference between something being tolerated via it being encouraged/intended. Let's keep that in mind and stay honest here shall we?

Dude, welcome to reality. In real life you can buy goods/shares on Stock Exchange and you pay fees. But if you deal directly with seller you don't pay brokage house. There are pros and cons. Direct buy is cheaper but risk is all yours. Whereas stock Exchange gives you safety and anonymity. I wouldn't call direct trading "grey".

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to be frank, after seeing a post wanting Mastery Points to be purchasable, i rather Gen 3 be account bound, what gonna stop people from making thread request X be purchasable when a content meant to be time/g sink can be skipped?
The "i dont have the time" or "it support anet so win-win" really don't look far into the future.

It's a stretch i know but something im very concerned

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5 minutes ago, Modliszka.5027 said:

Dude, welcome to reality. In real life you can buy goods/shares on Stock Exchange and you pay fees. But if you deal directly with seller you don't pay brokage house. There are pros and cons. Direct buy is cheaper but risk is all yours. Whereas stock Exchange gives you safety and anonymity. I wouldn't call direct trading "grey".

 

The stock exchange is regulated. Similar to the TP.

 

What you would be refering to is less or untegulated markets next to stock exchange which are not illegal, like the crypto market was originally. The primary intent being circumventing taxation (which still happens even if you purchase a good directly even if cheaper).

 

Welcome to reality.

Edited by Cyninja.2954
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It'd be nice to see legendary precursor collections for (and be able to buy/sell) all three generations of legendary weapons. Even the ones currently available to buy are a bit too expensive for me, but I can appreciate that some people might prefer to invest gold over time to get them - doesn't change my legendary journey at all.

 

ArenaNet seems interested in nudging people toward more challenging content, so increasing the availability of legendary stuff by letting people craft and sell it seems like a good step in that direction, seeing as legendary gear lets players toy around with builds and stats more easily. If someone can make gold crafting and flipping legendaries, more power to them.

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14 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

The stock exchange is regulated. Similar to the TP.

 

What you would be refering to is less or untegulated markets next to stock exchange which are not illegal, like the crypto market was originally. The primary intent being circumventing taxation (which still happens even if you purchase a good directly even if cheaper).

 

Welcome to reality.

That was not what I meant - how to explain it the simplest way?

You have 51% shares of company X and want to sell it - you can do it via Stock Exchange, but also directly to company Y, which is interested in buying? How do you think M&A are done? Via Stock ??

[Edit:] That's offtopic - I end this discussion form my side here

Edited by Modliszka.5027
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7 minutes ago, Modliszka.5027 said:

That was not what I meant - how to explain it the simplest way?

You have 51% shares of company X and want to sell it - you can do it via Stock Exchange, but also directly to company Y, which is interested in buying? How do you think M&A are done? Via Stock ??

[Edit:] That's offtopic - I end this discussion form my side here

In either case you pay taxes.

 

Gray markets outside the TP draw their main benefit and profit from circumventing the TP tax and the limitation of the 500g send limit.

 

Without even getting into the other regulatory requirements which happen in either such transaction (like mandatory notifications of substantial purchases of stackes or merger approvals). Which again are all regulated no matter if you got through the stock exhange or not.

 

Again, the closest you would get to this is not (yet) regulated markets which eventually all get regulated (usually due to slow legislation). The main difference here that the out of game gray market in GW2 has not see this happen yet.

Edited by Cyninja.2954
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5 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

For someone constantly telling others that their arguments are not valid, how does one get this so wrong?

 

A gear threadmill is called that way because the itemization and gear system in a game is designed to keep increasing (or devaluing existing gear, most often both), thus facilitating a threadmill like situation where players are constantly threading in 1 place. That's LITERALLY what the term means.

 

It is absolutely unrelated to the extent of gear progression but rather on how often this progression, and thus the effort a player has to put into it, has to be repeated. You could have a 1,000 hour gear progression with dozens of substeps, and it still would not be a threadmill if it never changed past the initial conception.

 

As mentioned by Zalavaaris.5329 GW2 gearing system is more akin to a ladder which you climb once (and not that high a ladder at that compared to other MMORPGs).

 

Now one could make the argument that the developers have been creative in circumventing certain aspects to this ladder, like adding new stat combinations or making legendary gear far more convenient than ascended, which would be a legitimate complaint. On the flip side, the developers have also added more and more ways to easily acquire gear and gold over the years, which more than makes up for these changes.

 

I said a LIMITED treadmill. Holy hell. And regardless, this is just semantics. Whatever you wanna call it, the system doesn't belong in a Guild Wars game and should never have been in GW2, but now it's way too late to change it.

Edited by Arnox.5128
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1 hour ago, Modliszka.5027 said:

Do you really claim that people who bought Eternity from TP feel less prestigeous than people who made Exordium?

(Eternity is 6,5 k at TP atm, crafting cost of Exordium is around 2,6 k)

Crafting Exordium takes more effort so yes. How many times do I have to repeat myself? 

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16 minutes ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Crafting Exordium takes more effort so yes. How many times do I have to repeat myself? 

You know how people feel - that's disturbing 🤔

But there are two gaps in your reasoning.

1. you claim that effort = prestige.

2. you deny that gathering 6.5 k gold is effort.

I understand your point that some acheivements shouldn't be bought - but hey that's why you have AP and titles. 

PS. Exordium like most gen 2. weapons is crafted using curios - which are mainly bought (directly or ingredients)  - someone already asked what is prestigious in buying 16 k mithril ingots and 11 k planks? 

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45 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

I said a LIMITED treadmill. Holy hell. And regardless, this is just semantics. Whatever you wanna call it, the system doesn't belong in a Guild Wars game and should never have been in GW2, but now it's way too late to change it.

Well, with certain terms it is kinda important to use them properly. Most MMOs have a gear treadmill. And a limited treadmill as you mean it, isn't a treadmill at all. A gear treadmill means that every expansion or more often new tiers of gear are released that invalidate the previous tiers and this is about stats only.

 

Neither of which is the case. Ascended gear hasn't invalidated exotic gear and ascended gear was a one-time event that has just slightly better stats. So referring to it as a "limited treadmill" is not correct in any sense of the word and will get you replies of that kind. So I would avoid the term "treadmill" altogether is what I'm saying. It's more of a step upwards for one time only and has no relation to a treadmill at all.

 

And well as for it not belonging in a GW game is rather a matter of personal opinion. A lot of things happen in GW2 that don't belong in a GW game as far as I'm concerned, but they happened anyway. In fact GW2 has very little in common with GW1. Just the lore, names of places, names of some classes and that's about it. So really, the point is that a lot of things aren't comparable to GW1 and "should never have been in GW2", but that's all water under the bridge. GW2 is just a very different game that could've been called Dragon Wars.

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33 minutes ago, Modliszka.5027 said:

You know how people feel - that's disturbing 🤔

But there are two gaps in your reasoning.

1. you claim that effort = prestige.

2. you deny that gathering 6.5 k gold is effort.

I understand your point that some acheivements shouldn't be bought - but hey that's why you have AP and titles. 

PS. Exordium like most gen 2. weapons is crafted using curios - which are mainly bought (directly or ingredients)  - someone already asked what is prestigious in buying 16 k mithril ingots and 11 k planks? 

Yes, let's not mention that you need gift of maguuma / desert mastery to finish exordium and pretend to have good faith arguments 🙂

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1 hour ago, Modliszka.5027 said:

1. you claim that effort = prestige.

2. you deny that gathering 6.5 k gold is effort.

Effort does equal prestige, but prestige doesn't always equal effort, There are different types of prestiges in other words. The legendary is a symbol of the effort required to get it. When people see it, they go wow, they went through that massive effort.

 

But if it all can be bought, then it might be a sign of effort but it also may not be. And this is the key to this topic. Anything that can be bought with real life money, devalues the prestige that comes from effort. There still is prestige but that prestige comes from wealth and that prestige is generally met with derision. Eternity is 6.5K because you have to make 2 other legendaries (twilight and sunrise) and you have to sacrifice both of them to get Eternity.

 

So the effort involved is not automatic because you can buy both twilight and sunrise. You CAN go through the effort but you don't have to and this is why the legendary items of gen1 can be a sign of effort or a sign of buying it. That means they are ambiguous. Gen2 is a sign that you went through some major effort just the same, regardless of whether you bought the mats or not. That's a lot less ambiguous and because they require a lot more mats, you'd have to buy a lot of gold with gems or farm quite long time for them.

 

And that effort, regardless of what you do with the mats, is an investment in time and effort and that gives more meaning to it than just buying it outright. The same goes for the skyscale for example. You really have to put in the effort and the mount's abilities are worth the effort but it also has more meaning since you've essentially raised it from birth.

 

If you don't see that, then ok. Opinions can differ but that's the way it works for a lot of people, so just understand that this can be the point of view of others and that it does makes sense from their point of view.

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1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Effort does equal prestige, but prestige doesn't always equal effort, There are different types of prestiges in other words. The legendary is a symbol of the effort required to get it. When people see it, they go wow, they went through that massive effort.

 

But if it all can be bought, then it might be a sign of effort but it also may not be. And this is the key to this topic. Anything that can be bought with real life money, devalues the prestige that comes from effort. There still is prestige but that prestige comes from wealth and that prestige is generally met with derision. Eternity is 6.5K because you have to make 2 other legendaries (twilight and sunrise) and you have to sacrifice both of them to get Eternity.

 

So the effort involved is not automatic because you can buy both twilight and sunrise. You CAN go through the effort but you don't have to and this is why the legendary items of gen1 can be a sign of effort or a sign of buying it. That means they are ambiguous. Gen2 is a sign that you went through some major effort just the same, regardless of whether you bought the mats or not. That's a lot less ambiguous and because they require a lot more mats, you'd have to buy a lot of gold with gems or farm quite long time for them.

 

And that effort, regardless of what you do with the mats, is an investment in time and effort and that gives more meaning to it than just buying it outright. The same goes for the skyscale for example. You really have to put in the effort and the mount's abilities are worth the effort but it also has more meaning since you've essentially raised it from birth.

 

If you don't see that, then ok. Opinions can differ but that's the way it works for a lot of people, so just understand that this can be the point of view of others and that it does makes sense from their point of view.

Well said, gen2 legendaries indeed shows you actually played the game.

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I could never understand the fuss people make on this game regarding gear. It is so easy to gear up it's painful. 

I have never played a game where getting the 'best' gear is  ridiculed or even trolled.  One of the reasons i feel to play an MMO is to make your character better and stronger.

I went from not caring about legendaries, staying with my exotics, but when pharus came out i wanted to say i had made one. 33 items later i still have ones i want and one of those included a gen3 even although i find them quite disappointing. I made them for QoL over prestige, because frankly due to ANet one model fits all there is none. In fact there is no reason to even make them, even with the armoury. 

people have been promised no level progression which i think one of the game minor downfalls. They could rise the cap to lvl85 and those legendaries would rise in level with you meaning everything else would need to be re-crafted. Thus giving you a reason to have them. But whatever it would be nice to have a real reason rather than a gold sink. 

But at the moment as it stands they mean nothing.

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7 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I think he is being serious. I've noticed this in SWTOR as well. People just want to be as rich as possible. They maxed out all their toons to the max. amount they can carry and also in their shared storage and are now asking for other ways to store credits (the currency in that game). 

 

I blame the NPC in Divinity's Reach that says, over and over, "I'm rich, you know!"  After hearing that, some people say, "Hold my beer!"

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On 9/5/2021 at 12:27 AM, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Yes they are! But not more powerful. Thats the discussion. 

Agreed, legendary items are better because of the convenience (and it's still not true in every situation), but they are NOT more powerful. They're misusing that word, possibly following marketing jargon to some degree. Legendary items don't give more power over ascended, they're not more powerful.

7 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

Frankly, when items are so rare, they become so expensive they only get traded out of game it is an issue imo. No item should be that rare, sorry.

More like: there shouldn't be a cap on tp that doesn't allow for those items to be legitimately sold through the regular ingame market without straight up losing half of the value on a single sale.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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On 9/6/2021 at 11:32 PM, Smoosh.2718 said:

Those parts yes have to be earnt but the Raw mat spam ie the T6 x 250 can all be bought.

In some ways I respect someone more for having a Gen 2 legendary over a Gen 1, and even more so when its one of the first Gen 2's! HOPE, Astralaria and Nevermore as these had a very long collection you had to do first.

I do hope that Anet has made the Gen3 set all account bound on aquire and not tradable else their value becomes minimal.

I've never really understood this type of sentiment.  How much I respect someone has to do with the quality of their character, rather than how much they can farm a game.  And really what does it matter if you respect them or don't resepect them at all. I never decided to make a legendary because someone might or might not respect me.

 

I have all but 3 legendary weapons. All core weapons. All HoT weapons except the dagger (which I've started), the torch and the mace. I have all the "hard to get" ones.  But so what?

 

I'd respect a guy who goes out and supports his family and is there for their kids and gets a generation 1 weapon as much as a 14 year old with no real responsiblities who games the system and gets a gen 2 legendary.  There's a woman in her mid 70s in my guild who has 11 legendary weapons and I respect the hell out of her. Good for her.  But you know, who the hell cares if you or anyone else respects them because they have X legendary over Y legendary.

 

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2 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I've never really understood this type of sentiment.  How much I respect someone has to do with the quality of their character, rather than how much they can farm a game.  And really what does it matter if you respect them or don't resepect them at all. I never decided to make a legendary because someone might or might not respect me.

 

I have all but 3 legendary weapons. All core weapons. All HoT weapons except the dagger (which I've started), the torch and the mace. I have all the "hard to get" ones.  But so what?

 

I'd respect a guy who goes out and supports his family and is there for their kids and gets a generation 1 weapon as much as a 14 year old with no real responsiblities who games the system and gets a gen 2 legendary.  There's a woman in her mid 70s in my guild who has 11 legendary weapons and I respect the hell out of her. Good for her.  But you know, who the hell cares if you or anyone else respects them because they have X legendary over Y legendary.

Notice how you "don't care who thinks what", but you pretty consistently keep bringing up on the forum what you have in the game, pretty sure all/most of those posts were unprompted. So you DO repeat that to prove something, while at the same time claim it proves nothing.

One way or another, you don't have to agree with his reasoning, but it's still how he sees those "account bound" rewards. One is playing through the content, the other is possibly throwing credit card at the screen. I don't really see anything wrong/unreasonable about his take.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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